Gaining muscle in a deficit?
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I'm developing new gains, very slight but still there whilst on a deficit. How long should I go until I need to lean bulk? Female, lifting 4 days a week, 117pounds, 5 foot 30
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How do they define Untrained and Trained?
Untrained = someone who has not lifted b4?
Trained = Someone who lifts regularly?
I've been lifting for a year am I untrained or trained?
I'd also like to know if I'm considered trained or untrained. Been following 5/3/1 for a year after doing 6 months of 5x5. I think I underestimate how strong I am (doesn't help being the only older female watching the very experienced lifters lifting 2x what I can manage) but 3 out of 4 of my big lift 1rpm are in the intermediate level according to strength levels with my bench being a couple of kg below intermediate (and if I keep the same 1rpm when I restart losing weight in the next year I'll be tipped in to intermediate before I get down to where I want to be).
That would be intermediate at this point, past the 1 solid year beginner.
This analysis defines people as a beginner until they have 2 years lifting experience, at that point they are intermediate.0 -
Silkysausage wrote: »I'm developing new gains, very slight but still there whilst on a deficit. How long should I go until I need to lean bulk? Female, lifting 4 days a week, 117pounds, 5 foot 3
If you like the way you look, then you don't need to lean bulk. If you get to a point where you want more muscle, Lyle MacDonald recommends 19-24% body fat for women before bulking. You could also just eat at maintenance or slightly above and slowly recomp.3 -
How do they define Untrained and Trained?
Untrained = someone who has not lifted b4?
Trained = Someone who lifts regularly?
I've been lifting for a year am I untrained or trained?
I'd also like to know if I'm considered trained or untrained. Been following 5/3/1 for a year after doing 6 months of 5x5. I think I underestimate how strong I am (doesn't help being the only older female watching the very experienced lifters lifting 2x what I can manage) but 3 out of 4 of my big lift 1rpm are in the intermediate level according to strength levels with my bench being a couple of kg below intermediate (and if I keep the same 1rpm when I restart losing weight in the next year I'll be tipped in to intermediate before I get down to where I want to be).
That would be intermediate at this point, past the 1 solid year beginner.
This analysis defines people as a beginner until they have 2 years lifting experience, at that point they are intermediate.
Crap - forgot to scroll up and see I already knew that for this thread topic.2 -
@SilkysausageSilkysausage wrote: »I'm developing new gains, very slight but still there whilst on a deficit. How long should I go until I need to lean bulk? Female, lifting 4 days a week, 117pounds, 5 foot 3
Maybe never.
Why do you think you will want to bulk? Do you have particularly advanced body composition or strength goals?
You might like this perspective...
https://bretcontreras.com/to-bulk-and-cut-or-not/
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I’ve had an interesting few months. I’ve followed a decent diet; decent food and plenty of calories. I’ve followed a strength training routine and for around about the last month chucked some running into the mix. Over the last 6 months my weight hasn’t moved much at all but my god the inches have fallen. I’m 5 foot and 162 pounds so definately plenty to loose but I’m guessing I must have gained a little muscle while losing some fat.4
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@SilkysausageSilkysausage wrote: »I'm developing new gains, very slight but still there whilst on a deficit. How long should I go until I need to lean bulk? Female, lifting 4 days a week, 117pounds, 5 foot 3
Maybe never.
Why do you think you will want to bulk? Do you have particularly advanced body composition or strength goals?
You might like this perspective...
https://bretcontreras.com/to-bulk-and-cut-or-not/
Amazing article, thank you. I suppose I have read far too much in a bid to do my best but got carried away with it all.
I thought that bulking and cutting was what everyone did who were lifting, not giving it a second thought as to why.
I'm going to eat well, keep lifting and progressing and enjoy the rewards!6 -
Silkysausage wrote: »
@SilkysausageSilkysausage wrote: »I'm developing new gains, very slight but still there whilst on a deficit. How long should I go until I need to lean bulk? Female, lifting 4 days a week, 117pounds, 5 foot 3
Maybe never.
Why do you think you will want to bulk? Do you have particularly advanced body composition or strength goals?
You might like this perspective...
https://bretcontreras.com/to-bulk-and-cut-or-not/
Amazing article, thank you. I suppose I have read far too much in a bid to do my best but got carried away with it all.
I thought that bulking and cutting was what everyone did who were lifting, not giving it a second thought as to why.
I'm going to eat well, keep lifting and progressing and enjoy the rewards!
