Need advice from vegans: How much protein do I really need to be consuming.... REALLY??

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13

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  • dragthewaters1991
    dragthewaters1991 Posts: 45 Member
    edited February 2018
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    janejellyroll wrote: »
    Being vegan except for eggs is like being celibate except for sex. This isn't an issue with reading comprehension, it's about what "vegan" actually means.

    I didn't say I was vegan though. I said my diet was "plant-based" (actually I said "mostly plant-based" which should not have caused any confusion). Go back and read again. Plant-based has a different meaning from vegan, it means the majority of your diet comes from plant sources but not necessarily all of it.

  • jeannemarie333
    jeannemarie333 Posts: 214 Member
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    gems74 wrote: »
    Here’s a blog article from Rich Roll, who is an ultra marathoner and vegan. You might find this helpful.

    http://www.richroll.com/blog/slaying-the-protein-myth/

    Great blog!
  • dragthewaters1991
    dragthewaters1991 Posts: 45 Member
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    janejellyroll wrote: »
    I was responding to this: "everything is vegan except for two eggs and one serving of dairy per day."

    Virtually everyone eats some non-animal foods in a given day. That wouldn't make it accurate to say "everything is vegan . . . " as veganism is a specific ethical position.

    I understand what plant-based means. I just have concerns with people describing veganism as something that has degrees ("everything is vegan except for . . . ").

    I meant "every individual food is vegan (meaning "not containing any animal products" except for x and y." Sorry if those terms offended you.
    Also, OP has asked for advice from vegans here. You might want to consider if this is the right place to be venting your animus against processed foods, as your advice is coming from a different place.

    Except the whole reason why I even discussed that in the first place was because OP DISCUSSED wanting to only eat whole foods in her original post. This is a direct quote from her original post.

    "I took a break from MFP and calorie tracking for a couple of months but now I"m getting back into the swing of things. I am shocked at how hard it is to match the suggested protein goal while consuming vegan "whole" foods. I do sometimes drink a scoop of vegan protein powder with cashew or almond milk, but that's generally not recommended by most food experts. I'm reading that the idea is to get your protein from "real" food, not powders."

  • lemurcat12
    lemurcat12 Posts: 30,886 Member
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    On the not as healthy as "whole foods" thing, is this a reason to give up tofu and tempeh (eat only edamame)? To give up nut milks (except for the kind that contains the whole nut, which my homemade cashew milk does, but most do not, not even homemade almond milks normally)?

    I would agree that a diet largely made up of highly processed foods and thus low in fiber isn't ideal and it's important to include a variety of whole foods, especially since that basically means eat things like produce and beans/lentils and grains (which aren't really whole foods, of course), and -- if one eats meat, which OP does not, meat. But it does not follow that including any processed foods is bad or that a diet is better if it's 100% whole foods, and convenience can be important. The idea that eating some pea protein with oats and fruit and having veg on sides=bad but eating sufficient peas to get the same amount of protein is great (even if you prefer the oats and veg and fruit to peas) makes no sense to me, and I don't think any nutrition expert worth their salt would say that's what they mean.
  • PrincessTinyheart
    PrincessTinyheart Posts: 679 Member
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    Wow, there's been a lot of information shared here.... Sorry for not responding to everyone but I'll try to summarize...

    I feel great physically and mentally on my existing diet - energetic, no digestive issues or known health issues at all. I have a fairly active lifestyle.... I have a desk job but walk around frequently. I also go to the gym 2 times a week for weight training and P90X classes and belly dance 1 - 2 hours a week on average (this past weekend I belly danced for 10 hours.... not 10 hours straight, of course :) ). I also throw a pole dancing class in there a few times a month.Typical woman-in-midlife-crisis exercise routine.

    I personally don't have a problem with protein powders but I keep hearing from all of these sources that say you should avoid processed foods whenever possible.... but I am getting better at eating raw or cooking at home and using whole ingredients, so if I can strive for "continuous improvement" instead of trying to be 100% perfect, maybe I'll be fine.

  • dragthewaters1991
    dragthewaters1991 Posts: 45 Member
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    lemurcat12 wrote: »
    On the not as healthy as "whole foods" thing, is this a reason to give up tofu and tempeh (eat only edamame)? To give up nut milks (except for the kind that contains the whole nut, which my homemade cashew milk does, but most do not, not even homemade almond milks normally)?

