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Commentary: What Thin People Don't Get About Dieting
Replies
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GaleHawkins wrote: »If over weight/obesity is not a metabolic disorder why are MD's telling people to lose weight? Are they all quacks now?
Okay, now I know you are just messing with everyone.
Being overweight carries a number of health risks, you know that. It isn't a metabolic disorder that is making people fat, and you know that, too.14 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »If over weight/obesity is not a metabolic disorder why are MD's telling people to lose weight? Are they all quacks now?
Seriously???? Did you even read the responses above??
It is not a metabolic disorder because the system - your body - is doing EXACTLY what evolution has adapted it to do for thousands of years!11 -
WinoGelato wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »Wheelhouse15 wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »Christine_72 wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »SuzySunshine99 wrote: »http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opinion/commentary/ct-perspec-thin-people-dieting-weight-food-resolutions-0101-20171227-story.html
I am not sure what made me more mad when I saw this commentary piece in the Chicago Tribune this morning....
The statement that "cutting calories alone doesn't lead to long-term weight loss".
The myth that there are "naturally thin" people who just have good genetics and high metabolism.
Or, the conclusion that if you are overweight, you do not have any chance of losing weight long term so you shouldn't even try.
So angry right now....
I'd like to hear everyone's thoughts on this dreary op-ed article.
Not sure there are 'skinny' genes but it is true in a functional sense that cutting calories does not lead to long term weight loss for most people that I have ever known including myself.
Finally at the age of 63 I decided to NEVER go on another diet to lose weight just to have another 100%+ regain. Now turning 67 I have lost 50 pounds and maintained that loss for over two and half years by changing the kind of calories that I eat.
Cutting calories can be a short term fix in an emergency but it is not likely to fix the cause of the wrong way of thinking, eating and moving that lead to the need to go on a "diet" in the first place.
For over three years now I have eaten only to improve my health and health markers. When I did that the weight started to normalize (decrease) after the first 45 days without any dieting effort yet staying stuffed most of the time.
Thinking about losing weight seems to be a good way to gain weight for many people it seems perhaps.
And do you know why your weight decreased? Because you were taking in less calories than you were burning. Whether you viewed what you were doing as cutting calories or not, that is exactly what you were doing if you lost weight. I'm sure you will spout all sorts of nonsense to try to explain otherwise, because that is what you do best around here, but the simple fact is your weight is directly affected by CICO.
Do you know why I was taking in less calories when starting Oct 2014 (and still continue to eat that way today) cold turkey I cut add sugars and all forms of all grains that over time has resolved my binging, pain, IBS, limited health in general, etc?
Did I know going LCHF Oct 2014 would functionally give me hope for a future? NO I did not but I was willing to try anything to avoid the medical side effects of starting on Enbrel injections Nov 2014. I did not even know what I was doing but just acting to a hunch that cutting out the sugar and grain that I might be able to dodge the Enbrel bullet coming my way. I added about a 1000 calories daily at the same time from coconut products trying to prevent Alzheimer's.
That is how out of ignorance I accidently started the LCHF WOE. As noted before I had to leave sugar and grains cold turkey after trying to taper off of them for 60 days and failing. I learned I was a carb addict then I realized I was going to have to stop eat food containing added sugar and any form of any grain instead of just reducing these highly processed carb food sources.
As I have stated for years how one eats is their own business and how I eat is my business. At the age of 63 I willfully decided to eat for longer life instead of eating for a premature death.
Yep, there's the long, drawn out, nonsense explanation I was expecting and forgive me, but I am having trouble following. You say you were taking in less calories, but then say you added about 1000 calories a day at the same time. So which is it? Were you taking in less calories or more? Were the 1000 calories of coconut products included in your daily total which was less than before? If so, then it I have some news for you: it wasn't the fact that you were taking coconut products that helped you lose weight, it is the fact that you were taking in less calories overall. You could have been ingesting 1000 calories of pure sugar instead of coconut, and as long as your CI were less than your CO you would lose weight. You found something that worked for you which is great, but it blows my mind how you still try to argue that your weight loss was somehow not attributed to a caloric deficit. The fact of the matter is, what worked for you was eating at a deficit, and just because you don't view it that way, it doesn't make it any less true.
CICO will never medically explain why some people overeat.
No, but it will explain why they gain/lose weight. Lack of willpower and CICO are 2 completely different things.
Would you agree 100% of people who legally log into these MFP forums already know it is calories or lack of calories from the food they eat that causes them to gain/lose weight?
People need to know WHY they under/over eat and it has nothing to do with willpower long term. People that use willpower to lose weight are called yo-yo dieters.
Are we really back to the 'everyone who is overweight has a physical or mental disorder' argument?
No. It is a metabolic disorder medically speaking.
Being overweight is not a metabolic disorder for the vast majority as their bodies are reacting exactly as designed i.e. seek food, and gain weight for the famine or illness that will come. We have only been in a food rich society for a blink of an eye.
Then what kind of disorder is being overweight?
It isn't a disorder. The body is processing excess calories the way it was designed - by storing them as fat.
Calling it a "Disorder" suggests that a system is functioning outside of the norm, it is not working properly - but weight gain as result of consuming more energy than the system requires is not a malfunction of the system.
If you have a cup, and you fill it with water such that it overflows, it is neither the design of the cup nor the fault of the liquid that you now have a mess to clean up. The cup holds what it holds. The act of you overfilling it does not mean that the cup is malfunctioning.
Yeah, but, like, you totally didn't address WHY someone would fill the cup until it overflowed. Until we nail that, we'll live in water-drenched anarchy.
Like Waterworld?
If only someone had told them to stop filling the damned cup.13 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »If over weight/obesity is not a metabolic disorder why are MD's telling people to lose weight? Are they all quacks now?
Because being overweight causes other physiological issues?
8 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »If over weight/obesity is not a metabolic disorder why are MD's telling people to lose weight? Are they all quacks now?
A metabolic disorder would mean that something isn't working right...ie you have something going on which is resulting in metabolic issues like hypo or hyperthyroidism...those are metabolic disorders.
Being overweight can be unhealthy and lead to any number of health issues and increase one's risk of health issues...but being overweight isn't a metabolic disorder...for most people it is a result of eating well beyond what is necessary, not something wrong with their metabolism.10 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »Wheelhouse15 wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »Christine_72 wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »SuzySunshine99 wrote: »http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opinion/commentary/ct-perspec-thin-people-dieting-weight-food-resolutions-0101-20171227-story.html
I am not sure what made me more mad when I saw this commentary piece in the Chicago Tribune this morning....
The statement that "cutting calories alone doesn't lead to long-term weight loss".
The myth that there are "naturally thin" people who just have good genetics and high metabolism.
Or, the conclusion that if you are overweight, you do not have any chance of losing weight long term so you shouldn't even try.
So angry right now....
I'd like to hear everyone's thoughts on this dreary op-ed article.
Not sure there are 'skinny' genes but it is true in a functional sense that cutting calories does not lead to long term weight loss for most people that I have ever known including myself.
Finally at the age of 63 I decided to NEVER go on another diet to lose weight just to have another 100%+ regain. Now turning 67 I have lost 50 pounds and maintained that loss for over two and half years by changing the kind of calories that I eat.
Cutting calories can be a short term fix in an emergency but it is not likely to fix the cause of the wrong way of thinking, eating and moving that lead to the need to go on a "diet" in the first place.
For over three years now I have eaten only to improve my health and health markers. When I did that the weight started to normalize (decrease) after the first 45 days without any dieting effort yet staying stuffed most of the time.
Thinking about losing weight seems to be a good way to gain weight for many people it seems perhaps.
And do you know why your weight decreased? Because you were taking in less calories than you were burning. Whether you viewed what you were doing as cutting calories or not, that is exactly what you were doing if you lost weight. I'm sure you will spout all sorts of nonsense to try to explain otherwise, because that is what you do best around here, but the simple fact is your weight is directly affected by CICO.
Do you know why I was taking in less calories when starting Oct 2014 (and still continue to eat that way today) cold turkey I cut add sugars and all forms of all grains that over time has resolved my binging, pain, IBS, limited health in general, etc?
Did I know going LCHF Oct 2014 would functionally give me hope for a future? NO I did not but I was willing to try anything to avoid the medical side effects of starting on Enbrel injections Nov 2014. I did not even know what I was doing but just acting to a hunch that cutting out the sugar and grain that I might be able to dodge the Enbrel bullet coming my way. I added about a 1000 calories daily at the same time from coconut products trying to prevent Alzheimer's.
That is how out of ignorance I accidently started the LCHF WOE. As noted before I had to leave sugar and grains cold turkey after trying to taper off of them for 60 days and failing. I learned I was a carb addict then I realized I was going to have to stop eat food containing added sugar and any form of any grain instead of just reducing these highly processed carb food sources.
As I have stated for years how one eats is their own business and how I eat is my business. At the age of 63 I willfully decided to eat for longer life instead of eating for a premature death.
