Need advice from vegans: How much protein do I really need to be consuming.... REALLY??
PrincessTinyheart
Posts: 679 Member
So here's the deal.... I'm transitioning to vegan after being a vegetarian for about 9 years. I'm going vegan for ethical and environmental concerns primarily, but for health reasons as well.
I took a break from MFP and calorie tracking for a couple of months but now I"m getting back into the swing of things. I am shocked at how hard it is to match the suggested protein goal while consuming vegan "whole" foods. I do sometimes drink a scoop of vegan protein powder with cashew or almond milk, but that's generally not recommended by most food experts. I'm reading that the idea is to get your protein from "real" food, not powders. It's very challenging for me to meet my daily protein goal and still stay under my calorie intake. I eat quinoa, beans, nuts, tofu, seitan, protein rich greens.... but dang.... i feel like I need to down a couple of pounds or more of this stuff just to get up there and that's way too many calories for someone who is trying to lose 1 lb a week at a daily limit of 1500 calories a day.
Anybody (specifically vegans, or vegan -friendly MFPers) out there have any tips to share? I'm trying really hard to eat as close to the natural sources whenever possible and am trying to cut out all junk food so I've got as many calories as possible for protein sources.
I took a break from MFP and calorie tracking for a couple of months but now I"m getting back into the swing of things. I am shocked at how hard it is to match the suggested protein goal while consuming vegan "whole" foods. I do sometimes drink a scoop of vegan protein powder with cashew or almond milk, but that's generally not recommended by most food experts. I'm reading that the idea is to get your protein from "real" food, not powders. It's very challenging for me to meet my daily protein goal and still stay under my calorie intake. I eat quinoa, beans, nuts, tofu, seitan, protein rich greens.... but dang.... i feel like I need to down a couple of pounds or more of this stuff just to get up there and that's way too many calories for someone who is trying to lose 1 lb a week at a daily limit of 1500 calories a day.
Anybody (specifically vegans, or vegan -friendly MFPers) out there have any tips to share? I'm trying really hard to eat as close to the natural sources whenever possible and am trying to cut out all junk food so I've got as many calories as possible for protein sources.
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the recommended medical minimum is like 40 grams a day-which sounds like death to me because I aim for 140- 160.
Drink the vegan protein powder- and add it into whatever you can. It's going to be a battle across the board- don't set your self up for a struggle by trying to avoid something that can help you tremendously.7 -
The RDA for a sedentary individual is 0.8 grams per Kg of body weight...the RDA for protein is the amount recommended to meet basic nutritional requirements...so that's basically the minimum. For the average sedentary female, that amounts to around a very modest 46 grams.
If you're active you will be breaking down tissue and would require more. More is also recommended when cutting weight to help preserve muscle mass.
https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/how-much-protein-do-you-need-every-day-2015061880964 -
I usually aim for 25-30% of calories from protein which should get you in the right ballpark, which is in excess of the mfp default suggestion. It's pretty easy to reach in most days (a lot easier with things like seitan, admittedly).1
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I am a vegan who eats a whole food plant based diet with a caloric deficit (some days just over 1200 calories) and get about 53-76 grams a day. I'm totally fine with that! It's harder to get more when you eat less, definitely. Overall I think I'm doing pretty well although I do very little exercise.1
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When you hear things like this, you should be asking why. Is there really a huge difference between a block of tofu and a scoop of soy protein powder?PrincessTinyheart wrote: »I do sometimes drink a scoop of vegan protein powder with cashew or almond milk, but that's generally not recommended by most food experts. I'm reading that the idea is to get your protein from "real" food, not powders.
If the answer is "because processing," really think about how much processing it takes to turn soybeans into tofu compared to how much processing it takes to turn soybeans into protein powder. (Also, ask yourself how much processing it takes to turn cashews into milk, or soybeans into yogurt, for that matter).
If the answer is "because artificial flavors," buy unsweetened/unflavored protein powder.
In and of itself, there's nothing inherently wrong with consuming soy protein powder. It's not really that different from taking a block of tofu and putting it into a blender.
