Need advice from vegans: How much protein do I really need to be consuming.... REALLY??

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Replies

  • ninalemon
    ninalemon Posts: 36 Member
    I am WFPB, based on my height I should get about 42g of protein a day. The calculation of what you need is 0.37g per pound of body weight @ your ideal weight. If you are trying to lose weight you would calculate based on your goal weight not current weight.

    I rarely miss my protein target, I eat about 1.5 cups of beans per day, 1/8 to 1/4 cup of seeds, lots of greens and other fruits and veggies. I shoot for 1.5-2 cups of whole grains a day.

    I don’t do protein powders, I prefer to stick with Whole Foods. You could add some white beans to a smoothie and not see a difference in taste. I use white beans often as the base for dressings.
  • drea2011
    drea2011 Posts: 874 Member
    That’s my struggle is well I find it so hard but I’m trying to add more beans and more food with more protein and less powder
  • dragthewaters1991
    dragthewaters1991 Posts: 45 Member
    lemurcat12 wrote: »
    https://www.wikihow.com/Make-Pea-Protein-Powder

    That's not a protein *isolate* which is what is in commercial powders. That's just roasted blended peas.

    Also once again I never said protein powders are *BAD* just because they are processed in my initial post. In fact I said the opposite, I said they are fine. I don't know why everyone is intent on putting words in my mouth. But OP seemed to want to avoid processed foods due to health concerns which is why I even mentioned that.
  • karahm78
    karahm78 Posts: 505 Member
    dragthewaters1991 wrote: »
    You don't have to worry nearly as much about protein as people say you do. There are raw vegans who have eaten nothing but fruits, vegetables, nuts, and seeds for years and they haven't gotten "protein deficiency." Kwashiorkor (protein deficiency) happens in famine situations where people are getting very little of ANY food, and the little food they are getting is low in protein such as rice. I haven't heard of any cases of people getting "protein deficiency" while eating a plentiful Western vegan diet. However, if you are concerned about it, the vegan protein powder isn't going to kill you, especially if you're only eating it for as long as you're dieting. Sure it's not as healthy as eating whole foods but it's fine.

    I eat a mostly plant-based diet. I do have (on average) two eggs per day, and yesterday I also decided to add back in one serving of dairy per day, but the rest is vegan (and some days are entirely vegan). My daily protein has generally been in the 80-100g per day range for 2000-2100 calories, and that's without any protein powder, protein bars, etc. It's not something I'm concerned about at all.

    The OP is trying to increase her protein intake on a much lower calorie goal. Protein is important to maintain muscle mass while in a deficit. This post doesn’t really address the OP’s situation.
  • JoRocka
    JoRocka Posts: 17,525 Member
    edited February 2018
    dragthewaters1991 wrote: »
    lemurcat12 wrote: »
    https://www.wikihow.com/Make-Pea-Protein-Powder

    That's not a protein *isolate* which is what is in commercial powders. That's just roasted blended peas.

    Also once again I never said protein powders are *BAD* just because they are processed in my initial post. In fact I said the opposite, I said they are fine. I don't know why everyone is intent on putting words in my mouth. But OP seemed to want to avoid processed foods due to health concerns which is why I even mentioned that.

    you specifically all out industrial processing.

    There is nothing inherently wrong with industrial. Industrial simply means on a larger, more robust scale- it doesn't make it bad.

    you can't move the goal posts around and then blame other people for "putting words in your mouth".
    "dragthewaters1991 wrote: »
    JoRocka wrote: »
    You're going to die of something anyway- I fail to see the level of concern here.

    secondly- that's not what the article says exactly.
    specifically it says long term impact hasn't been established.
    Their impact on long-term health may not have been fully established and they cannot be assumed to be without risk.

    so- incorrect.

    Now you're just arguing with me for the sake of arguing with me. If you don't care what you eat or how long you live then why are you even on MFP?

    I am not- the article you claimed said X- doesn't say X. I'm merely pointing out a mistake you made.

    As for your second part- forgive me for being a little nihilistic- but the time I have here- is the time I have. I want to make the best of it even if it's trivial and temporal. I use MFP because I want to make sure I stay in good weight (replacing all your wardrobe from weight flux is expensive) but being said-my health markers are fine- I believe in better living through chemistry- so I'll go ahead eating chemicals and processed things I don't' believe have a truly adverse impact on me- certainly not in the meager 60ish years I have on this earth.

    Can't be bothered to worry about 1-2 years extra if it means I miss out on oreos. eff that. it's called perspective- maybe you might go to walmart and pick some up?
  • fuzzylop72
    fuzzylop72 Posts: 651 Member
    dragthewaters1991 wrote: »
    lemurcat12 wrote: »
    https://www.wikihow.com/Make-Pea-Protein-Powder

    That's not a protein *isolate* which is what is in commercial powders. That's just roasted blended peas.