Yep, there's the long, drawn out, nonsense explanation I was expecting and forgive me, but I am having trouble following. You say you were taking in less calories, but then say you added about 1000 calories a day at the same time. So which is it? Were you taking in less calories or more? Were the 1000 calories of coconut products included in your daily total which was less than before? If so, then it I have some news for you: it wasn't the fact that you were taking coconut products that helped you lose weight, it is the fact that you were taking in less calories overall. You could have been ingesting 1000 calories of pure sugar instead of coconut, and as long as your CI were less than your CO you would lose weight. You found something that worked for you which is great, but it blows my mind how you still try to argue that your weight loss was somehow not attributed to a caloric deficit. The fact of the matter is, what worked for you was eating at a deficit, and just because you don't view it that way, it doesn't make it any less true.
CICO will never medically explain why some people overeat.
No, but it will explain why they gain/lose weight. Lack of willpower and CICO are 2 completely different things.
Would you agree 100% of people who legally log into these MFP forums already know it is calories or lack of calories from the food they eat that causes them to gain/lose weight?
People need to know WHY they under/over eat and it has nothing to do with willpower long term. People that use willpower to lose weight are called yo-yo dieters.
Are we really back to the 'everyone who is overweight has a physical or mental disorder' argument?
No. It is a metabolic disorder medically speaking.
Being overweight is not a metabolic disorder for the vast majority as their bodies are reacting exactly as designed i.e. seek food, and gain weight for the famine or illness that will come. We have only been in a food rich society for a blink of an eye.
Then what kind of disorder is being overweight?
How is it a disorder if the body is working as intended? It causes disorders if you carry too much fat for too long but seems to me it's hardly a disorder when the body does what it was designed to actually do. The problem is that we aren't used to being in an abundant food environment. Our biggest issue is sedentary lifestyle coupled with too much food that leads people to overeat for their requirements. I have always disagreed with the disease model of obesity, in and of itself, unless it is caused by a medical condition. It's a condition, not a disorder or disease.11 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »If over weight/obesity is not a metabolic disorder why are MD's telling people to lose weight? Are they all quacks now?
InigoMontoya.gif7 -
WinoGelato wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »Wheelhouse15 wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »Christine_72 wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »SuzySunshine99 wrote: »http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opinion/commentary/ct-perspec-thin-people-dieting-weight-food-resolutions-0101-20171227-story.html
I am not sure what made me more mad when I saw this commentary piece in the Chicago Tribune this morning....
The statement that "cutting calories alone doesn't lead to long-term weight loss".
The myth that there are "naturally thin" people who just have good genetics and high metabolism.
Or, the conclusion that if you are overweight, you do not have any chance of losing weight long term so you shouldn't even try.
So angry right now....
I'd like to hear everyone's thoughts on this dreary op-ed article.
Not sure there are 'skinny' genes but it is true in a functional sense that cutting calories does not lead to long term weight loss for most people that I have ever known including myself.
Finally at the age of 63 I decided to NEVER go on another diet to lose weight just to have another 100%+ regain. Now turning 67 I have lost 50 pounds and maintained that loss for over two and half years by changing the kind of calories that I eat.
Cutting calories can be a short term fix in an emergency but it is not likely to fix the cause of the wrong way of thinking, eating and moving that lead to the need to go on a "diet" in the first place.
For over three years now I have eaten only to improve my health and health markers. When I did that the weight started to normalize (decrease) after the first 45 days without any dieting effort yet staying stuffed most of the time.
Thinking about losing weight seems to be a good way to gain weight for many people it seems perhaps.
And do you know why your weight decreased? Because you were taking in less calories than you were burning. Whether you viewed what you were doing as cutting calories or not, that is exactly what you were doing if you lost weight. I'm sure you will spout all sorts of nonsense to try to explain otherwise, because that is what you do best around here, but the simple fact is your weight is directly affected by CICO.
Do you know why I was taking in less calories when starting Oct 2014 (and still continue to eat that way today) cold turkey I cut add sugars and all forms of all grains that over time has resolved my binging, pain, IBS, limited health in general, etc?
Did I know going LCHF Oct 2014 would functionally give me hope for a future? NO I did not but I was willing to try anything to avoid the medical side effects of starting on Enbrel injections Nov 2014. I did not even know what I was doing but just acting to a hunch that cutting out the sugar and grain that I might be able to dodge the Enbrel bullet coming my way. I added about a 1000 calories daily at the same time from coconut products trying to prevent Alzheimer's.
That is how out of ignorance I accidently started the LCHF WOE. As noted before I had to leave sugar and grains cold turkey after trying to taper off of them for 60 days and failing. I learned I was a carb addict then I realized I was going to have to stop eat food containing added sugar and any form of any grain instead of just reducing these highly processed carb food sources.
As I have stated for years how one eats is their own business and how I eat is my business. At the age of 63 I willfully decided to eat for longer life instead of eating for a premature death.
Yep, there's the long, drawn out, nonsense explanation I was expecting and forgive me, but I am having trouble following. You say you were taking in less calories, but then say you added about 1000 calories a day at the same time. So which is it? Were you taking in less calories or more? Were the 1000 calories of coconut products included in your daily total which was less than before? If so, then it I have some news for you: it wasn't the fact that you were taking coconut products that helped you lose weight, it is the fact that you were taking in less calories overall. You could have been ingesting 1000 calories of pure sugar instead of coconut, and as long as your CI were less than your CO you would lose weight. You found something that worked for you which is great, but it blows my mind how you still try to argue that your weight loss was somehow not attributed to a caloric deficit. The fact of the matter is, what worked for you was eating at a deficit, and just because you don't view it that way, it doesn't make it any less true.
CICO will never medically explain why some people overeat.
No, but it will explain why they gain/lose weight. Lack of willpower and CICO are 2 completely different things.
Would you agree 100% of people who legally log into these MFP forums already know it is calories or lack of calories from the food they eat that causes them to gain/lose weight?
People need to know WHY they under/over eat and it has nothing to do with willpower long term. People that use willpower to lose weight are called yo-yo dieters.
Are we really back to the 'everyone who is overweight has a physical or mental disorder' argument?
No. It is a metabolic disorder medically speaking.
Being overweight is not a metabolic disorder for the vast majority as their bodies are reacting exactly as designed i.e. seek food, and gain weight for the famine or illness that will come. We have only been in a food rich society for a blink of an eye.
Then what kind of disorder is being overweight?
It isn't a disorder. The body is processing excess calories the way it was designed - by storing them as fat.
Calling it a "Disorder" suggests that a system is functioning outside of the norm, it is not working properly - but weight gain as result of consuming more energy than the system requires is not a malfunction of the system.
If you have a cup, and you fill it with water such that it overflows, it is neither the design of the cup nor the fault of the liquid that you now have a mess to clean up. The cup holds what it holds. The act of you overfilling it does not mean that the cup is malfunctioning.
Yeah, but, like, you totally didn't address WHY someone would fill the cup until it overflowed. Until we nail that, we'll live in water-drenched anarchy.
Please not that, Water World sucked.
2 -
Gale, you have a highly irritating habit of applying a meaning that is not standard to a phrase, and then using it like it's common vernacular. Being fat is not, of itself, a metabolic disorder, no matter how much you want it to be.
Doctors (rightfully) tell people to lose weight because it is fraught with health issues.20 -
Wheelhouse15 wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »Wheelhouse15 wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »Christine_72 wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »SuzySunshine99 wrote: »http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opinion/commentary/ct-perspec-thin-people-dieting-weight-food-resolutions-0101-20171227-story.html
I am not sure what made me more mad when I saw this commentary piece in the Chicago Tribune this morning....
The statement that "cutting calories alone doesn't lead to long-term weight loss".
The myth that there are "naturally thin" people who just have good genetics and high metabolism.
Or, the conclusion that if you are overweight, you do not have any chance of losing weight long term so you shouldn't even try.
So angry right now....
I'd like to hear everyone's thoughts on this dreary op-ed article.
Not sure there are 'skinny' genes but it is true in a functional sense that cutting calories does not lead to long term weight loss for most people that I have ever known including myself.
Finally at the age of 63 I decided to NEVER go on another diet to lose weight just to have another 100%+ regain. Now turning 67 I have lost 50 pounds and maintained that loss for over two and half years by changing the kind of calories that I eat.
Cutting calories can be a short term fix in an emergency but it is not likely to fix the cause of the wrong way of thinking, eating and moving that lead to the need to go on a "diet" in the first place.
For over three years now I have eaten only to improve my health and health markers. When I did that the weight started to normalize (decrease) after the first 45 days without any dieting effort yet staying stuffed most of the time.
Thinking about losing weight seems to be a good way to gain weight for many people it seems perhaps.
And do you know why your weight decreased? Because you were taking in less calories than you were burning. Whether you viewed what you were doing as cutting calories or not, that is exactly what you were doing if you lost weight. I'm sure you will spout all sorts of nonsense to try to explain otherwise, because that is what you do best around here, but the simple fact is your weight is directly affected by CICO.
