Has Weight Watchers gone insane?
Replies
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I joined WW on December 10th after about a year of mixed Jenny Craig and MFP calorie counting.
As of last week I have lost 11 pounds. This was with a few Holiday slips.
In the beginning I was double tracking with the WW tools and MFP. My calorie count was coming in at around 1200, perfect for me. After awhile I was confident that this WW thing was working and I gave it all up to Freestyle.
Yes, you do have to be aware and mindful but it is an absolute joy having a big bowl of zero-point turkey, bean and vegetable chili and not agonizing over calories or points. Cooking is wonderful---start with zero point foods and build from there, tracking only the foods that have points.
As always, fats and carbs are point-heavy.
I am the happiest that I have ever been with a food plan since I started Freestyle. I am not weighing and measuring and tracking every single stinking bit of food that I put in my mouth and it is immensely liberating.
Best thing---it's working!!
Not all carbs are point heavy though, as all free fruits are mostly simple carbs.
In what is probably my last WW meeting today, the leader said the zero points system does not allow for the inclusion of essential and good fats and essential and good carbs. Those require a points hit. But everyone seems to be bent on eating zero points total or zero points then saving the rest for treats.5 -
BruinsGal_91 wrote: »Nony_Mouse wrote: »
Me too. I did WW in the 90s and it was the 1-2-3 Success program. As far as I can remember the points were based on calories and fat, and only fruit and veg were zero points. I've still got some of the recipe books and the little cardboard points calculator. You were given extra points for exercise (I used all mine on beer). Looking at my progress during the time I was doing it, the weight came off very, very slowly. Too much beer and 'free' foods I guess.
Were we in the same WW meetings in the Boston area in the late 90's haha j/k.
I used my exercise points for beer too because that's how I stayed sane until I totally fell off the wagon. Got down to 174 on my wedding day. Man I would love to be there again. Slowly but surely!0 -
estherdragonbat wrote: »suzannesimmons3 wrote: »spiriteagle99 wrote: »But who eats a whole pineapple? I love it, but that's a lot of food.
How do you think people get fat???
Maybe it's a blessing that, while I can enjoy pineapple in moderation, too much gives me cankers, then.
Too much makes my tongue burn. Same with kiwi fruit!0 -
I notice Oprah isn't looking too slim in her commercials, and the food they are showing, well, cupcakes? Even though the cupcakes are tiny, tiny, still, I wouldn't recommend eating them every day, empty calories. Really, losing weight and keeping it off is so much a lifestyle change, bottom line. Everything said about lifestyle change is totally right on. A person has to decide, do I really want to go back to eating the way I did that got me fat in the first place, or do I want to give up that instant gratification and still stick to my plan?7
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millcreekr wrote: »I notice Oprah isn't looking too slim in her commercials, and the food they are showing, well, cupcakes? Even though the cupcakes are tiny, tiny, still, I wouldn't recommend eating them every day, empty calories. Really, losing weight and keeping it off is so much a lifestyle change, bottom line. Everything said about lifestyle change is totally right on. A person has to decide, do I really want to go back to eating the way I did that got me fat in the first place, or do I want to give up that instant gratification and still stick to my plan?
Can't the same be said about this plan? How many members eat cookies, desserts, pizza, wine, etc, almost daily, count calories for it, and still lose weight? As for how Oprah looks, she has always looked like that. She lost weight slowly. No dramatic weight loss for her since she signed on with WW. Doesn't mean that she failed or the program didn't work for her.6 -
I had a ww person who kept saying fat makes people fat so I bought low fat everything and ending up getting no where cause of the sugar they added to replace the fat.4
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Marykaylady2010 wrote: »I had a ww person who kept saying fat makes people fat so I bought low fat everything and ending up getting no where cause of the sugar they added to replace the fat.
Sugar doesn't make you fat either. Too many calories makes you fat.
