Q and A thread - Angus is peppered.
Replies
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What are the best ways to strength train when you have limited ability to lift. I had a major surgery on my ribcage so I’m not supposed to lift more than 30 lbs ever. For exercise I’m mostly just walking but I would really like to get some core and arm strength back.
First and foremost I would suggest consulting a physical therapist or physician to make sure whatever you DO decide to lift is not contraindicated by your condition.
Due to this, it also limits the specific recommendations I could make (scope of practice and responsibility on my part).
But I can certainly include some general pieces of information:
1) You can achieve muscle hypertrophy with very light weights provided that you do enough work with those light weights and reach a high enough level of fatigue.
2) Do not push through pain, do not perform any exercises that cause pain.
When I was recovering from my hernia operation I maintained muscle with a 40lb load restriction and it was not difficult at all, I just had to do much higher training volumes and use some additional (but optional) techniques like occlusion training.
The 30lb load restriction will not likely be a significant barrier for muscle building at least not for a long while.2 -
Giving this a nudge up -- I'll be checking this thread tonight as I get some other crap done. If anyone else has anything I'm happy to take a look. Thanks!0
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How do you build up to pullups? I know its random but it's one of my fitness goals. I just don't know how to get there at all.0
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Butterchop wrote: »How do you build up to pullups? I know its random but it's one of my fitness goals. I just don't know how to get there at all.
Ooh! @SideSteel helped me with my pullups. I started with eccentric pull ups. Interested to hear if he has more to add!0 -
Butterchop wrote: »How do you build up to pullups? I know its random but it's one of my fitness goals. I just don't know how to get there at all.
I did pull-ups on the assisted machine, and negative pull-ups, and band-assisted pull-ups. It took about a year of this, two or three times a week, before I could do a real pull-up.
Sorry, @sidesteel. I keep barging into your thread. Ban hammer me if you want.1 -
Butterchop wrote: »How do you build up to pullups? I know its random but it's one of my fitness goals. I just don't know how to get there at all.
Great question. I can tell you some generalizations that you can apply and they've worked well for my athletes.
First, I would probably start with chin ups as they are easier for most people (underhand grip vs overhand).
I will write this post assuming you cannot do at least two bodyweight chin ups.
1) I would do eccentric chin ups and assisted chin ups as your main vertical pulls and I'd do these at a high frequency. Band assisted chin ups are fine as are machine assisted.
For eccentric chin ups you will jump to the top position from a box and slowly lower yourself with about a 6 to 8 second lowering phase, then repeat.
Keep in mind that eccentric chin ups cause a high amount of muscle damage and so you will get pretty sore from these and as such I would start out high frequency and low volume and I would build volume primarily.
Here would be one example of how you can progress this in combination with each other and I'll assume you train 3 days per week, of course you can easily modify this.
Day 1:
Assisted Chin Ups 3 x 8 to 12 reps at RPE 8 (leave about 2 reps in the tank on completion of each set)
Eccentric Chin Ups 5 x 1 (5 sets of 1)
Day 2:
Dumbbell Row or other horizontal lat exercise 3 x 8 to 12
Eccentric Chin ups 3 x 2
Day 3:
Assisted Chin Ups 3 x 6 to 8 at RPE 8 to 9 (this will be slightly heavier than day 1 and lower volume, leave 1 to 2 reps in the tank)
Eccentric Chin Ups 6 x 1
Each week, add 1 set to eccentrics for about 4 weeks.
On assisted chin ups once you reach the top of the rep target on all sets you will make a load increase (an assistance decrease in other words) and continue on. So for example on day 3 if you are able to get 3x8 (or alternatively 24 total reps over 3 sets) at the assigned RPE (meaning, leaving 1 to 2 in the tank) you will then reduce the assistance the next time you do that session.
After about 4 weeks, you'll be at 8 and 9 x 1 on day 1 and 3 for eccentrics, and 6x2 on day 2.
I would then move to doubles and triples for the next 4 week block, but reduce the number of sets to bring volume back down but relative intensity up (each set is more difficult).
week 5,6,7,8
day 1 3x2, 4x2, 5x2, 6x2
Day 2 2x3, 3x3, 4x3, 5x3
Day 3 4x2, 5x2, 6x2, 7x2
And you'd keep progressing the assisted chin as you were previously.
Once you complete about two cycles of this I would test to see if you can now do a chin up with bodyweight (or multiples).
This all assumes you are training other lifts of course, and you can probably get away with more upper back training too (other rows) but consider these eccentrics WILL beat you up a bit.
This also assumes that you are not training any of this to failure. I would expect you to leave at least 1 rep in the tank on all sets, possibly more.
If you can already do 2 chin ups and you want to increase this, I would do high frequency chin ups at a submaximal RPE per set and I would build sets first to increase volume.
Simple example assuming you can do a set of 2.
Day 1:
4 x 1
Day 2
2 x 1
Day 3
4 x 1
Add sets each week so that on week 4:
Day 1:
7 x 1
Day 2
5 x 1
Day 3
7 x 1
At some point probably 6 to 8 weeks in, you will likely have added 1 rep to your max per set.
The main point with all of this is to
1) Train the chin up (or a chin up specific exercise) frequently.
2) Do not train to failure on a regular basis due to the recovery deficit it creates and the per-session volume reduction it causes.
3) Increase volume by adding sets before you increase reps per set (which is the main goal).
4) Train the lats with non vertical pulls too, but prioritize vertical pulling.
5) If it coincides with your goals, losing weight helps a TON.
Ok that was a really long post. Let me know if you have questions!
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quiksylver296 wrote: »Butterchop wrote: »How do you build up to pullups? I know its random but it's one of my fitness goals. I just don't know how to get there at all.
I did pull-ups on the assisted machine, and negative pull-ups, and band-assisted pull-ups. It took about a year of this, two or three times a week, before I could do a real pull-up.
Sorry, @sidesteel. I keep barging into your thread. Ban hammer me if you want.
Hah, I can't ban anyone. I'm not a moderator here, just a regular old dude.
