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Another Debate: starvation mode, hydration, and whatever else came up along the way
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This discussion was created from replies split from: I don't lose weight.
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How do you explain anorexics getting skinny then?lose your scale - its never been an evaluate of mine - noting beats a good pair of pants and a mirror -first you need to eat to be healthy --- you are eating to few calories your body is shutting down under those conditions meaning your metabolism is going into starvation mode - it says essentially - hey I am not getting enough calories so i am going to stop burning them - secondly you are not going to put on muscle mass with those few calories - muscle weight more and uses less space - which is why I say lose the scale and look at the mirror.
your percentages are off - in your case 40%(protein)/35%(fat)/25%(carbs) - also cardio at the end of your workouts not at the beginning - your protein shod be approx 140 grams daily - your fat can be higher (trust be fat you need) Carbs are needed - but lower than what most believe - you are 800 short daily on your calorie count
Get most of your carbs from vegetables
800 Cal/ Protien
700 Cal/Fat
500 Cal/Carbs
Drink 4L water/day
(Hint: Because "starvation mode" is a myth)
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How do you explain anorexics getting skinny then?lose your scale - its never been an evaluate of mine - noting beats a good pair of pants and a mirror -first you need to eat to be healthy --- you are eating to few calories your body is shutting down under those conditions meaning your metabolism is going into starvation mode - it says essentially - hey I am not getting enough calories so i am going to stop burning them - secondly you are not going to put on muscle mass with those few calories - muscle weight more and uses less space - which is why I say lose the scale and look at the mirror.
your percentages are off - in your case 40%(protein)/35%(fat)/25%(carbs) - also cardio at the end of your workouts not at the beginning - your protein shod be approx 140 grams daily - your fat can be higher (trust be fat you need) Carbs are needed - but lower than what most believe - you are 800 short daily on your calorie count
Get most of your carbs from vegetables
800 Cal/ Protien
700 Cal/Fat
500 Cal/Carbs
Drink 4L water/day
(Hint: Because "starvation mode" is a myth)
No Calories period you will lose weight yes - muscle mass too thus the heart related issue and insuring death - and yes your metabolism still shuts down which is why lethargy is a huge problem for people with eating disorders - look at starving people - they are laying down waiting to die not our running marathons
Undereating by a couple hundred calories =/= malnutrition and dying of starvation.17 -
How do you explain anorexics getting skinny then?lose your scale - its never been an evaluate of mine - noting beats a good pair of pants and a mirror -first you need to eat to be healthy --- you are eating to few calories your body is shutting down under those conditions meaning your metabolism is going into starvation mode - it says essentially - hey I am not getting enough calories so i am going to stop burning them - secondly you are not going to put on muscle mass with those few calories - muscle weight more and uses less space - which is why I say lose the scale and look at the mirror.
your percentages are off - in your case 40%(protein)/35%(fat)/25%(carbs) - also cardio at the end of your workouts not at the beginning - your protein shod be approx 140 grams daily - your fat can be higher (trust be fat you need) Carbs are needed - but lower than what most believe - you are 800 short daily on your calorie count
Get most of your carbs from vegetables
800 Cal/ Protien
700 Cal/Fat
500 Cal/Carbs
Drink 4L water/day
(Hint: Because "starvation mode" is a myth)
No Calories period you will lose weight yes - muscle mass too thus the heart related issue and insuring death - and yes your metabolism still shuts down which is why lethargy is a huge problem for people with eating disorders - look at starving people - they are laying down waiting to die not our running marathons
You're partly right. Starving people do lose energy.
But you said:
"hey I am not getting enough calories so i am going to stop burning them."
That portion is untrue. Your body will cannibalize itself to get the energy/calories it needs to try to stay alive, it won't stop burning calories. When your body stops burning calories, you're dead.18 -
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quiksylver296 wrote: »
How do you explain anorexics getting skinny then?lose your scale - its never been an evaluate of mine - noting beats a good pair of pants and a mirror -first you need to eat to be healthy --- you are eating to few calories your body is shutting down under those conditions meaning your metabolism is going into starvation mode - it says essentially - hey I am not getting enough calories so i am going to stop burning them - secondly you are not going to put on muscle mass with those few calories - muscle weight more and uses less space - which is why I say lose the scale and look at the mirror.
your percentages are off - in your case 40%(protein)/35%(fat)/25%(carbs) - also cardio at the end of your workouts not at the beginning - your protein shod be approx 140 grams daily - your fat can be higher (trust be fat you need) Carbs are needed - but lower than what most believe - you are 800 short daily on your calorie count
Get most of your carbs from vegetables
800 Cal/ Protien
700 Cal/Fat
500 Cal/Carbs
Drink 4L water/day
(Hint: Because "starvation mode" is a myth)
No Calories period you will lose weight yes - muscle mass too thus the heart related issue and insuring death - and yes your metabolism still shuts down which is why lethargy is a huge problem for people with eating disorders - look at starving people - they are laying down waiting to die not our running marathons
You're partly right. Starving people do lose energy.
