So confused. How does your body actually lose fat?
Replies
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catherineg3 wrote: »as long as insulin is up, even if you are eating at a moderate calorie deficit, you will not burn body fat for fuel, instead, you will feel very hungry and your metabolism will slow down to match the reduced calorie intake.
So, to lose fat on high carb, low calorie diet ...
How do you explain how so many people here have had success losing body fat while eating at a calorie deficit and including moderate or even high levels of carbohydrates in their diet?
People have pointed this out to you before, but not doing keto doesn't automatically translate into a high carbohydrate diet. That you always jump to "high carb" as the only alternative to keto isn't a legitimate way to frame the issue. Not doing keto means . . . not doing keto. Someone who makes that choice can be eating high carbohydrate, sure. But they could also just do moderate carb or even low carb.
Frustrated with misinformation? Look within before you start calling people out. Carbs are the source of obesity and diabetes? Not excess calories? We've been eating carbohydrates for as long as we've been a species. Our closest animal relatives all eat carbohydrates. Obesity and diabetes are relatively modern issues as serious health concerns for our species. Your logic doesn't hold up.29 -
catherineg3 wrote: »I'm starting to get a little frustrated with the misinformation that people have and continue to propagate. basically, carbs are 100% the cause of obesity and diabetes. Eat carbs, blood sugar goes up, release insulin (or inject for some diabetics), INSULIN signals the body to store glucose in the blood AS FAT. as long as insulin is up, even if you are eating at a moderate calorie deficit, you will not burn body fat for fuel, instead, you will feel very hungry and your metabolism will slow down to match the reduced calorie intake.
So, to lose fat on high carb, low calorie diet, you have to be low enough calories in that your body needs food and has already burned through ALL that you have consumed and used all easy glycogen stores, so after at least 8-12 hours of not eating anything, finally blood sugar and insulin levels drop, and then (probably about 5 or 6 am by this time...) your body will convert a small amount of stored fat to energy. then you wake up, have breakfast and go back to high insulin and burning calories consumed and body still trying to store fat instead of burn it. This is a hard slow road, but it will eventually reduce weight.
To lose weight on a low carb diet, your body is never given enough carbs to fuel base metabolic needs, so it learns to burn fat for fuel. once you're in ketosis and always burning fat, your body can so easily burn excess body fat for fuel, you won't feel as hungry. without so much insulin all the time, your body won't store fat, even if you eat higher calorie.
I also would suggest you look into intermittent fasting and time restricted eating. You don't have to go crazy with the fasting for days on end, which is hard, but consider trying at least *12 hours each day no food, water only* and if you are on a strict low calorie, that probably means you have to give up evening snacks to stay under your limit, so this is pretty easy. If you can push that to about 16 hours each day no food, even better.
whatever diet you choose, be prepared to maintain it long term to maintain your goal weight.
If your tired of misinformation than stop posting it. Your whole post is just plain not true and pretty much ignores dietary physiology. You don't understand the role of insulin and it's function to bring nutrition to the cellular level. Fat doesn't get stored in a calorie deficit only in a surplus. I could go on and on. About the only thing in your post that is accurate is the last sentence.
Seriously, stop accusing people of being wrong in threads and then posting a big steaming pile of misinformation.
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catherineg3 wrote: »I'm starting to get a little frustrated with the misinformation that people have and continue to propagate. basically, carbs are 100% the cause of obesity and diabetes. Eat carbs, blood sugar goes up, release insulin (or inject for some diabetics), INSULIN signals the body to store glucose in the blood AS FAT. as long as insulin is up, even if you are eating at a moderate calorie deficit, you will not burn body fat for fuel, instead, you will feel very hungry and your metabolism will slow down to match the reduced calorie intake.
So, to lose fat on high carb, low calorie diet, you have to be low enough calories in that your body needs food and has already burned through ALL that you have consumed and used all easy glycogen stores, so after at least 8-12 hours of not eating anything, finally blood sugar and insulin levels drop, and then (probably about 5 or 6 am by this time...) your body will convert a small amount of stored fat to energy. then you wake up, have breakfast and go back to high insulin and burning calories consumed and body still trying to store fat instead of burn it. This is a hard slow road, but it will eventually reduce weight.
To lose weight on a low carb diet, your body is never given enough carbs to fuel base metabolic needs, so it learns to burn fat for fuel. once you're in ketosis and always burning fat, your body can so easily burn excess body fat for fuel, you won't feel as hungry. without so much insulin all the time, your body won't store fat, even if you eat higher calorie.
I also would suggest you look into intermittent fasting and time restricted eating. You don't have to go crazy with the fasting for days on end, which is hard, but consider trying at least *12 hours each day no food, water only* and if you are on a strict low calorie, that probably means you have to give up evening snacks to stay under your limit, so this is pretty easy. If you can push that to about 16 hours each day no food, even better.
whatever diet you choose, be prepared to maintain it long term to maintain your goal weight.