And even if I were, I wouldn't ban you and it doesn't bother me that you are posting
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quiksylver296 wrote: »Butterchop wrote: »How do you build up to pullups? I know its random but it's one of my fitness goals. I just don't know how to get there at all.
I did pull-ups on the assisted machine, and negative pull-ups, and band-assisted pull-ups. It took about a year of this, two or three times a week, before I could do a real pull-up.
Sorry, @sidesteel. I keep barging into your thread. Ban hammer me if you want.
Hah, I can't ban anyone. I'm not a moderator here, just a regular old dude.
And even if I were, I wouldn't ban you and it doesn't bother me that you are posting
I was mostly teasing. Your pull-up answer was amazing and the detail was awesome, BTW! 0 -
quiksylver296 wrote: »quiksylver296 wrote: »Butterchop wrote: »How do you build up to pullups? I know its random but it's one of my fitness goals. I just don't know how to get there at all.
I did pull-ups on the assisted machine, and negative pull-ups, and band-assisted pull-ups. It took about a year of this, two or three times a week, before I could do a real pull-up.
Sorry, @sidesteel. I keep barging into your thread. Ban hammer me if you want.
Hah, I can't ban anyone. I'm not a moderator here, just a regular old dude.
And even if I were, I wouldn't ban you and it doesn't bother me that you are posting I was mostly teasing. Your pull-up answer was amazing and the detail was awesome, BTW!
Thanks, I'm glad you enjoyed it 0 -
Also regarding that long chin up post, I should add:
As you continue progressing you are basically adding sets first for several weeks, then you will increase reps per set and decrease sets initially, and then add sets again. Rinse/Repeat.
So for example if you start out being able to do 3 chin ups, you might start the program doing sets of 1. You do this for 6-8 weeks and test, and lets now suppose you can do a set of 5. At THAT point you would probably start the next cycle doing sets of 2 or 3 instead of sets of 1, but you'd follow the same general plan.
You are essentially just continually applying progressive overload by adding chin up volume over time, and we manage the number of reps per set to regulate per-set fatigue.1 -
Do you have any diet tips? And can you post a before/after pic?
(Sorry. I had to. Happy Friday!)0 -
I created a thread regarding this and have received some wonderful, insightful answers, but I was wondering what your take on this is.
I like weight lifting well enough, but there are things that I enjoy *more* (Zumba, swimming, yoga, etc). I have found a progressive resistance program I like (Starting Strength) that calls for 3 days a week. Many people on here also suggest 3-5 days of weight lifting.
Unfortunately, that's just not realistic for me (YET!). I can squeeze it in once (for sure) or twice (at most) a week. I do large compound movements (squat, DLs, bench, overhead presses), so it's not just auxiliary/isolation work.
I know that it won't HURT to lift, but is the difference between (1 or 2 times a week) and 3 times a week significantly different in terms of strength building? I'm not looking for insane physique results, just to maybe start filling out some areas that were fat-filled before. To put it bluntly, I am currently very soft and squishy. As I lose weight, I would like to become less soft and squishy, where resistance training should - theoretically - help.
In terms of background, I am 24/F/5'7"/~220. I have lost ~45-50 pounds this year, with ~80 to go.
One of the recurring comments on my thread was to either do full body every time or do upper/lower splits. My working assumption is that Starting Strength is a (more or less) full body routine (A/B split with A: DL, Bench, Squat; B: DL, OH Press, Squat. Eventually pull ups are incorporated but I'm not there yet).
The plan is to move to working out more times a week, but I'm trying to be realistic with what I can do without burning out, which right now is about 4 times a week, so I'm having to prioritize.
Feed back would be much appreciated.0 -
quiksylver296 wrote: »Do you have any diet tips? And can you post a before/after pic?
(Sorry. I had to. Happy Friday!)
HAHAHAHAHAHA
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I created a thread regarding this and have received some wonderful, insightful answers, but I was wondering what your take on this is.
I like weight lifting well enough, but there are things that I enjoy *more* (Zumba, swimming, yoga, etc). I have found a progressive resistance program I like (Starting Strength) that calls for 3 days a week. Many people on here also suggest 3-5 days of weight lifting.
Unfortunately, that's just not realistic for me (YET!). I can squeeze it in once (for sure) or twice (at most) a week. I do large compound movements (squat, DLs, bench, overhead presses), so it's not just auxiliary/isolation work.
I know that it won't HURT to lift, but is the difference between (1 or 2 times a week) and 3 times a week significantly different in terms of strength building? I'm not looking for insane physique results, just to maybe start filling out some areas that were fat-filled before. To put it bluntly, I am currently very soft and squishy. As I lose weight, I would like to become less soft and squishy, where resistance training should - theoretically - help.
In terms of background, I am 24/F/5'7"/~220. I have lost ~45-50 pounds this year, with ~80 to go.
One of the recurring comments on my thread was to either do full body every time or do upper/lower splits. My working assumption is that Starting Strength is a (more or less) full body routine (A/B split with A: DL, Bench, Squat; B: DL, OH Press, Squat. Eventually pull ups are incorporated but I'm not there yet).
The plan is to move to working out more times a week, but I'm trying to be realistic with what I can do without burning out, which right now is about 4 times a week, so I'm having to prioritize.
Feed back would be much appreciated.
I would not be able to quantify this accurately so I'll just make some generalizations:
1) Given all of your information I suspect you could do a good job maintaining muscle mass while you diet, by training two full body sessions per week.
2) I would expect you to get stronger training two full body sessions per week.
3) I would expect that you may plateau faster with 2/week sessions compared to 3 most likely on pressing movements.
4) I would expect that 3 sessions per week would allow you to progress faster or plateau later.
If I were you, I would try to commit to 2 sessions per week as your minimum, and perhaps there are weeks here and there where you get in a third session here and there, or perhaps in a few months you are able to add a third session should you choose to.
I have programmed clients for 2 days/week because sometimes that's what's on the table as far as schedule and/or desire to train. If that's the case, you're far better off doing 2 and sticking to it compared to attempted to do 4, failing, and then feeling like a failure and giving up.4 -
I created a thread regarding this and have received some wonderful, insightful answers, but I was wondering what your take on this is.
