Has Weight Watchers gone insane?
Replies
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I ate a whole pineapple from the farmers market one summer. The most delicious fruit I ever ate... and then my mouth hurt so bad from all the acid that I couldn’t eat anything else for two days. So i guess those 450 calories didn’t do much damage lol25
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I am on WW, I'm finding the new program very flexible. I ate TONS of 0 point foods, including: 2 eggs, grapes, apple, celery, lettuce, chicken breast. Within REASON you can eat these things, WW does not tell you to gorge yourself on 0 point foods. They make them 0 points because they know that people will not overdo them. I get 23 points a day, I dipped into my weeklies by 4. I calculated my calories to be around 1,450. I'm in a deficit by at least 500. Feeling good! They do demonize SATURATED FAT (not all Fat), and sugar but they are not off limits, you just have to ask yourself, is it really worth 15 points for a slice of cake...10
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I am on WW, I'm finding the new program very flexible. I ate TONS of 0 point foods, including: 2 eggs, grapes, apple, celery, lettuce, chicken breast. Within REASON you can eat these things, WW does not tell you to gorge yourself on 0 point foods. They make them 0 points because they know that people will not overdo them. I get 23 points a day, I dipped into my weeklies by 4. I calculated my calories to be around 1,450. I'm in a deficit by at least 500. Feeling good! They do demonize SATURATED FAT (not all Fat), and sugar but they are not off limits, you just have to ask yourself, is it really worth 15 points for a slice of cake...
How do they know people won't overdo them? It would be pretty easy for me to put away a fair amount of grapes, or chicken breast, or eggs if I was hungry and thinking of those as free foods.
I guess if the foods they say are "free" are foods you personally don't overeat, it would work. But the foods you listed aren't universally hard to overeat.21 -
I am on WW, I'm finding the new program very flexible. I ate TONS of 0 point foods, including: 2 eggs, grapes, apple, celery, lettuce, chicken breast. Within REASON you can eat these things, WW does not tell you to gorge yourself on 0 point foods. They make them 0 points because they know that people will not overdo them. I get 23 points a day, I dipped into my weeklies by 4. I calculated my calories to be around 1,450. I'm in a deficit by at least 500. Feeling good! They do demonize SATURATED FAT (not all Fat), and sugar but they are not off limits, you just have to ask yourself, is it really worth 15 points for a slice of cake...
How do they know people won't overdo them? It would be pretty easy for me to put away a fair amount of grapes, or chicken breast, or eggs if I was hungry and thinking of those as free foods.
I guess if the foods they say are "free" are foods you personally don't overeat, it would work. But the foods you listed aren't universally hard to overeat.
They (WW) don't "know" that someone wont over eat them, just like MFP does not know that you are accurately tracking your food down to the gram. It's really up to the individual to be honest with things. There may be people that think they can gorge themselves on 0 point foods and they learn really quick that they will not lose weight. Most people on WeightWatchers understand what a serving is. Yes, when you're hungry you can overdo it on a lot of things, and that's universal for any program you are doing.6 -
But why should a slice of cake have to cost 15 points? And how big is the slice? If a 3" square slice of birthday cake is about 350 calories, why should it run you more almost 2/3s of your daily allotment?
And it is VERY possible to overdo 0-point foods. Even if WW doesn't tell you to gorge on them, the perception is that if the foods are 0 points, you can eat them without penalty. A 3-egg omelet or fritatta is already at 210 calories before I add any oil or veggies to it. So. A couple of days ago, this was my lunch and supper:
1101 calories total.
BUT, only 120-165 of my lunch calories would apparently have point values (eggs, oil, and veggie dogs for sure. Not positive whether peas and salsa are zero points).
And only 332-428 of my supper calories would have point values. Which means that out of those 1101 calories, I would track only 452-593, or around half of them. And then, couldn't I be excused for thinking that I had space leftover to eat more? But in fact, whether WW tracks them or not, I've eaten anywhere from 450-600 calories more than I think I have.