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For me at least glassyo, sugar is addictive so I see Marykaylady2's point. Some of WW - not very nice anyway - cakes, are almost 50% sugar.7
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Thats weird, I could eat a dozen eggs and half a chicken by myself tbh. I used to eat half watermelons to myself, bag of shrimp. lol How tf aren't these considered risky to overeat?3
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For me at least glassyo, sugar is addictive so I see Marykaylady2's point. Some of WW - not very nice anyway - cakes, are almost 50% sugar.
Im not sure that's how marykaylady2010 meant it but I get that too. I love my carbs. It still doesn't mean it was the actual sugar (or any kind of carby goodness for me or cake for you) that hindered weight loss or caused weight gain. It was eating at or over our calorie goals. Addiction is more of a personal obstacle.
For what it's worth, I lost all of my weight averaging 300 grams of carbs a day and definitely not being afraid of sugar just fine. And, yes, I've used the word addicted too.
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millcreekr wrote: »I notice Oprah isn't looking too slim in her commercials, and the food they are showing, well, cupcakes? Even though the cupcakes are tiny, tiny, still, I wouldn't recommend eating them every day, empty calories. Really, losing weight and keeping it off is so much a lifestyle change, bottom line. Everything said about lifestyle change is totally right on. A person has to decide, do I really want to go back to eating the way I did that got me fat in the first place, or do I want to give up that instant gratification and still stick to my plan?
When I eat cupcakes, they usually contain carbohydrates and fat, two macronutrients my body can use for energy. I don't consider them empty calories, although they certainly can be calorie-dense.
The way I got fat was eating more calories than my body was using. Yes, that sometimes included cupcakes, but it also included pineapple, rice, tomatoes, walnuts, and dozens of other foods. I don't see the need to eliminate any of them just because I used to suck at determining proper portions for my body's needs.
As far as Oprah's weight, we're talking about a woman who has struggled with her weight virtually her entire public life and has tried a variety of different plans. I wouldn't conclude that a plan wouldn't work simply because Oprah didn't achieve someone's personal standards of slenderness on it. That would result in us discounting dozens and dozens of plans, including calorie counting (which I believe she has also tried). Sometimes people don't succeed on a perfectly reasonable plan. Sometimes people make slow progress. And sometimes people define "success" as a higher goal weight than we personally would.15 -
Many congratulations on you weight loss, you have done wonderfully well. As to sugar, I know that I cannot eat only one square of chocolate, I eat the whole bar, I don't think fat or the coco bean is addictive so can only blame the sugar. I have been known to eat a whole carrot cake, even though in the course of eating, I realize I'm no longer enjoying it. And not only carrot cake...For me at least glassyo, sugar is addictive so I see Marykaylady2's point. Some of WW - not very nice anyway - cakes, are almost 50% sugar.
Im not sure that's how marykaylady2010 meant it but I get that too. I love my carbs. It still doesn't mean it was the actual sugar (or any kind of carby goodness for me or cake for you) that hindered weight loss or caused weight gain. It was eating at or over our calorie goals. Addiction is more of a personal obstacle.
For what it's worth, I lost all of my weight averaging 300 grams of carbs a day and definitely not being afraid of sugar just fine. And, yes, I've used the word addicted too.
I'm sure I'm not alone in my addiction to sweet things, things made with sugar. Snow white and addictive.12 -
Many congratulations on you weight loss, you have done wonderfully well. As to sugar, I know that I cannot eat only one square of chocolate, I eat the whole bar, I don't think fat or the coco bean is addictive so can only blame the sugar. I have been known to eat a whole carrot cake, even though in the course of eating, I realize I'm no longer enjoying it. And not only carrot cake...For me at least glassyo, sugar is addictive so I see Marykaylady2's point. Some of WW - not very nice anyway - cakes, are almost 50% sugar.
Im not sure that's how marykaylady2010 meant it but I get that too. I love my carbs. It still doesn't mean it was the actual sugar (or any kind of carby goodness for me or cake for you) that hindered weight loss or caused weight gain. It was eating at or over our calorie goals. Addiction is more of a personal obstacle.
For what it's worth, I lost all of my weight averaging 300 grams of carbs a day and definitely not being afraid of sugar just fine. And, yes, I've used the word addicted too.