I like weight lifting well enough, but there are things that I enjoy *more* (Zumba, swimming, yoga, etc). I have found a progressive resistance program I like (Starting Strength) that calls for 3 days a week. Many people on here also suggest 3-5 days of weight lifting.
Unfortunately, that's just not realistic for me (YET!). I can squeeze it in once (for sure) or twice (at most) a week. I do large compound movements (squat, DLs, bench, overhead presses), so it's not just auxiliary/isolation work.
I know that it won't HURT to lift, but is the difference between (1 or 2 times a week) and 3 times a week significantly different in terms of strength building? I'm not looking for insane physique results, just to maybe start filling out some areas that were fat-filled before. To put it bluntly, I am currently very soft and squishy. As I lose weight, I would like to become less soft and squishy, where resistance training should - theoretically - help.
In terms of background, I am 24/F/5'7"/~220. I have lost ~45-50 pounds this year, with ~80 to go.
One of the recurring comments on my thread was to either do full body every time or do upper/lower splits. My working assumption is that Starting Strength is a (more or less) full body routine (A/B split with A: DL, Bench, Squat; B: DL, OH Press, Squat. Eventually pull ups are incorporated but I'm not there yet).
The plan is to move to working out more times a week, but I'm trying to be realistic with what I can do without burning out, which right now is about 4 times a week, so I'm having to prioritize.
Feed back would be much appreciated.
I would not be able to quantify this accurately so I'll just make some generalizations:
1) Given all of your information I suspect you could do a good job maintaining muscle mass while you diet, by training two full body sessions per week.
2) I would expect you to get stronger training two full body sessions per week.
3) I would expect that you may plateau faster with 2/week sessions compared to 3 most likely on pressing movements.
4) I would expect that 3 sessions per week would allow you to progress faster or plateau later.
If I were you, I would try to commit to 2 sessions per week as your minimum, and perhaps there are weeks here and there where you get in a third session here and there, or perhaps in a few months you are able to add a third session should you choose to.
I have programmed clients for 2 days/week because sometimes that's what's on the table as far as schedule and/or desire to train. If that's the case, you're far better off doing 2 and sticking to it compared to attempted to do 4, failing, and then feeling like a failure and giving up.
Thank you very much for taking the time to answer. Your thoughtful response definitely helped resolve some hang ups I was having.
I suppose I haven't gotten to that point yet, but are plateaus a major concern in the weight lifting community?
Do people try to combat them or just lift at (or near) their maximum going forward?0 -
I created a thread regarding this and have received some wonderful, insightful answers, but I was wondering what your take on this is.
I like weight lifting well enough, but there are things that I enjoy *more* (Zumba, swimming, yoga, etc). I have found a progressive resistance program I like (Starting Strength) that calls for 3 days a week. Many people on here also suggest 3-5 days of weight lifting.
Unfortunately, that's just not realistic for me (YET!). I can squeeze it in once (for sure) or twice (at most) a week. I do large compound movements (squat, DLs, bench, overhead presses), so it's not just auxiliary/isolation work.
I know that it won't HURT to lift, but is the difference between (1 or 2 times a week) and 3 times a week significantly different in terms of strength building? I'm not looking for insane physique results, just to maybe start filling out some areas that were fat-filled before. To put it bluntly, I am currently very soft and squishy. As I lose weight, I would like to become less soft and squishy, where resistance training should - theoretically - help.
In terms of background, I am 24/F/5'7"/~220. I have lost ~45-50 pounds this year, with ~80 to go.
One of the recurring comments on my thread was to either do full body every time or do upper/lower splits. My working assumption is that Starting Strength is a (more or less) full body routine (A/B split with A: DL, Bench, Squat; B: DL, OH Press, Squat. Eventually pull ups are incorporated but I'm not there yet).
The plan is to move to working out more times a week, but I'm trying to be realistic with what I can do without burning out, which right now is about 4 times a week, so I'm having to prioritize.
Feed back would be much appreciated.
I would not be able to quantify this accurately so I'll just make some generalizations:
1) Given all of your information I suspect you could do a good job maintaining muscle mass while you diet, by training two full body sessions per week.
2) I would expect you to get stronger training two full body sessions per week.
3) I would expect that you may plateau faster with 2/week sessions compared to 3 most likely on pressing movements.
4) I would expect that 3 sessions per week would allow you to progress faster or plateau later.
If I were you, I would try to commit to 2 sessions per week as your minimum, and perhaps there are weeks here and there where you get in a third session here and there, or perhaps in a few months you are able to add a third session should you choose to.
I have programmed clients for 2 days/week because sometimes that's what's on the table as far as schedule and/or desire to train. If that's the case, you're far better off doing 2 and sticking to it compared to attempted to do 4, failing, and then feeling like a failure and giving up.
Thank you very much for taking the time to answer. Your thoughtful response definitely helped resolve some hang ups I was having.
I suppose I haven't gotten to that point yet, but are plateaus a major concern in the weight lifting community?
Do people try to combat them or just lift at (or near) their maximum going forward?
If the goal is to maintain a physique or maintain muscle mass as you diet, they are much less of a concern.
If the goal is to cause muscle hypertrophy (grow muscle) they are a moderate concern. You can of course find other ways to progressively overload to compensate.
If the goal is to compete in a strength sport they are a very big concern.
I'd say for most people you should be attempting to get stronger in the compound movements until the cost of doing so becomes unreasonable to the individual. For example and just for context: the overweight senior citizen who is trying to improve her health markers, bone density, muscle mass, etc should also want to get stronger, but very quickly it will become unreasonable due to cost of effort. It's not likely she's going to add an additional training session and hire a strength coach and start undulating rep ranges and taking creatine and working on bench press technique and buy a belt and knee sleeves.
But a mid 20's single male who wants to compete in powerlifting or bodybuilding, or who really wants to get his abs to pop and hit a 300lb bench? He might do all of that and much more.