That's one of the reasons I got fed up with WW. Their points have become more and more divorced from accurate calorie values with each "new" program rollout. I'd prefer to track everything and avoid 'hidden' calories.
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Esterdragonbat. I took at look at your diary, thanks for having that public. If you found a program that works for you that's great! Once you've been on the WW program long enough you memorize points for all foods. There are numerous success stories that have proven that their technique works. Any program works if you are willing to follow it. Good luck on your journey and I hope you find success!12
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And there's always the option of tracking it anyway even if it is zero. I'm not food or calorie blind because foods are zero. My diary is open. Not as exciting, but its all there.3
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I am on WW, I'm finding the new program very flexible. I ate TONS of 0 point foods, including: 2 eggs, grapes, apple, celery, lettuce, chicken breast. Within REASON you can eat these things, WW does not tell you to gorge yourself on 0 point foods. They make them 0 points because they know that people will not overdo them. I get 23 points a day, I dipped into my weeklies by 4. I calculated my calories to be around 1,450. I'm in a deficit by at least 500. Feeling good! They do demonize SATURATED FAT (not all Fat), and sugar but they are not off limits, you just have to ask yourself, is it really worth 15 points for a slice of cake...
im confused by this... does WW really think people only over do certain foods? No one over eats chicken? no one over eats eggs? All it takes for most people to be a little hungry at dinner time to add a second chicken breast to their plate or make a big plate of scrambled eggs..
Grapes.. if you sat down on the couch watching tv with the bag, i am pretty sure people would eat them the same as they would a bag of chips..
To think that only certain foods are over indulged on just proves to me how weight watchers is using that to further set people up for failure to keep the money rolling in.21 -
HellYeahItsKriss wrote: »I am on WW, I'm finding the new program very flexible. I ate TONS of 0 point foods, including: 2 eggs, grapes, apple, celery, lettuce, chicken breast. Within REASON you can eat these things, WW does not tell you to gorge yourself on 0 point foods. They make them 0 points because they know that people will not overdo them. I get 23 points a day, I dipped into my weeklies by 4. I calculated my calories to be around 1,450. I'm in a deficit by at least 500. Feeling good! They do demonize SATURATED FAT (not all Fat), and sugar but they are not off limits, you just have to ask yourself, is it really worth 15 points for a slice of cake...
im confused by this... does WW really think people only over do certain foods? No one over eats chicken? no one over eats eggs? All it takes for most people to be a little hungry at dinner time to add a second chicken breast to their plate or make a big plate of scrambled eggs..
Grapes.. if you sat down on the couch watching tv with the bag, i am pretty sure people would eat them the same as they would a bag of chips..
To think that only certain foods are over indulged on just proves to me how weight watchers is using that to further set people up for failure to keep the money rolling in.
From their site:
"Why have these foods been chosen to be zero Points® foods?
These foods form the basis of a healthy eating pattern. They are nutrient dense foods that can be enjoyed as part of a healthy eating plan. Our research shows that they do not pose a risk for overconsumption."
I can't access the list, but apparently salmon is on it. I'm in. I could eat salmon all day every day.
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Alatariel75 wrote: »HellYeahItsKriss wrote: »I am on WW, I'm finding the new program very flexible. I ate TONS of 0 point foods, including: 2 eggs, grapes, apple, celery, lettuce, chicken breast. Within REASON you can eat these things, WW does not tell you to gorge yourself on 0 point foods. They make them 0 points because they know that people will not overdo them. I get 23 points a day, I dipped into my weeklies by 4. I calculated my calories to be around 1,450. I'm in a deficit by at least 500. Feeling good! They do demonize SATURATED FAT (not all Fat), and sugar but they are not off limits, you just have to ask yourself, is it really worth 15 points for a slice of cake...
im confused by this... does WW really think people only over do certain foods? No one over eats chicken? no one over eats eggs? All it takes for most people to be a little hungry at dinner time to add a second chicken breast to their plate or make a big plate of scrambled eggs..
