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American-seniors-are-sicker-than-global-peers story.
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I think income inequality is a stronger indicator than raw income. If everyone is generally in the same boat, hope stays alive for everyone.
I don't think the health issue is about inequality or lack of hope. I think it's about diet and opportunity for exercise (crime ridden neighborhoods, for example) and health care, among other things.
There's no real reason why inequality should mean "lack of hope," and some of the worst places in the US health-wise are places that are pretty uniformly poor -- communities with "lack of hope" because no one around you lives differently, not because some people on the other side of town have good jobs. In fact, I think a huge problem with some of the poorer neighborhoods around here is that despite living in close proximity to people with very different lifestyles people don't interact across those lines much -- less separation would probably be helpful.0 -
In my 50's I was doing "weight creep" even though I was always swimming and very active. Starting menopause I was just resigned to "old age" and "slowing down". My mother gave me a book to read"Younger Next Year", and it really set me on my ear. I realized that as I got older, I had to do more and move more--not less-- as I was starting to do. Then I discovered MFP. The combination has made an amazing change. For 62 with OA, I'm fitter than ever. You can't turn the clock back, but you don't have to sit there listening to it ticking either.7
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snowflake954 wrote: »
Yes, I've seen what's going on in Italy these days in the news. I would love to comment on that in detail but it would surely result in my permanent MFP exile, so I'll refrain.
I will just say that living it is alot different than the news. You should see what they choose to show about the USA on the news here.2 -
snowflake954 wrote: »snowflake954 wrote: »
Yes, I've seen what's going on in Italy these days in the news. I would love to comment on that in detail but it would surely result in my permanent MFP exile, so I'll refrain.
I will just say that living it is alot different than the news. You should see what they choose to show about the USA on the news here.
Close ups of fat bums in spandex and people eating large mouthfuls of Big Macs using their sleeve as a napkin while strolling the Mall of America?
Well, actually they love to show, or interview people with no heath care. Then they like to show anything where people have gotten shot because, you know--too many guns.3 -
snowflake954 wrote: »snowflake954 wrote: »snowflake954 wrote: »
Yes, I've seen what's going on in Italy these days in the news. I would love to comment on that in detail but it would surely result in my permanent MFP exile, so I'll refrain.
I will just say that living it is alot different than the news. You should see what they choose to show about the USA on the news here.
Close ups of fat bums in spandex and people eating large mouthfuls of Big Macs using their sleeve as a napkin while strolling the Mall of America?
Well, actually they love to show, or interview people with no heath care. Then they like to show anything where people have gotten shot because, you know--too many guns.
Wow. Maybe we should move there then. Will they take us in?
Just go to Libia and put yourself on a boat going north and you're good to go. Thousands are arriving on Italy's shores every year. The NGO's are having a field day.1 -
snowflake954 wrote: »snowflake954 wrote: »snowflake954 wrote: »
Yes, I've seen what's going on in Italy these days in the news. I would love to comment on that in detail but it would surely result in my permanent MFP exile, so I'll refrain.
I will just say that living it is alot different than the news. You should see what they choose to show about the USA on the news here.
Close ups of fat bums in spandex and people eating large mouthfuls of Big Macs using their sleeve as a napkin while strolling the Mall of America?
Well, actually they love to show, or interview people with no heath care. Then they like to show anything where people have gotten shot because, you know--too many guns.
Yep, the Gun thing is pretty much what we see in the news here in Aus almost daily too
Oh, and Trumps latest and greatest Trumpisms.... 2 -
Packerjohn wrote: »Alatariel75 wrote: »I'd be interested to know the impact on healthcare systems on these stats...
The driver is the stats @lemurcat12 pointed out, lack of movement, poor dietary habits, fat. These things have been festering in the population for years. Often it's not until older age when the full impact is known.
Can't expect some pill or procedure to come riding to rescue us from years of crappy behavior but personal responsibility is a dirty phrase.