Do you know why I was taking in less calories when starting Oct 2014 (and still continue to eat that way today) cold turkey I cut add sugars and all forms of all grains that over time has resolved my binging, pain, IBS, limited health in general, etc?
Did I know going LCHF Oct 2014 would functionally give me hope for a future? NO I did not but I was willing to try anything to avoid the medical side effects of starting on Enbrel injections Nov 2014. I did not even know what I was doing but just acting to a hunch that cutting out the sugar and grain that I might be able to dodge the Enbrel bullet coming my way. I added about a 1000 calories daily at the same time from coconut products trying to prevent Alzheimer's.
That is how out of ignorance I accidently started the LCHF WOE. As noted before I had to leave sugar and grains cold turkey after trying to taper off of them for 60 days and failing. I learned I was a carb addict then I realized I was going to have to stop eat food containing added sugar and any form of any grain instead of just reducing these highly processed carb food sources.
As I have stated for years how one eats is their own business and how I eat is my business. At the age of 63 I willfully decided to eat for longer life instead of eating for a premature death.
Yep, there's the long, drawn out, nonsense explanation I was expecting and forgive me, but I am having trouble following. You say you were taking in less calories, but then say you added about 1000 calories a day at the same time. So which is it? Were you taking in less calories or more? Were the 1000 calories of coconut products included in your daily total which was less than before? If so, then it I have some news for you: it wasn't the fact that you were taking coconut products that helped you lose weight, it is the fact that you were taking in less calories overall. You could have been ingesting 1000 calories of pure sugar instead of coconut, and as long as your CI were less than your CO you would lose weight. You found something that worked for you which is great, but it blows my mind how you still try to argue that your weight loss was somehow not attributed to a caloric deficit. The fact of the matter is, what worked for you was eating at a deficit, and just because you don't view it that way, it doesn't make it any less true.
CICO will never medically explain why some people overeat.
No, but it will explain why they gain/lose weight. Lack of willpower and CICO are 2 completely different things.
Would you agree 100% of people who legally log into these MFP forums already know it is calories or lack of calories from the food they eat that causes them to gain/lose weight?
People need to know WHY they under/over eat and it has nothing to do with willpower long term. People that use willpower to lose weight are called yo-yo dieters.
Are we really back to the 'everyone who is overweight has a physical or mental disorder' argument?
No. It is a metabolic disorder medically speaking.
Being overweight is not a metabolic disorder for the vast majority as their bodies are reacting exactly as designed i.e. seek food, and gain weight for the famine or illness that will come. We have only been in a food rich society for a blink of an eye.
Then what kind of disorder is being overweight?
How is it a disorder if the body is working as intended? It causes disorders if you carry too much fat for too long but seems to me it's hardly a disorder when the body does what it was designed to actually do. The problem is that we aren't used to being in an abundant food environment. Our biggest issue is sedentary lifestyle coupled with too much food that leads people to overeat for their requirements. I have always disagreed with the disease model of obesity, in and of itself, unless it is caused by a medical condition. It's a condition, not a disorder or disease.
The problem is that if it is a condition and not a disease, it is not sexy and people cannot get funding to wage wars against the dreaded obesity disease...6 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »If over weight/obesity is not a metabolic disorder why are MD's telling people to lose weight? Are they all quacks now?
Nope, if it was a medical disorder why would a doctor tell you go lose weight rather than give you a medical solution? The issue is that the overabundance of fat, particularly visceral fat, is metabolically active and release hormones that cause health issues. Of course, you do know this.13 -
Wheelhouse15 wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »Wheelhouse15 wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »Christine_72 wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »SuzySunshine99 wrote: »http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opinion/commentary/ct-perspec-thin-people-dieting-weight-food-resolutions-0101-20171227-story.html
I am not sure what made me more mad when I saw this commentary piece in the Chicago Tribune this morning....
The statement that "cutting calories alone doesn't lead to long-term weight loss".
The myth that there are "naturally thin" people who just have good genetics and high metabolism.
Or, the conclusion that if you are overweight, you do not have any chance of losing weight long term so you shouldn't even try.
So angry right now....
I'd like to hear everyone's thoughts on this dreary op-ed article.
Not sure there are 'skinny' genes but it is true in a functional sense that cutting calories does not lead to long term weight loss for most people that I have ever known including myself.
Finally at the age of 63 I decided to NEVER go on another diet to lose weight just to have another 100%+ regain. Now turning 67 I have lost 50 pounds and maintained that loss for over two and half years by changing the kind of calories that I eat.
Cutting calories can be a short term fix in an emergency but it is not likely to fix the cause of the wrong way of thinking, eating and moving that lead to the need to go on a "diet" in the first place.
For over three years now I have eaten only to improve my health and health markers. When I did that the weight started to normalize (decrease) after the first 45 days without any dieting effort yet staying stuffed most of the time.
Thinking about losing weight seems to be a good way to gain weight for many people it seems perhaps.
And do you know why your weight decreased? Because you were taking in less calories than you were burning. Whether you viewed what you were doing as cutting calories or not, that is exactly what you were doing if you lost weight. I'm sure you will spout all sorts of nonsense to try to explain otherwise, because that is what you do best around here, but the simple fact is your weight is directly affected by CICO.
Do you know why I was taking in less calories when starting Oct 2014 (and still continue to eat that way today) cold turkey I cut add sugars and all forms of all grains that over time has resolved my binging, pain, IBS, limited health in general, etc?
Did I know going LCHF Oct 2014 would functionally give me hope for a future? NO I did not but I was willing to try anything to avoid the medical side effects of starting on Enbrel injections Nov 2014. I did not even know what I was doing but just acting to a hunch that cutting out the sugar and grain that I might be able to dodge the Enbrel bullet coming my way. I added about a 1000 calories daily at the same time from coconut products trying to prevent Alzheimer's.
That is how out of ignorance I accidently started the LCHF WOE. As noted before I had to leave sugar and grains cold turkey after trying to taper off of them for 60 days and failing. I learned I was a carb addict then I realized I was going to have to stop eat food containing added sugar and any form of any grain instead of just reducing these highly processed carb food sources.
As I have stated for years how one eats is their own business and how I eat is my business. At the age of 63 I willfully decided to eat for longer life instead of eating for a premature death.
Yep, there's the long, drawn out, nonsense explanation I was expecting and forgive me, but I am having trouble following. You say you were taking in less calories, but then say you added about 1000 calories a day at the same time. So which is it? Were you taking in less calories or more? Were the 1000 calories of coconut products included in your daily total which was less than before? If so, then it I have some news for you: it wasn't the fact that you were taking coconut products that helped you lose weight, it is the fact that you were taking in less calories overall. You could have been ingesting 1000 calories of pure sugar instead of coconut, and as long as your CI were less than your CO you would lose weight. You found something that worked for you which is great, but it blows my mind how you still try to argue that your weight loss was somehow not attributed to a caloric deficit. The fact of the matter is, what worked for you was eating at a deficit, and just because you don't view it that way, it doesn't make it any less true.
CICO will never medically explain why some people overeat.
No, but it will explain why they gain/lose weight. Lack of willpower and CICO are 2 completely different things.
Would you agree 100% of people who legally log into these MFP forums already know it is calories or lack of calories from the food they eat that causes them to gain/lose weight?
People need to know WHY they under/over eat and it has nothing to do with willpower long term. People that use willpower to lose weight are called yo-yo dieters.
Are we really back to the 'everyone who is overweight has a physical or mental disorder' argument?
No. It is a metabolic disorder medically speaking.
Being overweight is not a metabolic disorder for the vast majority as their bodies are reacting exactly as designed i.e. seek food, and gain weight for the famine or illness that will come. We have only been in a food rich society for a blink of an eye.
Then what kind of disorder is being overweight?
How is it a disorder if the body is working as intended? It causes disorders if you carry too much fat for too long but seems to me it's hardly a disorder when the body does what it was designed to actually do. The problem is that we aren't used to being in an abundant food environment. Our biggest issue is sedentary lifestyle coupled with too much food that leads people to overeat for their requirements. I have always disagreed with the disease model of obesity, in and of itself, unless it is caused by a medical condition. It's a condition, not a disorder or disease.
The problem is that if it is a condition and not a disease, it is not sexy and people cannot get funding to wage wars against the dreaded obesity disease...
...and if it’s not some kind of disorder, people can’t justify their fad diets and woo if the exact same results could be accomplished by something as simple as a reasonable caloric restriction. No, there simply must be more to it than that.9 -
Wheelhouse15 wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »Wheelhouse15 wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »Christine_72 wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »SuzySunshine99 wrote: »http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opinion/commentary/ct-perspec-thin-people-dieting-weight-food-resolutions-0101-20171227-story.html
I am not sure what made me more mad when I saw this commentary piece in the Chicago Tribune this morning....
The statement that "cutting calories alone doesn't lead to long-term weight loss".
The myth that there are "naturally thin" people who just have good genetics and high metabolism.
Or, the conclusion that if you are overweight, you do not have any chance of losing weight long term so you shouldn't even try.
So angry right now....
I'd like to hear everyone's thoughts on this dreary op-ed article.