Grapes.. if you sat down on the couch watching tv with the bag, i am pretty sure people would eat them the same as they would a bag of chips..
To think that only certain foods are over indulged on just proves to me how weight watchers is using that to further set people up for failure to keep the money rolling in.
From their site:
"Why have these foods been chosen to be zero Points® foods?
These foods form the basis of a healthy eating pattern. They are nutrient dense foods that can be enjoyed as part of a healthy eating plan. Our research shows that they do not pose a risk for overconsumption."
I can't access the list, but apparently salmon is on it. I'm in. I could eat salmon all day every day.
... why.. why is there no face palm emoji lol
Lol.. so are pork chops on there too? or is lean pork different from lean chicken?
So.. I could have a chicken breast.. cause... its free and then i will eat all my free veggies and the only thing i have to count is potato? That whole meal wouldn't take up much of my points, so could i use more free foods later? is there a limit to the freebies at all since they are not at risk of over consumption?9 -
Here's a more fulsome list:
•Boneless skinless chicken breast
•Boneless skinless turkey breast
•Ground lean chicken
•Ground lean turkey
•Thin sliced deli chicken breast
•Thin sliced deli turkey breast
•All fish and shellfish (this does not include smoked or dried fish)
•Canned fish that is packed in water or brine (i.e. canned tuna or canned salmon in water)
•Tofu and smoked tofu
•Quorn fillets, ground Quorn, and Quorn pieces (meat substitute)
•Eggs
•Nonfat plain regular and Greek yogurt
•Plain soy yogurt
•Fresh, frozen, and canned beans and lentils that are packed without oil or sugar (Lentils, chickpeas, black beans, pinto beans, kidney beans, split peas, soy beans, and more)
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I agree, grapes are really good and I can really overdo them too....even on MFP!!! That is what I'm saying, each individual that follows the plan knows that you CANNOT eat a bucket of grapes and still lose weight. You still count points for other things, and trust me those points add up really quick if you choose a bunch of junk food. I ask you though, when you are in full binge eating mode, are you really going to want to eat grapes, eggs, dry grilled chicken breast and bananas? I know I wouldn't...I only eat those things when I truly am hungry. I didn't get fat eating fruit and dry chicken breast, I can guarantee you that.5
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suzannesimmons3 wrote: »spiriteagle99 wrote: »But who eats a whole pineapple? I love it, but that's a lot of food.
How do you think people get fat???
I seem to recall in my "getting fat" phase that I especially enjoyed eating the cake under the pineapple.19 -
It's a bizarre system but I guess if it works for some people... I definitely could overeat on grapes and used to all the time. They probably put it on there because if you do, then it's pretty much the same effect as overeating raisins or prunes... most people won't want to deal with that.
Definitely I could overeat on sliced deli turkey and chicken breast, and ham and roast beef. I used to do it all the time with the first three.0 -
I agree, grapes are really good and I can really overdo them too....even on MFP!!! That is what I'm saying, each individual that follows the plan knows that you CANNOT eat a bucket of grapes and still lose weight. You still count points for other things, and trust me those points add up really quick if you choose a bunch of junk food. I ask you though, when you are in full binge eating mode, are you really going to want to eat grapes, eggs, dry grilled chicken breast and bananas? I know I wouldn't...I only eat those things when I truly am hungry. I didn't get fat eating fruit and dry chicken breast, I can guarantee you that.
A true binge eater would binge on those things.
