Need to crack this sugar addiction.....if I could just do that I know I would succeed !

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  • kommodevaran
    kommodevaran Posts: 17,890 Member
    stevencloser wrote: »
    kommodevaran wrote: »
    CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »
    AnvilHead wrote: »
    bleej wrote: »
    Sugar IS addictive and an addiction. Cocaine is a harmless plant processed into a white addictive powder. Sugar? A harmless plant processed into a white addictive powder. Just because you don't act high or do goofy things, does not mean you don't have an addiction...

    The first time I see somebody on their knees in a dark alley for a sugar hit, maybe I'll believe in "sugar addiction".

    or some disheveled man creeping up to me asking me "hey you got a ho ho on ya"
    This such a a funny comparison because sugar is practically free, legal for everybody to buy and use without a licence, and available everywhere.

    Except people don't shovel pure sugar into their mouths, they buy sweets which aren't practically free by a long shot.
    Speaking of which, how many people DO shovel pure sugar into their mouths to "get a fix" when they can't get the sweets they would want? Cause that's a thing that happen with strong addictions, people will even go as far as take stuff that they know is acutely dangerous to their health just to scratch that itch.
    Well I did as a child, but I don't think it's important. I also overate sweets constantly even though my teeth hurt, and I wasn't oblivious to the impact it had. I still don't call it addiction. I just felt left without any viable alternatives.
  • lemurcat12
    lemurcat12 Posts: 30,886 Member
    kommodevaran wrote: »
    Fruit has flavors you have to learn to like

    I don't think this is true. The main flavor fruits have is sweet (many of them are pretty intensely sweet too). I think children (who are born mainly wanting sweet and having to learn to like other flavors, if memory serves) generally enjoy fruit. I can't remember back to my own baby or toddlerhood, but I know my sister did, and most small children I know now love fruit, and by the time my memory kicks in I recall loving it. Some kids have weird texture issues with some fruit, but they still tend to enjoy juice (which is the flavor alone).

    I think if it had been more available in my house growing up (climate issues, and fresh produce being less available in general than now) I would have snacked on it more.

    I even now tend to crave fruit when I want juicy and sweet.

    I would agree that dessert-type foods can be more difficult not to overeat (or stop eating), but for me that's not because they are sweeter -- as an adult I tend to find less sweet desserts more appealing (desserts that are probably less sweet than a piece of fruit -- certainly less so than the pineapple I ate with my dinner last night). For me the reason it is harder to stop eating is that it is LESS purely sugar than the fruit and offers more complexity of flavor plus the mouth-feel and satisfaction of fat. I do think that having a lot of different desires hit (the complexity) can make the satiety point harder to hit. (That's actually one reason I think it's harder to avoid overeating these days without effort -- food is so varied, as well as available. Kids tend to find a lot of that unappealing at first, but generally people grow out of that.)

    Anyway, for the purposes of this thread, I think OP has said her concern is not fruit and people certainly have difficulty moderating dessert-type sweets and not fruit (even if fruit is eaten for dessert). Plus, you can often eat a huge volume of fruit for the same calories, and it provides nutrients, as you also note. Makes sense to me to distinguish the two, and NOT to distinguish sweets from other easily overeaten foods you tend to have trouble moderating, whatever they may be. (My issues were always savory foods more than sweets, but some sweets too, and we all have different tastes, which I think is what actually determines the specific foods one goes for.)

    Also would agree that once you get into the cycle of seeing something as forbidden fruit it's something more going on that can make moderation extra hard and that actual fruit (ironically) is free of that whole thing. Well, I guess unless you believe all the claptrap about how bananas or watermelon or whatever cause obesity and are the one terrible food you should avoid or whatever that ad is. ;-)
  • lemurcat12
    lemurcat12 Posts: 30,886 Member
    edited February 2018
    ThatHealthyCaper wrote: »
    GrammiJano wrote: »
    Thank u it's just that when I eat say a small sweet or a cereal bar it just seems to make me crave more it's like I have no self control at all. Wish it was different.