Obviously I'm being a bit ridiculous but I hope the point I'm making comes across as valid just to illustrate cost of effort and differences between individuals.
And to be very clear, it doesn't make either one of these people a better person.4 -
Wow, I just read all seven pages and I can’t believe this thread has flown totally under my radar all these months! And I even have a question I’ve been too embarrassed to ask elsewhere because it’s boring, personal, and makes me look kind of neurotic. But you asked for it! First, the basics: I’m a 34 year old woman, 5’2”, 164 lbs and losing about a pound a week on 1800-2000 net daily calories, aiming for 135 lbs.
I’ve been at this a little over a year now and feel really comfortable with the process generally, but have consistently struggled to hit my protein goals. I’ve been kind of blasé about it as I am rarely hungry and it’s not that low (I’m generally averaging 75g), but reading the earlier question on protein, I realize I probably should get serious about boosting it some. My goals here are basically all around strength and fitness, plus preserving muscle. I do 30-60 minute body weight interval or agility workouts 5-6 times a week (fitness blender) and stretch every night. I expect another year of deficit to my goal weight.
I’ve read a lot of the “how do I eat more protein?” threads and I understand the basic answer (eat more eggs, chicken, shakes, etc). The roadblock I keep running up against is that my meals have become very structured over the last year and I’m really reluctant to change that given how well everything else is working for me. I also am not usually satiated drinking my calories. Go ahead and tell me to suck it up and drink a shake for breakfast if that’s the bottom line here. But I’d love to get some more specific suggestions on how to reach a solid protein intake with minimal structural impact to my diet. Hard no on yogurt (barf) but I’m pretty good eating anything else. My diary is open.
I use a TDEE/weekly average model: roughly 1665 calories in, approx 175 exercise not eaten back, twice a week “refeed” averaging 2000-3000 additional calories (i.e. drinking and eating lots of carbs mostly) ending up at that 1900 ish average. I usually skip breakfast and lunch the day after a refeed. Although I occasionally have a sandwich for lunch or fast food for dinner, most days look like this (I know the math isn’t perfect, sorry):
Breakfast (215 kcal, 12.5g protein): coffee, string cheese, fruit
Lunch (550 kcal, 30g): one hard boiled egg, 1-2 ounces of cheese, fruit and/or raw veggies, 1-2 oz meat (usually cured), 1-2 oz crackers, a small portion of nuts, seeds, or chocolate.
Snack (120 kcal, 4.5g): 1.5 oz feta and olives in olive oil
Dinner (650 kcal, 30-60g): 3-4 times a week I eat whatever my husband cooks, calories estimated, if it’s higher on the protein side I usually make my daily target, but it’s not averaging out. The other days are usually more of the same as lunch, often with a can of tuna, usually hitting about 30g protein. I usually also drink a half cup of milk.
Snack (250 kcal, 0g): red wine and jelly beans
Sorry for all the detail - like I said above, kind of neurotic, but so it goes. Thanks!
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This question wss triggered by the pull-up progression sub thread.
Would you be willing to say a little more about how you think about volume, fatigue & recovery - the relationship between per-workout fatigue and inter-workout recovery, if there are rules of thumb to avoid avoid stalling progress or raising injury risk, what warning signs there might be, or really anything in that neighborhood?
As an older person (62) my experience-based perception is that I need a little more recovery time or intensity/volume caution than I did a decade or two ago; and that minor injury (maybe even fatigue/weakness) that can result from "too much" has a higher cost in the sense that I also seem to de-train a tiny bit faster if I have to back off my workout routine due to minor injuries and such. Still, I like to push myself (but safely).
I'm really asking about concepts or rules of thumb I can apply in my mixed-modes framework.
From a PP, you may recall that I'm a rower, which involves some small strength/resistance, but very substantial reps. At this point, I'm better off if I don't row hard every day in season (recovery needs, marginal knee), but every other is OK, and things like spinning or biking work on the alternate days, even though there's some leg action.
But I tend to avoid any serious resistance leg work in rowing season based on fears about under-recovery. I can keep some upper-body work going in rowing season, but tend to drop out things that use the same muscles in the same general way as rowing but keep some that are complementary (upper body push, like bench press, for example).
So, I'm wondering if you have any general principles you can share about volume, fatigue, recovery, that might help me clarify my thinking about how to balance stresses from varied activities, while pushing myself a bit.
I know this is an abstract, messy question, so "No" is a perfectly valid answer! If you even know of sources I could use to self-educate a bit, that would be hepful.
Thanks.
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MegaMooseEsq wrote: »Wow, I just read all seven pages and I can’t believe this thread has flown totally under my radar all these months! And I even have a question I’ve been too embarrassed to ask elsewhere because it’s boring, personal, and makes me look kind of neurotic. But you asked for it! First, the basics: I’m a 34 year old woman, 5’2”, 164 lbs and losing about a pound a week on 1800-2000 net daily calories, aiming for 135 lbs.
I’ve been at this a little over a year now and feel really comfortable with the process generally, but have consistently struggled to hit my protein goals. I’ve been kind of blasé about it as I am rarely hungry and it’s not that low (I’m generally averaging 75g), but reading the earlier question on protein, I realize I probably should get serious about boosting it some. My goals here are basically all around strength and fitness, plus preserving muscle. I do 30-60 minute body weight interval or agility workouts 5-6 times a week (fitness blender) and stretch every night. I expect another year of deficit to my goal weight.
I’ve read a lot of the “how do I eat more protein?” threads and I understand the basic answer (eat more eggs, chicken, shakes, etc). The roadblock I keep running up against is that my meals have become very structured over the last year and I’m really reluctant to change that given how well everything else is working for me. I also am not usually satiated drinking my calories. Go ahead and tell me to suck it up and drink a shake for breakfast if that’s the bottom line here. But I’d love to get some more specific suggestions on how to reach a solid protein intake with minimal structural impact to my diet. Hard no on yogurt (barf) but I’m pretty good eating anything else. My diary is open.