No....just no, that is not how that works. Insulin just regulates your blood glucose concentration. Sure, if your blood glucose concentration is too high your body will produce insulin which will signal cells to uptake glucose from your blood and either utilize it or, if energy is not required, store it as glycogen (not fat). It will also inhibit metabolic pathways for the breakdown of glycogen. But, and this is the critical point, if you are in caloric deficit then your body WILL be requiring energy and that glucose will either just get utilized in that moment or either glycogen or fat stores will be tapped for energy production.
As blood glucose is kept in a homeostatic balance that of course means insulin has a counterpart which is glucagon. In cases where blood sugar is low glucagon will be produced which raises blood glucose levels by stimulating the breakdown of glycogen into glucose or the conversion of fat into sugars through various metabolic pathways.
Insulin doesn't just make you immune to thermodynamics and prevent the breakdown of fats and your metabolism cannot just be "turned down" like that, it doesn't work that way. If you are running a marathon and stop to down a bunch of donuts then sure your blood sugar will spike, your pancreas will produce insulin which will shut down any mobilization of glucose from glycogen stored and instruct cells to uptake glucose from the blood until levels return to their homeostatic levels but that glucose is just going to get utilized for metabolic energy production to fuel muscles and you are still going to have to mobilize fat stores to make up for any additional caloric deficit. As soon as that additional glucose is taken up and utilized and blood sugar levels drop to nominal in your blood insulin will stop being produced. If your level drops below nominal glucogon will get produced and glycogen stores will get mobilized to bring it back up.
Insulin isn't some boogieman, it is just one hormone within your bodies homeostatic regulatory system that helps keep solutes at their nominal levels.27 -
catherineg3 wrote: »I'm starting to get a little frustrated with the misinformation that people have and continue to propagate. basically, carbs are 100% the cause of obesity and diabetes. Eat carbs, blood sugar goes up, release insulin (or inject for some diabetics), INSULIN signals the body to store glucose in the blood AS FAT. as long as insulin is up, even if you are eating at a moderate calorie deficit, you will not burn body fat for fuel, instead, you will feel very hungry and your metabolism will slow down to match the reduced calorie intake.
So, to lose fat on high carb, low calorie diet, you have to be low enough calories in that your body needs food and has already burned through ALL that you have consumed and used all easy glycogen stores, so after at least 8-12 hours of not eating anything, finally blood sugar and insulin levels drop, and then (probably about 5 or 6 am by this time...) your body will convert a small amount of stored fat to energy. then you wake up, have breakfast and go back to high insulin and burning calories consumed and body still trying to store fat instead of burn it. This is a hard slow road, but it will eventually reduce weight.
To lose weight on a low carb diet, your body is never given enough carbs to fuel base metabolic needs, so it learns to burn fat for fuel. once you're in ketosis and always burning fat, your body can so easily burn excess body fat for fuel, you won't feel as hungry. without so much insulin all the time, your body won't store fat, even if you eat higher calorie.
I also would suggest you look into intermittent fasting and time restricted eating. You don't have to go crazy with the fasting for days on end, which is hard, but consider trying at least *12 hours each day no food, water only* and if you are on a strict low calorie, that probably means you have to give up evening snacks to stay under your limit, so this is pretty easy. If you can push that to about 16 hours each day no food, even better.
whatever diet you choose, be prepared to maintain it long term to maintain your goal weight.
You don't have a clue what you're talking about...
And once again...why if it's not keto is it a default to high carb/low fat/low calorie. Have you ever heard of a balanced diet?
Do you not realize that there are many nutritious sources of carbohydrates and that not all carbohydrates are sugar and highly refined?
The biggest cause of diabetes isn't carbs...it's being overweight and obese.
Your notion that you're just going to be hungry if you're not doing keto is ridiculous. I've never been and never will do keto...I'm not hungry at all...I eat around 2500-2700 calories to lose weight. I've lost 40 Lbs really easily...I was never hungry and I've maintained going on 5 years.
You seriously have no clue what the *kitten* you're talking about...Lol...you don't even understand the roll insulin actually plays in your body...spoiler alert, it's pretty figgin' important.20 -
catherineg3 wrote: »I'm starting to get a little frustrated with the misinformation that people have and continue to propagate. basically, carbs are 100% the cause of obesity and diabetes. Eat carbs, blood sugar goes up, release insulin (or inject for some diabetics), INSULIN signals the body to store glucose in the blood AS FAT. as long as insulin is up, even if you are eating at a moderate calorie deficit, you will not burn body fat for fuel, instead, you will feel very hungry and your metabolism will slow down to match the reduced calorie intake.