Actually, you can expect some pill or procedure to come riding to rescue us from years of crappy behavior. PCI, stents, CABG, meds to make you pee out some of that sugar, meds to make you leak fat out your *kitten*, meds for this and meds for that.
I have so many obese elderly relatives popping their multiple pills each day, getting their arteries opened or replaced, staying alive thanks to modern medicine rather than habits.
I think the medicines and procedures available in the US may be the biggest reason for the statistics. Better medicine means longer life, but it doesn't take that diagnosis off your chart.3 -
It’s the Lifestyle- poor diet and lack of exercise. No healthcare system can fix that.3
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Yes I know this is a zombie thread and I am not American - but I disagree that all health outcomes for seniors are as simple as poor diet and lack of exercise
Sure, these lifestyle choices account for staying healthy to some degree, along with the other big choices - not smoking and not drinking to excess.
But so do early intervention on other things - and these require access to healthcare - Pap smears, vaccination, occult blood bowel screening etc.
and many cancers and other conditions which are treatable - if you have access to good health care.
And many people do get diseases regardless of healthy lifestyle - lifestyle is a factor but not the whole story.
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paperpudding wrote: »Yes I know this is a zombie thread and I am not American - but I disagree that all health outcomes for seniors are as simple as poor diet and lack of exercise
Sure, these lifestyle choices account for staying healthy to some degree, along with the other big choices - not smoking and not drinking to excess.
But so do early intervention on other things - and these require access to healthcare - Pap smears, vaccination, occult blood bowel screening etc.
and many cancers and other conditions which are treatable - if you have access to good health care.
And many people do get diseases regardless of healthy lifestyle - lifestyle is a factor but not the whole story.
The thing is, pre ACA (Obamacare) 85 percent of Americans already had access to health care. They had insurance that covered doctor visits, and so on.
So 6 out of 7 Americans already had access. So it begs the question, are we really so bad off because of lack of access or simply lack of giving a *kitten*?
While I've not spent more than 3 weeks in Italy, the food was far healthier than what we have here in the US.
I couldn't stand US pizza for about a year after returning from a three week anniversary trip back in 2012.
Food for thought.3 -
tbright1965 wrote: »paperpudding wrote: »Yes I know this is a zombie thread and I am not American - but I disagree that all health outcomes for seniors are as simple as poor diet and lack of exercise
Sure, these lifestyle choices account for staying healthy to some degree, along with the other big choices - not smoking and not drinking to excess.
But so do early intervention on other things - and these require access to healthcare - Pap smears, vaccination, occult blood bowel screening etc.
and many cancers and other conditions which are treatable - if you have access to good health care.
And many people do get diseases regardless of healthy lifestyle - lifestyle is a factor but not the whole story.
The thing is, pre ACA (Obamacare) 85 percent of Americans already had access to health care. They had insurance that covered doctor visits, and so on.
So 6 out of 7 Americans already had access. So it begs the question, are we really so bad off because of lack of access or simply lack of giving a *kitten*?
While I've not spent more than 3 weeks in Italy, the food was far healthier than what we have here in the US.
I couldn't stand US pizza for about a year after returning from a three week anniversary trip back in 2012.
Food for thought.
Kind of playing devil's advocate, but technically having access to health care and being able to afford utilizing that access are two different things. Lots of Americans who have insurance wait until a health concern becomes insurmountable before going to a doctor, because even with insurance they can't afford to go.
I passed out a few months ago at my nephews baseball game. Turns out it was dehydration and heat exhaustion. But someone called 911 and the paramedics wanted to take me to the ER. I turned down the ambulance ride due to cost, but my dad insisted on driving me to the ER. They checked me in, did an EKG, and told me I was fine. After my insurance paid what it would, I ended up with @ $800 in bills. Probably would have been closer to $1500 if I'd gotten in the ambulance. If I had been home by myself, honestly, I wouldn't have gone to the ER at all for exactly that reason, scared of how much it would cost.