I use a TDEE/weekly average model: roughly 1665 calories in, approx 175 exercise not eaten back, twice a week “refeed” averaging 2000-3000 additional calories (i.e. drinking and eating lots of carbs mostly) ending up at that 1900 ish average. I usually skip breakfast and lunch the day after a refeed. Although I occasionally have a sandwich for lunch or fast food for dinner, most days look like this (I know the math isn’t perfect, sorry):
Breakfast (215 kcal, 12.5g protein): coffee, string cheese, fruit
Lunch (550 kcal, 30g): one hard boiled egg, 1-2 ounces of cheese, fruit and/or raw veggies, 1-2 oz meat (usually cured), 1-2 oz crackers, a small portion of nuts, seeds, or chocolate.
Snack (120 kcal, 4.5g): 1.5 oz feta and olives in olive oil
Dinner (650 kcal, 30-60g): 3-4 times a week I eat whatever my husband cooks, calories estimated, if it’s higher on the protein side I usually make my daily target, but it’s not averaging out. The other days are usually more of the same as lunch, often with a can of tuna, usually hitting about 30g protein. I usually also drink a half cup of milk.
Snack (250 kcal, 0g): red wine and jelly beans
Sorry for all the detail - like I said above, kind of neurotic, but so it goes. Thanks!
I'll give a few suggestions but when clients ask me about food suggestions (which is essentially what this is) I think soliciting a group of people is a better method. So when this happens with a client on a Skype call I will ask them to post it to our client group on facebook, because now there's 50+ people who are mostly diet-conscious people who can provide different suggestions based on their preferences.
Having said that, I see the most opportunity in breakfast and the two snacks, and we also have at least some evidence that a decent sized protein feeding at breakfast can better regulate appetite later in the day.
You could add in whey protein (you don't necessarily need to drink it, you could use it to make a beltsander brownie for example). You could try cottage cheese (I hate this food but many people love it), you could try other dairy products with low fat so that it doesn't add calories.
I would actually consider the addition of whey protein to be the least disruptive to your current diet habits and you could easily add in 1 to 2 scoops per day to make a significant increase to your protein.
Sorry I don't have much more to add -- but I'll also suggest you just make a post about it in the public forums here because it will allow you to solicit feedback from a lot of people who all have different taste preferences, and that's the sort of situation you WANT for an issue like this because someone may have an idea that I'll never come up with, and you might love it.0 -
MegaMooseEsq wrote: »Wow, I just read all seven pages and I can’t believe this thread has flown totally under my radar all these months! And I even have a question I’ve been too embarrassed to ask elsewhere because it’s boring, personal, and makes me look kind of neurotic. But you asked for it! First, the basics: I’m a 34 year old woman, 5’2”, 164 lbs and losing about a pound a week on 1800-2000 net daily calories, aiming for 135 lbs.
I’ve been at this a little over a year now and feel really comfortable with the process generally, but have consistently struggled to hit my protein goals. I’ve been kind of blasé about it as I am rarely hungry and it’s not that low (I’m generally averaging 75g), but reading the earlier question on protein, I realize I probably should get serious about boosting it some. My goals here are basically all around strength and fitness, plus preserving muscle. I do 30-60 minute body weight interval or agility workouts 5-6 times a week (fitness blender) and stretch every night. I expect another year of deficit to my goal weight.
I’ve read a lot of the “how do I eat more protein?” threads and I understand the basic answer (eat more eggs, chicken, shakes, etc). The roadblock I keep running up against is that my meals have become very structured over the last year and I’m really reluctant to change that given how well everything else is working for me. I also am not usually satiated drinking my calories. Go ahead and tell me to suck it up and drink a shake for breakfast if that’s the bottom line here. But I’d love to get some more specific suggestions on how to reach a solid protein intake with minimal structural impact to my diet. Hard no on yogurt (barf) but I’m pretty good eating anything else. My diary is open.
I use a TDEE/weekly average model: roughly 1665 calories in, approx 175 exercise not eaten back, twice a week “refeed” averaging 2000-3000 additional calories (i.e. drinking and eating lots of carbs mostly) ending up at that 1900 ish average. I usually skip breakfast and lunch the day after a refeed. Although I occasionally have a sandwich for lunch or fast food for dinner, most days look like this (I know the math isn’t perfect, sorry):
Breakfast (215 kcal, 12.5g protein): coffee, string cheese, fruit
Lunch (550 kcal, 30g): one hard boiled egg, 1-2 ounces of cheese, fruit and/or raw veggies, 1-2 oz meat (usually cured), 1-2 oz crackers, a small portion of nuts, seeds, or chocolate.
Snack (120 kcal, 4.5g): 1.5 oz feta and olives in olive oil
Dinner (650 kcal, 30-60g): 3-4 times a week I eat whatever my husband cooks, calories estimated, if it’s higher on the protein side I usually make my daily target, but it’s not averaging out. The other days are usually more of the same as lunch, often with a can of tuna, usually hitting about 30g protein. I usually also drink a half cup of milk.
Snack (250 kcal, 0g): red wine and jelly beans
Sorry for all the detail - like I said above, kind of neurotic, but so it goes. Thanks!
I'll give a few suggestions but when clients ask me about food suggestions (which is essentially what this is) I think soliciting a group of people is a better method. So when this happens with a client on a Skype call I will ask them to post it to our client group on facebook, because now there's 50+ people who are mostly diet-conscious people who can provide different suggestions based on their preferences.
Having said that, I see the most opportunity in breakfast and the two snacks, and we also have at least some evidence that a decent sized protein feeding at breakfast can better regulate appetite later in the day.
You could add in whey protein (you don't necessarily need to drink it, you could use it to make a beltsander brownie for example). You could try cottage cheese (I hate this food but many people love it), you could try other dairy products with low fat so that it doesn't add calories.
I would actually consider the addition of whey protein to be the least disruptive to your current diet habits and you could easily add in 1 to 2 scoops per day to make a significant increase to your protein.
Sorry I don't have much more to add -- but I'll also suggest you just make a post about it in the public forums here because it will allow you to solicit feedback from a lot of people who all have different taste preferences, and that's the sort of situation you WANT for an issue like this because someone may have an idea that I'll never come up with, and you might love it.
