Do naturally thin people actually think different?
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I often observe how my thin friends eat, out of curiosity, and compare it to my own behaviour. I've observed different things with different people:
- Some say "I'm lucky, I can eat as much as I want and won't gain weight". But, the secret isn't a super fast metabolism, the secret is that the "as much as they want" is much less food than I want to have. Their definition and my definition of a large portion are quite different
- Some don't have strong hunger signals and can go hours and hours without food and can forget to eat. I joke that I have a Pacman inside my stomach, going around all the time looking for food, going feed me, feed me...I've never forgotten to eat in my life
- Many are able to not finish their portions and leave food on their plates, including food they they think is delicious. I'm not able to do that, not even with average tasting food. Maybe, just about, I can leave food on my plate if it's below average tasting, but 99% of the time I eat everything that's on my plate, because it's on my plate
- Many are quite clear when they feel sated and stop eating. I often feel still ravenously hungry after a meal, and it takes about an hour after eating to feel sated. If during that hour food is still available to me, I might eat more.
- Some just don't care about food and see it as fuel. I LOVE food. I'm passionate about food. I love shopping for it, love cooking, love eating.
- Some people have an aversion towards fats and find rich food nauseating. They will always leave out creamy sauces, any visible fats in meat etc. When I was a child, I was known to eat mayo straight from the jar and I love fats in meat. I don't feel sated after eating even large portions of low fat food.
- Some are just really disciplined about their eating and exercise regimes
By the way I'm now in maintenance with a BMI of about 22.5-23, but it's a constant effort to not overeat.18 -
I have been told many times in my life that I'm lucky to be naturally thin, but the truth is I make conscious choices about what I'm eating every day since I was a young teenager. I can tell you roughly the calorie count in pretty much anything without looking just from years and years of practice.
The only thing I can say does come easily is that I'm a stress non-eater in times I'm really stressed, like wedding planning, and at those time weight comes off, sometimes too much.
One habit I have that I've noticed many of my other thin friends do also is that I have no shame in asking to box food up, even if it's not that much. This keeps me from overeating when out because I feel like I "need to get my money's worth" and it provides multiple small meals from one large meal, keeping me full way longer. If I can't get something boxed, I will finish the meat and leave the rest - a habit from my father always telling me to finish the meat on my plate growing up. If I have kids, I think I will never "reward" them for clearing their plate, because I've heard from so many people that they can't get out of the mindset of needing to clear their plate later in life.6 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »CattOfTheGarage wrote: »All the "naturally thin" people I know (my husband and all my in-laws) genuinely don't want food if they're not hungry. That's the main difference I notice.
They also get antsy when they have eaten a lot, and want to get up and go for a long walk or something. It's not necessarily the same day, might be the following day, but it happens. They also eat less on following days.
It's not a difference in how they and I *think*. They barely think about it at all. It's a difference in feelings and reactions.
Intuitive eating like that just blows my mind. I know a lot of people like this. The concept of body and mind being so in tune and autoregulating the calorie intake and expendurw without much concious awareness of the process! That's how our bodies are supposed to.work idea. But I don't think i'll ever be alble to learn this. I've had disordered eating since I was 10 and later a full blown ED. My hunger cues are forever messed up. Still I often dream that some day I'll ve able to mentain not trough logging, not even through habit but intuitively.
I don't actually think that's how our bodies are supposed to work or that not being able to do that makes you messed up.
For most of human history access to food was insecure and it was beneficial to be able to/want to eat when it was available, even if that meant putting on some weight, and to be able to go without for a while too. Thus, it seems totally normal and even beneficial to want to eat based on cues like food being available and nearby, even if you just ate, and to find food desirable when it has qualities consistent with it being high cal (high in fat and sugar), and for variety to mean that you eat more (during most of human history wanting a variety would have meant getting a variety of nutrients, and good for you, not wanting to eat pie after having a huge steak).
Thus, it's really not surprising to me that a majority of people seem to easily become overweight or obese in the current environment (more, really), and only a small minority seem not to have to work at staying slim to avoid obesity. I don't think that's because all of us who find it easy to overeat have messed up hunger signals (vs. just responding to cues in a normal human way).
I think emotional eating can be messed up signals, but wanting to eat easily more than you actually need is probably just normal. Some are different, but not because the rest of us must be screwed up.