In the US, insurance means technically you have access to health care. It doesn't mean that it won't bankrupt you if you choose to use it. It's been awhile since I looked at the stats, but 10 or so years ago, the leading cause of bankruptcy in the US by a long shot was medical debt.
Having said that, I do totally agree that we make plenty of lifestyle choices here that would be easy to change and would vastly improve health outcomes. But I wonder - just thinking out loud - does a society where preventative medical care is too expensive contribute to a cultural norm of ignoring the need to take care of yourself? Like, "if our medical community doesn't prioritize preventative care, why should I? I'll just get everything checked out when I'm 50."? I don't know, I have to think about that
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Kind of playing devil's advocate, but technically having access to health care and being able to afford utilizing that access are two different things. Lots of Americans who have insurance wait until a health concern becomes insurmountable before going to a doctor, because even with insurance they can't afford to go.
I passed out a few months ago at my nephews baseball game. Turns out it was dehydration and heat exhaustion. But someone called 911 and the paramedics wanted to take me to the ER. I turned down the ambulance ride due to cost, but my dad insisted on driving me to the ER. They checked me in, did an EKG, and told me I was fine. After my insurance paid what it would, I ended up with @ $800 in bills. Probably would have been closer to $1500 if I'd gotten in the ambulance. If I had been home by myself, honestly, I wouldn't have gone to the ER at all for exactly that reason, scared of how much it would cost.
In the US, insurance means technically you have access to health care. It doesn't mean that it won't bankrupt you if you choose to use it. It's been awhile since I looked at the stats, but 10 or so years ago, the leading cause of bankruptcy in the US by a long shot was medical debt.
Having said that, I do totally agree that we make plenty of lifestyle choices here that would be easy to change and would vastly improve health outcomes. But I wonder - just thinking out loud - does a society where preventative medical care is too expensive contribute to a cultural norm of ignoring the need to take care of yourself? Like, "if our medical community doesn't prioritize preventative care, why should I? I'll just get everything checked out when I'm 50."? I don't know, I have to think about that
But how much does REAL prevention cost? You know, eating from the perimeter of the market, staying away from the foods in the center designed to taste really good, but most of us are tempted to eat too much? Moving more, eating less. Getting your annual exam, and so on.
Co pay for my annual visit is on the order of $25. My Dr weighs me, takes my BP, listens, probes, looks, and looks at the lab test results I do in advance. Maybe another $25-$50 in co-pays.
I mean I'm into it for less then $100 for that visit. I know my 19 year old pays more than that for an hour in the tattoo chair, so is it really that people don't have the money, or that they choose to spend it on other things? Does someone with a 2 pack a day smoking habit really not have the money for medical care? Just a few examples.
I spend less than $1/day dealing with my T2D as I'm to test 1x/day and I take 1 500mg Metformin (for now) in addition to my diet changes. (I was already exercising.)
So how much does it really cost?
I do realize other ailments may be more pricey. However, I think for most people, it's not an unbearable expense. It's just not a priority. Look at how many want insurance to pay for so much. One of the reasons things are expensive is because people want OTHERS to pay for them. That's usually the most expensive means of getting something.11 -
tbright1965 wrote: »Kind of playing devil's advocate, but technically having access to health care and being able to afford utilizing that access are two different things. Lots of Americans who have insurance wait until a health concern becomes insurmountable before going to a doctor, because even with insurance they can't afford to go.
I passed out a few months ago at my nephews baseball game. Turns out it was dehydration and heat exhaustion. But someone called 911 and the paramedics wanted to take me to the ER. I turned down the ambulance ride due to cost, but my dad insisted on driving me to the ER. They checked me in, did an EKG, and told me I was fine. After my insurance paid what it would, I ended up with @ $800 in bills. Probably would have been closer to $1500 if I'd gotten in the ambulance. If I had been home by myself, honestly, I wouldn't have gone to the ER at all for exactly that reason, scared of how much it would cost.