Not sure there are 'skinny' genes but it is true in a functional sense that cutting calories does not lead to long term weight loss for most people that I have ever known including myself.
Finally at the age of 63 I decided to NEVER go on another diet to lose weight just to have another 100%+ regain. Now turning 67 I have lost 50 pounds and maintained that loss for over two and half years by changing the kind of calories that I eat.
Cutting calories can be a short term fix in an emergency but it is not likely to fix the cause of the wrong way of thinking, eating and moving that lead to the need to go on a "diet" in the first place.
For over three years now I have eaten only to improve my health and health markers. When I did that the weight started to normalize (decrease) after the first 45 days without any dieting effort yet staying stuffed most of the time.
Thinking about losing weight seems to be a good way to gain weight for many people it seems perhaps.
And do you know why your weight decreased? Because you were taking in less calories than you were burning. Whether you viewed what you were doing as cutting calories or not, that is exactly what you were doing if you lost weight. I'm sure you will spout all sorts of nonsense to try to explain otherwise, because that is what you do best around here, but the simple fact is your weight is directly affected by CICO.
Do you know why I was taking in less calories when starting Oct 2014 (and still continue to eat that way today) cold turkey I cut add sugars and all forms of all grains that over time has resolved my binging, pain, IBS, limited health in general, etc?
Did I know going LCHF Oct 2014 would functionally give me hope for a future? NO I did not but I was willing to try anything to avoid the medical side effects of starting on Enbrel injections Nov 2014. I did not even know what I was doing but just acting to a hunch that cutting out the sugar and grain that I might be able to dodge the Enbrel bullet coming my way. I added about a 1000 calories daily at the same time from coconut products trying to prevent Alzheimer's.
That is how out of ignorance I accidently started the LCHF WOE. As noted before I had to leave sugar and grains cold turkey after trying to taper off of them for 60 days and failing. I learned I was a carb addict then I realized I was going to have to stop eat food containing added sugar and any form of any grain instead of just reducing these highly processed carb food sources.
As I have stated for years how one eats is their own business and how I eat is my business. At the age of 63 I willfully decided to eat for longer life instead of eating for a premature death.
Yep, there's the long, drawn out, nonsense explanation I was expecting and forgive me, but I am having trouble following. You say you were taking in less calories, but then say you added about 1000 calories a day at the same time. So which is it? Were you taking in less calories or more? Were the 1000 calories of coconut products included in your daily total which was less than before? If so, then it I have some news for you: it wasn't the fact that you were taking coconut products that helped you lose weight, it is the fact that you were taking in less calories overall. You could have been ingesting 1000 calories of pure sugar instead of coconut, and as long as your CI were less than your CO you would lose weight. You found something that worked for you which is great, but it blows my mind how you still try to argue that your weight loss was somehow not attributed to a caloric deficit. The fact of the matter is, what worked for you was eating at a deficit, and just because you don't view it that way, it doesn't make it any less true.
CICO will never medically explain why some people overeat.
No, but it will explain why they gain/lose weight. Lack of willpower and CICO are 2 completely different things.
Would you agree 100% of people who legally log into these MFP forums already know it is calories or lack of calories from the food they eat that causes them to gain/lose weight?
People need to know WHY they under/over eat and it has nothing to do with willpower long term. People that use willpower to lose weight are called yo-yo dieters.
Are we really back to the 'everyone who is overweight has a physical or mental disorder' argument?
No. It is a metabolic disorder medically speaking.
Being overweight is not a metabolic disorder for the vast majority as their bodies are reacting exactly as designed i.e. seek food, and gain weight for the famine or illness that will come. We have only been in a food rich society for a blink of an eye.
Then what kind of disorder is being overweight?
How is it a disorder if the body is working as intended? It causes disorders if you carry too much fat for too long but seems to me it's hardly a disorder when the body does what it was designed to actually do. The problem is that we aren't used to being in an abundant food environment. Our biggest issue is sedentary lifestyle coupled with too much food that leads people to overeat for their requirements. I have always disagreed with the disease model of obesity, in and of itself, unless it is caused by a medical condition. It's a condition, not a disorder or disease.
The problem is that if it is a condition and not a disease, it is not sexy and people cannot get funding to wage wars against the dreaded obesity disease...
Yes, we need to always have a war against something lol.3 -
Wheelhouse15 wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »Wheelhouse15 wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »Christine_72 wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »SuzySunshine99 wrote: »http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opinion/commentary/ct-perspec-thin-people-dieting-weight-food-resolutions-0101-20171227-story.html
I am not sure what made me more mad when I saw this commentary piece in the Chicago Tribune this morning....
The statement that "cutting calories alone doesn't lead to long-term weight loss".
The myth that there are "naturally thin" people who just have good genetics and high metabolism.
Or, the conclusion that if you are overweight, you do not have any chance of losing weight long term so you shouldn't even try.
So angry right now....
I'd like to hear everyone's thoughts on this dreary op-ed article.
Not sure there are 'skinny' genes but it is true in a functional sense that cutting calories does not lead to long term weight loss for most people that I have ever known including myself.
Finally at the age of 63 I decided to NEVER go on another diet to lose weight just to have another 100%+ regain. Now turning 67 I have lost 50 pounds and maintained that loss for over two and half years by changing the kind of calories that I eat.
Cutting calories can be a short term fix in an emergency but it is not likely to fix the cause of the wrong way of thinking, eating and moving that lead to the need to go on a "diet" in the first place.
For over three years now I have eaten only to improve my health and health markers. When I did that the weight started to normalize (decrease) after the first 45 days without any dieting effort yet staying stuffed most of the time.
Thinking about losing weight seems to be a good way to gain weight for many people it seems perhaps.
And do you know why your weight decreased? Because you were taking in less calories than you were burning. Whether you viewed what you were doing as cutting calories or not, that is exactly what you were doing if you lost weight. I'm sure you will spout all sorts of nonsense to try to explain otherwise, because that is what you do best around here, but the simple fact is your weight is directly affected by CICO.
Do you know why I was taking in less calories when starting Oct 2014 (and still continue to eat that way today) cold turkey I cut add sugars and all forms of all grains that over time has resolved my binging, pain, IBS, limited health in general, etc?
Did I know going LCHF Oct 2014 would functionally give me hope for a future? NO I did not but I was willing to try anything to avoid the medical side effects of starting on Enbrel injections Nov 2014. I did not even know what I was doing but just acting to a hunch that cutting out the sugar and grain that I might be able to dodge the Enbrel bullet coming my way. I added about a 1000 calories daily at the same time from coconut products trying to prevent Alzheimer's.
That is how out of ignorance I accidently started the LCHF WOE. As noted before I had to leave sugar and grains cold turkey after trying to taper off of them for 60 days and failing. I learned I was a carb addict then I realized I was going to have to stop eat food containing added sugar and any form of any grain instead of just reducing these highly processed carb food sources.
As I have stated for years how one eats is their own business and how I eat is my business. At the age of 63 I willfully decided to eat for longer life instead of eating for a premature death.
Yep, there's the long, drawn out, nonsense explanation I was expecting and forgive me, but I am having trouble following. You say you were taking in less calories, but then say you added about 1000 calories a day at the same time. So which is it? Were you taking in less calories or more? Were the 1000 calories of coconut products included in your daily total which was less than before? If so, then it I have some news for you: it wasn't the fact that you were taking coconut products that helped you lose weight, it is the fact that you were taking in less calories overall. You could have been ingesting 1000 calories of pure sugar instead of coconut, and as long as your CI were less than your CO you would lose weight. You found something that worked for you which is great, but it blows my mind how you still try to argue that your weight loss was somehow not attributed to a caloric deficit. The fact of the matter is, what worked for you was eating at a deficit, and just because you don't view it that way, it doesn't make it any less true.
CICO will never medically explain why some people overeat.
No, but it will explain why they gain/lose weight. Lack of willpower and CICO are 2 completely different things.
Would you agree 100% of people who legally log into these MFP forums already know it is calories or lack of calories from the food they eat that causes them to gain/lose weight?
People need to know WHY they under/over eat and it has nothing to do with willpower long term. People that use willpower to lose weight are called yo-yo dieters.
Are we really back to the 'everyone who is overweight has a physical or mental disorder' argument?
No. It is a metabolic disorder medically speaking.
Being overweight is not a metabolic disorder for the vast majority as their bodies are reacting exactly as designed i.e. seek food, and gain weight for the famine or illness that will come. We have only been in a food rich society for a blink of an eye.
Then what kind of disorder is being overweight?
It isn't a disorder. The body is processing excess calories the way it was designed - by storing them as fat.
Calling it a "Disorder" suggests that a system is functioning outside of the norm, it is not working properly - but weight gain as result of consuming more energy than the system requires is not a malfunction of the system.
If you have a cup, and you fill it with water such that it overflows, it is neither the design of the cup nor the fault of the liquid that you now have a mess to clean up. The cup holds what it holds. The act of you overfilling it does not mean that the cup is malfunctioning.