That's why I don't believe in intuitive eating for myself (or probably most). I don't log at maintenance, but not because I can intuitively eat; because I make a point of mindfully eating.
Do you live in the US? I don't know how true it is about the majority of people being overweight there, but you know, things are not everywhere like this. And it's not only about industrialized nations and availability of food. I live in France and the majority of (middle and upper class) people are at a healthy weight despite aggressive availability of food that isn't much different from the US. Lower class people may have slightly different statistics (when you're financially insecure all the time, people tend to overeat on cheap foods sporadically).
The vast majority of my friends and colleagues are at a healthy weight and they appear to be intuitive earing. The food is just as available as in the US and almost just as advertized etc. It's just that the culture around food is different. People are used to eat healthy portions of foods and regular times and snacking us somewhat discouraged. I'm not saying there are no overweight people or no eating disorders. There are, of course, and I know several people with food problems. But a lot or the majority of people I interact with on a daily basis appear to be "intuitive eaters". They stop when they are full e en when there's more delicious food available, even if there's still food on their plate. They eat sweet and junk food quite often but they stop after eating a little. They don't think much about food at all outside of meal times. And some are just used to eating one or 2 meals a day and don't even feel peckish in between.
I come from another European country, which is also economically devepped and has a somewhat different food culture, but the weight statistics are similar.
So I think that even though it makes a lot of sense to say "we are evolutionary disigned to overeat if food is available", in reality our bodies are more complicated than that. I think our bodies evolved beyond the idea of a constant threat of famine. If not the majority of people in all industrialized countries would be overweight. But this doesn't appear to be true.6 -
My eldest daughter struggles to maintain her weight and eats a healthy diet with the occasional treat. My youngest daughter has hollow legs and is perpetually hungry. She eats three good meals a day and fills up in between with crisps, sweets, croissants, pain au chocolat.....in fact anything she can lay her hands on apart from fruit and yoghurts.3
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My husband is very lean. However he eats more than I’ve ever seen anyone eat. 1st lunch and 2nd lunch and 1st dinner tend to be his biggest meals. But he also works construction.0
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cmriverside wrote: »Which one are you and what do you think about food?
I'm naturally .... average. Neither thin nor fat. I have what you would call an 'athletic build.' Not much in the way of body fat and enough muscle definition for others to notice. I would just like to slim down a couple of pounds, that's all.
As for what I think of food, there's nothing special about it. If I want something, I'll eat it. But I don't feel the need to finish everything just because it's there. My view of food is nothing special; it's quite average, I would say. When I'm hungry I eat. When I'm full I stop. Surely that can't be too radical?
The only reason why I'm here is because the only thing I really know about weight loss is that you eat less and move more. But the move more part is optional (or something like that). So to make sure I'm eating less, I track.0 -
kristen8000 wrote: »There is no such thing as "naturally thin".
Why do you say this? Not being rude, genuinely curious.0 -
That assumes that all "overweight" people think about food in the same way, which I think we would all agree isn't true. Everyone is an individual, and everyone has their own thoughts, issues and approaches they need to work through. Some people may have preferences or habits that make it easier for them to maintain their weight, and you can learn to use those habits to your advantage. Other people put in a lot of work to maintain theirs, and it's a little unfair not to give them credit for their hard work.
That makes sense. Didn't mean to belittle anyone; I just saw the term on a few other friends so I was curious as to what the general mfp population thought.0 -
Based on the replies, it seems that the whole Naturally Thin thing is an attempt to generalize thinner people. I guess it's like any other generalization: it hits a few commonalities but it doesn't give the whole picture. At the end of the day, people are people and everyone is different.6
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lemurcat12 wrote: »CattOfTheGarage wrote: »All the "naturally thin" people I know (my husband and all my in-laws) genuinely don't want food if they're not hungry. That's the main difference I notice.
They also get antsy when they have eaten a lot, and want to get up and go for a long walk or something. It's not necessarily the same day, might be the following day, but it happens. They also eat less on following days.
It's not a difference in how they and I *think*. They barely think about it at all. It's a difference in feelings and reactions.
Intuitive eating like that just blows my mind. I know a lot of people like this. The concept of body and mind being so in tune and autoregulating the calorie intake and expendurw without much concious awareness of the process! That's how our bodies are supposed to.work idea. But I don't think i'll ever be alble to learn this. I've had disordered eating since I was 10 and later a full blown ED. My hunger cues are forever messed up. Still I often dream that some day I'll ve able to mentain not trough logging, not even through habit but intuitively.
