What was/is your experience with the Ketogenic diet?

Options
2

Replies

  • deannalfisher
    deannalfisher Posts: 5,600 Member
    Options
    kgeyser wrote: »
    deannalfisher wrote: »
    sak1962 wrote: »
    megs_1985 wrote: »
    https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/ketogenic-diet-is-the-ultimate-low-carb-diet-good-for-you-2017072712089

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5452247/#!po=21.5596

    As I said ok for a very particular subset of people under a doctor’s supervision but from what I read on here people are doing it because it’s the cool new fad diet that will be the magic pill while never learning how to actually eat a healthy sustainable diet for the long term. Also overtime the results even out overtime with traditional weight loss not making any better so why put yourself through such a restrictive diet to just get the same results but putting yourself at more risk of regaining the weight?

    I don't believe you have the slightest clue how a ketogenic diet works. And the junk articles you cite are some of the most one sided garbage I've seen in quite a while. I personally know lots of people that are living in NK (Nutritional Ketosis). They live great lives and range from stay at home moms to neurosurgeons. Yes living Ketogenic is not for everyone, it takes a little willpower and self control. If you find yourself unable to control what you put in your mouth then this WoE (Way of Eating) is not for you. The crap you are spewing about no fiber , fruits, or vegetables is total BS. Vegetables and fiber actually make up a large part of the diet with this WoE. The only reason fruit is restricted is because it is high in Fructose (Sugar = Carbs). Now let's cover your "Restricts or Bans an entire Macronutrient" statement. Do you mean the way Fat is eliminated or severely restricted in a low fat diet? Maybe I'm reading you wrong. And as for Fad diet....... I guess it's only been around for a bit more than 100 years, so calling it a Fad is a bit egotistical. Try doing a little more reading with a little more variety of viewpoint before you start trying to sound like an expert next time. You are entitled to your personal beliefs but when you start trying to tell people junk science is the only way to go it really gives those of us with our own thoughts and brains a good laugh, but mostly at you and not with you.

    because articles published in peer reviewed journals or by medical schools are junk - correct?

    The articles were supposed to support the claim that the diet is unhealthy, however the Harvard article did not say that the diet is unhealthy; the only possible health issue it stated was the potential to overeat on red meat and fatty, salty, processed foods, which you can do on any diet.

    The other study said the diet is "not totally safe," but in the conclusion states "As KD are often rich in fats, some negative effects could happen. Mainly in rodents, developments of NAFLD and insulin resistance were described. In humans, insulin resistance is also a potential negative effect, but some studies have shown improvements in insulin sensitivity." I don't think rodent studies and inconclusive evidence on insulin resistance are enough to support the claim that the diet is unhealthy.

    my comment was more to do with this comment made:
    And the junk articles you cite are some of the most one sided garbage I've seen in quite a while.
  • kgeyser
    kgeyser Posts: 22,505 Member
    Options
    deannalfisher wrote: »
    kgeyser wrote: »
    deannalfisher wrote: »
    sak1962 wrote: »
    megs_1985 wrote: »
    https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/ketogenic-diet-is-the-ultimate-low-carb-diet-good-for-you-2017072712089

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5452247/#!po=21.5596

    As I said ok for a very particular subset of people under a doctor’s supervision but from what I read on here people are doing it because it’s the cool new fad diet that will be the magic pill while never learning how to actually eat a healthy sustainable diet for the long term. Also overtime the results even out overtime with traditional weight loss not making any better so why put yourself through such a restrictive diet to just get the same results but putting yourself at more risk of regaining the weight?

    I don't believe you have the slightest clue how a ketogenic diet works. And the junk articles you cite are some of the most one sided garbage I've seen in quite a while. I personally know lots of people that are living in NK (Nutritional Ketosis). They live great lives and range from stay at home moms to neurosurgeons. Yes living Ketogenic is not for everyone, it takes a little willpower and self control. If you find yourself unable to control what you put in your mouth then this WoE (Way of Eating) is not for you. The crap you are spewing about no fiber , fruits, or vegetables is total BS. Vegetables and fiber actually make up a large part of the diet with this WoE. The only reason fruit is restricted is because it is high in Fructose (Sugar = Carbs). Now let's cover your "Restricts or Bans an entire Macronutrient" statement. Do you mean the way Fat is eliminated or severely restricted in a low fat diet? Maybe I'm reading you wrong. And as for Fad diet....... I guess it's only been around for a bit more than 100 years, so calling it a Fad is a bit egotistical. Try doing a little more reading with a little more variety of viewpoint before you start trying to sound like an expert next time. You are entitled to your personal beliefs but when you start trying to tell people junk science is the only way to go it really gives those of us with our own thoughts and brains a good laugh, but mostly at you and not with you.

    because articles published in peer reviewed journals or by medical schools are junk - correct?