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About how many grams are you trying to get, and how short are you falling?2
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About how many grams are you trying to get, and how short are you falling?
According to MFP I should have 78 grams of protein a day, and today I have 56 grams. That's including a scoop of vegan protein powder with a cup of almond milk. My average protein intake varies wildly. Some days I get pretty close.... but I go over on calories
. Most days I'm on target with my calories but way under on protein. I eat a lot of vegetables and fruit, some whole grains, and then throw protein in there whenever I can. Maybe I need to start by figuring out how much protein-rich food I can eat to meet my goal and then adding veggies and grains around that? 2 -
When you hear things like this, you should be asking why. Is there really a huge difference between a block of tofu and a scoop of soy protein powder?PrincessTinyheart wrote: »I do sometimes drink a scoop of vegan protein powder with cashew or almond milk, but that's generally not recommended by most food experts. I'm reading that the idea is to get your protein from "real" food, not powders.
If the answer is "because processing," really think about how much processing it takes to turn soybeans into tofu compared to how much processing it takes to turn soybeans into protein powder. (Also, ask yourself how much processing it takes to turn cashews into milk, or soybeans into yogurt, for that matter).
If the answer is "because artificial flavors," buy unsweetened/unflavored protein powder.
In and of itself, there's nothing inherently wrong with consuming soy protein powder. It's not really that different from taking a block of tofu and putting it into a blender.
You bring up a lot of good points. I think one of my problems is that I get caught up in too much "health advice" from too many different sources that have wildly varying opinions and are coming from different angles. There are the sources who push a whole, clean, natural-source diet with as little processing as possible, while other sources focus strictly on keeping calories down, even if that means eating processed food. When you put it all together, it can get very confusing and frustrating.6 -
PrincessTinyheart wrote: »About how many grams are you trying to get, and how short are you falling?
According to MFP I should have 78 grams of protein a day, and today I have 56 grams. That's including a scoop of vegan protein powder with a cup of almond milk. My average protein intake varies wildly. Some days I get pretty close.... but I go over on calories. Most days I'm on target with my calories but way under on protein. I eat a lot of vegetables and fruit, some whole grains, and then throw protein in there whenever I can. Maybe I need to start by figuring out how much protein-rich food I can eat to meet my goal and then adding veggies and grains around that?
The daily protein struggle is generally real. So if you're making 2/3 of your goal- that's pretty good. I generally try to hit my protein goals and then work around them as well. Keep trying- you never really "arrive" it's just a keep trying situation. But don't beat yourself up for not hitting it every day- few people have perfect macro splits every day- it's not realistic.3 -
There are some fake meats that are vegan friendly and are lower calorie. I would invest some time researching Morningstar and Boca etc to see which of their products are vegan because a lot of your fake meats are high in protein. Hope this helps!0
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If I was following "food experts" that were telling me to avoid protein powder without explaining why and I don't consider "it's not real" to be a valid explanation), I would consider following some additional experts. There's nothing inherently wrong with using protein powder to help meet your needs for protein. I don't have it every day, but I will sometimes add unsweetened hemp, rice, or pea protein powders to my cold brew coffee or baked goods. They're just food.
I don't see inherent value in avoiding processed food, although there are certainly processed foods that I can understand wanting to avoid or limit because they may make it harder to meet your nutritional needs on a limited-calorie diet. But there are also non-processed foods I tend to limit or avoid because they make it harder for me to met my nutritional needs on a limited calorie diet. I prefer to look at the qualities of a particular food (things like calorie count, nutrients, how I know it will fill me up, etc) and then decide if it belongs in my diet regularly.
I get most of my protein from beans, tofu, tempeh, and seitan and I round it out with the protein found in grains and vegetables (as well as nuts/seeds). As I mentioned above, I will also have protein powder (usually 1-2 times a week, more frequently in the summer when I'm marathon training). I'm not losing weight right now, but when I was, I found myself relying a lot on the tofu and protein powder just because they were so easy to fit into my calories.