I'm sure I'm not alone in my addiction to sweet things, things made with sugar. Snow white and addictive.
Some people do find it difficult to moderate fat or cocoa beans though. That doesn't necessarily mean that any food is addictive, it just means that some people find it more difficult to moderate foods they find particularly delicious and that certain foods can be more of a challenge to these people than others. Creating a pathology of this by attaching claims of "addiction" doesn't really seem necessary to me.
I find it very challenging to control my consumption of foods with coconut fat, to the point that I sometimes crave just plain coconut oil and would eat it with a spoon. Does that mean that fat is addictive or that coconut fat is somehow uniquely addictive (I don't feel this way about eating, for example, olive oil)? Or does it mean that different people will experience the struggle to moderate delicious things around different foods?9 -
Many congratulations on you weight loss, you have done wonderfully well. As to sugar, I know that I cannot eat only one square of chocolate, I eat the whole bar, I don't think fat or the coco bean is addictive so can only blame the sugar. I have been known to eat a whole carrot cake, even though in the course of eating, I realize I'm no longer enjoying it. And not only carrot cake...For me at least glassyo, sugar is addictive so I see Marykaylady2's point. Some of WW - not very nice anyway - cakes, are almost 50% sugar.
Im not sure that's how marykaylady2010 meant it but I get that too. I love my carbs. It still doesn't mean it was the actual sugar (or any kind of carby goodness for me or cake for you) that hindered weight loss or caused weight gain. It was eating at or over our calorie goals. Addiction is more of a personal obstacle.
For what it's worth, I lost all of my weight averaging 300 grams of carbs a day and definitely not being afraid of sugar just fine. And, yes, I've used the word addicted too.
I'm sure I'm not alone in my addiction to sweet things, things made with sugar. Snow white and addictive.
Why do you not think it's the fat? Or the hyper-palatable combo of sugar & fat?
Most of the foods I have trouble moderating are fat-heavy : nuts and seeds, premium ice cream, chicken wings, cheese. I don't think it's addictive though, I just really like it and need to be mindful.5 -
Lol, only the ice cream would call to me and tempt me from the freezer. Perhaps you're right and I may just have to tighten my resolve. The only way for me is just don't buy anything that I know contains sugar. Yet I keep sugar in the house for any visitor who adds it to tea or coffee.
Many congratulations on you weight loss, you have done wonderfully well. As to sugar, I know that I cannot eat only one square of chocolate, I eat the whole bar, I don't think fat or the coco bean is addictive so can only blame the sugar. I have been known to eat a whole carrot cake, even though in the course of eating, I realize I'm no longer enjoying it. And not only carrot cake...For me at least glassyo, sugar is addictive so I see Marykaylady2's point. Some of WW - not very nice anyway - cakes, are almost 50% sugar.
Im not sure that's how marykaylady2010 meant it but I get that too. I love my carbs. It still doesn't mean it was the actual sugar (or any kind of carby goodness for me or cake for you) that hindered weight loss or caused weight gain. It was eating at or over our calorie goals. Addiction is more of a personal obstacle.
For what it's worth, I lost all of my weight averaging 300 grams of carbs a day and definitely not being afraid of sugar just fine. And, yes, I've used the word addicted too.
I'm sure I'm not alone in my addiction to sweet things, things made with sugar. Snow white and addictive.
Why do you not think it's the fat? Or the hyper-palatable combo of sugar & fat?
Most of the foods I have trouble moderating are fat-heavy : nuts and seeds, premium ice cream, chicken wings, cheese. I don't think it's addictive though, I just really like it and need to be mindful.1 -
Marykaylady2010 wrote: »I had a ww person who kept saying fat makes people fat so I bought low fat everything and ending up getting no where cause of the sugar they added to replace the fat.