So, to lose fat on high carb, low calorie diet, you have to be low enough calories in that your body needs food and has already burned through ALL that you have consumed and used all easy glycogen stores, so after at least 8-12 hours of not eating anything, finally blood sugar and insulin levels drop, and then (probably about 5 or 6 am by this time...) your body will convert a small amount of stored fat to energy. then you wake up, have breakfast and go back to high insulin and burning calories consumed and body still trying to store fat instead of burn it. This is a hard slow road, but it will eventually reduce weight.
To lose weight on a low carb diet, your body is never given enough carbs to fuel base metabolic needs, so it learns to burn fat for fuel. once you're in ketosis and always burning fat, your body can so easily burn excess body fat for fuel, you won't feel as hungry. without so much insulin all the time, your body won't store fat, even if you eat higher calorie.
I also would suggest you look into intermittent fasting and time restricted eating. You don't have to go crazy with the fasting for days on end, which is hard, but consider trying at least *12 hours each day no food, water only* and if you are on a strict low calorie, that probably means you have to give up evening snacks to stay under your limit, so this is pretty easy. If you can push that to about 16 hours each day no food, even better.
whatever diet you choose, be prepared to maintain it long term to maintain your goal weight.
Not sure where you are getting your misinformation .... plenty of people lose fat on high carbs, plenty of people get lean on high carbs. What about cultures where carbs make up the majority of intake? What about vegans and vegetarians? It all comes down to being in a deficit.
I personally eat a high amount of carbs in a deficit, I feel great, I don't get hungry, fats for me aren't filling (volume eater here), I don't fast, I lose weight just fine.
So how did I burn fat eating so many carbs? How did I get really lean and lower my bodyfat so efficiently? Magic? No.. I ate in a deficit, and ate enough protein and lifted to preserve muscle.
By the way, why is insulin always pegged as evil, it is my best friend right now since it is allowing me to build muscle (in a surplus).
If low carb/keto works for you, that is fantastic. But it is not the only way to lose weight or be successful. And for many people low carb or keto is not sustainable or optimal for their goals.16 -
catherineg3 wrote: »I'm starting to get a little frustrated with the misinformation that people have and continue to propagate. basically, carbs are 100% the cause of obesity and diabetes. Eat carbs, blood sugar goes up, release insulin (or inject for some diabetics), INSULIN signals the body to store glucose in the blood AS FAT. as long as insulin is up, even if you are eating at a moderate calorie deficit, you will not burn body fat for fuel, instead, you will feel very hungry and your metabolism will slow down to match the reduced calorie intake.
So, to lose fat on high carb, low calorie diet, you have to be low enough calories in that your body needs food and has already burned through ALL that you have consumed and used all easy glycogen stores, so after at least 8-12 hours of not eating anything, finally blood sugar and insulin levels drop, and then (probably about 5 or 6 am by this time...) your body will convert a small amount of stored fat to energy. then you wake up, have breakfast and go back to high insulin and burning calories consumed and body still trying to store fat instead of burn it. This is a hard slow road, but it will eventually reduce weight.
To lose weight on a low carb diet, your body is never given enough carbs to fuel base metabolic needs, so it learns to burn fat for fuel. once you're in ketosis and always burning fat, your body can so easily burn excess body fat for fuel, you won't feel as hungry. without so much insulin all the time, your body won't store fat, even if you eat higher calorie.
I also would suggest you look into intermittent fasting and time restricted eating. You don't have to go crazy with the fasting for days on end, which is hard, but consider trying at least *12 hours each day no food, water only* and if you are on a strict low calorie, that probably means you have to give up evening snacks to stay under your limit, so this is pretty easy. If you can push that to about 16 hours each day no food, even better.
whatever diet you choose, be prepared to maintain it long term to maintain your goal weight.
Not sure where you are getting your misinformation .... plenty of people lose fat on high carbs, plenty of people get lean on high carbs. What about cultures where carbs make up the majority of intake? What about vegans and vegetarians? It all comes down to being in a deficit.
I personally eat a high amount of carbs in a deficit, I feel great, I don't get hungry, fats for me aren't filling (volume eater here), I don't fast, I lose weight just fine.
So how did I burn fat eating so many carbs? How did I get really lean and lower my bodyfat so efficiently? Magic? No.. I ate in a deficit, and ate enough protein and lifted to preserve muscle.
By the way, why is insulin always pegged as evil, it is my best friend right now since it is allowing me to build muscle (in a surplus).
If low carb/keto works for you, that is fantastic. But it is not the only way to lose weight or be successful. And for many people low carb or keto is not sustainable or optimal for their goals.
But you were ravenously starving and shaking because your blood sugar crashed and huddled in a corner of despair right? You can admit it...9 -
catherineg3 wrote: »I'm starting to get a little frustrated with the misinformation that people have and continue to propagate. basically, carbs are 100% the cause of obesity and diabetes. Eat carbs, blood sugar goes up, release insulin (or inject for some diabetics), INSULIN signals the body to store glucose in the blood AS FAT. as long as insulin is up, even if you are eating at a moderate calorie deficit, you will not burn body fat for fuel, instead, you will feel very hungry and your metabolism will slow down to match the reduced calorie intake.