    The articles were supposed to support the claim that the diet is unhealthy, however the Harvard article did not say that the diet is unhealthy; the only possible health issue it stated was the potential to overeat on red meat and fatty, salty, processed foods, which you can do on any diet.

    The other study said the diet is "not totally safe," but in the conclusion states "As KD are often rich in fats, some negative effects could happen. Mainly in rodents, developments of NAFLD and insulin resistance were described. In humans, insulin resistance is also a potential negative effect, but some studies have shown improvements in insulin sensitivity." I don't think rodent studies and inconclusive evidence on insulin resistance are enough to support the claim that the diet is unhealthy.

    my comment was more to do with this comment made:
    And the junk articles you cite are some of the most one sided garbage I've seen in quite a while.

    I realize that, but just because someone found something that says Harvard or comes from PubMed doesn't mean that it should pass without criticism either. The Harvard piece is a blog, with no cited sources, written by a primary care doctor, and one of the most frequent criticisms we see around here are that physicians do not receive a great deal of training in nutrition. His bio does not indicate work specifically in nutrition, or nutrition even listed as an interest, and his article reflects that.

    Take his criticism of the diet - "Because it is so restrictive, it is really hard to follow over the long run. Carbohydrates normally account for at least 50% of the typical American diet. One of the main criticisms of this diet is that many people tend to eat too much protein and poor-quality fats from processed foods, with very few fruits and vegetables." - that does not sound like any keto diet I've seen described on this site. The majority of users here seem to be getting fats from butter, coconut oil, and meat, and tend to be moderate protein if that. But since he didn't cite any sources, who knows where he came up with that.
  • deannalfisher
    deannalfisher Posts: 5,600 Member
    Options
    kgeyser wrote: »
    deannalfisher wrote: »
    kgeyser wrote: »
    deannalfisher wrote: »
    sak1962 wrote: »
    megs_1985 wrote: »
    https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/ketogenic-diet-is-the-ultimate-low-carb-diet-good-for-you-2017072712089

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5452247/#!po=21.5596

    As I said ok for a very particular subset of people under a doctor’s supervision but from what I read on here people are doing it because it’s the cool new fad diet that will be the magic pill while never learning how to actually eat a healthy sustainable diet for the long term. Also overtime the results even out overtime with traditional weight loss not making any better so why put yourself through such a restrictive diet to just get the same results but putting yourself at more risk of regaining the weight?

    I don't believe you have the slightest clue how a ketogenic diet works. And the junk articles you cite are some of the most one sided garbage I've seen in quite a while. I personally know lots of people that are living in NK (Nutritional Ketosis). They live great lives and range from stay at home moms to neurosurgeons. Yes living Ketogenic is not for everyone, it takes a little willpower and self control. If you find yourself unable to control what you put in your mouth then this WoE (Way of Eating) is not for you. The crap you are spewing about no fiber , fruits, or vegetables is total BS. Vegetables and fiber actually make up a large part of the diet with this WoE. The only reason fruit is restricted is because it is high in Fructose (Sugar = Carbs). Now let's cover your "Restricts or Bans an entire Macronutrient" statement. Do you mean the way Fat is eliminated or severely restricted in a low fat diet? Maybe I'm reading you wrong. And as for Fad diet....... I guess it's only been around for a bit more than 100 years, so calling it a Fad is a bit egotistical. Try doing a little more reading with a little more variety of viewpoint before you start trying to sound like an expert next time. You are entitled to your personal beliefs but when you start trying to tell people junk science is the only way to go it really gives those of us with our own thoughts and brains a good laugh, but mostly at you and not with you.

    because articles published in peer reviewed journals or by medical schools are junk - correct?

    The articles were supposed to support the claim that the diet is unhealthy, however the Harvard article did not say that the diet is unhealthy; the only possible health issue it stated was the potential to overeat on red meat and fatty, salty, processed foods, which you can do on any diet.