I've said for the longest time- "low fat" is probably the worst thing that ever happened to this country. It's really effed up peoples ability to make good choices and suss out what they need. Demonizing fat- and now carbs- it's just making life really complicated when it doesn't need to be.12 -
I thought it was crazy too. Chicken breasts are free! My friend is doing the new program and I thought he had it wrong, it was not possible that they are free... but I looked it up and they are... It would only take 5 chicken breasts, and nothing else the entire day, to put me over. How can that be CICO?3
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I have been on WW for years and have always questioned their math - here is the last straw!
The new "Freestyle plan" says beans, including chickpeas are 0 points.....BUT..... wait for it... if you roast them with nothing more than spices, they have points! HUH??? Why I asked them - "because you can overeat those" - REALLY??? I can eat beans straight from the can for 0 points but if I roast them it changes?? This makes NO sense. They still have calories!!!6 -
I'm not sure which is more comical, WW or the Special K nourish/feed it campaign. Special K, the corn/grain "diet" wasn't working. Wow, who could have seen that feeding lots of grains doesn't work for weight loss! So Special K stopped calling it a diet and now their commercials are "feed it"... I think it's just WW's way of giving in and saying, "it's not a diet" so more people join. Profits over reality.2
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Agreed, MikePfirrman, they are desperate because their profits a losing so much weight they're nearly at starvation level.1
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newheavensearth wrote: »I joined WW on December 10th after about a year of mixed Jenny Craig and MFP calorie counting.
As of last week I have lost 11 pounds. This was with a few Holiday slips.
In the beginning I was double tracking with the WW tools and MFP. My calorie count was coming in at around 1200, perfect for me. After awhile I was confident that this WW thing was working and I gave it all up to Freestyle.
Yes, you do have to be aware and mindful but it is an absolute joy having a big bowl of zero-point turkey, bean and vegetable chili and not agonizing over calories or points. Cooking is wonderful---start with zero point foods and build from there, tracking only the foods that have points.
As always, fats and carbs are point-heavy.
I am the happiest that I have ever been with a food plan since I started Freestyle. I am not weighing and measuring and tracking every single stinking bit of food that I put in my mouth and it is immensely liberating.
Best thing---it's working!!
Not all carbs are point heavy though, as all free fruits are mostly simple carbs.
In what is probably my last WW meeting today, the leader said the zero points system does not allow for the inclusion of essential and good fats and essential and good carbs. Those require a points hit. But everyone seems to be bent on eating zero points total or zero points then saving the rest for treats.
Yeah. WW doesn't get the glycemic index, that carbs can be simple carbs or complex carbs. Which for diabetics/pre-diabetics for instance, matters a bunch because your blood sugar rises faster with simple carbs than with complex carb foods. which in turn plays a role in your blood insulin levels.
Simple carbs or any carbs in extreme excess plays a role in fat storing and higher than normal triglyceride levels..
WW seems to be dumbing down their program to sell it to the masses, saying this freestyle diet is so easy you can eat all you want of even some high calorie foods.
A whole bunch of woo going on with that program imo, I just don't see this working for too many people as the program seems not based on science in so many ways. Yes WW is insane, jumping the shark to sell their program.
I left because of the so called free fruits years ago with the momentum program, and I certainly know that free carbs is another step down the wrong path for many ww members.3 -
I share the concern here, but my husband is on it and has already lost six lbs. BUT he is doing it sensibly and not gorging on a can of Beans or a stack of chicken breast for lunch. And let's be honest, anyone doing that and surprised they put on weight is clueless.
I'm doing CICO and I also cook our dinners. He eats a zero point lunch and then I do a 400-500 calorie dinner for us, and it works for both of us. His lunches used to be awful with chips and chips ahoy cookies, so now he's doing chicken salad wraps with a banana. So it is a major improvement for him.
So yes, the new program lacks guardrails to measure and weigh everything, and can lead to excess if done stupidly, but it can work it you apply common sense. I am shocked at how many points a tablespoon of olive oil has though, or a kind bar has...but it's working for him. But I see alot of obsessive weighing and measuring on here and question how healthy that is, unless you truly are not able to tell an appropriate serving size, which I didn't when I first started this.5 -
jbrown2339 wrote: »I share the concern here, but my husband is on it and has already lost six lbs. BUT he is doing it sensibly and not gorging on a can of Beans or a stack of chicken breast for lunch. And let's be honest, anyone doing that and surprised they put on weight is clueless.