So, to lose fat on high carb, low calorie diet, you have to be low enough calories in that your body needs food and has already burned through ALL that you have consumed and used all easy glycogen stores, so after at least 8-12 hours of not eating anything, finally blood sugar and insulin levels drop, and then (probably about 5 or 6 am by this time...) your body will convert a small amount of stored fat to energy. then you wake up, have breakfast and go back to high insulin and burning calories consumed and body still trying to store fat instead of burn it. This is a hard slow road, but it will eventually reduce weight.
To lose weight on a low carb diet, your body is never given enough carbs to fuel base metabolic needs, so it learns to burn fat for fuel. once you're in ketosis and always burning fat, your body can so easily burn excess body fat for fuel, you won't feel as hungry. without so much insulin all the time, your body won't store fat, even if you eat higher calorie.
I also would suggest you look into intermittent fasting and time restricted eating. You don't have to go crazy with the fasting for days on end, which is hard, but consider trying at least *12 hours each day no food, water only* and if you are on a strict low calorie, that probably means you have to give up evening snacks to stay under your limit, so this is pretty easy. If you can push that to about 16 hours each day no food, even better.
whatever diet you choose, be prepared to maintain it long term to maintain your goal weight.
Not sure where you are getting your misinformation .... plenty of people lose fat on high carbs, plenty of people get lean on high carbs. What about cultures where carbs make up the majority of intake? What about vegans and vegetarians? It all comes down to being in a deficit.
I personally eat a high amount of carbs in a deficit, I feel great, I don't get hungry, fats for me aren't filling (volume eater here), I don't fast, I lose weight just fine.
So how did I burn fat eating so many carbs? How did I get really lean and lower my bodyfat so efficiently? Magic? No.. I ate in a deficit, and ate enough protein and lifted to preserve muscle.
By the way, why is insulin always pegged as evil, it is my best friend right now since it is allowing me to build muscle (in a surplus).
If low carb/keto works for you, that is fantastic. But it is not the only way to lose weight or be successful. And for many people low carb or keto is not sustainable or optimal for their goals.
I could guess where she gets her info. Quacks. She won't come back and respond or read any of the intelligent scientific posts though because y'all sxience is just plain wrong.7 -
I did a little research and she's a dr fung obesity code fan.9
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If insulin was just plain "bad" and stimulating insulin production through ingestion of carbohydrates is what causes obesity then how would you explain obese type 1 diabetics given that they literally are incapable of producing insulin at all?8
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Aaron_K123 wrote: »If insulin was just plain "bad" and stimulating insulin production through ingestion of carbohydrates is what causes obesity then how would you explain obese type 1 diabetics given that they literally are incapable of producing insulin at all?
I guess since it is so "bad" it's healthier for them to go without their insulin injection/pump.2 -
catherineg3 wrote: »I'm starting to get a little frustrated with the misinformation that people have and continue to propagate. basically, carbs are 100% the cause of obesity and diabetes. Eat carbs, blood sugar goes up, release insulin (or inject for some diabetics), INSULIN signals the body to store glucose in the blood AS FAT. as long as insulin is up, even if you are eating at a moderate calorie deficit, you will not burn body fat for fuel, instead, you will feel very hungry and your metabolism will slow down to match the reduced calorie intake.
So, to lose fat on high carb, low calorie diet, you have to be low enough calories in that your body needs food and has already burned through ALL that you have consumed and used all easy glycogen stores, so after at least 8-12 hours of not eating anything, finally blood sugar and insulin levels drop, and then (probably about 5 or 6 am by this time...) your body will convert a small amount of stored fat to energy. then you wake up, have breakfast and go back to high insulin and burning calories consumed and body still trying to store fat instead of burn it. This is a hard slow road, but it will eventually reduce weight.
To lose weight on a low carb diet, your body is never given enough carbs to fuel base metabolic needs, so it learns to burn fat for fuel. once you're in ketosis and always burning fat, your body can so easily burn excess body fat for fuel, you won't feel as hungry. without so much insulin all the time, your body won't store fat, even if you eat higher calorie.
I also would suggest you look into intermittent fasting and time restricted eating. You don't have to go crazy with the fasting for days on end, which is hard, but consider trying at least *12 hours each day no food, water only* and if you are on a strict low calorie, that probably means you have to give up evening snacks to stay under your limit, so this is pretty easy. If you can push that to about 16 hours each day no food, even better.
whatever diet you choose, be prepared to maintain it long term to maintain your goal weight.
What a load of nonsense!
Your body has known how to burn fat from the day you were born - it doesn't need to learn anything or to be in ketosis. Please educate yourself, I don't know which quack you are following but they are making you look extremely silly.
You did actually get the last bit right "whatever diet you choose, be prepared to maintain it long term to maintain your goal weight" - I got fat eating a balanced diet with quite a lot of carbs, I got slim again eating the same way but just a bit less. I've maintained for over five years eating the same way.