One thing that helped me was to build each meal around a good quality source of protein first and then add other stuff. This kept me from having to "shoehorn" protein in after the meal was already planned.9 -
PrincessTinyheart wrote: »About how many grams are you trying to get, and how short are you falling?
According to MFP I should have 78 grams of protein a day, and today I have 56 grams. That's including a scoop of vegan protein powder with a cup of almond milk. My average protein intake varies wildly. Some days I get pretty close.... but I go over on calories. Most days I'm on target with my calories but way under on protein. I eat a lot of vegetables and fruit, some whole grains, and then throw protein in there whenever I can. Maybe I need to start by figuring out how much protein-rich food I can eat to meet my goal and then adding veggies and grains around that?
Most of my vegetarian friends eat either dairy or fish. There is a group here called I think Happy Herbivores or something like that. Perhaps if you can find that group they'll be able to give you some ideas.
I wouldn't be afraid of the vegan protein powder either. Try to get protein into your regular meals, but if the farthest you get off track is some protein powder, I think your golden
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Here’s a blog article from Rich Roll, who is an ultra marathoner and vegan. You might find this helpful.
http://www.richroll.com/blog/slaying-the-protein-myth/
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Here is a blog post I like: https://www.thefullhelping.com/15-simple-affordable-and-protein-rich-combinations-of-plant-foods/
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PrincessTinyheart wrote: »About how many grams are you trying to get, and how short are you falling?
According to MFP I should have 78 grams of protein a day, and today I have 56 grams. That's including a scoop of vegan protein powder with a cup of almond milk. My average protein intake varies wildly. Some days I get pretty close.... but I go over on calories. Most days I'm on target with my calories but way under on protein. I eat a lot of vegetables and fruit, some whole grains, and then throw protein in there whenever I can. Maybe I need to start by figuring out how much protein-rich food I can eat to meet my goal and then adding veggies and grains around that?
Most of my vegetarian friends eat either dairy or fish. There is a group here called I think Happy Herbivores or something like that. Perhaps if you can find that group they'll be able to give you some ideas.
I wouldn't be afraid of the vegan protein powder either. Try to get protein into your regular meals, but if the farthest you get off track is some protein powder, I think your golden
FYI That's far from vegetarian. People of that nature are called pescatarian. Fish is an animal = meat.3 -
missionprobable wrote: »PrincessTinyheart wrote: »About how many grams are you trying to get, and how short are you falling?
According to MFP I should have 78 grams of protein a day, and today I have 56 grams. That's including a scoop of vegan protein powder with a cup of almond milk. My average protein intake varies wildly. Some days I get pretty close.... but I go over on calories. Most days I'm on target with my calories but way under on protein. I eat a lot of vegetables and fruit, some whole grains, and then throw protein in there whenever I can. Maybe I need to start by figuring out how much protein-rich food I can eat to meet my goal and then adding veggies and grains around that?
Most of my vegetarian friends eat either dairy or fish. There is a group here called I think Happy Herbivores or something like that. Perhaps if you can find that group they'll be able to give you some ideas.
I wouldn't be afraid of the vegan protein powder either. Try to get protein into your regular meals, but if the farthest you get off track is some protein powder, I think your golden
FYI That's far from vegetarian. People of that nature are called pescatarian. Fish is an animal = meat.
Yes, I'm aware. They started out as vegetarian and then added one or the other to get a bit more protein, and they still call themselves vegetarian so that's what I call them.
And it's not "far from vegetarian". I'm far from vegetarian. They eat one other food a few times a week. Thanks though.5 -
I think I'm vegan -friendly. Use the search tool to find the Protein%Food list and download it. Of course it lists many animal sources of protein, but it also lists the best plant sources of protein.
You can use the USDA database to search for protein sources. It's sufficiently complex that I don't depend upon it.0 -
PrincessTinyheart wrote: »So here's the deal.... I'm transitioning to vegan after being a vegetarian for about 9 years. I'm going vegan for ethical and environmental concerns primarily, but for health reasons as well.