In the US, insurance means technically you have access to health care. It doesn't mean that it won't bankrupt you if you choose to use it. It's been awhile since I looked at the stats, but 10 or so years ago, the leading cause of bankruptcy in the US by a long shot was medical debt.
Having said that, I do totally agree that we make plenty of lifestyle choices here that would be easy to change and would vastly improve health outcomes. But I wonder - just thinking out loud - does a society where preventative medical care is too expensive contribute to a cultural norm of ignoring the need to take care of yourself? Like, "if our medical community doesn't prioritize preventative care, why should I? I'll just get everything checked out when I'm 50."? I don't know, I have to think about that
But how much does REAL prevention cost? You know, eating from the perimeter of the market, staying away from the foods in the center designed to taste really good, but most of us are tempted to eat too much? Moving more, eating less. Getting your annual exam, and so on.
Co pay for my annual visit is on the order of $25. My Dr weighs me, takes my BP, listens, probes, looks, and looks at the lab test results I do in advance. Maybe another $25-$50 in co-pays.
I mean I'm into it for less then $100 for that visit. I know my 19 year old pays more than that for an hour in the tattoo chair, so is it really that people don't have the money, or that they choose to spend it on other things? Does someone with a 2 pack a day smoking habit really not have the money for medical care? Just a few examples.
I spend less than $1/day dealing with my T2D as I'm to test 1x/day and I take 1 500mg Metformin (for now) in addition to my diet changes. (I was already exercising.)
So how much does it really cost?
I do realize other ailments may be more pricey. However, I think for most people, it's not an unbearable expense. It's just not a priority. Look at how many want insurance to pay for so much. One of the reasons things are expensive is because people want OTHERS to pay for them. That's usually the most expensive means of getting something.
Lifestyle choices that support disease prevention are important. They don't cancel out the importance and value of screening tests like regular cancer checks or preventative measures like vaccinations. They work hand-in-hand to support our health so if people are financially limited from getting all the recommended checks and preventative care, it can seriously impact their health.
I think all of us know people who did everything "right" and still wound up with medical conditions. In my case, the people were fortunate enough to have access to medical care that caught their conditions early enough to make a difference. I'd like to think everyone is that fortunate, but I know that isn't the case.6 -
A lot of seniors suffer from depression and other mental health issues which can make it difficult to maintain a healthy lifestyle.....ask me how I know. More assistance is needed in this area to help seniors not only fight their issues but supply the means to get their bodies in better shape. There is little concern or care for the elderly unless they have the money to spend on it.1
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@tbright1965 I hear you. It depends on the day of the week which side of the fence I fall on. It's really difficult to parse all the details and tell how many people are legit financially blocked from what they need, and how many are not left with enough $$ to afford health care because they felt like they "needed" other stuff more.
I do wish the US medical community would stress preventative care/checkups more. A lot of the money we pay for insurance, hospital fees, and in taxes for Medicare/Medicaid is to pay the insane costs of end stage treatment for conditions/diseases that could've been caught earlier and treated less expensively then IMHO.0 -
@tbright1965 I hear you. It depends on the day of the week which side of the fence I fall on. It's really difficult to parse all the details and tell how many people are legit financially blocked from what they need, and how many are not left with enough $$ to afford health care because they felt like they "needed" other stuff more.
I do wish the US medical community would stress preventative care/checkups more. A lot of the money we pay for insurance, hospital fees, and in taxes for Medicare/Medicaid is to pay the insane costs of end stage treatment for conditions/diseases that could've been caught earlier and treated less expensively then IMHO.
I think the reality is no one will care more than you do. Not your doctor nor politicians. If consumers don’t care enough to be proactive, it is hard to put the blame on others.
No one can do it for another.