How about you? How many years have you been maintaining?9 -
diannethegeek wrote: »Aaron_K123 wrote: »Your body is a chemical engine, it breaks down chemical bonds in hydrocarbon molecules and captures some of that energy to do work while the rest is expended in waste heat.
When you literally burn (as in with fire) a pile of sugar what is happening is that the sugar molecule (C6H12O6) is interacting with oxygen (O2) and in the increased temperature this reaction created CO2 (which is a gas) and H20 (water, which in a fire evaporates and escapes as steam) and a lot of released heat. If you burn fat (which is just a hydrated carbon chain) the overall reaction and biproducts are essentially the same. You use oxygen to oxidize the bonds and release water and carbon dioxide and energy.
Your body carries out the exact same oxidative reaction but rather than using extreme temperature it uses enzymes to catalyze the reaction and couple it in such a way that less energy is wasted as heat and some is captured in a "currency" molecule which can be coupled to other reactions to carry out the metabolic and biochemical functions of life. The waste products of this breakdown remain the same however, you take in oxygen and you release water and carbon dioxide. The carbon dioxide you breath out and the water is either used to help keep you hydrated or is excreted. There is a bit of waste heat as well which your body uses to maintain your body temp. In fact even in the case of zero activity your body is constantly utilizing some of its stored hydrocarbon fuel in order to generate heat to maintain your body temperature.
I gave a much more in depth version of this here:
http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10616800/biochemistry-answers-for-common-weight-loss-questions-what-are-macros-fats#latest
Why on Earth did this get wooed? It's the least woo-y answer I've ever seen on these forums.
b/c people still don't understand "woo."3 -
Aaron_K123 wrote: »Your body is a chemical engine, it breaks down chemical bonds in hydrocarbon molecules and captures some of that energy to do work while the rest is expended in waste heat.
When you literally burn (as in with fire) a pile of sugar what is happening is that the sugar molecule (C6H12O6) is interacting with oxygen (O2) and in the increased temperature this reaction created CO2 (which is a gas) and H20 (water, which in a fire evaporates and escapes as steam) and a lot of released heat. If you burn fat (which is just a hydrated carbon chain) the overall reaction and biproducts are essentially the same. You use oxygen to oxidize the bonds and release water and carbon dioxide and energy.
Your body carries out the exact same oxidative reaction but rather than using extreme temperature it uses enzymes to catalyze the reaction and couple it in such a way that less energy is wasted as heat and some is captured in a "currency" molecule ATP which can be coupled to other reactions to carry out the metabolic and biochemical functions of life. The waste products of this breakdown remain the same however, you take in oxygen and you release water and carbon dioxide. The carbon dioxide you breath out and the water is either used to help keep you hydrated or is excreted. There is a bit of waste heat as well which your body uses to maintain your body temp. In fact even in the case of zero activity your body is constantly utilizing some of its stored hydrocarbon fuel in order to generate heat to maintain your body temperature at 37 degrees C. Why 37 degrees? Because that is the optimal operational temperature for enzymes that catalyze those biochemical metabolic reactions.
So where does the weight go? Well your body is constantly exchanging matter with its enviornment through intake of food and water, excretion (urine, feces) as well as through breathing. Water intake and excretion is homeostatic, meaning you have to maintain a certain amount of water in your body so water intake might temporarily increase your weight but you will excrete it later to come back into balance so it can be ignored. Feces are just what is left from digestion and were never really "inside" you, they are just what is left in the tube that passes from your mouth to your *kitten* so that can be ignored as well. All that is left therefore is breath. You breath in oxygen, which is O2 and you breath our carbon dioxide, which is C02. If the carbon you are exhaling is more than the amount you are taking in from your hydrocarbon fuel sources then you will lose weight, if it is equal you will maintain and if it is higher then you will gain weight. The amount of carbon dioxide you expel is proportional to the level of metabolic activity your body is under which is influenced by your activity level. Where does the weight go when you lose weight? You breath it out through that extra carbon atom. Where does the weight go when you gain weight? The excess is converted to fat (a hydrocarbon) and stored in triglyceride storage molecules. Doesn't matter if your intake is "keto" or not.
I gave a much more in depth version of this here:
http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10616800/biochemistry-answers-for-common-weight-loss-questions-what-are-macros-fats#latest
9 -
Layne norton dies a good job of
Explaining fat loss over these 4 videos
https://youtu.be/4emMWJwFX9k
https://youtu.be/JpMbsz9T2vA
https://youtu.be/3LCrGk_jePc
https://youtu.be/ydRpBTJLH1o
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catherineg3 wrote: »I'm starting to get a little frustrated with the misinformation that people have and continue to propagate. basically, carbs are 100% the cause of obesity and diabetes. Eat carbs, blood sugar goes up, release insulin (or inject for some diabetics), INSULIN signals the body to store glucose in the blood AS FAT. as long as insulin is up, even if you are eating at a moderate calorie deficit, you will not burn body fat for fuel, instead, you will feel very hungry and your metabolism will slow down to match the reduced calorie intake.