Sounds like a great plan. I am in slight deficit and am getting some slight gains as I slowly lose body fat. My body shape is coming along fine and I don't think I'll ever bulk because I'm fairly happy with how I'm looking. Once I drop another 12 to 15 lbs, I'll assess whether I like the way I look or will cut a little more.
Adequate protein to minimize muscle loss is the key. (along with training of course)3 -
My 18 month weight loss and maintenance effort has come to an close and I thought I'd post the results here and in the "Ready to Recomp" thread in that I started over a year ago in the "Maintaining Weight" SubForum.
My starting weight in May 2016 was 196# w/an estimated 25% BF (no baseline measurement); 147# LBM & 49# BF.
My weight in Nov 2016 at the start of the maintenance period was 160# w/BF at 16% as measured by hydro; 134# LBM & 26# BF.
My weight is at the end of Nov 2017 was 158#, where it has been +/-3# over the past 12 months w/BF at 10% as measured by hydro; 142# LBM & 16# BF.
I ate at a deficit for the 1st 6 months and at maintenance for the following 12 months. During the entire 18 month period, I also lifted heavy and exercised regularly. My strength increased substantially and my lifts (as compared w/other men my age & wt) are rated at the advanced (95%) and elite (99%) levels based on the Strength Level database.
During the initial 6 month weight loss & deficit diet period, my LBM decreased by 13# (9%) and my BF decreased by 23# (47%) resulting in the 36# (18%) weight loss overall from 196# to 160#.
During the 12 month maintenance period, I was able to increase my LBM by 8# (6%) while also reducing my BF by another 10# (38%) for a net loss in weight of 2# (1%) from 160# to 158#.
What this data says is that I was NOT able to increase LBM while on a deficit diet BUT that I was able to increase LBM while continuing to lose BF in the process (aka recomp) to a modest degree while eating at maintenance. So, at least for me, it was not possible to "gain muscle in a deficit" but was possible while in maintenance.
I am quite happy w/what I consider the final result at 158# & 10% BF and consider my efforts over the past 18 months to have been a resounding success.
All I have to do now is just continue to maintain it.
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Thanks for sharing the data. And congrats! I agree that is a resounding success!1
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My 18 month weight loss and maintenance effort has come to an close and I thought I'd post the results here and in the "Ready to Recomp" thread in that I started over a year ago in the "Maintaining Weight" SubForum.
My starting weight in May 2016 was 196# w/an estimated 25% BF (no baseline measurement); 147# LBM & 49# BF.
My weight in Nov 2016 at the start of the maintenance period was 160# w/BF at 16% as measured by hydro; 134# LBM & 26# BF.
My weight is at the end of Nov 2017 was 158#, where it has been +/-3# over the past 12 months w/BF at 10% as measured by hydro; 142# LBM & 16# BF.
I ate at a deficit for the 1st 6 months and at maintenance for the following 12 months. During the entire 18 month period, I also lifted heavy and exercised regularly. My strength increased substantially and my lifts (as compared w/other men my age & wt) are rated at the advanced (95%) and elite (99%) levels based on the Strength Level database.
During the initial 6 month weight loss & deficit diet period, my LBM decreased by 13# (9%) and my BF decreased by 23# (47%) resulting in the 36# (18%) weight loss overall from 196# to 160#.
During the 12 month maintenance period, I was able to increase my LBM by 8# (6%) while also reducing my BF by another 10# (38%) for a net loss in weight of 2# (1%) from 160# to 158#.
What this data says is that I was NOT able to increase LBM while on a deficit diet BUT that I was able to increase LBM while continuing to lose BF in the process (aka recomp) to a modest degree while eating at maintenance. So, at least for me, it was not possible to "gain muscle in a deficit" but was possible while in maintenance.
I am quite happy w/what I consider the final result at 158# & 10% BF and consider my efforts over the past 18 months to have been a resounding success.
All I have to do now is just continue to maintain it.
WOW! Awesome job! If I might ask, what are your lifting numbers (Bench, Dead, Squat, OHP, Row)? It sounds like you really nailed this.....awesome job (again)!1 -
LiftHeavyThings27105 wrote: »WOW! Awesome job! If I might ask, what are your lifting numbers (Bench, Dead, Squat, OHP, Row)? It sounds like you really nailed this.....awesome job (again)!
Thanks but to avoid hijacking this thread, I'll post an answer to your questions in my "Ready to Recomp" thread here: http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10462715/ready-to-recomp#latest
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LiftHeavyThings27105 wrote: »WOW! Awesome job! If I might ask, what are your lifting numbers (Bench, Dead, Squat, OHP, Row)? It sounds like you really nailed this.....awesome job (again)!