If someone told me chicken and fruit and veggies and tuna and turkey and everything else was free.. i would cook a whole damn turkey and sit down and eat that.20 -
Alatariel75 wrote: »Here's a more fulsome list:
•Boneless skinless chicken breast
•Boneless skinless turkey breast
•Ground lean chicken
•Ground lean turkey
•Thin sliced deli chicken breast
•Thin sliced deli turkey breast
•All fish and shellfish (this does not include smoked or dried fish)
•Canned fish that is packed in water or brine (i.e. canned tuna or canned salmon in water)
•Tofu and smoked tofu
•Quorn fillets, ground Quorn, and Quorn pieces (meat substitute)
•Eggs
•Nonfat plain regular and Greek yogurt
•Plain soy yogurt
•Fresh, frozen, and canned beans and lentils that are packed without oil or sugar (Lentils, chickpeas, black beans, pinto beans, kidney beans, split peas, soy beans, and more)
Wow.. that list is... LOL...9 -
I agree, grapes are really good and I can really overdo them too....even on MFP!!! That is what I'm saying, each individual that follows the plan knows that you CANNOT eat a bucket of grapes and still lose weight. You still count points for other things, and trust me those points add up really quick if you choose a bunch of junk food. I ask you though, when you are in full binge eating mode, are you really going to want to eat grapes, eggs, dry grilled chicken breast and bananas? I know I wouldn't...I only eat those things when I truly am hungry. I didn't get fat eating fruit and dry chicken breast, I can guarantee you that.
But there's a huge range in between "in a deficit" and "bingeing". Grapes, bananas, chicken breast, greek yogurt, eggs... these all have enough calories that if you eat each of them once during the day and eat a bit too much, it could add up. And there are days I eat over my calorie goal that EVERYTHING I eat is from that "free" list. I guess I don't understand how it's supposed to help if it's up to the dieter to monitor foods that could easily make up half or even more of their daily food.
I'm sorry if it seems like we're ganging up on you, it really is awesome if you are finding it works for you. I just think there are a lot of people who are overweight because they aren't good at knowing how much to eat who would get no help from that plan at all15 -
HellYeahItsKriss wrote: »I agree, grapes are really good and I can really overdo them too....even on MFP!!! That is what I'm saying, each individual that follows the plan knows that you CANNOT eat a bucket of grapes and still lose weight. You still count points for other things, and trust me those points add up really quick if you choose a bunch of junk food. I ask you though, when you are in full binge eating mode, are you really going to want to eat grapes, eggs, dry grilled chicken breast and bananas? I know I wouldn't...I only eat those things when I truly am hungry. I didn't get fat eating fruit and dry chicken breast, I can guarantee you that.
A true binge eater would binge on those things.
If someone told me chicken and fruit and veggies and tuna and turkey and everything else was free.. i would cook a whole damn turkey and sit down and eat that.
I can relate. I love turkey! I'm not a binge eater (I was told on another thread that a binge is not 500 calories or eating a whole bag of potato chips or a sleeve of crackers).
I've never done WW but it seems like they are assigning the points to junk and high calorie foods. I disagree that people cannot gain weight from eating whole foods--they can if they eat seconds at every dinner, even if they skip dessert and all the junkfood.1 -
now i have even more questions..
Since there is only about a 50 cal difference between 100g raw chicken and 100g raw pork chop.. why is pork chops not on the list? why are people more likely to over eat a pork chop? and whats a serving? if WW is against weighing and counting foods, then how do you know youre not going 50 calories over on chicken? if you do, does that remove it from the free food now?10 -
I don't feel ganged up on, not in the slightest. I am about to go to eat my 6 point ice cream and go to sleep though, so won't post anything after this.
They actually have a program for people that want to eat only on the "free" list and it's called simply filling....but considering that it's hard enough to explain to people WW I'm just going to leave it at that. 