    I would agree that a diet largely made up of highly processed foods and thus low in fiber isn't ideal and it's important to include a variety of whole foods, especially since that basically means eat things like produce and beans/lentils and grains (which aren't really whole foods, of course), and -- if one eats meat, which OP does not, meat. But it does not follow that including any processed foods is bad or that a diet is better if it's 100% whole foods, and convenience can be important. The idea that eating some pea protein with oats and fruit and having veg on sides=bad but eating sufficient peas to get the same amount of protein is great (even if you prefer the oats and veg and fruit to peas) makes no sense to me, and I don't think any nutrition expert worth their salt would say that's what they mean.

    Those are wildly different levels of processing. You could make tofu, tempeh, and nut/soy milks at home, if you wanted to. In fact, people have done so for centuries. Protein powders are made using industrial processing.
  • lemurcat12
    lemurcat12 Posts: 30,886 Member
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    janejellyroll wrote: »
    JoRocka wrote: »
    side note Jane- I think I finally realized on Friday that you're avatar was a turtle eating what appears to be potatoes.

    Don't ask me what I thought it was before- I'm not sure.

    There was a thread a while ago where people were discussing what they saw . . . a lot of people thought it was steak and potatoes! It was almost like a personality test, all the different things that people see in the picture . . .

    It's always looked like a turtle eating scrambled eggs to me (although I never thought through whether that was even logical).
  • lemurcat12
    lemurcat12 Posts: 30,886 Member
    edited February 2018
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    dragthewaters1991 wrote: »
    lemurcat12 wrote: »
    It's also worth noting that the concern really seems to be "you don't need huge amounts of protein" (which is not what is being discussed here)

    Literally the title of the original post is "how much protein do I really need to be consuming?"

    Obviously. The OP was in the 50s and trying to get to 78. The article -- unlike this thread -- was about the idea that people need to get bro levels of protein, which -- again -- is not being discussed here. OP is not assuming she needs to get her current bodyweight in protein, let alone more than that, or 50% of calories, or the kind of thing often recommended in bodybuilding sources.
  • janejellyroll
    janejellyroll Posts: 25,763 Member
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    dragthewaters1991 wrote: »
    lemurcat12 wrote: »
    On the not as healthy as "whole foods" thing, is this a reason to give up tofu and tempeh (eat only edamame)? To give up nut milks (except for the kind that contains the whole nut, which my homemade cashew milk does, but most do not, not even homemade almond milks normally)?

    I would agree that a diet largely made up of highly processed foods and thus low in fiber isn't ideal and it's important to include a variety of whole foods, especially since that basically means eat things like produce and beans/lentils and grains (which aren't really whole foods, of course), and -- if one eats meat, which OP does not, meat. But it does not follow that including any processed foods is bad or that a diet is better if it's 100% whole foods, and convenience can be important. The idea that eating some pea protein with oats and fruit and having veg on sides=bad but eating sufficient peas to get the same amount of protein is great (even if you prefer the oats and veg and fruit to peas) makes no sense to me, and I don't think any nutrition expert worth their salt would say that's what they mean.

    Those are wildly different levels of processing. You could make tofu, tempeh, and nut/soy milks at home, if you wanted to. In fact, people have done so for centuries. Protein powders are made using industrial processing.

    What's inherently bad about industrial processing? Why is it, in and of itself, something to avoid?
  • lemurcat12
    lemurcat12 Posts: 30,886 Member
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    dragthewaters1991 wrote: »
    lemurcat12 wrote: »
    On the not as healthy as "whole foods" thing, is this a reason to give up tofu and tempeh (eat only edamame)? To give up nut milks (except for the kind that contains the whole nut, which my homemade cashew milk does, but most do not, not even homemade almond milks normally)?

    I would agree that a diet largely made up of highly processed foods and thus low in fiber isn't ideal and it's important to include a variety of whole foods, especially since that basically means eat things like produce and beans/lentils and grains (which aren't really whole foods, of course), and -- if one eats meat, which OP does not, meat. But it does not follow that including any processed foods is bad or that a diet is better if it's 100% whole foods, and convenience can be important. The idea that eating some pea protein with oats and fruit and having veg on sides=bad but eating sufficient peas to get the same amount of protein is great (even if you prefer the oats and veg and fruit to peas) makes no sense to me, and I don't think any nutrition expert worth their salt would say that's what they mean.