So, to lose fat on high carb, low calorie diet, you have to be low enough calories in that your body needs food and has already burned through ALL that you have consumed and used all easy glycogen stores, so after at least 8-12 hours of not eating anything, finally blood sugar and insulin levels drop, and then (probably about 5 or 6 am by this time...) your body will convert a small amount of stored fat to energy. then you wake up, have breakfast and go back to high insulin and burning calories consumed and body still trying to store fat instead of burn it. This is a hard slow road, but it will eventually reduce weight.
To lose weight on a low carb diet, your body is never given enough carbs to fuel base metabolic needs, so it learns to burn fat for fuel. once you're in ketosis and always burning fat, your body can so easily burn excess body fat for fuel, you won't feel as hungry. without so much insulin all the time, your body won't store fat, even if you eat higher calorie.
I also would suggest you look into intermittent fasting and time restricted eating. You don't have to go crazy with the fasting for days on end, which is hard, but consider trying at least *12 hours each day no food, water only* and if you are on a strict low calorie, that probably means you have to give up evening snacks to stay under your limit, so this is pretty easy. If you can push that to about 16 hours each day no food, even better.
whatever diet you choose, be prepared to maintain it long term to maintain your goal weight.
I was actually going to reply to this steaming pile of horse manure, but you folks are right, she won't be back.8 -
catherineg3 wrote: »I'm starting to get a little frustrated with the misinformation that people have and continue to propagate. basically, carbs are 100% the cause of obesity and diabetes. Eat carbs, blood sugar goes up, release insulin (or inject for some diabetics), INSULIN signals the body to store glucose in the blood AS FAT. as long as insulin is up, even if you are eating at a moderate calorie deficit, you will not burn body fat for fuel, instead, you will feel very hungry and your metabolism will slow down to match the reduced calorie intake.
So, to lose fat on high carb, low calorie diet, you have to be low enough calories in that your body needs food and has already burned through ALL that you have consumed and used all easy glycogen stores, so after at least 8-12 hours of not eating anything, finally blood sugar and insulin levels drop, and then (probably about 5 or 6 am by this time...) your body will convert a small amount of stored fat to energy. then you wake up, have breakfast and go back to high insulin and burning calories consumed and body still trying to store fat instead of burn it. This is a hard slow road, but it will eventually reduce weight.
To lose weight on a low carb diet, your body is never given enough carbs to fuel base metabolic needs, so it learns to burn fat for fuel. once you're in ketosis and always burning fat, your body can so easily burn excess body fat for fuel, you won't feel as hungry. without so much insulin all the time, your body won't store fat, even if you eat higher calorie.
I also would suggest you look into intermittent fasting and time restricted eating. You don't have to go crazy with the fasting for days on end, which is hard, but consider trying at least *12 hours each day no food, water only* and if you are on a strict low calorie, that probably means you have to give up evening snacks to stay under your limit, so this is pretty easy. If you can push that to about 16 hours each day no food, even better.
whatever diet you choose, be prepared to maintain it long term to maintain your goal weight.
I was actually going to reply to this steaming pile of horse manure, but you folks are right, she won't be back.
Kinda ironic her post is not far after our resident PhD scientist and his awesome post.8 -
catherineg3 wrote: »I'm starting to get a little frustrated with the misinformation that people have and continue to propagate.
Me too.basically, carbs are 100% the cause of obesity and diabetes.
Here's a good example of such misinformation.12 -
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singingflutelady wrote: »catherineg3 wrote: »I'm starting to get a little frustrated with the misinformation that people have and continue to propagate. basically, carbs are 100% the cause of obesity and diabetes. Eat carbs, blood sugar goes up, release insulin (or inject for some diabetics), INSULIN signals the body to store glucose in the blood AS FAT. as long as insulin is up, even if you are eating at a moderate calorie deficit, you will not burn body fat for fuel, instead, you will feel very hungry and your metabolism will slow down to match the reduced calorie intake.
So, to lose fat on high carb, low calorie diet, you have to be low enough calories in that your body needs food and has already burned through ALL that you have consumed and used all easy glycogen stores, so after at least 8-12 hours of not eating anything, finally blood sugar and insulin levels drop, and then (probably about 5 or 6 am by this time...) your body will convert a small amount of stored fat to energy. then you wake up, have breakfast and go back to high insulin and burning calories consumed and body still trying to store fat instead of burn it. This is a hard slow road, but it will eventually reduce weight.
To lose weight on a low carb diet, your body is never given enough carbs to fuel base metabolic needs, so it learns to burn fat for fuel. once you're in ketosis and always burning fat, your body can so easily burn excess body fat for fuel, you won't feel as hungry. without so much insulin all the time, your body won't store fat, even if you eat higher calorie.