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Alatariel75 wrote: »Here's a more fulsome list:
•Boneless skinless chicken breast
•Boneless skinless turkey breast
•Ground lean chicken
•Ground lean turkey
•Thin sliced deli chicken breast
•Thin sliced deli turkey breast
•All fish and shellfish (this does not include smoked or dried fish)
•Canned fish that is packed in water or brine (i.e. canned tuna or canned salmon in water)
•Tofu and smoked tofu
•Quorn fillets, ground Quorn, and Quorn pieces (meat substitute)
•Eggs
•Nonfat plain regular and Greek yogurt
•Plain soy yogurt
•Fresh, frozen, and canned beans and lentils that are packed without oil or sugar (Lentils, chickpeas, black beans, pinto beans, kidney beans, split peas, soy beans, and more)
Add fruit and vegetables to that list and so far only my rolled oats, corn thins and cottage cheese give me any points at all. Not bad when I have consumed over 800 calories so far. My next meal will be a couple of boiled eggs with more vegetables which is a 0 calorie meal. Plenty of room for that slice of cake with this plan, even if it takes me over maintenance calories.18 -
Esterdragonbat. I took at look at your diary, thanks for having that public. If you found a program that works for you that's great! Once you've been on the WW program long enough you memorize points for all foods. There are numerous success stories that have proven that their technique works. Any program works if you are willing to follow it. Good luck on your journey and I hope you find success!
Are those success stories from WW's current program? Or older versions?7 -
estherdragonbat wrote: »Esterdragonbat. I took at look at your diary, thanks for having that public. If you found a program that works for you that's great! Once you've been on the WW program long enough you memorize points for all foods. There are numerous success stories that have proven that their technique works. Any program works if you are willing to follow it. Good luck on your journey and I hope you find success!
Are those success stories from WW's current program? Or older versions?
The new program just started today, so I will assume she's referring to the previous ones. I lost the majority of my 70 lbs on previous WW programs. They're still off. I came here for financial reasons, plus for the comraderie since I don't attend meetings.5 -
I've lost on earlier versions, too. It just seemed to me like with every iteration, the programs became less effective for me. I don't doubt that they've been successful in the past. I dropped about the same amount you did, except that I got bored, stopped going to meetings, and it crept back up. (I don't blame them for that). My question was raised because I think it's a little misleading for the PP to rave about the current program and point to "numerous success stories that have proven that their technique works" when those people were successful on earlier programs.9
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estherdragonbat wrote: »I've lost on earlier versions, too. It just seemed to me like with every iteration, the programs became less effective for me. I don't doubt that they've been successful in the past. I dropped about the same amount you did, except that I got bored, stopped going to meetings, and it crept back up. (I don't blame them for that). My question was raised because I think it's a little misleading for the PP to rave about the current program and point to "numerous success stories that have proven that their technique works" when those people were successful on earlier programs.
True. It is too early to determine success of something on its Day One. From what I understand WW does run trials on existing members before releasing programs, but I
haven't heard anything official on those results. I hated Smart Points with a passion. So far Day One was okay. I plan on weighing, measuring, and logging everything because food was eaten, it must be accounted for even if their system registers it as zero. So I'm double tracking for now. I have no time for meetings, and boredom happens. I guess that's another reason for switching up programs. I'm trying WW again because I wanted to see if the new plan was simpler.1 -
Alatariel75 wrote: »HellYeahItsKriss wrote: »I am on WW, I'm finding the new program very flexible. I ate TONS of 0 point foods, including: 2 eggs, grapes, apple, celery, lettuce, chicken breast. Within REASON you can eat these things, WW does not tell you to gorge yourself on 0 point foods. They make them 0 points because they know that people will not overdo them. I get 23 points a day, I dipped into my weeklies by 4. I calculated my calories to be around 1,450. I'm in a deficit by at least 500. Feeling good! They do demonize SATURATED FAT (not all Fat), and sugar but they are not off limits, you just have to ask yourself, is it really worth 15 points for a slice of cake...
im confused by this... does WW really think people only over do certain foods? No one over eats chicken? no one over eats eggs? All it takes for most people to be a little hungry at dinner time to add a second chicken breast to their plate or make a big plate of scrambled eggs..
Grapes.. if you sat down on the couch watching tv with the bag, i am pretty sure people would eat them the same as they would a bag of chips..