    Also once again I never said protein powders are *BAD* just because they are processed in my initial post. In fact I said the opposite, I said they are fine. I don't know why everyone is intent on putting words in my mouth. But OP seemed to want to avoid processed foods due to health concerns which is why I even mentioned that.

    Not all commercial powders use isolate, not that there's any evidence-based harm with isolate. Here's the ingredients from the main powder I use (it's a meal replacer, so it has more ingredients than a powder that just has protein).

    PEA PROTEIN, FLAXSEED, ORGANIC ACACIA GUM, PEA STARCH, HEMP PROTEIN, SACHA INCHI PROTEIN, ORGANIC GELATINIZED MACA ROOT, ORGANIC BROCCOLI, INULIN (FROM CHICORY ROOT), ORGANIC SPIRULINA NATURAL FLAVORS, DRIED FRUIT AND VEGETABLE BLEND (NUTRIENTS EXTRACTED FROM SPINACH BROCCOLI, CARROT, BEET, TOMATO, APPLE, CRANBERRY, ORANGE, CHERRY, BLUEBERRY, STRAWBERRY, SHITAKE MUSHROOM), ORGANIC KALE, ORGANIC MARINE ALGAE, PROBIOTICS (BACILLUS COAGULANS), CHLORELLA VULGARIS, PAPAIN, SILICON DIOXIDE, DRIED FRUIT BLEND (GRAPE SEED EXTRACT, ORGANIC POMEGRANATE, ACAI, MANGOSTEEN, ORGANIC GOJI, ORGANIC MAQUI)

    As for taking a whole food and removing parts of it and consuming a partial product...we've been doing that for much of our history. Wheat gluten has been consumed since the 6th century, and under goes a similar process.
  • janejellyroll
    janejellyroll Posts: 25,763 Member
    lemurcat12 wrote: »
    dragthewaters1991 wrote: »
    lemurcat12 wrote: »
    On the not as healthy as "whole foods" thing, is this a reason to give up tofu and tempeh (eat only edamame)? To give up nut milks (except for the kind that contains the whole nut, which my homemade cashew milk does, but most do not, not even homemade almond milks normally)?

    I would agree that a diet largely made up of highly processed foods and thus low in fiber isn't ideal and it's important to include a variety of whole foods, especially since that basically means eat things like produce and beans/lentils and grains (which aren't really whole foods, of course), and -- if one eats meat, which OP does not, meat. But it does not follow that including any processed foods is bad or that a diet is better if it's 100% whole foods, and convenience can be important. The idea that eating some pea protein with oats and fruit and having veg on sides=bad but eating sufficient peas to get the same amount of protein is great (even if you prefer the oats and veg and fruit to peas) makes no sense to me, and I don't think any nutrition expert worth their salt would say that's what they mean.

    Those are wildly different levels of processing. You could make tofu, tempeh, and nut/soy milks at home, if you wanted to. In fact, people have done so for centuries. Protein powders are made using industrial processing.

    https://www.wikihow.com/Make-Pea-Protein-Powder

    Bigger issue, it's basically similar to eating egg whites or low fat dairy (yes, those are not vegan! but easy analogy). Or, heck, a juice or peanut powder.

    You are using part of the pea (the protein) and removing the starch and fiber. (Here's an explanation: https://legionathletics.com/pea-protein/)

    Now, obviously, I think starch and fiber are generally desirable in a diet, but we aren't talking about eliminating them, we are talking about using the protein so it can be added to other things.

    Again, my example of someone PREFERRING a smoothie or oats with fruit (and veg on the side) in the morning, but also wanting protein. The idea that adding protein to those foods = bad, but eating peas and getting the same number of calories and protein from them = good is not actually a very sensible approach to nutrition. It places simplistic rules (processed = bad) over reality (look at the actual make up of the foods and how you feel and what will help you get a good diet).

    I don't care if anyone consumes protein powder (I try not to rely on it excessively since I prefer having a varied diet and I like beans and lentils and tofu -- which again is processed too), but if people are being told it's bad for them or not a good thing to consume, I think that ought to be based on reality. Saying that "processed foods" are always bad, also, includes a whole lot more than protein powder and, of course, is not even true. That's why I think it's important to push back.

    A good, nutrient dense diet is important, but thinking that avoiding processed foods is the best way to get there isn't correct. You need to understand nutrition at least some, and if you do you may find that some processed foods can be helpful and make life easier and your dietary choices easier to sustain.