But you said:
"hey I am not getting enough calories so i am going to stop burning them."
That portion is untrue. Your body will cannibalize itself to get the energy/calories it needs to try to stay alive, it won't stop burning calories. When your body stops burning calories, you're dead.
No its true your body will stop the rate of burn if it detect a long term fluctuation in calorie consumption
No, it won't. If your body stops burning calories, you are dead. Basic physiological functions require calories are burned.
It may reduce non-essential functions, and that may reduce calorie burn, but it will not stop. And I'm talking like concentration camp here, not "I'm on a diet."15 -
Not as much as you apparently believe it will:
How do you explain anorexics getting skinny then?lose your scale - its never been an evaluate of mine - noting beats a good pair of pants and a mirror -first you need to eat to be healthy --- you are eating to few calories your body is shutting down under those conditions meaning your metabolism is going into starvation mode - it says essentially - hey I am not getting enough calories so i am going to stop burning them - secondly you are not going to put on muscle mass with those few calories - muscle weight more and uses less space - which is why I say lose the scale and look at the mirror.
your percentages are off - in your case 40%(protein)/35%(fat)/25%(carbs) - also cardio at the end of your workouts not at the beginning - your protein shod be approx 140 grams daily - your fat can be higher (trust be fat you need) Carbs are needed - but lower than what most believe - you are 800 short daily on your calorie count
Get most of your carbs from vegetables
800 Cal/ Protien
700 Cal/Fat
500 Cal/Carbs
Drink 4L water/day
(Hint: Because "starvation mode" is a myth)
No Calories period you will lose weight yes - muscle mass too thus the heart related issue and insuring death - and yes your metabolism still shuts down which is why lethargy is a huge problem for people with eating disorders - look at starving people - they are laying down waiting to die not our running marathons
Undereating by a couple hundred calories =/= malnutrition and dying of starvation.
under eating????? she is consuming 1200 calories a day her minimum just to live is 1200 now she throws in 500 cal a day of exercise coupled with the muscle damage repair of lifting YEP her body will be stealing form her bones and muscle for those calories and minerals - and her Metabolic rate will decrease so her body can live - its a well documented evolutionary process
https://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/another-look-at-metabolic-damage.html/
Excerpt:But irrespective of that, let’s address what seems like a fairly simple question: Can the drop in metabolic rate, due to the drop in bodyweight and the adaptive component EVER be sufficient to completely eliminate true fat loss?
And the answer, at least based on the last 80 years of studies into the topic (in humans, NOT animal models) says no. Perhaps the classic study in this regard was the oft-quoted (and oft- misunderstood) Minnesota Semi-Starvation Study. In it, a dozen or so war objectors got to avoid going to war and arguably got into something worse. That is, researchers wanted to study long- term starvation as might occur during war or famine or being held in a prisoner camp.
Specifically the men were put on 50% of their maintenance calories, subject to forced daily activity (walking, NO weight training) and basically had their lives controlled and managed for 6 months. And in various sub-analyses, it was found that, by the end of the study the total drop in metabolic rate was nearly 40%. That is, of the original 50% deficit in calories, 80% of it had been offset. Of that 40%, a full 25% was simply due to the reduced bodyweight. Again, lighter bodies burn less calories and there’s no getting around it. But that also means that the adaptive component of metabolic rate reduction was only 15%. Which is about the largest drop ever measured (most studies measure less).