I'm doing CICO and I also cook our dinners. He eats a zero point lunch and then I do a 400-500 calorie dinner for us, and it works for both of us. His lunches used to be awful with chips and chips ahoy cookies, so now he's doing chicken salad wraps with a banana. So it is a major improvement for him.
So yes, the new program lacks guardrails to measure and weigh everything, and can lead to excess if done stupidly, but it can work it you apply common sense. I am shocked at how many points a tablespoon of olive oil has though, or a kind bar has...but it's working for him. But I see alot of obsessive weighing and measuring on here and question how healthy that is, unless you truly are not able to tell an appropriate serving size, which I didn't when I first started this.
I would say that weighing and measuring is only unhealthy if it is making someone unhappy or interfering with the quality of their life. As a behavior, I think it is no more inherently troubling than, say, creating a lunch out of arbitrarily selected "zero point foods."
It's just a tool that works for some people, just like zero point lunches may work for others.
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suzannesimmons3 wrote: »You think that's mad..
Look into slimming world....
I shudder every time my colleague tells me she has had 3 eggs each meal because they 'are free'! And I used to do Slimming World and say these things to myself!!1 -
I thought it was crazy too. Chicken breasts are free! My friend is doing the new program and I thought he had it wrong, it was not possible that they are free... but I looked it up and they are... It would only take 5 chicken breasts, and nothing else the entire day, to put me over. How can that be CICO?
Sure, but would you? And even if you did, would you do it again the next day? What about the next? I’m eating more meat lately than I usually do because I’m doing keto, and even just one chicken breast, cooked dry, gets really freaking boring by the end. I’d imagine it’s the same with a lot of the new free foods: you could absolutely binge on them for a day or two, but it would get old fast.
You have to be really committed to overdo it on these foods without adding oil, butter, or cheese and keep it up on a daily basis. And I don’t think that a few crazy days of eating too much plain chicken are likely to undo a long-term lifestyle change, so while I do have some issues with some of the choices that went into the new plan, I don’t think it’s as inherently catastrophic as a lot of posters seem to believe.6 -
I joined WW in 2006 after years and years of failed weight loss attempts. I sat in meetings surrounded by amazing, inspiring people who lost hundreds of pounds or were on their way. I lost 70 pounds "on program" and loved thinking about food in a more simple, quick way than counting calories. I advocated for that program wherever I went. I kept the weight off, too, And then I joined again recently (mostly just hoping to find like-minded fitness friends. I only had a few pounds I wanted to lose). The whole system had changed. Everything had gotten so complicated, rules for this, exceptions for that. You couldn't figure anything out without the app. Counting calories would be easier. I sat in meetings with despondent members who spent years on the program and were nowhere near their goal. It sounds like it's changed again, and is failing worse.
However. I succeeded when their whole premise was based around the filling effect of fiber. In recent years "carbs" have been so demonized they probably lost membership due to masses of people afraid to eat a carb. They are trying to keep up with the times while holding on to their design structure. I LOVED having "free" food. It saved me. I have a lot of hunger and grew up eating in volume. I literally ate 6 cups of vegetable soup a day for 6 months. It was "free" and it helped fill me up. I lost 2 pounds a week. No way I'd succeed eating 6 chicken breasts a day.3 -
FlyingMolly wrote: »I thought it was crazy too. Chicken breasts are free! My friend is doing the new program and I thought he had it wrong, it was not possible that they are free... but I looked it up and they are... It would only take 5 chicken breasts, and nothing else the entire day, to put me over. How can that be CICO?
Sure, but would you? And even if you did, would you do it again the next day? What about the next? I’m eating more meat lately than I usually do because I’m doing keto, and even just one chicken breast, cooked dry, gets really freaking boring by the end. I’d imagine it’s the same with a lot of the new free foods: you could absolutely binge on them for a day or two, but it would get old fast.