    The other study said the diet is "not totally safe," but in the conclusion states "As KD are often rich in fats, some negative effects could happen. Mainly in rodents, developments of NAFLD and insulin resistance were described. In humans, insulin resistance is also a potential negative effect, but some studies have shown improvements in insulin sensitivity." I don't think rodent studies and inconclusive evidence on insulin resistance are enough to support the claim that the diet is unhealthy.

    my comment was more to do with this comment made:
    And the junk articles you cite are some of the most one sided garbage I've seen in quite a while.

    I realize that, but just because someone found something that says Harvard or comes from PubMed doesn't mean that it should pass without criticism either. The Harvard piece is a blog, with no cited sources, written by a primary care doctor, and one of the most frequent criticisms we see around here are that physicians do not receive a great deal of training in nutrition. His bio does not indicate work specifically in nutrition, or nutrition even listed as an interest, and his article reflects that.

    Take his criticism of the diet - "Because it is so restrictive, it is really hard to follow over the long run. Carbohydrates normally account for at least 50% of the typical American diet. One of the main criticisms of this diet is that many people tend to eat too much protein and poor-quality fats from processed foods, with very few fruits and vegetables." - that does not sound like any keto diet I've seen described on this site. The majority of users here seem to be getting fats from butter, coconut oil, and meat, and tend to be moderate protein if that. But since he didn't cite any sources, who knows where he came up with that.

    unfortuantely while you haven't seen that on the site - I have from newer people and i've had people I've worked with who are trying it make similar comments...to paraphrase one - so i could have a steak with butter and bacon and lose weight...

    I tried to find the link to the Alan Aragon Keto meta-analysis which looked at 200+ keto studies - most of the conculsions of him and the panel of experts was that more long-term research was needed with larger subject pools (this conclusion was based on a the review of the research where many studies only had 10-20 subjects) which makes any kind of results harder to generalize to the wide population.

    additionally, personnally, I did research and there are limited indications (and I acknowledge that more research is necessary) which ties lower carb diets (while not specifically calling keto out) to the increase in thyroid disorders over the last couple of decades.
  • cheryldumais
    cheryldumais Posts: 1,907 Member
    Options
    I did Atkins and various other low carb diets over the years. At first I loved them but then missed carbs too much. I agree it is a great hunger reducer and some people do really well on them but for me it wasn't sustainable.
  • NaeJayKay
    NaeJayKay Posts: 14 Member
    Options
    kgeyser wrote: »
    I have not done keto, but these groups have a lot of information about low carb and keto diets:

    http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/group/394-low-carber-daily-forum-the-lcd-group

    http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/group/1143-keto

    Also, there is a group for women with PCOS, lots of info in there about experiences with dietary interventions and medications:

    http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/group/3070-p-c-o-sis
    kgeyser wrote: »
    I have not done keto, but these groups have a lot of information about low carb and keto diets:

    http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/group/394-low-carber-daily-forum-the-lcd-group

    http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/group/1143-keto

    Also, there is a group for women with PCOS, lots of info in there about experiences with dietary interventions and medications:

    http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/group/3070-p-c-o-sis


    Many thanks to you for sharing these links!
  • KrazyKrissyy
    KrazyKrissyy Posts: 322 Member
    Options
    I felt horrible on keto. Too little carbs and too much fatty meat. Was always constipated too and would go 2 weeks without a movement. Literally felt like I had bricks sitting in my intestines after eating a keto meal, and often wasnt hungry until the next day (nauseas). Additionally, I had bad reflux while doing keto. Turns out, I have low stomach acid. I prefer more plant-based (less acidic) and feel loads better on vegan/vegetarian diets. As for weight loss, I gained over 20 pounds on keto. On the flip side, I reached my lowest weight on vegan.
  • kgeyser
    kgeyser Posts: 22,505 Member
    Options
    deannalfisher wrote: »
    kgeyser wrote: »
    deannalfisher wrote: »
    kgeyser wrote: »
    deannalfisher wrote: »
    sak1962 wrote: »
    megs_1985 wrote: »
    https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/ketogenic-diet-is-the-ultimate-low-carb-diet-good-for-you-2017072712089

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5452247/#!po=21.5596

    As I said ok for a very particular subset of people under a doctor’s supervision but from what I read on here people are doing it because it’s the cool new fad diet that will be the magic pill while never learning how to actually eat a healthy sustainable diet for the long term. Also overtime the results even out overtime with traditional weight loss not making any better so why put yourself through such a restrictive diet to just get the same results but putting yourself at more risk of regaining the weight?