Yeah, but, like, you totally didn't address WHY someone would fill the cup until it overflowed. Until we nail that, we'll live in water-drenched anarchy.
Please not that, Water World sucked.
It didn't suck; it just has a cinematic disorder.35 -
i liked water world.2
-
Wheelhouse15 wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »Wheelhouse15 wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »Christine_72 wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »SuzySunshine99 wrote: »http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opinion/commentary/ct-perspec-thin-people-dieting-weight-food-resolutions-0101-20171227-story.html
I am not sure what made me more mad when I saw this commentary piece in the Chicago Tribune this morning....
The statement that "cutting calories alone doesn't lead to long-term weight loss".
The myth that there are "naturally thin" people who just have good genetics and high metabolism.
Or, the conclusion that if you are overweight, you do not have any chance of losing weight long term so you shouldn't even try.
So angry right now....
I'd like to hear everyone's thoughts on this dreary op-ed article.
Not sure there are 'skinny' genes but it is true in a functional sense that cutting calories does not lead to long term weight loss for most people that I have ever known including myself.
Finally at the age of 63 I decided to NEVER go on another diet to lose weight just to have another 100%+ regain. Now turning 67 I have lost 50 pounds and maintained that loss for over two and half years by changing the kind of calories that I eat.
Cutting calories can be a short term fix in an emergency but it is not likely to fix the cause of the wrong way of thinking, eating and moving that lead to the need to go on a "diet" in the first place.
For over three years now I have eaten only to improve my health and health markers. When I did that the weight started to normalize (decrease) after the first 45 days without any dieting effort yet staying stuffed most of the time.
Thinking about losing weight seems to be a good way to gain weight for many people it seems perhaps.
And do you know why your weight decreased? Because you were taking in less calories than you were burning. Whether you viewed what you were doing as cutting calories or not, that is exactly what you were doing if you lost weight. I'm sure you will spout all sorts of nonsense to try to explain otherwise, because that is what you do best around here, but the simple fact is your weight is directly affected by CICO.
Do you know why I was taking in less calories when starting Oct 2014 (and still continue to eat that way today) cold turkey I cut add sugars and all forms of all grains that over time has resolved my binging, pain, IBS, limited health in general, etc?
Did I know going LCHF Oct 2014 would functionally give me hope for a future? NO I did not but I was willing to try anything to avoid the medical side effects of starting on Enbrel injections Nov 2014. I did not even know what I was doing but just acting to a hunch that cutting out the sugar and grain that I might be able to dodge the Enbrel bullet coming my way. I added about a 1000 calories daily at the same time from coconut products trying to prevent Alzheimer's.
That is how out of ignorance I accidently started the LCHF WOE. As noted before I had to leave sugar and grains cold turkey after trying to taper off of them for 60 days and failing. I learned I was a carb addict then I realized I was going to have to stop eat food containing added sugar and any form of any grain instead of just reducing these highly processed carb food sources.
As I have stated for years how one eats is their own business and how I eat is my business. At the age of 63 I willfully decided to eat for longer life instead of eating for a premature death.
Yep, there's the long, drawn out, nonsense explanation I was expecting and forgive me, but I am having trouble following. You say you were taking in less calories, but then say you added about 1000 calories a day at the same time. So which is it? Were you taking in less calories or more? Were the 1000 calories of coconut products included in your daily total which was less than before? If so, then it I have some news for you: it wasn't the fact that you were taking coconut products that helped you lose weight, it is the fact that you were taking in less calories overall. You could have been ingesting 1000 calories of pure sugar instead of coconut, and as long as your CI were less than your CO you would lose weight. You found something that worked for you which is great, but it blows my mind how you still try to argue that your weight loss was somehow not attributed to a caloric deficit. The fact of the matter is, what worked for you was eating at a deficit, and just because you don't view it that way, it doesn't make it any less true.
CICO will never medically explain why some people overeat.
No, but it will explain why they gain/lose weight. Lack of willpower and CICO are 2 completely different things.
Would you agree 100% of people who legally log into these MFP forums already know it is calories or lack of calories from the food they eat that causes them to gain/lose weight?
People need to know WHY they under/over eat and it has nothing to do with willpower long term. People that use willpower to lose weight are called yo-yo dieters.
Are we really back to the 'everyone who is overweight has a physical or mental disorder' argument?
No. It is a metabolic disorder medically speaking.
Being overweight is not a metabolic disorder for the vast majority as their bodies are reacting exactly as designed i.e. seek food, and gain weight for the famine or illness that will come. We have only been in a food rich society for a blink of an eye.
Then what kind of disorder is being overweight?
It isn't a disorder. The body is processing excess calories the way it was designed - by storing them as fat.
Calling it a "Disorder" suggests that a system is functioning outside of the norm, it is not working properly - but weight gain as result of consuming more energy than the system requires is not a malfunction of the system.
If you have a cup, and you fill it with water such that it overflows, it is neither the design of the cup nor the fault of the liquid that you now have a mess to clean up. The cup holds what it holds. The act of you overfilling it does not mean that the cup is malfunctioning.
Yeah, but, like, you totally didn't address WHY someone would fill the cup until it overflowed. Until we nail that, we'll live in water-drenched anarchy.
Please not that, Water World sucked.
It didn't suck; it just has a cinematic disorder.
Nah, it was working as designed lol.
7 -
Wheelhouse15 wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »Wheelhouse15 wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »Christine_72 wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »SuzySunshine99 wrote: »http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opinion/commentary/ct-perspec-thin-people-dieting-weight-food-resolutions-0101-20171227-story.html
I am not sure what made me more mad when I saw this commentary piece in the Chicago Tribune this morning....
The statement that "cutting calories alone doesn't lead to long-term weight loss".
The myth that there are "naturally thin" people who just have good genetics and high metabolism.
Or, the conclusion that if you are overweight, you do not have any chance of losing weight long term so you shouldn't even try.
So angry right now....
I'd like to hear everyone's thoughts on this dreary op-ed article.
Not sure there are 'skinny' genes but it is true in a functional sense that cutting calories does not lead to long term weight loss for most people that I have ever known including myself.
Finally at the age of 63 I decided to NEVER go on another diet to lose weight just to have another 100%+ regain. Now turning 67 I have lost 50 pounds and maintained that loss for over two and half years by changing the kind of calories that I eat.
Cutting calories can be a short term fix in an emergency but it is not likely to fix the cause of the wrong way of thinking, eating and moving that lead to the need to go on a "diet" in the first place.
For over three years now I have eaten only to improve my health and health markers. When I did that the weight started to normalize (decrease) after the first 45 days without any dieting effort yet staying stuffed most of the time.
Thinking about losing weight seems to be a good way to gain weight for many people it seems perhaps.
And do you know why your weight decreased? Because you were taking in less calories than you were burning. Whether you viewed what you were doing as cutting calories or not, that is exactly what you were doing if you lost weight. I'm sure you will spout all sorts of nonsense to try to explain otherwise, because that is what you do best around here, but the simple fact is your weight is directly affected by CICO.
Do you know why I was taking in less calories when starting Oct 2014 (and still continue to eat that way today) cold turkey I cut add sugars and all forms of all grains that over time has resolved my binging, pain, IBS, limited health in general, etc?
Did I know going LCHF Oct 2014 would functionally give me hope for a future? NO I did not but I was willing to try anything to avoid the medical side effects of starting on Enbrel injections Nov 2014. I did not even know what I was doing but just acting to a hunch that cutting out the sugar and grain that I might be able to dodge the Enbrel bullet coming my way. I added about a 1000 calories daily at the same time from coconut products trying to prevent Alzheimer's.
That is how out of ignorance I accidently started the LCHF WOE. As noted before I had to leave sugar and grains cold turkey after trying to taper off of them for 60 days and failing. I learned I was a carb addict then I realized I was going to have to stop eat food containing added sugar and any form of any grain instead of just reducing these highly processed carb food sources.
As I have stated for years how one eats is their own business and how I eat is my business. At the age of 63 I willfully decided to eat for longer life instead of eating for a premature death.
Yep, there's the long, drawn out, nonsense explanation I was expecting and forgive me, but I am having trouble following. You say you were taking in less calories, but then say you added about 1000 calories a day at the same time. So which is it? Were you taking in less calories or more? Were the 1000 calories of coconut products included in your daily total which was less than before? If so, then it I have some news for you: it wasn't the fact that you were taking coconut products that helped you lose weight, it is the fact that you were taking in less calories overall. You could have been ingesting 1000 calories of pure sugar instead of coconut, and as long as your CI were less than your CO you would lose weight. You found something that worked for you which is great, but it blows my mind how you still try to argue that your weight loss was somehow not attributed to a caloric deficit. The fact of the matter is, what worked for you was eating at a deficit, and just because you don't view it that way, it doesn't make it any less true.
CICO will never medically explain why some people overeat.
No, but it will explain why they gain/lose weight. Lack of willpower and CICO are 2 completely different things.
Would you agree 100% of people who legally log into these MFP forums already know it is calories or lack of calories from the food they eat that causes them to gain/lose weight?