You have to be really committed to overdo it on these foods without adding oil, butter, or cheese and keep it up on a daily basis. And I don’t think that a few crazy days of eating too much plain chicken are likely to undo a long-term lifestyle change, so while I do have some issues with some of the choices that went into the new plan, I don’t think it’s as inherently catastrophic as a lot of posters seem to believe.
I have to agree with this.
When I initially heard about the new program I thought "I could gain weight eating those 'free' foods!"
But after further thought, yes, I would have to be really committed to do that, and it's very unlikely for me personally to over eat any of those foods. I have zero desire to actually eat a dozen eggs or bananas, etc. Especially plain. Not even when I go off the rails and eat whatever.
I see what they are trying to do - "gently guide you to 'healthier' options" by making those free.. and for me it might actually encourage me to eat more fruits and veggies.
But a 200 calorie donut, for example, would equate to almost half your daily points. Which is just ridiculous.3 -
i could eat a whole pineapple. you people are amateurs.13
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Alatariel75 wrote: »I am off work the first week of January. I know I'll be feeling like getting over some of the overindulgences from Christmas, and I'm tempted to do a week of nothing but foods from that list, and reporting back.
and the Aussie "no smoked fish" thing is stupid - I smoke my own fish, it's no different to baking it. What's the issue. And I agree with Kriss on the pork v chicken question, lean pork is barely more calories than chicken.
And holy hell, the price! I thought that $35 a month for online was actually pretty reasonable and better than I remembered, then I realised it was a one-month-only 50% off deal - $70 a month for online and an app? I can get a gym membership for that...
And just to be clear, I'm a WWer from way back, through every incarnation - Classic, Fat n Fibre, Points, Smart Points, Simply Filling... it just gets further and further from the nice simple program it was.
Ya, I was thinking of joining WW when I was in Florida and saw ads for it to be @ $28 a month. Then I moved back to Mass where it cost considerably more, which annoyed me. And then my sister told me about MFP, which I like better than the WW I did in the 90s anyway.
However, this thread has got me curious about how I'd do on the free foods plus points system...0 -
jbrown2339 wrote: »I share the concern here, but my husband is on it and has already lost six lbs. BUT he is doing it sensibly and not gorging on a can of Beans or a stack of chicken breast for lunch. And let's be honest, anyone doing that and surprised they put on weight is clueless.
I'm doing CICO and I also cook our dinners. He eats a zero point lunch and then I do a 400-500 calorie dinner for us, and it works for both of us. His lunches used to be awful with chips and chips ahoy cookies, so now he's doing chicken salad wraps with a banana. So it is a major improvement for him.
So yes, the new program lacks guardrails to measure and weigh everything, and can lead to excess if done stupidly, but it can work it you apply common sense. I am shocked at how many points a tablespoon of olive oil has though, or a kind bar has...but it's working for him. But I see alot of obsessive weighing and measuring on here and question how healthy that is, unless you truly are not able to tell an appropriate serving size, which I didn't when I first started this.
When I was on WW momentum we weighed and measured our foods to convert to points. Heck, I still use the ww food scale I bought back then.
Why now, is measuring your food intake a bad thing as your post seems to suggest. Athletes do it to improve their athletic performances. Diabetics measure their food intake to help keep their blood glucose controlled. And bariatric patients are often told to log and measure their food intake to lose weight.
WW sold products (like cookbooks, calculators, food scales) for years where if used correctly, were to be used to measure your food intake?
The woo leaves many questions. As to why are some foods measured and some foods free (not measured) with the freestyle program.
The new program scientifically is not a rational scheme. The new program imo is a program ww uses to make money. I get this freestyle program works for some, but my guess is plenty of folks will find this freestyle program not helpful to them.
The proof will be in the proverbial pudding. If members quit. Or members have significant gains or stalls while trying to do freestyle exactly as it is written.
The tried and true method of measuring your food intake, excercise intakes still remains the gold standard for weight management. Apps like mfp are a tool to do that.3
This discussion has been closed.
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