But here’s the punchline, the men had also reached the limits of human leanness. They were in the realm of 4-5% body fat by this point in the study. Even though their fat loss had basically stopped (and at some points in the study WEIGHT loss stopped due to severe water retention) it didn’t occur until they reached ultimate leanness (NB: the claims of bodybuilders to be 2-3% bodyfat is a measurement error). And even they were still losing tiny amounts of weight/fat. It just wouldn’t have amounted to much since most of the deficit had been offset by the metabolic rate reduction.11 -
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quiksylver296 wrote: »quiksylver296 wrote: »
How do you explain anorexics getting skinny then?lose your scale - its never been an evaluate of mine - noting beats a good pair of pants and a mirror -first you need to eat to be healthy --- you are eating to few calories your body is shutting down under those conditions meaning your metabolism is going into starvation mode - it says essentially - hey I am not getting enough calories so i am going to stop burning them - secondly you are not going to put on muscle mass with those few calories - muscle weight more and uses less space - which is why I say lose the scale and look at the mirror.
your percentages are off - in your case 40%(protein)/35%(fat)/25%(carbs) - also cardio at the end of your workouts not at the beginning - your protein shod be approx 140 grams daily - your fat can be higher (trust be fat you need) Carbs are needed - but lower than what most believe - you are 800 short daily on your calorie count
Get most of your carbs from vegetables
800 Cal/ Protien
700 Cal/Fat
500 Cal/Carbs
Drink 4L water/day
(Hint: Because "starvation mode" is a myth)
No Calories period you will lose weight yes - muscle mass too thus the heart related issue and insuring death - and yes your metabolism still shuts down which is why lethargy is a huge problem for people with eating disorders - look at starving people - they are laying down waiting to die not our running marathons
You're partly right. Starving people do lose energy.
But you said:
"hey I am not getting enough calories so i am going to stop burning them."
That portion is untrue. Your body will cannibalize itself to get the energy/calories it needs to try to stay alive, it won't stop burning calories. When your body stops burning calories, you're dead.
No its true your body will stop the rate of burn if it detect a long term fluctuation in calorie consumption
No, it won't. If your body stops burning calories, you are dead. Basic physiological functions require calories are burned.
It may reduce non-essential functions, and that may reduce calorie burn, but it will not stop. And I'm talking like concentration camp here, not "I'm on a diet."
Didn't say it stops completely but is DOES reduce "rate" of burn and yes you will die if you don;t consume enough calories
You said it stops. Multiple times.15 -
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Carlos_421 wrote: »quiksylver296 wrote: »quiksylver296 wrote: »
How do you explain anorexics getting skinny then?lose your scale - its never been an evaluate of mine - noting beats a good pair of pants and a mirror -first you need to eat to be healthy --- you are eating to few calories your body is shutting down under those conditions meaning your metabolism is going into starvation mode - it says essentially - hey I am not getting enough calories so i am going to stop burning them - secondly you are not going to put on muscle mass with those few calories - muscle weight more and uses less space - which is why I say lose the scale and look at the mirror.
your percentages are off - in your case 40%(protein)/35%(fat)/25%(carbs) - also cardio at the end of your workouts not at the beginning - your protein shod be approx 140 grams daily - your fat can be higher (trust be fat you need) Carbs are needed - but lower than what most believe - you are 800 short daily on your calorie count
Get most of your carbs from vegetables
800 Cal/ Protien
700 Cal/Fat
500 Cal/Carbs
Drink 4L water/day
(Hint: Because "starvation mode" is a myth)
No Calories period you will lose weight yes - muscle mass too thus the heart related issue and insuring death - and yes your metabolism still shuts down which is why lethargy is a huge problem for people with eating disorders - look at starving people - they are laying down waiting to die not our running marathons
You're partly right. Starving people do lose energy.
But you said:
"hey I am not getting enough calories so i am going to stop burning them."
That portion is untrue. Your body will cannibalize itself to get the energy/calories it needs to try to stay alive, it won't stop burning calories. When your body stops burning calories, you're dead.
No its true your body will stop the rate of burn if it detect a long term fluctuation in calorie consumption
No, it won't. If your body stops burning calories, you are dead. Basic physiological functions require calories are burned.
It may reduce non-essential functions, and that may reduce calorie burn, but it will not stop. And I'm talking like concentration camp here, not "I'm on a diet."
Didn't say it stops completely but is DOES reduce "rate" of burn and yes you will die if you don;t consume enough calories
You said it stops. Multiple times.