    I don't believe you have the slightest clue how a ketogenic diet works. And the junk articles you cite are some of the most one sided garbage I've seen in quite a while. I personally know lots of people that are living in NK (Nutritional Ketosis). They live great lives and range from stay at home moms to neurosurgeons. Yes living Ketogenic is not for everyone, it takes a little willpower and self control. If you find yourself unable to control what you put in your mouth then this WoE (Way of Eating) is not for you. The crap you are spewing about no fiber , fruits, or vegetables is total BS. Vegetables and fiber actually make up a large part of the diet with this WoE. The only reason fruit is restricted is because it is high in Fructose (Sugar = Carbs). Now let's cover your "Restricts or Bans an entire Macronutrient" statement. Do you mean the way Fat is eliminated or severely restricted in a low fat diet? Maybe I'm reading you wrong. And as for Fad diet....... I guess it's only been around for a bit more than 100 years, so calling it a Fad is a bit egotistical. Try doing a little more reading with a little more variety of viewpoint before you start trying to sound like an expert next time. You are entitled to your personal beliefs but when you start trying to tell people junk science is the only way to go it really gives those of us with our own thoughts and brains a good laugh, but mostly at you and not with you.

    because articles published in peer reviewed journals or by medical schools are junk - correct?

    The articles were supposed to support the claim that the diet is unhealthy, however the Harvard article did not say that the diet is unhealthy; the only possible health issue it stated was the potential to overeat on red meat and fatty, salty, processed foods, which you can do on any diet.

    The other study said the diet is "not totally safe," but in the conclusion states "As KD are often rich in fats, some negative effects could happen. Mainly in rodents, developments of NAFLD and insulin resistance were described. In humans, insulin resistance is also a potential negative effect, but some studies have shown improvements in insulin sensitivity." I don't think rodent studies and inconclusive evidence on insulin resistance are enough to support the claim that the diet is unhealthy.

    my comment was more to do with this comment made:
    And the junk articles you cite are some of the most one sided garbage I've seen in quite a while.

    I realize that, but just because someone found something that says Harvard or comes from PubMed doesn't mean that it should pass without criticism either. The Harvard piece is a blog, with no cited sources, written by a primary care doctor, and one of the most frequent criticisms we see around here are that physicians do not receive a great deal of training in nutrition. His bio does not indicate work specifically in nutrition, or nutrition even listed as an interest, and his article reflects that.

    Take his criticism of the diet - "Because it is so restrictive, it is really hard to follow over the long run. Carbohydrates normally account for at least 50% of the typical American diet. One of the main criticisms of this diet is that many people tend to eat too much protein and poor-quality fats from processed foods, with very few fruits and vegetables." - that does not sound like any keto diet I've seen described on this site. The majority of users here seem to be getting fats from butter, coconut oil, and meat, and tend to be moderate protein if that. But since he didn't cite any sources, who knows where he came up with that.

    unfortuantely while you haven't seen that on the site - I have from newer people and i've had people I've worked with who are trying it make similar comments...to paraphrase one - so i could have a steak with butter and bacon and lose weight...

    I tried to find the link to the Alan Aragon Keto meta-analysis which looked at 200+ keto studies - most of the conculsions of him and the panel of experts was that more long-term research was needed with larger subject pools (this conclusion was based on a the review of the research where many studies only had 10-20 subjects) which makes any kind of results harder to generalize to the wide population.

    additionally, personnally, I did research and there are limited indications (and I acknowledge that more research is necessary) which ties lower carb diets (while not specifically calling keto out) to the increase in thyroid disorders over the last couple of decades.

    There are people who do IIFYM and just plain old calorie counting who follow those approaches so they can eat a steak with butter and bacon and lose weight. Being able to eat something and still losing weight does not mean that a keto person is only eating steak with butter and bacon any more than it means that an IIFYM person is only eating ice cream, chocolate, or cake because they can fit those things in. I think keto and low carb get that reputation due to the popularity of Atkins a few years ago, that's the food that people associate with low carb due to pop culture and a lack of knowledge about the energy balance and dieting. They think the only way they would get to eat steak and bacon is with a low carb diet - but them saying that doesn't make the diet problematic. That's like saying IIFYM or calorie counting are problematic just because some person thinks that it's diet full of junk because they heard someone say they can eat fast food, chips, and pizza. I imagine this is why the low carbers made such an effort to create a Getting Started document in their group that outlines what the diet is really all about to educate people who are interested in going low carb.