I don't actually think that's how our bodies are supposed to work or that not being able to do that makes you messed up.
For most of human history access to food was insecure and it was beneficial to be able to/want to eat when it was available, even if that meant putting on some weight, and to be able to go without for a while too. Thus, it seems totally normal and even beneficial to want to eat based on cues like food being available and nearby, even if you just ate, and to find food desirable when it has qualities consistent with it being high cal (high in fat and sugar), and for variety to mean that you eat more (during most of human history wanting a variety would have meant getting a variety of nutrients, and good for you, not wanting to eat pie after having a huge steak).
Thus, it's really not surprising to me that a majority of people seem to easily become overweight or obese in the current environment (more, really), and only a small minority seem not to have to work at staying slim to avoid obesity. I don't think that's because all of us who find it easy to overeat have messed up hunger signals (vs. just responding to cues in a normal human way).
I think emotional eating can be messed up signals, but wanting to eat easily more than you actually need is probably just normal. Some are different, but not because the rest of us must be screwed up.
That's why I don't believe in intuitive eating for myself (or probably most). I don't log at maintenance, but not because I can intuitively eat; because I make a point of mindfully eating.
Do you live in the US? I don't know how true it is about the majority of people being overweight there, but you know, things are not everywhere like this.
I do, and the stats are about 66% overweight, but it's moving in our direction elsewhere. I know the UK certainly is, but from the stats so is the rest of Europe, including France.
But that's about environment. I talked upthread about how even though I can't intuitively eat I was never overweight earlier in life, because of my environment and lifestyle. I think France has a healthier environment (food wise) in a lot of ways. That doesn't mean people intuitively eat and wouldn't overeat given the right circumstances (or the wrong one). When the environment exists to maximize food availability and remove barriers to overeating (cultural ideas about when and what to eat), it seems only a minority (increasingly a small minority) can avoid being overweight without imposing such restrictions on themselves (as I do with mindful eating, as I see my sister -- who has never been overweight -- doing to avoid becoming overweight).
So that's why I think this false idea that if we were just not messed up we'd naturally be able to avoid overeating in any environment is unhelpful. It's natural for humans to overeat in the kind of food environment many of us currently live in. Wanting to is NOT messed up, needing to learn how not to and not just thinking it should be intuitive is, IMO, realistic.The vast majority of my friends and colleagues are at a healthy weight and they appear to be intuitive earing.
As an aside, lots of people I used to think were lucky and never had to think about what they eat do, in fact, think about what they eat. This is increasingly true as people get older and often less active without needing to intentionally exercise. My sister is one (she's always been thin, but not naturally thin as the thread means), but there are many others. I know people I'd call naturally thin too, but they aren't necessarily the majority of thin people.So I think that even though it makes a lot of sense to say "we are evolutionary disigned to overeat if food is available", in reality our bodies are more complicated than that. I think our bodies evolved beyond the idea of a constant threat of famine. If not the majority of people in all industrialized countries would be overweight. But this doesn't appear to be true.
I think we have cultural restrictions on food that used to limit what we ate (in addition to shortages). In the US those used to exist (I think they were why we weren't so fat when I was growing up), but don't any more, and I see the same patterns in Europe and elsewhere, as I mentioned. But cultural restrictions are something other than intuitive eating, this idea that we just naturally will never want to eat more than we need over the course of a week. It's actually more like what I'm trying to achieve with mindful eating, although it would be easier if culture were consistent with it.1 -
My parents were both thin and food for them was just a necessity to stay alive. They didn't plan events focused on food, instead they'd plan fishing or camping trips. They'd go to the park for walks or to a nearby festival to look at the crafts and just enjoy themselves. They even noticed the difference in how they thought about food compared to others. They said some people live to eat while they simply ate to live. My dad eats hot dogs and sweets almost daily but his meals are small and he's very active, even in his mid 70s. For me, I was introduced to good food when I met my husband's family. All of their events centered on big meals. I liked that! Ha but I gained 50 pounds over the years and have struggled since to have a better relationship with food and not center every weekend adventure or family gathering around eating too much.0
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change4char wrote: »I think peoples answers will be different based on how they classify "naturally thin." When I hear this phrase I think of people who have high metabolisms. Two people could be the same height/sex/activity level and think about food the same. They may equally enjoy food and eat the same meals, but one could end up larger than the other.