I took a break from MFP and calorie tracking for a couple of months but now I"m getting back into the swing of things. I am shocked at how hard it is to match the suggested protein goal while consuming vegan "whole" foods. I do sometimes drink a scoop of vegan protein powder with cashew or almond milk, but that's generally not recommended by most food experts. I'm reading that the idea is to get your protein from "real" food, not powders. It's very challenging for me to meet my daily protein goal and still stay under my calorie intake. I eat quinoa, beans, nuts, tofu, seitan, protein rich greens.... but dang.... i feel like I need to down a couple of pounds or more of this stuff just to get up there and that's way too many calories for someone who is trying to lose 1 lb a week at a daily limit of 1500 calories a day.
Anybody (specifically vegans, or vegan -friendly MFPers) out there have any tips to share? I'm trying really hard to eat as close to the natural sources whenever possible and am trying to cut out all junk food so I've got as many calories as possible for protein sources.
I feel your pain. I had changed my diet to raw vegan back in February 2016, I wasn't able to get enough protein at all. Things that had protein like quinoa, beans, nuts etc., would put me way over in my carbs/fats target macro numbers. My goal is to get healthy and part of that is losing weight. You need protein to lose weight and build lean muscle mass. So, I have had to stray from this for a moment in order to lose the weight. I was losing it very slowly, too slow. Now consuming at least 130 gr of protein, I have had great success and continue too. On average, 1.5-2 pds a week occasionally 3 pds. I really don't think you can get enough protein without supplementing. I still have to consume protein shakes to help maintain my protein macro number. I not into soy, so I use products like Vega and other plant based ones that supply complete protein. The highest and best form of protein is always going to be meat unfortunately or fish. I wish you well in finding an eating plan that will work for you in the long run. Right now, I'm sticking with short term and will worry about the long run when I get to my goal weight. Hopefully, my needs will be different then like being able to consume more carbs/fats and I won't have to worry so much about eating the aforementioned.
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avagrace44 wrote: »PrincessTinyheart wrote: »So here's the deal.... I'm transitioning to vegan after being a vegetarian for about 9 years. I'm going vegan for ethical and environmental concerns primarily, but for health reasons as well.
I took a break from MFP and calorie tracking for a couple of months but now I"m getting back into the swing of things. I am shocked at how hard it is to match the suggested protein goal while consuming vegan "whole" foods. I do sometimes drink a scoop of vegan protein powder with cashew or almond milk, but that's generally not recommended by most food experts. I'm reading that the idea is to get your protein from "real" food, not powders. It's very challenging for me to meet my daily protein goal and still stay under my calorie intake. I eat quinoa, beans, nuts, tofu, seitan, protein rich greens.... but dang.... i feel like I need to down a couple of pounds or more of this stuff just to get up there and that's way too many calories for someone who is trying to lose 1 lb a week at a daily limit of 1500 calories a day.
Anybody (specifically vegans, or vegan -friendly MFPers) out there have any tips to share? I'm trying really hard to eat as close to the natural sources whenever possible and am trying to cut out all junk food so I've got as many calories as possible for protein sources.
I feel your pain. I had changed my diet to raw vegan back in February 2016, I wasn't able to get enough protein at all. Things that had protein like quinoa, beans, nuts etc., would put me way over in my carbs/fats target macro numbers. My goal is to get healthy and part of that is losing weight. You need protein to lose weight and build lean muscle mass. So, I have had to stray from this for a moment in order to lose the weight. I was losing it very slowly, too slow. Now consuming at least 130 gr of protein, I have had great success and continue too. On average, 1.5-2 pds a week occasionally 3 pds. I really don't think you can get enough protein without supplementing. I still have to consume protein shakes to help maintain my protein macro number. I not into soy, so I use products like Vega and other plant based ones that supply complete protein. The highest and best form of protein is always going to be meat unfortunately or fish. I wish you well in finding an eating plan that will work for you in the long run. Right now, I'm sticking with short term and will worry about the long run when I get to my goal weight. Hopefully, my needs will be different then like being able to consume more carbs/fats and I won't have to worry so much about eating the aforementioned.