People need to know WHY they under/over eat and it has nothing to do with willpower long term. People that use willpower to lose weight are called yo-yo dieters.
Are we really back to the 'everyone who is overweight has a physical or mental disorder' argument?
No. It is a metabolic disorder medically speaking.
Being overweight is not a metabolic disorder for the vast majority as their bodies are reacting exactly as designed i.e. seek food, and gain weight for the famine or illness that will come. We have only been in a food rich society for a blink of an eye.
Then what kind of disorder is being overweight?
It isn't a disorder. The body is processing excess calories the way it was designed - by storing them as fat.
Calling it a "Disorder" suggests that a system is functioning outside of the norm, it is not working properly - but weight gain as result of consuming more energy than the system requires is not a malfunction of the system.
If you have a cup, and you fill it with water such that it overflows, it is neither the design of the cup nor the fault of the liquid that you now have a mess to clean up. The cup holds what it holds. The act of you overfilling it does not mean that the cup is malfunctioning.
Yeah, but, like, you totally didn't address WHY someone would fill the cup until it overflowed. Until we nail that, we'll live in water-drenched anarchy.
Please not that, Water World sucked.
It didn't suck; it just has a cinematic disorder.
12 -
Alatariel75 wrote: »Gale, you have a highly irritating habit of applying a meaning that is not standard to a phrase, and then using it like it's common vernacular. Being fat is not, of itself, a metabolic disorder, no matter how much you want it to be.
Doctors (rightfully) tell people to lose weight because it is fraught with health issues.
The bolded is basically what I was just about to type. How do you debate with someone who uses a made up definition of a real word against you?
Gale, having a metabolic disorder can make you fat (it can also make you skinny). Being fat is not a metabolic disorder, nor does it necessarily mean you have a metabolic disorder. Being fat can be a symptom of a myriad of things (some medical disorders but many not), and is a health risk that can lead to a host of medical issues. But I suspect you know that.9 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »If over weight/obesity is not a metabolic disorder why are MD's telling people to lose weight? Are they all quacks now?
A metabolic disorder would mean that something isn't working right...ie you have something going on which is resulting in metabolic issues like hypo or hyperthyroidism...those are metabolic disorders.
Being overweight can be unhealthy and lead to any number of health issues and increase one's risk of health issues...but being overweight isn't a metabolic disorder...for most people it is a result of eating well beyond what is necessary, not something wrong with their metabolism.
Bingo. We become obese because something isn't working right so at least obesity is due to a metabolic disorder. I agree with that.32 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »If over weight/obesity is not a metabolic disorder why are MD's telling people to lose weight? Are they all quacks now?
A metabolic disorder would mean that something isn't working right...ie you have something going on which is resulting in metabolic issues like hypo or hyperthyroidism...those are metabolic disorders.
Being overweight can be unhealthy and lead to any number of health issues and increase one's risk of health issues...but being overweight isn't a metabolic disorder...for most people it is a result of eating well beyond what is necessary, not something wrong with their metabolism.
Bingo. We become obese because something isn't working right so at least obesity is due to a metabolic disorder. I agree with that.
We become obese because people pour more into their cup than it holds. Why can't you wrap your head around that? It is not a metabolic disorder.14 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »If over weight/obesity is not a metabolic disorder why are MD's telling people to lose weight? Are they all quacks now?
A metabolic disorder would mean that something isn't working right...ie you have something going on which is resulting in metabolic issues like hypo or hyperthyroidism...those are metabolic disorders.
Being overweight can be unhealthy and lead to any number of health issues and increase one's risk of health issues...but being overweight isn't a metabolic disorder...for most people it is a result of eating well beyond what is necessary, not something wrong with their metabolism.
Bingo. We become obese because something isn't working right so at least obesity is due to a metabolic disorder. I agree with that.
That's not what their post said. They said there are metabolic disorders that can result in obesity, not that obesity is always caused by a metabolic disorder.
As has been said, becoming obese from overeating is exactly how your body is supposed to work.9 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »SuzySunshine99 wrote: »http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opinion/commentary/ct-perspec-thin-people-dieting-weight-food-resolutions-0101-20171227-story.html
I am not sure what made me more mad when I saw this commentary piece in the Chicago Tribune this morning....
The statement that "cutting calories alone doesn't lead to long-term weight loss".
The myth that there are "naturally thin" people who just have good genetics and high metabolism.
Or, the conclusion that if you are overweight, you do not have any chance of losing weight long term so you shouldn't even try.
So angry right now....
I'd like to hear everyone's thoughts on this dreary op-ed article.
Not sure there are 'skinny' genes but it is true in a functional sense that cutting calories does not lead to long term weight loss for most people that I have ever known including myself.
Finally at the age of 63 I decided to NEVER go on another diet to lose weight just to have another 100%+ regain. Now turning 67 I have lost 50 pounds and maintained that loss for over two and half years by changing the kind of calories that I eat.
Cutting calories can be a short term fix in an emergency but it is not likely to fix the cause of the wrong way of thinking, eating and moving that lead to the need to go on a "diet" in the first place.
For over three years now I have eaten only to improve my health and health markers. When I did that the weight started to normalize (decrease) after the first 45 days without any dieting effort yet staying stuffed most of the time.
Thinking about losing weight seems to be a good way to gain weight for many people it seems perhaps.
I just love being the special unicorn snowflake that I am. I was fat into my late twenties, lost the weight (50 pounds), and have maintained that loss (within a +/-5 pound range) for over 15 years (I think this is 17 years this year? I've lost count). All from cutting calories. Heck - my usual carb % is 55-60%, and it's not all healthy stuffs! I'm MAGIC.15 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »Wheelhouse15 wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »Christine_72 wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »SuzySunshine99 wrote: »http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opinion/commentary/ct-perspec-thin-people-dieting-weight-food-resolutions-0101-20171227-story.html
I am not sure what made me more mad when I saw this commentary piece in the Chicago Tribune this morning....
The statement that "cutting calories alone doesn't lead to long-term weight loss".
The myth that there are "naturally thin" people who just have good genetics and high metabolism.
Or, the conclusion that if you are overweight, you do not have any chance of losing weight long term so you shouldn't even try.
So angry right now....
I'd like to hear everyone's thoughts on this dreary op-ed article.
Not sure there are 'skinny' genes but it is true in a functional sense that cutting calories does not lead to long term weight loss for most people that I have ever known including myself.
Finally at the age of 63 I decided to NEVER go on another diet to lose weight just to have another 100%+ regain. Now turning 67 I have lost 50 pounds and maintained that loss for over two and half years by changing the kind of calories that I eat.
Cutting calories can be a short term fix in an emergency but it is not likely to fix the cause of the wrong way of thinking, eating and moving that lead to the need to go on a "diet" in the first place.
For over three years now I have eaten only to improve my health and health markers. When I did that the weight started to normalize (decrease) after the first 45 days without any dieting effort yet staying stuffed most of the time.
Thinking about losing weight seems to be a good way to gain weight for many people it seems perhaps.
And do you know why your weight decreased? Because you were taking in less calories than you were burning. Whether you viewed what you were doing as cutting calories or not, that is exactly what you were doing if you lost weight. I'm sure you will spout all sorts of nonsense to try to explain otherwise, because that is what you do best around here, but the simple fact is your weight is directly affected by CICO.
Do you know why I was taking in less calories when starting Oct 2014 (and still continue to eat that way today) cold turkey I cut add sugars and all forms of all grains that over time has resolved my binging, pain, IBS, limited health in general, etc?
Did I know going LCHF Oct 2014 would functionally give me hope for a future? NO I did not but I was willing to try anything to avoid the medical side effects of starting on Enbrel injections Nov 2014. I did not even know what I was doing but just acting to a hunch that cutting out the sugar and grain that I might be able to dodge the Enbrel bullet coming my way. I added about a 1000 calories daily at the same time from coconut products trying to prevent Alzheimer's.
That is how out of ignorance I accidently started the LCHF WOE. As noted before I had to leave sugar and grains cold turkey after trying to taper off of them for 60 days and failing. I learned I was a carb addict then I realized I was going to have to stop eat food containing added sugar and any form of any grain instead of just reducing these highly processed carb food sources.
As I have stated for years how one eats is their own business and how I eat is my business. At the age of 63 I willfully decided to eat for longer life instead of eating for a premature death.
Yep, there's the long, drawn out, nonsense explanation I was expecting and forgive me, but I am having trouble following. You say you were taking in less calories, but then say you added about 1000 calories a day at the same time. So which is it? Were you taking in less calories or more? Were the 1000 calories of coconut products included in your daily total which was less than before? If so, then it I have some news for you: it wasn't the fact that you were taking coconut products that helped you lose weight, it is the fact that you were taking in less calories overall. You could have been ingesting 1000 calories of pure sugar instead of coconut, and as long as your CI were less than your CO you would lose weight. You found something that worked for you which is great, but it blows my mind how you still try to argue that your weight loss was somehow not attributed to a caloric deficit. The fact of the matter is, what worked for you was eating at a deficit, and just because you don't view it that way, it doesn't make it any less true.