I also would suggest you look into intermittent fasting and time restricted eating. You don't have to go crazy with the fasting for days on end, which is hard, but consider trying at least *12 hours each day no food, water only* and if you are on a strict low calorie, that probably means you have to give up evening snacks to stay under your limit, so this is pretty easy. If you can push that to about 16 hours each day no food, even better.
whatever diet you choose, be prepared to maintain it long term to maintain your goal weight.
Not sure where you are getting your misinformation .... plenty of people lose fat on high carbs, plenty of people get lean on high carbs. What about cultures where carbs make up the majority of intake? What about vegans and vegetarians? It all comes down to being in a deficit.
I personally eat a high amount of carbs in a deficit, I feel great, I don't get hungry, fats for me aren't filling (volume eater here), I don't fast, I lose weight just fine.
So how did I burn fat eating so many carbs? How did I get really lean and lower my bodyfat so efficiently? Magic? No.. I ate in a deficit, and ate enough protein and lifted to preserve muscle.
By the way, why is insulin always pegged as evil, it is my best friend right now since it is allowing me to build muscle (in a surplus).
If low carb/keto works for you, that is fantastic. But it is not the only way to lose weight or be successful. And for many people low carb or keto is not sustainable or optimal for their goals.
I could guess where she gets her info. Quacks. She won't come back and respond or read any of the intelligent scientific posts though because y'all sxience is just plain wrong.
Seriously, that's what's so frustrating. I've responded in depth to a couple of her posts, and crickets.
If she's so sure she's right and we are wrong (and just carb addicts, LOL), then why not engage instead of doing the drive by thing.3 -
Aaron_K123 wrote: »There is a bit of waste heat as well which your body uses to maintain your body temp. In fact even in the case of zero activity your body is constantly utilizing some of its stored hydrocarbon fuel in order to generate heat to maintain your body temperature at 37 degrees C. Why 37 degrees? Because that is the optimal operational temperature for enzymes that catalyze those biochemical metabolic reactions.
This made me curious. So I googled animal body temps.
They are all pretty close to 37C. Chickens look to be the only one on the list I found much off that number.
Chicken 40.6–43.0 C 105.0–109.4 F
Rabbit 38.6–40.1 C 101.5–104.2 F
Sheep 38.3–39.9 C 100.9–103.8 F
Pig 38.7–39.8 C 101.6–103.6 F
Goat 38.5–39.7 C 101.3–103.5 F
Dog 37.9–39.9 C 100.2–103.8 F
Dairy cow 38.0–39.3 C 100.4–102.8 F
Cat 38.1–39.2 C 100.5–102.5 F
Beef cow 36.7–39.1 C 98.0–102.4 F
Horse 37.3–38.2 C 99.1–100.8 F
4 -
Layne norton dies a good job of
Explaining fat loss over these 4 videos
Loved that series. Don't know if you intentionally left out episode 5:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cMNjM-F52Tk
0 -
Tacklewasher wrote: »Aaron_K123 wrote: »There is a bit of waste heat as well which your body uses to maintain your body temp. In fact even in the case of zero activity your body is constantly utilizing some of its stored hydrocarbon fuel in order to generate heat to maintain your body temperature at 37 degrees C. Why 37 degrees? Because that is the optimal operational temperature for enzymes that catalyze those biochemical metabolic reactions.
This made me curious. So I googled animal body temps.
They are all pretty close to 37C. Chickens look to be the only one on the list I found much off that number.
Chicken 40.6–43.0 C 105.0–109.4 F
Rabbit 38.6–40.1 C 101.5–104.2 F
Sheep 38.3–39.9 C 100.9–103.8 F
Pig 38.7–39.8 C 101.6–103.6 F
Goat 38.5–39.7 C 101.3–103.5 F
Dog 37.9–39.9 C 100.2–103.8 F
Dairy cow 38.0–39.3 C 100.4–102.8 F
Cat 38.1–39.2 C 100.5–102.5 F
Beef cow 36.7–39.1 C 98.0–102.4 F
Horse 37.3–38.2 C 99.1–100.8 F
And there are certainly examples of life that live and temperature extremes (the ever so cleverly named extremophiles) that are obviously outside that range but they are heavily adapted where their enzymes have modifications that make them stable or active at those extremes. My graduate work was actually in modifying enzymes to make them stable at higher temperatures to make them useful for applications.
I think birds tend to run a bit hot, not sure if there is an explanation for that or not....might just be the temps they operate at best.
Edit: yeah looks like birds in general average around 38 so a little hotter https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/030096299190122S
Most bacteria are happiest at 37 as well although with quite a few exceptions. Mycobacterium leprae (causative agent of leprosy) for example is happiest at 30 degrees and doesn't do well at 37, which is why it will only grow and cause damage in extremities like nose, fingers and toes. It's close relative Mycobacteria tuberculosis (causative of tuberculosis) however is happiest at 37 and likes it just fine in your core.