You *can* get enough protein on a vegan diet without supplementing (there are many vegans who never consume protein supplements and still get sufficient protein). This doesn't mean that we *shouldn't* supplement. It may take a bit more trial-and-error for vegans on a calorie deficit to find ways to consistently meet their protein goals, but it can be done. Foods like tofu, tempeh, and seitan are especially useful to vegans on a deficit because they provide more protein per calorie than foods like beans, nuts, and grains. Soy milk/yogurt can also be useful for vegans seeking to boost the amount of protein in their diet.6 -
You don't have to worry nearly as much about protein as people say you do. There are raw vegans who have eaten nothing but fruits, vegetables, nuts, and seeds for years and they haven't gotten "protein deficiency." Kwashiorkor (protein deficiency) happens in famine situations where people are getting very little of ANY food, and the little food they are getting is low in protein such as rice. I haven't heard of any cases of people getting "protein deficiency" while eating a plentiful Western vegan diet. However, if you are concerned about it, the vegan protein powder isn't going to kill you, especially if you're only eating it for as long as you're dieting. Sure it's not as healthy as eating whole foods but it's fine.
I eat a mostly plant-based diet. I do have (on average) two eggs per day, and yesterday I also decided to add back in one serving of dairy per day, but the rest is vegan (and some days are entirely vegan). My daily protein has generally been in the 80-100g per day range for 2000-2100 calories, and that's without any protein powder, protein bars, etc. It's not something I'm concerned about at all.8 -
dragthewaters1991 wrote: »You don't have to worry nearly as much about protein as people say you do. There are raw vegans who have eaten nothing but fruits, vegetables, nuts, and seeds for years and they haven't gotten "protein deficiency." Kwashiorkor (protein deficiency) happens in famine situations where people are getting very little of ANY food, and the little food they are getting is low in protein such as rice. I haven't heard of any cases of people getting "protein deficiency" while eating a plentiful Western vegan diet. However, if you are concerned about it, the vegan protein powder isn't going to kill you, especially if you're only eating it for as long as you're dieting. Sure it's not as healthy as eating whole foods but it's fine.
I eat a mostly plant-based diet. I do have (on average) two eggs per day, and yesterday I also decided to add back in one serving of dairy per day, but the rest is vegan (and some days are entirely vegan). My daily protein has generally been in the 80-100g per day range for 2000-2100 calories, and that's without any protein powder, protein bars, etc. It's not something I'm concerned about at all.
There are also dozens and dozens of former raw vegans who quit veganism because they felt ill or weak or developed health problems. You can feel unwell, weak, or just under the weather due to low protein intake well before a clinical protein deficiency sets in. Using a diagnosed protein deficiency as the baseline for vegan wellness does new vegans a profound disservice. We owe them better than advice that is designed to keep them just above the baseline for medical intervention.
Surely our goal should involve thriving,a feeling of wellness, and lean muscle mass growth/retention, not just avoiding an official diagnosis of protein deficiency?
When you say consuming protein powder isn't as healthy as eating whole foods, what do you mean? What specific health problems are you concerned with and what data is that based on?13 -
missionprobable wrote: »PrincessTinyheart wrote: »About how many grams are you trying to get, and how short are you falling?
According to MFP I should have 78 grams of protein a day, and today I have 56 grams. That's including a scoop of vegan protein powder with a cup of almond milk. My average protein intake varies wildly. Some days I get pretty close.... but I go over on calories. Most days I'm on target with my calories but way under on protein. I eat a lot of vegetables and fruit, some whole grains, and then throw protein in there whenever I can. Maybe I need to start by figuring out how much protein-rich food I can eat to meet my goal and then adding veggies and grains around that?
Most of my vegetarian friends eat either dairy or fish. There is a group here called I think Happy Herbivores or something like that. Perhaps if you can find that group they'll be able to give you some ideas.