CICO will never medically explain why some people overeat.
No, but it will explain why they gain/lose weight. Lack of willpower and CICO are 2 completely different things.
Would you agree 100% of people who legally log into these MFP forums already know it is calories or lack of calories from the food they eat that causes them to gain/lose weight?
People need to know WHY they under/over eat and it has nothing to do with willpower long term. People that use willpower to lose weight are called yo-yo dieters.
Are we really back to the 'everyone who is overweight has a physical or mental disorder' argument?
No. It is a metabolic disorder medically speaking.
Being overweight is not a metabolic disorder for the vast majority as their bodies are reacting exactly as designed i.e. seek food, and gain weight for the famine or illness that will come. We have only been in a food rich society for a blink of an eye.
Then what kind of disorder is being overweight?
It. Isn't. A. Disorder.
What is more probable: that most of the world has a metabolic disorder that causes them to be overweight that has somehow just sprung up in the last few decades; or that people in have better access to food that is more calorie dense and cheaper, and that technology has lessened the requirement that we move so much?
I see your point. Obesity is the side effect of something upstream and that can vary from case to case. In my case after I started eating mainly whole foods (LCHF) instead of mainly highly processed carbs my health improved automatically and I lost 50 pounds without trying yet stayed stuffed for the past three years as I am at this minute after eating a large cluster of grapes. I made the eating change to simply gain longevity by improving general health so I could function without pain and without being under a doctor's care receiving Rx meds. My WOE is highly sustainable because after the first 30 days my controlling carb cravings was fading away fast. I understand my WOE is not for everyone because not everyone has carb cravings that can lead to binging. Thanks for clearing up my wording.16 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »If over weight/obesity is not a metabolic disorder why are MD's telling people to lose weight? Are they all quacks now?
A metabolic disorder would mean that something isn't working right...ie you have something going on which is resulting in metabolic issues like hypo or hyperthyroidism...those are metabolic disorders.
Being overweight can be unhealthy and lead to any number of health issues and increase one's risk of health issues...but being overweight isn't a metabolic disorder...for most people it is a result of eating well beyond what is necessary, not something wrong with their metabolism.
Bingo. We become obese because something isn't working right so at least obesity is due to a metabolic disorder. I agree with that.
It amazes me that you can take a post that literally says being overweight is not a metabolic disorder, and somehow read it as saying the opposite.
For the most part, people become obese because they eat too much. That's it, end of story.15 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »If over weight/obesity is not a metabolic disorder why are MD's telling people to lose weight? Are they all quacks now?
A metabolic disorder would mean that something isn't working right...ie you have something going on which is resulting in metabolic issues like hypo or hyperthyroidism...those are metabolic disorders.
Being overweight can be unhealthy and lead to any number of health issues and increase one's risk of health issues...but being overweight isn't a metabolic disorder...for most people it is a result of eating well beyond what is necessary, not something wrong with their metabolism.
Bingo. We become obese because something isn't working right so at least obesity is due to a metabolic disorder. I agree with that.
No, it's not a metabolic disorder but rather a maladaptive response in present context. It could be a metabolic disorder in some cases but in most cases it's due to lifestyle and behavioural choices that we make everyday. Eating more than you burn is not a metabolic disorder but the urge to eat to store excess energy is something that we have evolved to do and is now maladaptive.5 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »If over weight/obesity is not a metabolic disorder why are MD's telling people to lose weight? Are they all quacks now?
MDs tell people to do lots of things for the good of their health. That doesn't make those ill-advised things a metabolic disorder.
Just to pick a random example, MDs - when relevant - will tell you not to eat when you have lead paint dust on your hands. Doesn't make lead paint dust (or its consumption) a metabolic disorder.
Overeating when food is abundant confers evolutionary advantage. Come the final post-apocalyptic famine, the obese may outlive you and me. Besides, McDonald's will be shuttered, so no "whole food" round eggs, burger patties, coffee.
15 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »Wheelhouse15 wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »Christine_72 wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »SuzySunshine99 wrote: »http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opinion/commentary/ct-perspec-thin-people-dieting-weight-food-resolutions-0101-20171227-story.html
I am not sure what made me more mad when I saw this commentary piece in the Chicago Tribune this morning....
The statement that "cutting calories alone doesn't lead to long-term weight loss".
The myth that there are "naturally thin" people who just have good genetics and high metabolism.
Or, the conclusion that if you are overweight, you do not have any chance of losing weight long term so you shouldn't even try.
So angry right now....
I'd like to hear everyone's thoughts on this dreary op-ed article.
Not sure there are 'skinny' genes but it is true in a functional sense that cutting calories does not lead to long term weight loss for most people that I have ever known including myself.
Finally at the age of 63 I decided to NEVER go on another diet to lose weight just to have another 100%+ regain. Now turning 67 I have lost 50 pounds and maintained that loss for over two and half years by changing the kind of calories that I eat.
Cutting calories can be a short term fix in an emergency but it is not likely to fix the cause of the wrong way of thinking, eating and moving that lead to the need to go on a "diet" in the first place.
For over three years now I have eaten only to improve my health and health markers. When I did that the weight started to normalize (decrease) after the first 45 days without any dieting effort yet staying stuffed most of the time.
Thinking about losing weight seems to be a good way to gain weight for many people it seems perhaps.
And do you know why your weight decreased? Because you were taking in less calories than you were burning. Whether you viewed what you were doing as cutting calories or not, that is exactly what you were doing if you lost weight. I'm sure you will spout all sorts of nonsense to try to explain otherwise, because that is what you do best around here, but the simple fact is your weight is directly affected by CICO.
Do you know why I was taking in less calories when starting Oct 2014 (and still continue to eat that way today) cold turkey I cut add sugars and all forms of all grains that over time has resolved my binging, pain, IBS, limited health in general, etc?
Did I know going LCHF Oct 2014 would functionally give me hope for a future? NO I did not but I was willing to try anything to avoid the medical side effects of starting on Enbrel injections Nov 2014. I did not even know what I was doing but just acting to a hunch that cutting out the sugar and grain that I might be able to dodge the Enbrel bullet coming my way. I added about a 1000 calories daily at the same time from coconut products trying to prevent Alzheimer's.
That is how out of ignorance I accidently started the LCHF WOE. As noted before I had to leave sugar and grains cold turkey after trying to taper off of them for 60 days and failing. I learned I was a carb addict then I realized I was going to have to stop eat food containing added sugar and any form of any grain instead of just reducing these highly processed carb food sources.
As I have stated for years how one eats is their own business and how I eat is my business. At the age of 63 I willfully decided to eat for longer life instead of eating for a premature death.
Yep, there's the long, drawn out, nonsense explanation I was expecting and forgive me, but I am having trouble following. You say you were taking in less calories, but then say you added about 1000 calories a day at the same time. So which is it? Were you taking in less calories or more? Were the 1000 calories of coconut products included in your daily total which was less than before? If so, then it I have some news for you: it wasn't the fact that you were taking coconut products that helped you lose weight, it is the fact that you were taking in less calories overall. You could have been ingesting 1000 calories of pure sugar instead of coconut, and as long as your CI were less than your CO you would lose weight. You found something that worked for you which is great, but it blows my mind how you still try to argue that your weight loss was somehow not attributed to a caloric deficit. The fact of the matter is, what worked for you was eating at a deficit, and just because you don't view it that way, it doesn't make it any less true.
CICO will never medically explain why some people overeat.
No, but it will explain why they gain/lose weight. Lack of willpower and CICO are 2 completely different things.
Would you agree 100% of people who legally log into these MFP forums already know it is calories or lack of calories from the food they eat that causes them to gain/lose weight?
People need to know WHY they under/over eat and it has nothing to do with willpower long term. People that use willpower to lose weight are called yo-yo dieters.
Are we really back to the 'everyone who is overweight has a physical or mental disorder' argument?
No. It is a metabolic disorder medically speaking.
Being overweight is not a metabolic disorder for the vast majority as their bodies are reacting exactly as designed i.e. seek food, and gain weight for the famine or illness that will come. We have only been in a food rich society for a blink of an eye.
Then what kind of disorder is being overweight?
It. Isn't. A. Disorder.
What is more probable: that most of the world has a metabolic disorder that causes them to be overweight that has somehow just sprung up in the last few decades; or that people in have better access to food that is more calorie dense and cheaper, and that technology has lessened the requirement that we move so much?
I see your point. Obesity is the side effect of something upstream and that can vary from case to case. In my case after I started eating mainly whole foods (LCHF) instead of mainly highly processed carbs my health improved automatically and I lost 50 pounds without trying yet stayed stuffed for the past three years as I am at this minute after eating a large cluster of grapes. I made the eating change to simply gain longevity by improving general health so I could function without pain and without being under a doctor's care receiving Rx meds. My WOE is highly sustainable because after the first 30 days my controlling carb cravings was fading away fast. I understand my WOE is not for everyone because not everyone has carb cravings that can lead to binging. Thanks for clearing up my wording.