The variation in base calorie requirements between reasonably healthy/normal people of the same size is much smaller than one might expect - a few hundred calories a day.
On the unhappy side of that differential, a few hundred calories seems like a lot . . . when someone else gets to eat it, but you don't. Totally true, totally understandable.
However, it's only something like one candy bar, a small sandwich, an order of fries, or half a mocha latte daily (not all of those - just one
). That's really easy to eat beyond, even for the lucky so-called "fast metabolism" people.
These (maximum, rare) few hundred calorie differences in resting metabolic rate are of roughly the same order of magnitude in calories as an extra daily workout; a moderately active vs. sedentary home, hobby, or work life; or being fidget-y vs. non-fidget-y (not all of those, either - just one ).
Metabolic differences alone are not enough to explain "naturally thin" people.
And, given that intentionally moving more can create the same magnitude of difference in calorie burn, many of those of us not "naturally thin" can pretty easily change our habits to burn as many calories as the "metabolically lucky".
Details about metabolic variability here:
https://examine.com/nutrition/does-metabolism-vary-between-two-people/
There are myriad reasons why some of us get fat, and others remain thin . . . as many combinations of reasons as there are people, I'd guess. I think most of the "naturally thin" idea is a myth . . . wishful thinking by those of us who wish we were.
@AnnPT77
IMO Metabolic differences alone easily explain many “naturally thin” people. If that slow metabolism person ate those 200 extra calories you dismiss as “not much anyway’ (paraphrased) that is 73000 calories a year or 20 pounds weight gain per year. The person who eats those 73000 calories and is thin: that’s naturally thin, comparatively.
Why is someone thin? Sure for similar varied types of reasons as someone might be overweight and some obese.
But, Imo “naturally” thin folk are the ones whose metabolisms and/or instinctive activity rates and/or hunger satiety signals function well. Some thin folk have to WORK at it because one or all of those signals don’t function as well (or other challenges). (These would be the thin but not naturally thin types). But, yes, some thin people are thin without conscious effort or lifestyle changes etc. - i.e. naturally thin.
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I was "naturally thin" until I wasn't. People aren't magically one or the other.9
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I was "naturally thin" until I wasn't. People aren't magically one or the other.
How does this answer my question? I never said people are magically one or the other. My question was this:
Is there an actual difference between the way naturally thin people and overweight people think?
The implication is that there may or may not be an actual difference. The implication is also that people are of different sizes. I am simply asking if there is a comparison between 2 of the hundreds of variations of generalized body types/sizes.4 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »CattOfTheGarage wrote: »All the "naturally thin" people I know (my husband and all my in-laws) genuinely don't want food if they're not hungry. That's the main difference I notice.
They also get antsy when they have eaten a lot, and want to get up and go for a long walk or something. It's not necessarily the same day, might be the following day, but it happens. They also eat less on following days.
It's not a difference in how they and I *think*. They barely think about it at all. It's a difference in feelings and reactions.
Intuitive eating like that just blows my mind. I know a lot of people like this. The concept of body and mind being so in tune and autoregulating the calorie intake and expendurw without much concious awareness of the process! That's how our bodies are supposed to.work idea. But I don't think i'll ever be alble to learn this. I've had disordered eating since I was 10 and later a full blown ED. My hunger cues are forever messed up. Still I often dream that some day I'll ve able to mentain not trough logging, not even through habit but intuitively.
I don't actually think that's how our bodies are supposed to work or that not being able to do that makes you messed up.
For most of human history access to food was insecure and it was beneficial to be able to/want to eat when it was available, even if that meant putting on some weight, and to be able to go without for a while too. Thus, it seems totally normal and even beneficial to want to eat based on cues like food being available and nearby, even if you just ate, and to find food desirable when it has qualities consistent with it being high cal (high in fat and sugar), and for variety to mean that you eat more (during most of human history wanting a variety would have meant getting a variety of nutrients, and good for you, not wanting to eat pie after having a huge steak).
Thus, it's really not surprising to me that a majority of people seem to easily become overweight or obese in the current environment (more, really), and only a small minority seem not to have to work at staying slim to avoid obesity. I don't think that's because all of us who find it easy to overeat have messed up hunger signals (vs. just responding to cues in a normal human way).
I think emotional eating can be messed up signals, but wanting to eat easily more than you actually need is probably just normal. Some are different, but not because the rest of us must be screwed up.