I wouldn't be afraid of the vegan protein powder either. Try to get protein into your regular meals, but if the farthest you get off track is some protein powder, I think your golden
FYI That's far from vegetarian. People of that nature are called pescatarian. Fish is an animal = meat.
Yes, I'm aware. They started out as vegetarian and then added one or the other to get a bit more protein, and they still call themselves vegetarian so that's what I call them.
And it's not "far from vegetarian". I'm far from vegetarian. They eat one other food a few times a week. Thanks though.
if someone is eating fish regularly- they aren't vegetarians.
that's like me saying I'm vegetarian because I have meatless meals occasionally.2 -
missionprobable wrote: »PrincessTinyheart wrote: »About how many grams are you trying to get, and how short are you falling?
According to MFP I should have 78 grams of protein a day, and today I have 56 grams. That's including a scoop of vegan protein powder with a cup of almond milk. My average protein intake varies wildly. Some days I get pretty close.... but I go over on calories. Most days I'm on target with my calories but way under on protein. I eat a lot of vegetables and fruit, some whole grains, and then throw protein in there whenever I can. Maybe I need to start by figuring out how much protein-rich food I can eat to meet my goal and then adding veggies and grains around that?
Most of my vegetarian friends eat either dairy or fish. There is a group here called I think Happy Herbivores or something like that. Perhaps if you can find that group they'll be able to give you some ideas.
I wouldn't be afraid of the vegan protein powder either. Try to get protein into your regular meals, but if the farthest you get off track is some protein powder, I think your golden
FYI That's far from vegetarian. People of that nature are called pescatarian. Fish is an animal = meat.
Yes, I'm aware. They started out as vegetarian and then added one or the other to get a bit more protein, and they still call themselves vegetarian so that's what I call them.
And it's not "far from vegetarian". I'm far from vegetarian. They eat one other food a few times a week. Thanks though.
if someone is eating fish regularly- they aren't vegetarians.
that's like me saying I'm vegetarian because I have meatless meals occasionally.
OK, thanks. I'll let them know.5 -
janejellyroll wrote: »There are also dozens and dozens of former raw vegans who quit veganism because they felt ill or weak or developed health problems. You can feel unwell, weak, or just under the weather due to low protein intake well before a clinical protein deficiency sets in. Using a diagnosed protein deficiency as the baseline for vegan wellness does new vegans a profound disservice. We owe them better than advice that is designed to keep them just above the baseline for medical intervention.
Surely our goal should involve thriving,a feeling of wellness, and lean muscle mass growth/retention, not just avoiding an official diagnosis of protein deficiency?
How do we know their problems came from protein deficiency, rather than for another reason? It could be from a variety of other deficiencies, such as iron, B12, vitamin D, etc. or even from something like too high of a fructose intake. There is no evidence their problems came from "protein deficiency." I wouldn't advocate a raw vegan diet for other reasons, but the point I was making was that people obsess over protein too much and you really don't need much protein to be healthy. 56g per day is fine, although I also assume OP isn't going to be on 1500 cals a day forever, since she mentioned this is about a 500 cals per day deficit for her (losing one pound a week) so eventually her caloric intake and therefore protein intake will increase.When you say consuming protein powder isn't as healthy as eating whole foods, what do you mean? What specific health problems are you concerned with and what data is that based on?
Pretty much every nutrition guide out there recommends whole unprocessed or minimally processed foods over processed foods. Just look at any nutritionist or doctor's recommendations. Less processed foods retain more of their original nutrition and (if they're plant-based) fiber which slows down their digestion in the body (which can help with weight and blood sugar control). As I said protein powder won't kill you but if you're trying to eat an optimal diet, whole foods are healthier. However, there's also this: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/could-protein-shakes-harm-your-health/ (plus various other articles along these lines)
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dragthewaters1991 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »There are also dozens and dozens of former raw vegans who quit veganism because they felt ill or weak or developed health problems. You can feel unwell, weak, or just under the weather due to low protein intake well before a clinical protein deficiency sets in. Using a diagnosed protein deficiency as the baseline for vegan wellness does new vegans a profound disservice. We owe them better than advice that is designed to keep them just above the baseline for medical intervention.