Good point about the crowd sourcing. Im a lot more confident responding to other people’s posts than starting my own, for never reason. I’ll have to look into ideas for integrating powder. I don’t hate the idea of shakes, but they all seem to be around 150 calories so would wipe out most of my morning food. I’ve also thought about swapping out my evening wine and sweets (sobs) on days when I’m low after dinner. I generally let my husband pick what we eat, so it’s trip I don’t mind cottage cheese, but since I’d probably be swapping out the string cheese for it in the am, I’m not sure I’d get much net gain.0 -
Well, I lost my response because my keyboard pooped out, but thank you! I’ve been anxious about posting this in its own thread because I’m half expecting to get grief about my eating habits being weirdly restrictive or something, especially since I often encourage others not to over restrict. I’ll think about it though. And look up ways to work in a supplement. Something at the end of the day might work for days I’m low on my goal.0
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This question wss triggered by the pull-up progression sub thread.
Would you be willing to say a little more about how you think about volume, fatigue & recovery - the relationship between per-workout fatigue and inter-workout recovery, if there are rules of thumb to avoid avoid stalling progress or raising injury risk, what warning signs there might be, or really anything in that neighborhood?
I can try.
When you design a program (lets assume the goals are a mix of strength and hypertrophy and lets assume the exercise selections are matching the goals, limitations, etc of the individual for purposes of me not including all of those caveats lol) you need to manage frequency, intensity, and volume in such a way that:
1) You are able to adequately perform during the session. This means not doing too much volume on any given exercise or body-part. This means managing fatigue on a per set basis so that you don't fall behind. One example using the chins ups, if I had someone take a set of chin ups all the way to failure, and then try to do 2 more sets of chin ups, the per-session volume of chin ups would likely be LOWER compared to not going to failure, or only going to failure on the final set.
It may look like this going to failure:
set 1: 11 reps (fail)
set 2: 6 reps (fail)
Set 3: 3 reps (fail)
And taking each set to RPE 8 (leave 2 in the tank) may look like this for that same person:
Set 1: 9 reps
Set 2: 8 reps
Set 3: 6 reps
The latter would be a increase in total training volume compared to the former and the latter would also likely lead to more productive work AFTER the chin ups in that same session because you wouldn't be as fatigued.
And so it's about managing program structure in terms of arranging the exercises in such a way that you can perform them well, and managing intra-workout fatigue from set to set or exercise to exercise so you can keep performing in that session.
Intra workout and pre workout nutrition make take a part in this too. Caffeine could help a bit, avoiding blood sugar crashes could help. Glycogen gets brought up too but I think most people don't fully deplete glycogen and so it's likely less of an issue.
2) As far as session to session, you need to be well aware of how fatigue from session A may effect performance in session B. Some trial and error is obviously needed but basically, if you do too much volume on a given lift or bodypart in session A and you try to train the same lift two days later, your performance may suffer.
One very simple thought process might be to structure it like this: Challenging, Easy, Challenging. So session 1 you do 4x8 at RPE 8 on the squat which is pretty tough. Two days later you do 8 x 1 on the squat at RPE 7 (heavier weight on the bar but FAR less fatiguing), Two days later you do 4x4 @ RPE 8 to 9 on the squat which would be very heavy strength work.
And so that middle session on the squat is actually easy even though it's fairly heavy. The volume is low but you're getting really good strength practice in that session and by the time the third day of squats rolls around, you're better recovered and able to really crush a heavy session.
You can also train lifts back to back. I have programmed bench press 5 days per week for some clients although it's not often I'll do that. But you CAN do it if you manipulate volume and intensity intelligently enough to not get someone buried with fatigue.
3) As far as avoiding stalling, a very simple way to diagnose it that isn't ALWAYS going to be correct but it's a very good starting point:
"Do I feel constantly beat up, some soreness in the muscles used on this lift, and somewhat demotivated?" - You could be doing too much and need to back off a bit and allow for better recovery.
"Do I generally feel good, I just can't get stronger" - You probably need to do more.
Doing more may consist of adding another set. It may consist of adding another session on that exercise, plenty of ways to "do more".
Could also be technique related or mental (as silly as that sounds it's definitely a strength variable).
4) As far as injury risk, I think anytime you start lifting weights you are accepting some amount of injury risk. The goal should be to minimize that risk of course, but I think you can do everything right and still get hurt.
My main concerns around injury would be not performing technically demanding exercises under conditions of high fatigue whether that's chronic fatigue (ie training for months on end with no deload) or acute fatigue (20 rep sets of squats where the last 5 reps all suck because acute fatigue turned your form into garbage).
And the obvious one, making sure your technique is reasonably sound to begin with.
As an older person (62) my experience-based perception is that I need a little more recovery time or intensity/volume caution than I did a decade or two ago; and that minor injury (maybe even fatigue/weakness) that can result from "too much" has a higher cost in the sense that I also seem to de-train a tiny bit faster if I have to back off my workout routine due to minor injuries and such. Still, I like to push myself (but safely).
I'm really asking about concepts or rules of thumb I can apply in my mixed-modes framework.
From a PP, you may recall that I'm a rower, which involves some small strength/resistance, but very substantial reps. At this point, I'm better off if I don't row hard every day in season (recovery needs, marginal knee), but every other is OK, and things like spinning or biking work on the alternate days, even though there's some leg action.
But I tend to avoid any serious resistance leg work in rowing season based on fears about under-recovery. I can keep some upper-body work going in rowing season, but tend to drop out things that use the same muscles in the same general way as rowing but keep some that are complementary (upper body push, like bench press, for example).
So, I'm wondering if you have any general principles you can share about volume, fatigue, recovery, that might help me clarify my thinking about how to balance stresses from varied activities, while pushing myself a bit.
I know this is an abstract, messy question, so "No" is a perfectly valid answer! If you even know of sources I could use to self-educate a bit, that would be hepful.
Thanks.