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janejellyroll wrote: »tbright1965 wrote: »Kind of playing devil's advocate, but technically having access to health care and being able to afford utilizing that access are two different things. Lots of Americans who have insurance wait until a health concern becomes insurmountable before going to a doctor, because even with insurance they can't afford to go.
I passed out a few months ago at my nephews baseball game. Turns out it was dehydration and heat exhaustion. But someone called 911 and the paramedics wanted to take me to the ER. I turned down the ambulance ride due to cost, but my dad insisted on driving me to the ER. They checked me in, did an EKG, and told me I was fine. After my insurance paid what it would, I ended up with @ $800 in bills. Probably would have been closer to $1500 if I'd gotten in the ambulance. If I had been home by myself, honestly, I wouldn't have gone to the ER at all for exactly that reason, scared of how much it would cost.
In the US, insurance means technically you have access to health care. It doesn't mean that it won't bankrupt you if you choose to use it. It's been awhile since I looked at the stats, but 10 or so years ago, the leading cause of bankruptcy in the US by a long shot was medical debt.
Having said that, I do totally agree that we make plenty of lifestyle choices here that would be easy to change and would vastly improve health outcomes. But I wonder - just thinking out loud - does a society where preventative medical care is too expensive contribute to a cultural norm of ignoring the need to take care of yourself? Like, "if our medical community doesn't prioritize preventative care, why should I? I'll just get everything checked out when I'm 50."? I don't know, I have to think about that
But how much does REAL prevention cost? You know, eating from the perimeter of the market, staying away from the foods in the center designed to taste really good, but most of us are tempted to eat too much? Moving more, eating less. Getting your annual exam, and so on.
Co pay for my annual visit is on the order of $25. My Dr weighs me, takes my BP, listens, probes, looks, and looks at the lab test results I do in advance. Maybe another $25-$50 in co-pays.
I mean I'm into it for less then $100 for that visit. I know my 19 year old pays more than that for an hour in the tattoo chair, so is it really that people don't have the money, or that they choose to spend it on other things? Does someone with a 2 pack a day smoking habit really not have the money for medical care? Just a few examples.
I spend less than $1/day dealing with my T2D as I'm to test 1x/day and I take 1 500mg Metformin (for now) in addition to my diet changes. (I was already exercising.)
So how much does it really cost?
I do realize other ailments may be more pricey. However, I think for most people, it's not an unbearable expense. It's just not a priority. Look at how many want insurance to pay for so much. One of the reasons things are expensive is because people want OTHERS to pay for them. That's usually the most expensive means of getting something.
Lifestyle choices that support disease prevention are important. They don't cancel out the importance and value of screening tests like regular cancer checks or preventative measures like vaccinations. They work hand-in-hand to support our health so if people are financially limited from getting all the recommended checks and preventative care, it can seriously impact their health.
I think all of us know people who did everything "right" and still wound up with medical conditions. In my case, the people were fortunate enough to have access to medical care that caught their conditions early enough to make a difference. I'd like to think everyone is that fortunate, but I know that isn't the case.
But most are that fortunate, even pre-ACA. I do agree, there is more than one aspect to this.
However, at the center is the individual and their choices. They cannot choose their genetics, but they can choose how they do life.
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tbright1965 wrote: »@tbright1965 I hear you. It depends on the day of the week which side of the fence I fall on. It's really difficult to parse all the details and tell how many people are legit financially blocked from what they need, and how many are not left with enough $$ to afford health care because they felt like they "needed" other stuff more.
I do wish the US medical community would stress preventative care/checkups more. A lot of the money we pay for insurance, hospital fees, and in taxes for Medicare/Medicaid is to pay the insane costs of end stage treatment for conditions/diseases that could've been caught earlier and treated less expensively then IMHO.
I think the reality is no one will care more than you do. Not your doctor nor politicians. If consumers don’t care enough to be proactive, it is hard to put the blame on others.
No one can do it for another.
So true.
In the USA practicing end stage meficine tends to provide a bigger house with more toys than practicing preventative medicine.
9
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