Surely our goal should involve thriving,a feeling of wellness, and lean muscle mass growth/retention, not just avoiding an official diagnosis of protein deficiency?
How do we know their problems came from protein deficiency, rather than for another reason? It could be from a variety of other deficiencies, such as iron, B12, vitamin D, etc. or even from something like too high of a fructose intake. There is no evidence their problems came from "protein deficiency." I wouldn't advocate a raw vegan diet for other reasons, but the point I was making was that people obsess over protein too much and you really don't need much protein to be healthy. 56g per day is fine, although I also assume OP isn't going to be on 1500 cals a day forever, since she mentioned this is about a 500 cals per day deficit for her (losing one pound a week) so eventually her caloric intake and therefore protein intake will increase.When you say consuming protein powder isn't as healthy as eating whole foods, what do you mean? What specific health problems are you concerned with and what data is that based on?
Pretty much every nutrition guide out there recommends whole unprocessed or minimally processed foods over processed foods. Just look at any nutritionist or doctor's recommendations. Less processed foods retain more of their original nutrition and (if they're plant-based) fiber which slows down their digestion in the body (which can help with weight and blood sugar control). As I said protein powder won't kill you but if you're trying to eat an optimal diet, whole foods are healthier. However, there's also this: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/could-protein-shakes-harm-your-health/ (plus various other articles along these lines)
We don't -- but we know that focusing on clinical deficiency as the sole metric of vegan nutrition doesn't necessarily set people up for success. Your argument is that avoiding an outright diagnosis of clinical protein deficiency is sufficient. I disagree with that. My personal standard is to not just avoid that diagnosis, but to thrive. I would assume that is OP's goal as well.
When you refer to "pretty much every nutrition guide" is that a statement that you don't have any evidence that protein powder is harmful to health? I have no idea what you mean when you say that whole foods are "healthier" than protein powder if you have no data showing that protein powder is harmful to health. What does this mean to you if you're not referring to actual outcomes in human health?
That article is referring to contaminated protein powders that have lead or other harmful substances. Nobody is arguing that those are healthful. There have also been instances of food-borne illness related to whole foods like greens, but using those to argue that consuming greens is unhealthful overall wouldn't be reasonable, would it?
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janejellyroll wrote: »We don't -- but we know that focusing on clinical deficiency as the sole metric of vegan nutrition doesn't necessarily set people up for success. Your argument is that avoiding an outright diagnosis of clinical protein deficiency is sufficient. I disagree with that. My personal standard is to not just avoid that diagnosis, but to thrive. I would assume that is OP's goal as well.
What I originally said was that many people thrive as raw vegans getting less protein than OP is getting. Sure, some people quit due to feeling ill, but where is the evidence those cases are due to lack of protein rather than another reason? People also quit the paleo diet and every other type of diet due to feeling ill. OP has said nothing about experiencing any symptoms that indicate she may have a "protein deficiency."When you refer to "pretty much every nutrition guide" is that a statement that you don't have any evidence that protein powder is harmful to health? I have no idea what you mean when you say that whole foods are "healthier" than protein powder if you have no data showing that protein powder is harmful to health. What does this mean to you if you're not referring to actual outcomes in human health?
Show me where I ever said protein powder is harmful to health in my initial post. The OP was the one who said she had concerns about eating protein powder. I said it may not be as healthy as unprocessed foods but it's fine. Sorry you have problems with reading comprehension.That article is referring to contaminated protein powders that have lead or other harmful substances. Nobody is arguing that those are healthful. There have also been instances of food-borne illness related to whole foods like greens, but using those to argue that consuming greens is unhealthful overall wouldn't be reasonable, would it?
Not every bunch of greens is contaminated with bacteria. Every sample of protein powder they tested had heavy metals.