Thanks but to avoid hijacking this thread, I'll post an answer to your questions in my "Ready to Recomp" thread here: http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10462715/ready-to-recomp#latest
Great idea. Was not my intention to hijack this thread with that question.....taking a spin to the other thread.0 -
Going to bump this because apparently, this is what everyone wants.6
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Ok, please be patient with me because this might be dumb. I'm 5'8" and currently around 185. I want to lose body fat and lose about 35ish pounds. I've been doing to weight machine express circuit at the gym for about a year, so I think that means I'm still a beginner, although I put push myself with as heavy as I can go. I've been netting about 1400-1500 calories a day, meaning I should be losing about a pound a week. Does this mean that I'm doing a Slow Cut? Does that mean I should be gaining muscle and losing fat? I'm definitely gaining muscle...not sure about the fat part.0
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Bluesmoothie71 wrote: »Ok, please be patient with me because this might be dumb. I'm 5'8" and currently around 185. I want to lose body fat and lose about 35ish pounds. I've been doing to weight machine express circuit at the gym for about a year, so I think that means I'm still a beginner, although I put push myself with as heavy as I can go. I've been netting about 1400-1500 calories a day, meaning I should be losing about a pound a week. Does this mean that I'm doing a Slow Cut? Does that mean I should be gaining muscle and losing fat? I'm definitely gaining muscle...not sure about the fat part.
So your muscles are likely already tapped out if you were indeed pushing them close to the start of that year.
Body feels no need to build more until existing is pushed to the limit. Especially not in a deficit.
The ability to do that while in a deficit is not only iffy, to perhaps very slowly if starting out - which you aren't.
You can also keep gaining strength for a decent time from existing muscles, besides form improvements allowing weight lifted to increase.
Fat falling away showing more muscle can also appear to be more muscle, though it's not.
Slow cut and potential for new muscle while losing fat depends on how much fat you have (or weight) until a healthy amount.
Closer to where body is happy with it - the harder that is to accomplish.
Plenty to lose - easier to accomplish.
Hence the idea when close to happy - just recomp and make it not as slow.
Measurements will show if fat is being lost. If down close to healthy weight, most lose last in belly, so that may be it for you to really see.1 -
Bluesmoothie71 wrote: »Ok, please be patient with me because this might be dumb. I'm 5'8" and currently around 185. I want to lose body fat and lose about 35ish pounds. I've been doing to weight machine express circuit at the gym for about a year, so I think that means I'm still a beginner, although I put push myself with as heavy as I can go. I've been netting about 1400-1500 calories a day, meaning I should be losing about a pound a week. Does this mean that I'm doing a Slow Cut? Does that mean I should be gaining muscle and losing fat? I'm definitely gaining muscle...not sure about the fat part.
Too many issues raised and unaddressed to given a meaningful answer to this question but here are a few observations:
1) You say you are currently 5'8" and 185# and are eating only 1400-1500 cals/day net. If so, this would NOT be a slow cut, it would be a very aggressive deficit. FWIW, I am 5'8" and was 192# at the start of my weight loss effort and I was eating 1500-1600 cal/day for the 1st 5 months and lost 40# (about 2#/week, which is a very aggressive rate of loss) at that rate.
If you are not losing the same amount of weight doing about the same, you probably are NOT counting your CICO correctly.
2) You say you have been doing an "express circuit" for exercise for about a year but you do not say exactly what lifts you are doing and how much weight you are lifting. Nonetheless, you are wondering if you should be gaining muscle and losing fat.
Without knowing exactly what you are doing, if you are actually eating at a deficit (which is sounds like you are NOT doing), you should lose weight (including fat) AND, if you are lifting/exercising sufficiently, you should be able to maintain "some" (but are unlikely to gain much, if any) lean body mass in the process.
That's about all that can be said based on the info provided.
FYI, I am currently 156# @10% BF (down from 192# @ 20+% BF) which is the result of over 18 months of diet control and hard work. After the initial weight loss in the 1st 6 months, I maintained at 158# (+/- 3#) on about 1800 cals/day for the next 12 months but have recently dropped in the past 2 months to 156# as a result of increased exercise (primarily due to now rowing 10k meters/day). My current daily cal limit is only 1650 cals/net due to my lower weight but I may need to increase my cals back to 1800 if my weight continues to drop.
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Bumping this because that table at the beginning is awesome.3
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