    I can totally relate to this! And I do believe it is more addictive than cigarettes! I quit smoking yet it seems impossible to quit sugar.

    I think why this can be, is usually because you KNOW that smoking the cigarettes will start the addiction again and that smoking is very bad for you. It's easy to think that having a Cadbury egg (or whatever) is harmless, because in reality it probably is, and for most of us even overeating isn't that major a thing -- the evidence DOES show that when someone has a concrete reason to lose weight (like a specific health problem) it's easier.

    For me, dealing with this issue wasn't really like dealing with an addiction (except the think the consequences through concept can be useful). Instead, it was similar to other ways to compare short term and long term benefits. YES, overeating today is no big thing, and I won't gain meaningful weight, but if I change the focus to having a buy in to a longer term plan (often one that I can believe will work for me as a way of life) than I am choosing between complying with the plan (which I believe is good for me) and hitting my goals as planned vs. not. The choice begins to mean something.

    IMO, this is easier if you work in things you couldn't imagine living without, but in an occasional and controlled way, but what those things are is going to vary person by person.

    Point is that what makes it difficult is that you need to have a concrete reason, and a way to make a small choice that gives immediate pleasure and little immediate negative be part of the broader whole.
    As a rule, I do my best to avoid refined sugars (but those damn Cadbury Easter Creme Eggs get me every time)! I feel like those are the ones that are the worst for you.

    Sugar is sugar, but some foods with sugar (often it's refined sugar, but it's the food as a whole that's the difference) are easier to overeat, more caloric (often due to fat as much as sugar), and low in nutrients, so it's not that the sugar in fruit (or whatever) is different or other sugar is worse for you, it's that fruit tends to be nutritious, lower cal, harder to overeat.

    I really hate things like the Sanfilippo "detox," not only because (as you say) of course it is not a detox, but because it is basically low carb, and anti fruit, as if carbs and specifically fruit were bad and to be "detoxed" from. Some might find it helpful (I suspect it's more that doing some plan that promises effects is fun for some), but most people who struggle with control over some trigger foods or sweets or whatever have no particular reason to cut out fruit. IMO, most people probably could eat more fruit. (Actually, as I recall Sanfilippo is paleo, so no legumes, grains, or dairy. I definitely think there's no benefit for cutting legumes, and probably not dairy or whole grains, for the vast majority of people on the so-called SAD.)

    I find taking a break from sweets (snack or dessert-type foods with added sugar) occasionally is helpful for me, but some find that more triggering or problematic than eating the foods in moderation, so it will depend on the person.
  • CharlieBeansmomTracey
    CharlieBeansmomTracey Posts: 7,682 Member
    lemurcat12 wrote: »
    ThatHealthyCaper wrote: »
    GrammiJano wrote: »
    Thank u it's just that when I eat say a small sweet or a cereal bar it just seems to make me crave more it's like I have no self control at all. Wish it was different.

    I can totally relate to this! And I do believe it is more addictive than cigarettes! I quit smoking yet it seems impossible to quit sugar.

    I think why this can be, is usually because you KNOW that smoking the cigarettes will start the addiction again and that smoking is very bad for you. It's easy to think that having a Cadbury egg (or whatever) is harmless, because in reality it probably is, and for most of us even overeating isn't that major a thing -- the evidence DOES show that when someone has a concrete reason to lose weight (like a specific health problem) it's easier.

    For me, dealing with this issue wasn't really like dealing with an addiction (except the think the consequences through concept can be useful). Instead, it was similar to other ways to compare short term and long term benefits. YES, overeating today is no big thing, and I won't gain meaningful weight, but if I change the focus to having a buy in to a longer term plan (often one that I can believe will work for me as a way of life) than I am choosing between complying with the plan (which I believe is good for me) and hitting my goals as planned vs. not. The choice begins to mean something.