Yep.10 -
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Didn't say it stops completely but is DOES reduce "rate" of burn and yes you will die if you don;t consume enough calories
You didn't?...you are eating to few calories your body is shutting down under those conditions meaning your metabolism is going into starvation mode - it says essentially - hey I am not getting enough calories so i am going to stop burning them...No Calories period you will lose weight yes - muscle mass too thus the heart related issue and insuring death - and yes your metabolism still shuts down which is why lethargy is a huge problem for people with eating disorders - look at starving people - they are laying down waiting to die not our running marathonsNo its true your body will stop the rate of burn if it detect a long term fluctuation in calorie consumption
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quiksylver296 wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »quiksylver296 wrote: »quiksylver296 wrote: »
How do you explain anorexics getting skinny then?lose your scale - its never been an evaluate of mine - noting beats a good pair of pants and a mirror -first you need to eat to be healthy --- you are eating to few calories your body is shutting down under those conditions meaning your metabolism is going into starvation mode - it says essentially - hey I am not getting enough calories so i am going to stop burning them - secondly you are not going to put on muscle mass with those few calories - muscle weight more and uses less space - which is why I say lose the scale and look at the mirror.
your percentages are off - in your case 40%(protein)/35%(fat)/25%(carbs) - also cardio at the end of your workouts not at the beginning - your protein shod be approx 140 grams daily - your fat can be higher (trust be fat you need) Carbs are needed - but lower than what most believe - you are 800 short daily on your calorie count
Get most of your carbs from vegetables
800 Cal/ Protien
700 Cal/Fat
500 Cal/Carbs
Drink 4L water/day
(Hint: Because "starvation mode" is a myth)
No Calories period you will lose weight yes - muscle mass too thus the heart related issue and insuring death - and yes your metabolism still shuts down which is why lethargy is a huge problem for people with eating disorders - look at starving people - they are laying down waiting to die not our running marathons
You're partly right. Starving people do lose energy.
But you said:
"hey I am not getting enough calories so i am going to stop burning them."
That portion is untrue. Your body will cannibalize itself to get the energy/calories it needs to try to stay alive, it won't stop burning calories. When your body stops burning calories, you're dead.
No its true your body will stop the rate of burn if it detect a long term fluctuation in calorie consumption
No, it won't. If your body stops burning calories, you are dead. Basic physiological functions require calories are burned.
It may reduce non-essential functions, and that may reduce calorie burn, but it will not stop. And I'm talking like concentration camp here, not "I'm on a diet."
Didn't say it stops completely but is DOES reduce "rate" of burn and yes you will die if you don;t consume enough calories
You said it stops. Multiple times.
Yep.
or should I just explain the entire KREBS cycle to her and the difference prokaryotic and eukaryotic ATP production
That would definitely be more beneficial than the woo.18 -
Carlos_421 wrote: »quiksylver296 wrote: »quiksylver296 wrote: »
How do you explain anorexics getting skinny then?lose your scale - its never been an evaluate of mine - noting beats a good pair of pants and a mirror -first you need to eat to be healthy --- you are eating to few calories your body is shutting down under those conditions meaning your metabolism is going into starvation mode - it says essentially - hey I am not getting enough calories so i am going to stop burning them - secondly you are not going to put on muscle mass with those few calories - muscle weight more and uses less space - which is why I say lose the scale and look at the mirror.
your percentages are off - in your case 40%(protein)/35%(fat)/25%(carbs) - also cardio at the end of your workouts not at the beginning - your protein shod be approx 140 grams daily - your fat can be higher (trust be fat you need) Carbs are needed - but lower than what most believe - you are 800 short daily on your calorie count
Get most of your carbs from vegetables
800 Cal/ Protien
700 Cal/Fat
500 Cal/Carbs
Drink 4L water/day
(Hint: Because "starvation mode" is a myth)
No Calories period you will lose weight yes - muscle mass too thus the heart related issue and insuring death - and yes your metabolism still shuts down which is why lethargy is a huge problem for people with eating disorders - look at starving people - they are laying down waiting to die not our running marathons
You're partly right. Starving people do lose energy.
But you said:
"hey I am not getting enough calories so i am going to stop burning them."
That portion is untrue. Your body will cannibalize itself to get the energy/calories it needs to try to stay alive, it won't stop burning calories. When your body stops burning calories, you're dead.
No its true your body will stop the rate of burn if it detect a long term fluctuation in calorie consumption
No, it won't. If your body stops burning calories, you are dead. Basic physiological functions require calories are burned.
It may reduce non-essential functions, and that may reduce calorie burn, but it will not stop. And I'm talking like concentration camp here, not "I'm on a diet."
Didn't say it stops completely but is DOES reduce "rate" of burn and yes you will die if you don;t consume enough calories
You said it stops. Multiple times.