So food cravings are metabolic disorders? Ok, I'm listening fill me in on the latest research.7 -
Nony_Mouse wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »If over weight/obesity is not a metabolic disorder why are MD's telling people to lose weight? Are they all quacks now?
A metabolic disorder would mean that something isn't working right...ie you have something going on which is resulting in metabolic issues like hypo or hyperthyroidism...those are metabolic disorders.
Being overweight can be unhealthy and lead to any number of health issues and increase one's risk of health issues...but being overweight isn't a metabolic disorder...for most people it is a result of eating well beyond what is necessary, not something wrong with their metabolism.
Bingo. We become obese because something isn't working right so at least obesity is due to a metabolic disorder. I agree with that.
It amazes me that you can take a post that literally says being overweight is not a metabolic disorder, and somehow read it as saying the opposite.
For the most part, people become obese because they eat too much. That's it, end of story.Nony_Mouse wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »If over weight/obesity is not a metabolic disorder why are MD's telling people to lose weight? Are they all quacks now?
A metabolic disorder would mean that something isn't working right...ie you have something going on which is resulting in metabolic issues like hypo or hyperthyroidism...those are metabolic disorders.
Being overweight can be unhealthy and lead to any number of health issues and increase one's risk of health issues...but being overweight isn't a metabolic disorder...for most people it is a result of eating well beyond what is necessary, not something wrong with their metabolism.
Bingo. We become obese because something isn't working right so at least obesity is due to a metabolic disorder. I agree with that.
It amazes me that you can take a post that literally says being overweight is not a metabolic disorder, and somehow read it as saying the opposite.
For the most part, people become obese because they eat too much. That's it, end of story.
We are all able to understand the eating too much part. That fact however does not answer the question of WHY we eat too much. The HOW we become obese is known and the least common denominator of weight loss it to learn WHY.
Sure counting calories is a good stop gap measure while we answer the WHY question.
It was when I realized I was a carb addict that did not want to give up the addiction that the WHY of my obesity and health wreck became clear in my mind. Addictions I learned are not easy to address but at age 63 I knew my time to change may be too late but I gave it a shoot starting Oct 2014 and now over three years I am reaping the health benefits and have maintained a 50 pound loss for nearly three years by just cutting out processed foods that resolved my processed carb cravings.
Everyone that is obese has a major WHY to answer. I did not have to learn what lead to my carb addiction forming sometime in the past. I just had to stop feeding the addiction Oct 2014 when I realized I was an addict. Staying out of my coffin as long as possible was my driving force. I decided to go for Life over a certain premature Death.
For 40 years of yo-yoing diets I knew HOW I kept having 100%+ regains after each weight loss. Long term success came only after I understood Why I had 100%+ regains for the past 40 years.
Most 8 year old kids understand CICO. Being slow I guess I was 63 and dying before I understood Why I was gorging out of control. Yes I got lucky because just cutting out processed foods contain sugar and any form of any grain fixed my over eating disorder.
Best of success to each in answerer his or her WHY do I overeat question.
16 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »Wheelhouse15 wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »Christine_72 wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »SuzySunshine99 wrote: »http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opinion/commentary/ct-perspec-thin-people-dieting-weight-food-resolutions-0101-20171227-story.html
I am not sure what made me more mad when I saw this commentary piece in the Chicago Tribune this morning....
The statement that "cutting calories alone doesn't lead to long-term weight loss".
The myth that there are "naturally thin" people who just have good genetics and high metabolism.
Or, the conclusion that if you are overweight, you do not have any chance of losing weight long term so you shouldn't even try.
So angry right now....
I'd like to hear everyone's thoughts on this dreary op-ed article.
Not sure there are 'skinny' genes but it is true in a functional sense that cutting calories does not lead to long term weight loss for most people that I have ever known including myself.
Finally at the age of 63 I decided to NEVER go on another diet to lose weight just to have another 100%+ regain. Now turning 67 I have lost 50 pounds and maintained that loss for over two and half years by changing the kind of calories that I eat.
Cutting calories can be a short term fix in an emergency but it is not likely to fix the cause of the wrong way of thinking, eating and moving that lead to the need to go on a "diet" in the first place.
For over three years now I have eaten only to improve my health and health markers. When I did that the weight started to normalize (decrease) after the first 45 days without any dieting effort yet staying stuffed most of the time.
Thinking about losing weight seems to be a good way to gain weight for many people it seems perhaps.
And do you know why your weight decreased? Because you were taking in less calories than you were burning. Whether you viewed what you were doing as cutting calories or not, that is exactly what you were doing if you lost weight. I'm sure you will spout all sorts of nonsense to try to explain otherwise, because that is what you do best around here, but the simple fact is your weight is directly affected by CICO.
Do you know why I was taking in less calories when starting Oct 2014 (and still continue to eat that way today) cold turkey I cut add sugars and all forms of all grains that over time has resolved my binging, pain, IBS, limited health in general, etc?
Did I know going LCHF Oct 2014 would functionally give me hope for a future? NO I did not but I was willing to try anything to avoid the medical side effects of starting on Enbrel injections Nov 2014. I did not even know what I was doing but just acting to a hunch that cutting out the sugar and grain that I might be able to dodge the Enbrel bullet coming my way. I added about a 1000 calories daily at the same time from coconut products trying to prevent Alzheimer's.
That is how out of ignorance I accidently started the LCHF WOE. As noted before I had to leave sugar and grains cold turkey after trying to taper off of them for 60 days and failing. I learned I was a carb addict then I realized I was going to have to stop eat food containing added sugar and any form of any grain instead of just reducing these highly processed carb food sources.
As I have stated for years how one eats is their own business and how I eat is my business. At the age of 63 I willfully decided to eat for longer life instead of eating for a premature death.
Yep, there's the long, drawn out, nonsense explanation I was expecting and forgive me, but I am having trouble following. You say you were taking in less calories, but then say you added about 1000 calories a day at the same time. So which is it? Were you taking in less calories or more? Were the 1000 calories of coconut products included in your daily total which was less than before? If so, then it I have some news for you: it wasn't the fact that you were taking coconut products that helped you lose weight, it is the fact that you were taking in less calories overall. You could have been ingesting 1000 calories of pure sugar instead of coconut, and as long as your CI were less than your CO you would lose weight. You found something that worked for you which is great, but it blows my mind how you still try to argue that your weight loss was somehow not attributed to a caloric deficit. The fact of the matter is, what worked for you was eating at a deficit, and just because you don't view it that way, it doesn't make it any less true.
CICO will never medically explain why some people overeat.
No, but it will explain why they gain/lose weight. Lack of willpower and CICO are 2 completely different things.
Would you agree 100% of people who legally log into these MFP forums already know it is calories or lack of calories from the food they eat that causes them to gain/lose weight?
People need to know WHY they under/over eat and it has nothing to do with willpower long term. People that use willpower to lose weight are called yo-yo dieters.
Are we really back to the 'everyone who is overweight has a physical or mental disorder' argument?
No. It is a metabolic disorder medically speaking.
Being overweight is not a metabolic disorder for the vast majority as their bodies are reacting exactly as designed i.e. seek food, and gain weight for the famine or illness that will come. We have only been in a food rich society for a blink of an eye.
Then what kind of disorder is being overweight?
It. Isn't. A. Disorder.
What is more probable: that most of the world has a metabolic disorder that causes them to be overweight that has somehow just sprung up in the last few decades; or that people in have better access to food that is more calorie dense and cheaper, and that technology has lessened the requirement that we move so much?
I see your point. Obesity is the side effect of something upstream and that can vary from case to case. In my case after I started eating mainly whole foods (LCHF) instead of mainly highly processed carbs my health improved automatically and I lost 50 pounds without trying yet stayed stuffed for the past three years as I am at this minute after eating a large cluster of grapes. I made the eating change to simply gain longevity by improving general health so I could function without pain and without being under a doctor's care receiving Rx meds. My WOE is highly sustainable because after the first 30 days my controlling carb cravings was fading away fast. I understand my WOE is not for everyone because not everyone has carb cravings that can lead to binging. Thanks for clearing up my wording.
Now whole foods has a brand new definition too? Cool.9 -
Wheelhouse15 wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »If over weight/obesity is not a metabolic disorder why are MD's telling people to lose weight? Are they all quacks now?
A metabolic disorder would mean that something isn't working right...ie you have something going on which is resulting in metabolic issues like hypo or hyperthyroidism...those are metabolic disorders.
Being overweight can be unhealthy and lead to any number of health issues and increase one's risk of health issues...but being overweight isn't a metabolic disorder...for most people it is a result of eating well beyond what is necessary, not something wrong with their metabolism.
Bingo. We become obese because something isn't working right so at least obesity is due to a metabolic disorder. I agree with that.
No, it's not a metabolic disorder but rather a maladaptive response in present context. It could be a metabolic disorder in some cases but in most cases it's due to lifestyle and behavioural choices that we make everyday. Eating more than you burn is not a metabolic disorder but the urge to eat to store excess energy is something that we have evolved to do and is now maladaptive.
Good explanation.0
This discussion has been closed.
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