    I think every study I have seen has indicated that more research is needed. That doesn't change the fact that the person making the claim above about keto diets being unhealthy provided sources that weren't exactly steeped in validity and did not support the claim.
  • DmaMfz
    DmaMfz Posts: 125 Member
    edited January 2018
    Options
    kgeyser wrote: »
    deannalfisher wrote: »
    kgeyser wrote: »
    deannalfisher wrote: »
    kgeyser wrote: »
    deannalfisher wrote: »
    sak1962 wrote: »
    megs_1985 wrote: »
    https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/ketogenic-diet-is-the-ultimate-low-carb-diet-good-for-you-2017072712089

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5452247/#!po=21.5596

    As I said ok for a very particular subset of people under a doctor’s supervision but from what I read on here people are doing it because it’s the cool new fad diet that will be the magic pill while never learning how to actually eat a healthy sustainable diet for the long term. Also overtime the results even out overtime with traditional weight loss not making any better so why put yourself through such a restrictive diet to just get the same results but putting yourself at more risk of regaining the weight?

    I don't believe you have the slightest clue how a ketogenic diet works. And the junk articles you cite are some of the most one sided garbage I've seen in quite a while. I personally know lots of people that are living in NK (Nutritional Ketosis). They live great lives and range from stay at home moms to neurosurgeons. Yes living Ketogenic is not for everyone, it takes a little willpower and self control. If you find yourself unable to control what you put in your mouth then this WoE (Way of Eating) is not for you. The crap you are spewing about no fiber , fruits, or vegetables is total BS. Vegetables and fiber actually make up a large part of the diet with this WoE. The only reason fruit is restricted is because it is high in Fructose (Sugar = Carbs). Now let's cover your "Restricts or Bans an entire Macronutrient" statement. Do you mean the way Fat is eliminated or severely restricted in a low fat diet? Maybe I'm reading you wrong. And as for Fad diet....... I guess it's only been around for a bit more than 100 years, so calling it a Fad is a bit egotistical. Try doing a little more reading with a little more variety of viewpoint before you start trying to sound like an expert next time. You are entitled to your personal beliefs but when you start trying to tell people junk science is the only way to go it really gives those of us with our own thoughts and brains a good laugh, but mostly at you and not with you.

    because articles published in peer reviewed journals or by medical schools are junk - correct?

    The articles were supposed to support the claim that the diet is unhealthy, however the Harvard article did not say that the diet is unhealthy; the only possible health issue it stated was the potential to overeat on red meat and fatty, salty, processed foods, which you can do on any diet.

    The other study said the diet is "not totally safe," but in the conclusion states "As KD are often rich in fats, some negative effects could happen. Mainly in rodents, developments of NAFLD and insulin resistance were described. In humans, insulin resistance is also a potential negative effect, but some studies have shown improvements in insulin sensitivity." I don't think rodent studies and inconclusive evidence on insulin resistance are enough to support the claim that the diet is unhealthy.

    my comment was more to do with this comment made:
    And the junk articles you cite are some of the most one sided garbage I've seen in quite a while.

    I realize that, but just because someone found something that says Harvard or comes from PubMed doesn't mean that it should pass without criticism either. The Harvard piece is a blog, with no cited sources, written by a primary care doctor, and one of the most frequent criticisms we see around here are that physicians do not receive a great deal of training in nutrition. His bio does not indicate work specifically in nutrition, or nutrition even listed as an interest, and his article reflects that.

    Take his criticism of the diet - "Because it is so restrictive, it is really hard to follow over the long run. Carbohydrates normally account for at least 50% of the typical American diet. One of the main criticisms of this diet is that many people tend to eat too much protein and poor-quality fats from processed foods, with very few fruits and vegetables." - that does not sound like any keto diet I've seen described on this site. The majority of users here seem to be getting fats from butter, coconut oil, and meat, and tend to be moderate protein if that. But since he didn't cite any sources, who knows where he came up with that.

    unfortuantely while you haven't seen that on the site - I have from newer people and i've had people I've worked with who are trying it make similar comments...to paraphrase one - so i could have a steak with butter and bacon and lose weight...