    Those are wildly different levels of processing. You could make tofu, tempeh, and nut/soy milks at home, if you wanted to. In fact, people have done so for centuries. Protein powders are made using industrial processing.

    https://www.wikihow.com/Make-Pea-Protein-Powder

    Bigger issue, it's basically similar to eating egg whites or low fat dairy (yes, those are not vegan! but easy analogy). Or, heck, a juice or peanut powder.

    You are using part of the pea (the protein) and removing the starch and fiber. (Here's an explanation: https://legionathletics.com/pea-protein/)

    Now, obviously, I think starch and fiber are generally desirable in a diet, but we aren't talking about eliminating them, we are talking about using the protein so it can be added to other things.

    Again, my example of someone PREFERRING a smoothie or oats with fruit (and veg on the side) in the morning, but also wanting protein. The idea that adding protein to those foods = bad, but eating peas and getting the same number of calories and protein from them = good is not actually a very sensible approach to nutrition. It places simplistic rules (processed = bad) over reality (look at the actual make up of the foods and how you feel and what will help you get a good diet).

    I don't care if anyone consumes protein powder (I try not to rely on it excessively since I prefer having a varied diet and I like beans and lentils and tofu -- which again is processed too), but if people are being told it's bad for them or not a good thing to consume, I think that ought to be based on reality. Saying that "processed foods" are always bad, also, includes a whole lot more than protein powder and, of course, is not even true. That's why I think it's important to push back.

    A good, nutrient dense diet is important, but thinking that avoiding processed foods is the best way to get there isn't correct. You need to understand nutrition at least some, and if you do you may find that some processed foods can be helpful and make life easier and your dietary choices easier to sustain.
  • lemurcat12
    lemurcat12 Posts: 30,886 Member
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    PrincessTinyheart wrote: »
    Wow, there's been a lot of information shared here.... Sorry for not responding to everyone but I'll try to summarize...

    I feel great physically and mentally on my existing diet - energetic, no digestive issues or known health issues at all. I have a fairly active lifestyle.... I have a desk job but walk around frequently. I also go to the gym 2 times a week for weight training and P90X classes and belly dance 1 - 2 hours a week on average (this past weekend I belly danced for 10 hours.... not 10 hours straight, of course :) ). I also throw a pole dancing class in there a few times a month.Typical woman-in-midlife-crisis exercise routine.

    I personally don't have a problem with protein powders but I keep hearing from all of these sources that say you should avoid processed foods whenever possible.... but I am getting better at eating raw or cooking at home and using whole ingredients, so if I can strive for "continuous improvement" instead of trying to be 100% perfect, maybe I'll be fine.

    I think if you aren't hungry and feel good the amount of protein you are eating is probably fine, but when on a deficit -- which is a different situation than when eating at maintenance -- muscle loss is a concern, and more of a concern for a woman as you age (I don't know your age and am not assuming anything, but I am in my 40s, so it's a concern for me). Thus, the 78 g seems like a worthy goal, although if you don't get it all the time no biggie.

    I don't think you need to consume protein powders, but as janejellyroll said if someone is telling you to avoid protein powders because they are not as good (or that raw is necessarily better than not), that person is not to be trusted. This is especially true since many times that will extend to NO soy (meaning no tofu or tempeh), no seitan, so on, and I think it does make it much harder than necessary.

    Anyway, sounds like you are doing well.
  • NoExcusesFromNowOn
    NoExcusesFromNowOn Posts: 76 Member
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    I eat textured vegetable protein tvp and 100% whey from bobs red mill. I eat eggs and seafood so not sure what you want to call me. I used to be a very pure carbohydratarian!!!
  • lemurcat12
    lemurcat12 Posts: 30,886 Member
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    adamlambert1877 wrote: »
    I eat textured vegetable protein tvp and 100% whey from bobs red mill. I eat eggs and seafood so not sure what you want to call me. I used to be a very pure carbohydratarian!!!

    If seafood is the only meat you eat, probably a pescatarian.

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