To think that only certain foods are over indulged on just proves to me how weight watchers is using that to further set people up for failure to keep the money rolling in.
From their site:
"Why have these foods been chosen to be zero Points® foods?
These foods form the basis of a healthy eating pattern. They are nutrient dense foods that can be enjoyed as part of a healthy eating plan. Our research shows that they do not pose a risk for overconsumption."
I can't access the list, but apparently salmon is on it. I'm in. I could eat salmon all day every day.
Bahahahaha, I have two grape vines in my backyard. You just watch me overconsume those suckers next Feb/March!11 -
lol I eat 8-12 oz of chicken (or pork loin) when I have it for meals (almost every day). That’s a looooot of free calories...5
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I admit, I baked 3 chicken breasts the other week for lunches, then ate all 3 over the course of the afternoon, dipping them on hot sauce. Apparently that's 0 points...11
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Alatariel75 wrote: »Here's a more fulsome list:
•Boneless skinless chicken breast
•Boneless skinless turkey breast
•Ground lean chicken
•Ground lean turkey
•Thin sliced deli chicken breast
•Thin sliced deli turkey breast
•All fish and shellfish (this does not include smoked or dried fish)
•Canned fish that is packed in water or brine (i.e. canned tuna or canned salmon in water)
•Tofu and smoked tofu
•Quorn fillets, ground Quorn, and Quorn pieces (meat substitute)
•Eggs
•Nonfat plain regular and Greek yogurt
•Plain soy yogurt
•Fresh, frozen, and canned beans and lentils that are packed without oil or sugar (Lentils, chickpeas, black beans, pinto beans, kidney beans, split peas, soy beans, and more)
That list makes me sad.
It sounds like a torturer's dream for all those poor souls thinking they have to suffer to lose weight.7 -
Nony_Mouse wrote: »Alatariel75 wrote: »HellYeahItsKriss wrote: »I am on WW, I'm finding the new program very flexible. I ate TONS of 0 point foods, including: 2 eggs, grapes, apple, celery, lettuce, chicken breast. Within REASON you can eat these things, WW does not tell you to gorge yourself on 0 point foods. They make them 0 points because they know that people will not overdo them. I get 23 points a day, I dipped into my weeklies by 4. I calculated my calories to be around 1,450. I'm in a deficit by at least 500. Feeling good! They do demonize SATURATED FAT (not all Fat), and sugar but they are not off limits, you just have to ask yourself, is it really worth 15 points for a slice of cake...
im confused by this... does WW really think people only over do certain foods? No one over eats chicken? no one over eats eggs? All it takes for most people to be a little hungry at dinner time to add a second chicken breast to their plate or make a big plate of scrambled eggs..
Grapes.. if you sat down on the couch watching tv with the bag, i am pretty sure people would eat them the same as they would a bag of chips..
To think that only certain foods are over indulged on just proves to me how weight watchers is using that to further set people up for failure to keep the money rolling in.
From their site:
"Why have these foods been chosen to be zero Points® foods?
These foods form the basis of a healthy eating pattern. They are nutrient dense foods that can be enjoyed as part of a healthy eating plan. Our research shows that they do not pose a risk for overconsumption."
I can't access the list, but apparently salmon is on it. I'm in. I could eat salmon all day every day.
Bahahahaha, I have two grape vines in my backyard. You just watch me overconsume those suckers next Feb/March!
Season's done for the year here. Thank goodness too! There's nothing like picking grapes from the vine and eating them still warm from the sun. I have a few days (well okay... make that weeks) where I have 1-2kg of grapes in my dairy. Per day. As in: there's a serving of those suckers with every single meal and snack. And as a snack of its own. That's anywhere between 690 and 1380kcals per day on just grapes. Granted. On those days where I fed myself with 2kg of grapes I'd only have protein as a side (cottage cheese or plain yoghurt or plain chicken breast), but still. Without logging and tracking, that could easily have been 1K+ over my maintenance.2
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