That's why I don't believe in intuitive eating for myself (or probably most). I don't log at maintenance, but not because I can intuitively eat; because I make a point of mindfully eating.
Do you live in the US? I don't know how true it is about the majority of people being overweight there, but you know, things are not everywhere like this. And it's not only about industrialized nations and availability of food. I live in France and the majority of (middle and upper class) people are at a healthy weight despite aggressive availability of food that isn't much different from the US. Lower class people may have slightly different statistics (when you're financially insecure all the time, people tend to overeat on cheap foods sporadically).
The vast majority of my friends and colleagues are at a healthy weight and they appear to be intuitive earing. The food is just as available as in the US and almost just as advertized etc. It's just that the culture around food is different. People are used to eat healthy portions of foods and regular times and snacking us somewhat discouraged. I'm not saying there are no overweight people or no eating disorders. There are, of course, and I know several people with food problems. But a lot or the majority of people I interact with on a daily basis appear to be "intuitive eaters". They stop when they are full e en when there's more delicious food available, even if there's still food on their plate. They eat sweet and junk food quite often but they stop after eating a little. They don't think much about food at all outside of meal times. And some are just used to eating one or 2 meals a day and don't even feel peckish in between.
I come from another European country, which is also economically devepped and has a somewhat different food culture, but the weight statistics are similar.
So I think that even though it makes a lot of sense to say "we are evolutionary disigned to overeat if food is available", in reality our bodies are more complicated than that. I think our bodies evolved beyond the idea of a constant threat of famine. If not the majority of people in all industrialized countries would be overweight. But this doesn't appear to be true.
I see your point, but I think you missed two important (and related) environmental and cultural differences between the US and Europe: daily activity level and access to fresh food. European countries are set up to support and encourage walking and biking in a way that the United States simply isn't. Both cities and rural areas in the US are very car-centric both by design and simple geography. Looking at vehicles per capita, the US is 795 per 1000 people, while France is 578 per 1000 people. That isn't about wealth, it's about culture and necessity.
Related to that, I don't think the US encourages cooking at home to nearly the extent much of Europe does. It's harder to find fresh food in much of the US, and since we work longer hours on average across the economic spectrum, making the time to cook becomes more difficult and less of a priority. When you take our relative lack of a social safety net into account, the differences just grow more profound. Looking at obesity rates across the globe, New Zealand, Canada, Australia and South Africa all have higher obesity rates than any European country, and I suspect that similar factors are in play.4 -
No it's not true. There are plenty of naturally thin people who eat like crap, they just have higher metabolisms. There are others that do eat healthy. There are others that simply eat to nourish, rather than for enjoyment.
Bottom line - EVERYONE IS DIFFERENT.12 -
kristen8000 wrote: »There is no such thing as "naturally thin".
How is there not? There absolutely is people who are naturally thin within putting any effort into it. It's scientifically proven. It's called a high metabolism. Some people are gifted.13 -
CatchMom13 wrote: »kristen8000 wrote: »There is no such thing as "naturally thin".
How is there not? There absolutely is people who are naturally thin within putting any effort into it. It's scientifically proven. It's called a high metabolism. Some people are gifted.
No, it is called behavior. There is no significant in metabolism between two people of the same height, weight, and activity level.8 -
Noreenmarie1234 wrote: »CatchMom13 wrote: »kristen8000 wrote: »There is no such thing as "naturally thin".
How is there not? There absolutely is people who are naturally thin within putting any effort into it. It's scientifically proven. It's called a high metabolism. Some people are gifted.
No, it is called behavior. There is no significant in metabolism between two people of the same height, weight, and activity level.
Well, I would call 200 to 600 calories a day significant.
https://examine.com/nutrition/does-metabolism-vary-between-two-people/8 -
I was naturally thin up until several years. And then I quit smoking. Now I'm no longer naturally thin. I lost the gained weight but can no longer maintain without depriving myself.
Where my brain was craving a cigarette is now craving food. Even after almost 3 years not smoking. I have no desire to light up now. But I think of food every couple of minutes. I don't think I will be naturally thin ever again.
I used to smoke around 40 cigs a day for 20 years. My brain is sadly ruined by that.
The fact that due to health issues I'm completely sedentiary and maintain at 1500cals doesn't help at all. I used to be able to exercise a bit but now I can't.
I'm really strugling.4
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