    I tried to find the link to the Alan Aragon Keto meta-analysis which looked at 200+ keto studies - most of the conculsions of him and the panel of experts was that more long-term research was needed with larger subject pools (this conclusion was based on a the review of the research where many studies only had 10-20 subjects) which makes any kind of results harder to generalize to the wide population.

    additionally, personnally, I did research and there are limited indications (and I acknowledge that more research is necessary) which ties lower carb diets (while not specifically calling keto out) to the increase in thyroid disorders over the last couple of decades.

    There are people who do IIFYM and just plain old calorie counting who follow those approaches so they can eat a steak with butter and bacon and lose weight. Being able to eat something and still losing weight does not mean that a keto person is only eating steak with butter and bacon any more than it means that an IIFYM person is only eating ice cream, chocolate, or cake because they can fit those things in. I think keto and low carb get that reputation due to the popularity of Atkins a few years ago, that's the food that people associate with low carb due to pop culture and a lack of knowledge about the energy balance and dieting. They think the only way they would get to eat steak and bacon is with a low carb diet - but them saying that doesn't make the diet problematic. That's like saying IIFYM or calorie counting are problematic just because some person thinks that it's diet full of junk because they heard someone say they can eat fast food, chips, and pizza. I imagine this is why the low carbers made such an effort to create a Getting Started document in their group that outlines what the diet is really all about to educate people who are interested in going low carb.

    I think every study I have seen has indicated that more research is needed. That doesn't change the fact that the person making the claim above about keto diets being unhealthy provided sources that weren't exactly steeped in validity and did not support the claim.

    To be in ketosis you do have to have VERY limited amounts of carbs. So few that carbs in vegetables can make or break you. Since fruit has a much higher content, that’s pretty much a no because it can be tough to fit it in. The reality is, so much is cut out, and it’s completely unnecessary unless medically advised.

    Why not just count calories, and if you’re more satiated eating fat and protein, just chose those items and stick to your calorie goal? Why limit your options?
  • livingleanlivingclean
    livingleanlivingclean Posts: 11,752 Member
    Options
    AlexMorganMc wrote: »
    megs_1985 wrote: »
    Any diet that restricts or bans an entire macronutrient is not healthy. Sure you can restrict carbs to help lose weight but cutting out fiber, fruits and vegetables seem ridiculous in the long run. The only reason I’ve heard keto actually work is for people with epilepsy as it helps reduce their seizures.

    This is definitely NOT how keto works, and is seriously misinformed. Keto is about reaching an adequate protein goal, keeping net carbs down below 50 grams, and filling the rest of the macro space with fats. There is *no* cutting out fiber or vegetables. Fruits are more limited because of sugar, but adding in lower sugared fruits (raspberries, blackberries, etc.) is absolutely an acceptable part of this diet.

    Net carbs are the number of grams of carbs subtracted by the number of grams of fiber. On a personal level, my total carbs are typically over 80, but my net carbs are in the 30s. How? Because I eat so much fiber from vegetables and berries. Heck, I have a salad once a day at least. I ate a salad for *breakfast* this morning. And all the while I'm strictly staying in ketosis.

    Any diet can be misused. I've seen people doing CICO who live off pizza and vegans who get half their calories from potato chips. They're cutting out entire nutrients too and get themselves skinnier, but unhealthy. By that token, there are obviously some people who are going to take to keto and eat their body weight in bacon daily and then wonder why they're sick, gaining weight, and so constipated they need a doctor to prescribe a laxative powerful enough to clear an elephant.

    However, if you're treating keto (or any other diet) as a lifestyle change to get healthier, then it has shown to be absolutely lovely for some people as a tool for that. It's not the only option, and CICO still applies for weight loss. But it definitely can change the way someone approaches food, can help with satiety, and has been shown to have wonderful effects on multiple systems in the body (including insulin resistance).

    I had a ketogenic diet recommended to me by my *doctor*, as well as the technician who performed my DEXA scan. Again, it isn't the only way to eat that works. However, scaring people away from what could be a great tool for their health by spreading misinformation is not fair in the slightest. What you posted is not what keto is about.

    Now, I'm off to go make myself a tuna and avocado salad on a bed of romaine, celery, and bell peppers. And I'll be having raspberries for dessert. Keto on, fellow low-carbers.