Yep, I remember you being a rower
Let me know if this answers your questions. I just arrived in CA today to hang out with and coach @Sarauk2sf and another client of mine who are both powerlifting tomorrow. About to go grab some food but I'll check in this weekend or tonight and answer any other questions.
I sort of rambled here but that's also sort of what you asked for I think, lol
3 -
Oh wow, I feel foolish, but also, I figured out the solution to my question, so I guess typing that novel and reading your response shook something loose - I only started eating the evening jelly beans because something about being in a deficit made me crave sugar, which is odd because I never had a sweet tooth before. But I’m not particularly attached to the jelly beans, so if I can find something sweet to supplement with that’s around the same 100-150 calories (which a lot of the premade shakes on the market seem to be), I’d be golden! Plus, the jelly beans had zero protein so it’s all be a bonus. Woo! Off to google protein treats! Thank you again!3
-
This question wss triggered by the pull-up progression sub thread.
Would you be willing to say a little more about how you think about volume, fatigue & recovery - the relationship between per-workout fatigue and inter-workout recovery, if there are rules of thumb to avoid avoid stalling progress or raising injury risk, what warning signs there might be, or really anything in that neighborhood?
I can try.
When you design a program (lets assume the goals are a mix of strength and hypertrophy and lets assume the exercise selections are matching the goals, limitations, etc of the individual for purposes of me not including all of those caveats lol) you need to manage frequency, intensity, and volume in such a way that:
1) You are able to adequately perform during the session. This means not doing too much volume on any given exercise or body-part. This means managing fatigue on a per set basis so that you don't fall behind. One example using the chins ups, if I had someone take a set of chin ups all the way to failure, and then try to do 2 more sets of chin ups, the per-session volume of chin ups would likely be LOWER compared to not going to failure, or only going to failure on the final set.
It may look like this going to failure:
set 1: 11 reps (fail)
set 2: 6 reps (fail)
Set 3: 3 reps (fail)
And taking each set to RPE 8 (leave 2 in the tank) may look like this for that same person:
Set 1: 9 reps
Set 2: 8 reps
Set 3: 6 reps
The latter would be a increase in total training volume compared to the former and the latter would also likely lead to more productive work AFTER the chin ups in that same session because you wouldn't be as fatigued.
And so it's about managing program structure in terms of arranging the exercises in such a way that you can perform them well, and managing intra-workout fatigue from set to set or exercise to exercise so you can keep performing in that session.
Intra workout and pre workout nutrition make take a part in this too. Caffeine could help a bit, avoiding blood sugar crashes could help. Glycogen gets brought up too but I think most people don't fully deplete glycogen and so it's likely less of an issue.
2) As far as session to session, you need to be well aware of how fatigue from session A may effect performance in session B. Some trial and error is obviously needed but basically, if you do too much volume on a given lift or bodypart in session A and you try to train the same lift two days later, your performance may suffer.
One very simple thought process might be to structure it like this: Challenging, Easy, Challenging. So session 1 you do 4x8 at RPE 8 on the squat which is pretty tough. Two days later you do 8 x 1 on the squat at RPE 7 (heavier weight on the bar but FAR less fatiguing), Two days later you do 4x4 @ RPE 8 to 9 on the squat which would be very heavy strength work.
And so that middle session on the squat is actually easy even though it's fairly heavy. The volume is low but you're getting really good strength practice in that session and by the time the third day of squats rolls around, you're better recovered and able to really crush a heavy session.
You can also train lifts back to back. I have programmed bench press 5 days per week for some clients although it's not often I'll do that. But you CAN do it if you manipulate volume and intensity intelligently enough to not get someone buried with fatigue.
3) As far as avoiding stalling, a very simple way to diagnose it that isn't ALWAYS going to be correct but it's a very good starting point:
"Do I feel constantly beat up, some soreness in the muscles used on this lift, and somewhat demotivated?" - You could be doing too much and need to back off a bit and allow for better recovery.
"Do I generally feel good, I just can't get stronger" - You probably need to do more.
Doing more may consist of adding another set. It may consist of adding another session on that exercise, plenty of ways to "do more".
Could also be technique related or mental (as silly as that sounds it's definitely a strength variable).
4) As far as injury risk, I think anytime you start lifting weights you are accepting some amount of injury risk. The goal should be to minimize that risk of course, but I think you can do everything right and still get hurt.
My main concerns around injury would be not performing technically demanding exercises under conditions of high fatigue whether that's chronic fatigue (ie training for months on end with no deload) or acute fatigue (20 rep sets of squats where the last 5 reps all suck because acute fatigue turned your form into garbage).
And the obvious one, making sure your technique is reasonably sound to begin with.
As an older person (62) my experience-based perception is that I need a little more recovery time or intensity/volume caution than I did a decade or two ago; and that minor injury (maybe even fatigue/weakness) that can result from "too much" has a higher cost in the sense that I also seem to de-train a tiny bit faster if I have to back off my workout routine due to minor injuries and such. Still, I like to push myself (but safely).
I'm really asking about concepts or rules of thumb I can apply in my mixed-modes framework.
From a PP, you may recall that I'm a rower, which involves some small strength/resistance, but very substantial reps. At this point, I'm better off if I don't row hard every day in season (recovery needs, marginal knee), but every other is OK, and things like spinning or biking work on the alternate days, even though there's some leg action.
But I tend to avoid any serious resistance leg work in rowing season based on fears about under-recovery. I can keep some upper-body work going in rowing season, but tend to drop out things that use the same muscles in the same general way as rowing but keep some that are complementary (upper body push, like bench press, for example).
So, I'm wondering if you have any general principles you can share about volume, fatigue, recovery, that might help me clarify my thinking about how to balance stresses from varied activities, while pushing myself a bit.
I know this is an abstract, messy question, so "No" is a perfectly valid answer! If you even know of sources I could use to self-educate a bit, that would be hepful.
Thanks.
Yep, I remember you being a rower
Let me know if this answers your questions. I just arrived in CA today to hang out with and coach @Sarauk2sf and another client of mine who are both powerlifting tomorrow. About to go grab some food but I'll check in this weekend or tonight and answer any other questions.