    IMO, this is easier if you work in things you couldn't imagine living without, but in an occasional and controlled way, but what those things are is going to vary person by person.

    Point is that what makes it difficult is that you need to have a concrete reason, and a way to make a small choice that gives immediate pleasure and little immediate negative be part of the broader whole.
    As a rule, I do my best to avoid refined sugars (but those damn Cadbury Easter Creme Eggs get me every time)! I feel like those are the ones that are the worst for you.

    Sugar is sugar, but some foods with sugar (often it's refined sugar, but it's the food as a whole that's the difference) are easier to overeat, more caloric (often due to fat as much as sugar), and low in nutrients, so it's not that the sugar in fruit (or whatever) is different or other sugar is worse for you, it's that fruit tends to be nutritious, lower cal, harder to overeat.

    I really hate things like the Sanfilippo "detox," not only because (as you say) of course it is not a detox, but because it is basically low carb, and anti fruit, as if carbs and specifically fruit were bad and to be "detoxed" from. Some might find it helpful (I suspect it's more that doing some plan that promises effects is fun for some), but most people who struggle with control over some trigger foods or sweets or whatever have no particular reason to cut out fruit. IMO, most people probably could eat more fruit. (Actually, as I recall Sanfilippo is paleo, so no legumes, grains, or dairy. I definitely think there's no benefit for cutting legumes, and probably not dairy or whole grains, for the vast majority of people on the so-called SAD.)

    I find taking a break from sweets (snack or dessert-type foods with added sugar) occasionally is helpful for me, but some find that more triggering or problematic than eating the foods in moderation, so it will depend on the person.

    its not hard to overeat fruit. you put some cherries in front of me and I can eat more than 3lbs in a setting. watermelon, or any type melon yep I can eat a LOT of it. thats one reason I gained weight. I thought oh I cant get fat its fruit. yep I was going way over my calories just from the fruit I was eating. I can eat a whole pineapple myself too. now I make it fit like everything else into my calories.like today I had one cookie and was fine with it. some days I want more than one. just depends on my mood too.
  • ITUSGirl51
    ITUSGirl51 Posts: 192 Member
    lemurcat12 wrote: »
    bleej wrote: »
    And diet sugar substitutes DO give you sugar cravings.

    Not me. You can't claim this for others.

    Maybe for you. OP should figure out what works for her. (I don't think she even brought up diet soda or whatever, so really this seems to be derailing the thread.)
    I can enjoy Sweet and Low added to a cup of coffee every morning and sometimes at night. It HELPS my sugar cravings. I like Sweet and Low more than Splenda or Equal.

  • kommodevaran
    kommodevaran Posts: 17,890 Member
    Carlos_421 wrote: »
    kommodevaran wrote: »
    CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »
    for those who say its a craving,do you crave fruits,diary,etc? because all those things have sugar in them. wouldnt those things make you crave more and more of those things because of sugar? and table sugar,HFCS and so on all come from natural sources(mostly veggies and some fruits).
    White sugar is destilled from plants. So the sugar is the same. But so called junk food is very easy to eat (practically predigested, simple, strong flavors, it offers no resistance) and has little nutritional value besides the sugar/fat. So there is no "stop" to junk food. Fruit has flavors you have to learn to like, it isn't that intensely sweet, and you get enough. Fruit isn't vilified AND heavily marketed, either.

    The idea that junk food is practically predigested is just silly. Highly palatable? Yes (due largely to the fat content).

    Also, sugar is naturally white. People seem to think it's bleached or processed to get it that way but nope, that's its natural color.
    It's not "just silly", you think it's silly, and that's ok.