    Amazing link -- I love trying stuff at home and it never occurred to me that I could try making my own protein powder! Thank you!
  • janejellyroll
    janejellyroll Posts: 25,763 Member
    seekingdaintiness wrote: »
    janejellyroll wrote: »
    dragthewaters1991 wrote: »
    You don't have to worry nearly as much about protein as people say you do. There are raw vegans who have eaten nothing but fruits, vegetables, nuts, and seeds for years and they haven't gotten "protein deficiency." Kwashiorkor (protein deficiency) happens in famine situations where people are getting very little of ANY food, and the little food they are getting is low in protein such as rice. I haven't heard of any cases of people getting "protein deficiency" while eating a plentiful Western vegan diet. However, if you are concerned about it, the vegan protein powder isn't going to kill you, especially if you're only eating it for as long as you're dieting. Sure it's not as healthy as eating whole foods but it's fine.

    I eat a mostly plant-based diet. I do have (on average) two eggs per day, and yesterday I also decided to add back in one serving of dairy per day, but the rest is vegan (and some days are entirely vegan). My daily protein has generally been in the 80-100g per day range for 2000-2100 calories, and that's without any protein powder, protein bars, etc. It's not something I'm concerned about at all.

    There are also dozens and dozens of former raw vegans who quit veganism because they felt ill or weak or developed health problems. You can feel unwell, weak, or just under the weather due to low protein intake well before a clinical protein deficiency sets in. Using a diagnosed protein deficiency as the baseline for vegan wellness does new vegans a profound disservice. We owe them better than advice that is designed to keep them just above the baseline for medical intervention.

    Surely our goal should involve thriving,a feeling of wellness, and lean muscle mass growth/retention, not just avoiding an official diagnosis of protein deficiency?

    When you say consuming protein powder isn't as healthy as eating whole foods, what do you mean? What specific health problems are you concerned with and what data is that based on?

    Well the problem with veganism isn't generally protein deficiency. Americans are crazy about believing they need huge amounts of protein. Veganism has a host of other problems the sufferers of this unnatural lifestyle generally suffer. The most common problems are lack of sufficient fat (yes, you need fat in your diet to process many vitamins), lack of iron, and lack of b12. Protein is available from many plant sources, but iron is only easily bio available from meats, even though it is present in some vegetables.

    There's no indication in the OP that fat, iron, and B12 are a concern in her diet. In any event, these are very easy to address. Fat can be found in all sorts of plant foods (I actually tend to eat what many would consider a high fat diet and lately have been averaging 80 grams a day), iron *is* available in many plant foods and can be processed by human bodies, and B12 is incredibly easy and affordable to supplement (and is found in many fortified foods).
    I've been vegan for over ten years and don't have an issue with any of them. I appreciate you taking a break from your completely natural lifestyle to warn us via computer though . . .
  • JoRocka
    JoRocka Posts: 17,525 Member
    janejellyroll wrote: »
    Amazing link -- I love trying stuff at home and it never occurred to me that I could try making my own protein powder! Thank you!

    in theory regular protein powder could be made at home too- but Its like greek yogurt- sure you can make it at home- but why when the big tub is only 4.99$. I cant' be bothered. #toomuchwork #lazylifter

  • janejellyroll
    janejellyroll Posts: 25,763 Member
    JoRocka wrote: »
    janejellyroll wrote: »
    Amazing link -- I love trying stuff at home and it never occurred to me that I could try making my own protein powder! Thank you!

    in theory regular protein powder could be made at home too- but Its like greek yogurt- sure you can make it at home- but why when the big tub is only 4.99$. I cant' be bothered. #toomuchwork #lazylifter

    It's the kind of project I like to try once just to do it . . . before I go back to buying it. :D
  • JoRocka
    JoRocka Posts: 17,525 Member
    janejellyroll wrote: »
    JoRocka wrote: »
    janejellyroll wrote: »
    Amazing link -- I love trying stuff at home and it never occurred to me that I could try making my own protein powder! Thank you!

    in theory regular protein powder could be made at home too- but Its like greek yogurt- sure you can make it at home- but why when the big tub is only 4.99$. I cant' be bothered. #toomuchwork #lazylifter

    It's the kind of project I like to try once just to do it . . . before I go back to buying it. :D

    I hear that.

    I tried the yogurt thing 2x. It works- I mean- I can do it- but yeah- #lazy.
  • lemurcat12
    lemurcat12 Posts: 30,886 Member
    dragthewaters1991 wrote: »
    lemurcat12 wrote: »
    https://www.wikihow.com/Make-Pea-Protein-Powder

    That's not a protein *isolate* which is what is in commercial powders. That's just roasted blended peas.

    Also once again I never said protein powders are *BAD* just because they are processed in my initial post. In fact I said the opposite, I said they are fine. I don't know why everyone is intent on putting words in my mouth. But OP seemed to want to avoid processed foods due to health concerns which is why I even mentioned that.

    Yes, I addressed the more typical pea protein later in my post, as I am sure you know, so I'm not sure why you are pretending I did not.

    You are using "processed" in an atypical way also. I still want to know why pea protein used as I described would be "unhealthy" or something to avoid (and if you don't think so, just say that).
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