UHGGGGGG use some critical thinking skills - what I said was " hey I am not getting enough calories so i am going to stop burning them" its a generalized idea - if you stopped burning calories completes you would instantly stop a heart beating
And when others pointed out that while TDEE may decrease due to a prolonged, extreme deficit, it wouldn’t be as notable as you seem to think (accurately pointing out that it wouldn’t be enough to fully counteract weight loss), you argued.
When people pointed out that the metabolism doesn’t actually stop unless you’re dead, you argued.
Critical thinking, I’d like to introduce you to my friend, irony.30 -
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workhard115 wrote: »tiptoethruthetulips wrote: »Your are already in the healthy weight range for your height (BMI 20.7), any weight loss is going to be slow and low.
How much more weight to you want to lose? You need to make sure that you have the excess fat to lose that much weight otherwise lean body mass will be likely be lost instead.
Perhaps focus on body recomp instead....this would likely mean that you would look leaner/wear a clothing size less but could be the same weight as now or even a a little more. Don't focus on the scales.
Other wise your measuring and weighing of all food and drink/tracking of calories needs to be spot on.
I know that I am in the healthy range for my height but I see that there is much more that should be done with my body and I am sure that there is still an excess of fat to be lost so I know the kilos are not the most important thing but I see it in the mirror that it isn't okay now. I consider 55 to be perfect.
Their point is that if you *are* eating at a deficit, your results will be very slow to show
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lose your scale - its never been an evaluate of mine - noting beats a good pair of pants and a mirror -first you need to eat to be healthy --- you are eating to few calories your body is shutting down under those conditions meaning your metabolism is going into starvation mode - it says essentially - hey I am not getting enough calories so i am going to stop burning them - secondly you are not going to put on muscle mass with those few calories - muscle weight more and uses less space - which is why I say lose the scale and look at the mirror.
your percentages are off - in your case 40%(protein)/35%(fat)/25%(carbs) - also cardio at the end of your workouts not at the beginning - your protein shod be approx 140 grams daily - your fat can be higher (trust be fat you need) Carbs are needed - but lower than what most believe - you are 800 short daily on your calorie count
Get most of your carbs from vegetables
800 Cal/ Protien
700 Cal/Fat
500 Cal/Carbs
Drink 4L water/day
So much water is not necessary, and you flush out a lot of useful electrolytes along the way.10 -
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People woo'ing me over water consumption please educate yourself and don;t hurt the OP with bad information - just leave the board - the information you are handing out is dangerous
https://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-lifestyle/nutrition-and-healthy-eating/in-depth/water/art-20044256?pg=2
2.7L per day for a person who does NOT exersize
the simple equation is half your body weight in ounces and 25% more for people who exercise
Your link doesn't even say you need to drink that much water.
You get water from a lot of different sources besides just drinking plain water - food, coffee, juice, milk, etc., etc. If you aren't thirsty and your urine is pale yellow you are getting enough fluids.17 -
People woo'ing me over water consumption please educate yourself and don;t hurt the OP with bad information - just leave the board - the information you are handing out is dangerous
https://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-lifestyle/nutrition-and-healthy-eating/in-depth/water/art-20044256?pg=2
2.7L per day for a person who does NOT exersize
the simple equation is half your body weight in ounces and 25% more for people who exercise
That includes all beverages and food, though, not just plain water. Per that article, "About 20 percent of daily fluid intake usually comes from food." You don't need to guzzle plain water to hit recommended levels. The body is actually very good at regulating hydration. Again, per the article you linked, "Your fluid intake is probably adequate if: You rarely feel thirsty [and] Your urine is colorless or light yellow." There's nothing in there about needing 25% more if you exercise or about needing more or less water based on body weight. All it says about exercise is that you should drink more water to replace what you sweat out, and that you *might* need an energy drink after intense exercise that lasts more than an hour.12 -
People woo'ing me over water consumption please educate yourself and don;t hurt the OP with bad information - just leave the board - the information you are handing out is dangerous
https://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-lifestyle/nutrition-and-healthy-eating/in-depth/water/art-20044256?pg=2
2.7L per day for a person who does NOT exersize
the simple equation is half your body weight in ounces and 25% more for people who exercise
The very article you linked even says that as long as you’re rarely thirsty and your pee is light yellow, you’re getting plenty of water.
It says nothing to validate your claims.17 -
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