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dragthewaters1991 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »We don't -- but we know that focusing on clinical deficiency as the sole metric of vegan nutrition doesn't necessarily set people up for success. Your argument is that avoiding an outright diagnosis of clinical protein deficiency is sufficient. I disagree with that. My personal standard is to not just avoid that diagnosis, but to thrive. I would assume that is OP's goal as well.
What I originally said was that many people thrive as raw vegans getting less protein than OP is getting. Sure, some people quit due to feeling ill, but where is the evidence those cases are due to lack of protein rather than another reason? People also quit the paleo diet and every other type of diet due to feeling ill. OP has said nothing about experiencing any symptoms that indicate she may have a "protein deficiency."When you refer to "pretty much every nutrition guide" is that a statement that you don't have any evidence that protein powder is harmful to health? I have no idea what you mean when you say that whole foods are "healthier" than protein powder if you have no data showing that protein powder is harmful to health. What does this mean to you if you're not referring to actual outcomes in human health?
Show me where I ever said protein powder is harmful to health in my initial post. The OP was the one who said she had concerns about eating protein powder. I said it may not be as healthy as unprocessed foods but it's fine. Sorry you have problems with reading comprehension.That article is referring to contaminated protein powders that have lead or other harmful substances. Nobody is arguing that those are healthful. There have also been instances of food-borne illness related to whole foods like greens, but using those to argue that consuming greens is unhealthful overall wouldn't be reasonable, would it?
Not every bunch of greens is contaminated with bacteria. Every sample of protein powder they tested had heavy metals.
Yes, and I said that many people *don't* thrive as raw vegans and protein could be part of the reason why. When you look at a group of people who have stuck with raw veganism and assume that means *any amount of protein* is sufficient for people to thrive or that protein guidelines don't apply to vegans, it's risky to ignore all the people who have tried raw veganism and abandoned the lifestyle because they didn't feel well. You need to look at the whole picture.
People who quit the paleo diet due to not feeling well may also represent a group not getting their nutritional needs met. If we were having this conversation about how paleo was healthful no matter how many of your nutritional needs were being met, I would bring up former paleo dieters who quit due to not feeling well/health concerns as well.
You said that protein powder wasn't as "healthy." I asked you how it could harm health. If you don't believe that protein powder can impair or harm health (in the context of non-contaiminated food, just as we would discuss greens or peanut butter or any other food), then please clarify what you mean by it not being as healthy.
For me, when someone says something isn't as healthy, there seems to be a claim that it is not good or harmful in some way.
I don't find a test sample of 15 to convince me that protein powder should totally be avoided. In any event, if heavy metal contamination was your primary concern, I don't understand why you didn't lead with that instead of vague claims that protein powder isn't as "healthy" as whole foods.4 -
Here's CR's list that actually shows what they tested. Hardly all protein powders, mostly biased toward the premade shakes (which I would avoid for other reasons) and certainly not the ones a vegan would be choosing:
https://www.consumerreports.org/cro/2012/04/protein-drinks/index.htm
It's also worth noting that the concern really seems to be "you don't need huge amounts of protein" (which is not what is being discussed here), and "there are cheaper ways to get protein" (but none of those listed are vegan). Obviously there ARE cheap vegan sources of protein (beans, lentils), but lots of people like variety or might want some protein without the additional carbs and calories (perhaps because they enjoy some oats or a smoothie but want protein too, without doubling the calories).
Beyond that, here's a good response to the CR claims:
http://nicktumminello.com/2010/07/poison-protein-and-consumer-reports-nutrition-expert-alan-aragon-speaks-out/
Here's the ON list referred to, that provides the heavy metal contents in context -- I find it remarkable and shameful that CR did not, as that made it's claims quite misleading: https://www.netrition.com/Consumer_Reports_OptimumNutrition_response.pdf8 -
how are you vegan if you eat two eggs a day?
I'm so effing confused.5 -
Also- eat peanut butter- apparently that's something with protein in- I'm told daily it's a good source of protein.
#rollseyes.6
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