    Vegetables and fruit don't have that much fibre. To me, keto requires severe restriction of vegetables - my usual (preferred) intake of vegies and fruit (more skewed towards vegetables) is generally between 1-2kgs a day. There was no way I could do that doing keto!
  • NaeJayKay
    NaeJayKay Posts: 14 Member
    edited January 2018
    Options
    megs_1985 wrote: »
    https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/ketogenic-diet-is-the-ultimate-low-carb-diet-good-for-you-2017072712089

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5452247/#!po=21.5596

    As I said ok for a very particular subset of people under a doctor’s supervision but from what I read on here people are doing it because it’s the cool new fad diet that will be the magic pill while never learning how to actually eat a healthy sustainable diet for the long term. Also overtime the results even out overtime with traditional weight loss not making any better so why put yourself through such a restrictive diet to just get the same results but putting yourself at more risk of regaining the weight?

    I totally get where you're coming from. I used to be fit - weight trained 3 days a week and did cardio, ate healthy, slept good, and then I took on a stressful job and everything changed (happened slowly so the unhealthy change was unnoticeable). I did healthy eating for the past 35 days and lost 16 pounds, however, I have pcos and I've read and have been told that it's a good diet to reverse insulin resistance. At the moment, I'm still gathering information to see what I'll choose to do, which is why a variety of opinions and knowledge is valuable.
  • nvmomketo
    nvmomketo Posts: 12,019 Member
    Options
    livingleanlivingclean wrote: »
    AlexMorganMc wrote: »
    megs_1985 wrote: »
    Any diet that restricts or bans an entire macronutrient is not healthy. Sure you can restrict carbs to help lose weight but cutting out fiber, fruits and vegetables seem ridiculous in the long run. The only reason I’ve heard keto actually work is for people with epilepsy as it helps reduce their seizures.

    This is definitely NOT how keto works, and is seriously misinformed. Keto is about reaching an adequate protein goal, keeping net carbs down below 50 grams, and filling the rest of the macro space with fats. There is *no* cutting out fiber or vegetables. Fruits are more limited because of sugar, but adding in lower sugared fruits (raspberries, blackberries, etc.) is absolutely an acceptable part of this diet.

    Net carbs are the number of grams of carbs subtracted by the number of grams of fiber. On a personal level, my total carbs are typically over 80, but my net carbs are in the 30s. How? Because I eat so much fiber from vegetables and berries. Heck, I have a salad once a day at least. I ate a salad for *breakfast* this morning. And all the while I'm strictly staying in ketosis.

    Any diet can be misused. I've seen people doing CICO who live off pizza and vegans who get half their calories from potato chips. They're cutting out entire nutrients too and get themselves skinnier, but unhealthy. By that token, there are obviously some people who are going to take to keto and eat their body weight in bacon daily and then wonder why they're sick, gaining weight, and so constipated they need a doctor to prescribe a laxative powerful enough to clear an elephant.

    However, if you're treating keto (or any other diet) as a lifestyle change to get healthier, then it has shown to be absolutely lovely for some people as a tool for that. It's not the only option, and CICO still applies for weight loss. But it definitely can change the way someone approaches food, can help with satiety, and has been shown to have wonderful effects on multiple systems in the body (including insulin resistance).

    I had a ketogenic diet recommended to me by my *doctor*, as well as the technician who performed my DEXA scan. Again, it isn't the only way to eat that works. However, scaring people away from what could be a great tool for their health by spreading misinformation is not fair in the slightest. What you posted is not what keto is about.

    Now, I'm off to go make myself a tuna and avocado salad on a bed of romaine, celery, and bell peppers. And I'll be having raspberries for dessert. Keto on, fellow low-carbers.

    Vegetables and fruit don't have that much fibre. To me, keto requires severe restriction of vegetables - my usual (preferred) intake of vegies and fruit (more skewed towards vegetables) is generally between 1-2kgs a day. There was no way I could do that doing keto!

    Keto can be quite low fibre for some people. My own diet is pretty low fibre because fibre containing foods causes constipation and some pain for me. The carbs I do eat tend to be high in fibre (nuts, cucs, greens, etc) but I choose to eat very little of it. If my carbs do hit 30g a day, that includes veggies at every meal.

    Personally, I think fibre is really over rated. I think it's digestive importance applies to plant digestion. If you are not eating a lot of plants, fibre loses its importance.

Categories