    I don't think sugar is bleached in order to be white. "White sugar" could be the wrong term, is it "table sugar"?
  • kommodevaran
    kommodevaran Posts: 17,890 Member
    lemurcat12 wrote: »
    kommodevaran wrote: »
    Fruit has flavors you have to learn to like

    I don't think this is true. The main flavor fruits have is sweet (many of them are pretty intensely sweet too). I think children (who are born mainly wanting sweet and having to learn to like other flavors, if memory serves) generally enjoy fruit. I can't remember back to my own baby or toddlerhood, but I know my sister did, and most small children I know now love fruit, and by the time my memory kicks in I recall loving it. Some kids have weird texture issues with some fruit, but they still tend to enjoy juice (which is the flavor alone).
    But I didn't say that all the flavors in all fruits need habituation. I meant that there are so many components in many fruits, and that some of them need habituation. I rememeber I had to get used to seasonal fruit every year, growing up. That doesn't mean I didn't enjoy them once I got into it.
  • kommodevaran
    kommodevaran Posts: 17,890 Member
    AnvilHead wrote: »
    stevencloser wrote: »
    kommodevaran wrote: »
    CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »
    AnvilHead wrote: »
    bleej wrote: »
    Sugar IS addictive and an addiction. Cocaine is a harmless plant processed into a white addictive powder. Sugar? A harmless plant processed into a white addictive powder. Just because you don't act high or do goofy things, does not mean you don't have an addiction...

    The first time I see somebody on their knees in a dark alley for a sugar hit, maybe I'll believe in "sugar addiction".

    or some disheveled man creeping up to me asking me "hey you got a ho ho on ya"
    This such a a funny comparison because sugar is practically free, legal for everybody to buy and use without a licence, and available everywhere.

    Except people don't shovel pure sugar into their mouths, they buy sweets which aren't practically free by a long shot.
    Speaking of which, how many people DO shovel pure sugar into their mouths to "get a fix" when they can't get the sweets they would want? Cause that's a thing that happen with strong addictions, people will even go as far as take stuff that they know is acutely dangerous to their health just to scratch that itch.

    I've seen alcoholics drink mouthwash or even Sterno to get their fix. I've seen smokers rummaging through ash trays or picking up discarded cigarette butts off the street to get a couple drags off them.

    Both alcohol and tobacco are legal for everybody to buy and use without a license, and available everywhere.


    I've never seen a "sugar addict" digging donuts out of a trash can and licking the sugar off them to feed their "addiction". Nor have I ever seen a "sugar addict" committing residential burglaries, stealing from family/friends or engaging in prostitution to fund their "habit" (as often seen in true "addicts").

    And here's what research has to say about "sugar addiction": https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28330706
    Heh, I stole sweets at home, even made a feeble attempt at shoplifting once, very embarrassing.

    Are you saying that kids can buy alcohol and tobacco legally where you live??
  • lemurcat12
    lemurcat12 Posts: 30,886 Member
    kommodevaran wrote: »
    lemurcat12 wrote: »
    kommodevaran wrote: »
    Fruit has flavors you have to learn to like

    I don't think this is true. The main flavor fruits have is sweet (many of them are pretty intensely sweet too). I think children (who are born mainly wanting sweet and having to learn to like other flavors, if memory serves) generally enjoy fruit. I can't remember back to my own baby or toddlerhood, but I know my sister did, and most small children I know now love fruit, and by the time my memory kicks in I recall loving it. Some kids have weird texture issues with some fruit, but they still tend to enjoy juice (which is the flavor alone).
    But I didn't say that all the flavors in all fruits need habituation. I meant that there are so many components in many fruits, and that some of them need habituation. I rememeber I had to get used to seasonal fruit every year, growing up. That doesn't mean I didn't enjoy them once I got into it.

    I just disagree; I don't think the flavors in fruit are complicated or ones that one has to learn to like, no more so than the flavors in anything else (including so called sweets).

    But if it's a matter of taste there's no way to change anyone's mind.

    Re: ""White sugar" could be the wrong term, is it "table sugar"?"

    Yeah, I'd call what I think you are talking about table sugar.

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