I sort of rambled here but that's also sort of what you asked for I think, lol
Yes, it's very helpful food for thought - some of it supporting my formless intuitions, some of it usefully challenging them.
Thank you for taking so much time to help me give some form to my formlessness. I'll re-read and re-mull multiple times, I'm sure. 1 -
Thankyou so much for the detailed answer!!0
-
I've a hourglass figure (currently 92cm-70cm-99cm), which I really like, but I'd like to have a rounder bum. This summer I increased calories a bit and it was round, but my middle section got square, like runners have, so I didn't feel like me anymore and cut down calories. Now I'm in deficit focusing on losing my last 18lbs, bum is smaller, but I have that Coca Cola bottle figure again.
Is it possible to grow a bum and lose weight at the same time? If not, once I get to maintenance, what exercises/food strategy should I use to stay hourglass and build a bum?0 -
gymprincess1234 wrote: »I've a hourglass figure (currently 92cm-70cm-99cm), which I really like, but I'd like to have a rounder bum. This summer I increased calories a bit and it was round, but my middle section got square, like runners have, so I didn't feel like me anymore and cut down calories. Now I'm in deficit focusing on losing my last 18lbs, bum is smaller, but I have that Coca Cola bottle figure again.
Is it possible to grow a bum and lose weight at the same time? If not, once I get to maintenance, what exercises/food strategy should I use to stay hourglass and build a bum?
Generally speaking (some exceptions to this) when you eat above and beyond your maintenance calorie intake you will add body fat in addition to giving yourself the potential to maximize muscle gain during that time period.
When you eat below maintenance (in a calorie deficit) you will lose weight and some of this weight may come from muscle tissue although if done correctly you can minimize this. It IS possible to gain muscle in a deficit but it's not as easy to do and it's arguably less efficient in a dieting phase.
And so it doesn't surprise me that with the addition of calories you may have added body fat which would cause your "shape" to change.
As far as how to change the shape of your bum, the short answer is "years of training" rather than "weeks of training".
The function of the glutes are to extend and externally rotate the hips and so if you can find a way to train these functions against resistance, you'll provide a stimulus to the glutes to allow growth.
Non dorky version:
Train your glutes, and make sure you get stronger at the exercises you use to train them.
Suggested exercises:
Barbell Hip Thrusts
Barbell Glute Bridges
Single Leg Hip Thrusts
Banded Hip ABduction
Hip Abduction machine
Cable Pull Throughs
And of course everyone's favorite: Squats and Deads, although I'd definitely add in some very direct glute work like a hip thrust variation too.
0 -
Most important question answered first: Pie, but it does depend. A really good cake will certainly beat out bad.
Please allow me to introduce you all to The Cake https://www.carolinescakes.com/mobile/7-Layer-Bliss-Cake/productinfo/7LB/ I bought it as a gift for my family for Christmas Dinner dessert. It also
Comes in caramel, coconut, apple spice, carrot cake ... They ship anywhere in the US.
It. Was. Incredible. And I’m not really a cake/sweets person. Please continue with your regularly scheduled programming (drooling).
@bioklutz @thunderchild007
Edited to tag folks who said they like cake. 1 -
gymprincess1234 wrote: »I've a hourglass figure (currently 92cm-70cm-99cm), which I really like, but I'd like to have a rounder bum. This summer I increased calories a bit and it was round, but my middle section got square, like runners have, so I didn't feel like me anymore and cut down calories. Now I'm in deficit focusing on losing my last 18lbs, bum is smaller, but I have that Coca Cola bottle figure again.
Is it possible to grow a bum and lose weight at the same time? If not, once I get to maintenance, what exercises/food strategy should I use to stay hourglass and build a bum?
Generally speaking (some exceptions to this) when you eat above and beyond your maintenance calorie intake you will add body fat in addition to giving yourself the potential to maximize muscle gain during that time period.
When you eat below maintenance (in a calorie deficit) you will lose weight and some of this weight may come from muscle tissue although if done correctly you can minimize this. It IS possible to gain muscle in a deficit but it's not as easy to do and it's arguably less efficient in a dieting phase.
And so it doesn't surprise me that with the addition of calories you may have added body fat which would cause your "shape" to change.
As far as how to change the shape of your bum, the short answer is "years of training" rather than "weeks of training".
The function of the glutes are to extend and externally rotate the hips and so if you can find a way to train these functions against resistance, you'll provide a stimulus to the glutes to allow growth.
Non dorky version:
Train your glutes, and make sure you get stronger at the exercises you use to train them.
Suggested exercises:
Barbell Hip Thrusts
Barbell Glute Bridges
Single Leg Hip Thrusts
Banded Hip ABduction
Hip Abduction machine
Cable Pull Throughs
And of course everyone's favorite: Squats and Deads, although I'd definitely add in some very direct glute work like a hip thrust variation too.
Thank you! I already do these exercises (however I prefer with kettle bells) and been doing for more than a year. I see progress, but guess I will have to finish fat loss first and then focus on curves.0 -
Hi, and thank you for sharing your knowledge here.
I have a question regarding strength training. I am female, currently 5ft2 and 152lbs. My first goal weight is 133lbs, then I will see from there.
I started doing the C25K workout, running 3 times a week. Im only on the 2nd week but already feel better, can run further without feeling out of breath. I'd like to continue with this but I'd also like to do some strength training. I wouldn't really want to work out more than 5 days per week.
I can't go to the gym but I do have two dumbbells at home (if loading all the weight onto one the total would be 18.5kg, so not much if using two). I also have two plates which are 7.5kg each. I'm willing to buy some other weights or additional ones but I can only do at home workouts. Is it pointless with such low weights? I want to retain some muscle while losing weight and see better changes to my body than just doing cardio alone.
Do you have any advice? Any suggestions on equipment to buy at home (within a reasonable budget) or is it not going to be beneficial with such little weight?
Do mainly like the cardio so that I can eat a bit more (I'm on 1200 cals per day), but is 3x per week too much?
Thanks so much in advance 0
This discussion has been closed.
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