.....and total tangent, sorry.8 -
Your body has known how to burn fat from the day you were born - it doesn't need to learn anything or to be in ketosis.
Actually your body does have to learn how to burn fat. When you first enter ketosis your muscles are not primed to burn them directly and use ketones. Many tissues take a few days to adjust to burning free fatty acids directly. It's expected that it's missing enzymes that must be produced to allow this.
Now the funny thing is that if you're in ketosis or starvation for long enough your body forgets how to process carbs. Then ingestion of carbs causes spikes in blood sugar as your body can't store glycogen. This is called starvation diabetes. Adjustment again takes a few days and it's probably because of down regulation of enzymes. Lyle McDonald has a great write up of the whole process and I found it incredibly interesting.
None of this changes the fact that you need a calorie deficit to loose weight and low carb only works in a deficit.
14 -
catherineg3 wrote: »I'm starting to get a little frustrated with the misinformation that people have and continue to propagate. basically, carbs are 100% the cause of obesity and diabetes. Eat carbs, blood sugar goes up, release insulin (or inject for some diabetics), INSULIN signals the body to store glucose in the blood AS FAT. as long as insulin is up, even if you are eating at a moderate calorie deficit, you will not burn body fat for fuel, instead, you will feel very hungry and your metabolism will slow down to match the reduced calorie intake.
So, to lose fat on high carb, low calorie diet, you have to be low enough calories in that your body needs food and has already burned through ALL that you have consumed and used all easy glycogen stores, so after at least 8-12 hours of not eating anything, finally blood sugar and insulin levels drop, and then (probably about 5 or 6 am by this time...) your body will convert a small amount of stored fat to energy. then you wake up, have breakfast and go back to high insulin and burning calories consumed and body still trying to store fat instead of burn it. This is a hard slow road, but it will eventually reduce weight.
To lose weight on a low carb diet, your body is never given enough carbs to fuel base metabolic needs, so it learns to burn fat for fuel. once you're in ketosis and always burning fat, your body can so easily burn excess body fat for fuel, you won't feel as hungry. without so much insulin all the time, your body won't store fat, even if you eat higher calorie.
I also would suggest you look into intermittent fasting and time restricted eating. You don't have to go crazy with the fasting for days on end, which is hard, but consider trying at least *12 hours each day no food, water only* and if you are on a strict low calorie, that probably means you have to give up evening snacks to stay under your limit, so this is pretty easy. If you can push that to about 16 hours each day no food, even better.
whatever diet you choose, be prepared to maintain it long term to maintain your goal weight.
Is this a troll post? It's not often that there is this much misinformation in one post.10 -
Why on Earth did this get wooed? It's the least woo-y answer I've ever seen on these forums.
b/c people still don't understand "woo."
When I first started on here, I took woo as exciting or really agreed with the post like woo hoo. Now with the face and terminology on forums I know better. Maybe that's it2 -
Your body has known how to burn fat from the day you were born - it doesn't need to learn anything or to be in ketosis.
Actually your body does have to learn how to burn fat. When you first enter ketosis your muscles are not primed to burn them directly and use ketones. Many tissues take a few days to adjust to burning free fatty acids directly. It's expected that it's missing enzymes that must be produced to allow this.
Now the funny thing is that if you're in ketosis or starvation for long enough your body forgets how to process carbs. Then ingestion of carbs causes spikes in blood sugar as your body can't store glycogen. This is called starvation diabetes. Adjustment again takes a few days and it's probably because of down regulation of enzymes. Lyle McDonald has a great write up of the whole process and I found it incredibly interesting.
None of this changes the fact that you need a calorie deficit to loose weight and low carb only works in a deficit.
Please link to Lyle's write up discussing this phenomenon. Lyle is highly knowledgeable about ketogenic diets (has authored several books on the topic) and I don't recall him ever discussing such a thing as "starvation diabetes" or claiming that your body "forgets how to process carbs".5 -
catherineg3 wrote: »I'm starting to get a little frustrated with the misinformation that people have and continue to propagate. basically, carbs are 100% the cause of obesity and diabetes. Eat carbs, blood sugar goes up, release insulin (or inject for some diabetics), INSULIN signals the body to store glucose in the blood AS FAT. as long as insulin is up, even if you are eating at a moderate calorie deficit, you will not burn body fat for fuel, instead, you will feel very hungry and your metabolism will slow down to match the reduced calorie intake.
So, to lose fat on high carb, low calorie diet, you have to be low enough calories in that your body needs food and has already burned through ALL that you have consumed and used all easy glycogen stores, so after at least 8-12 hours of not eating anything, finally blood sugar and insulin levels drop, and then (probably about 5 or 6 am by this time...) your body will convert a small amount of stored fat to energy. then you wake up, have breakfast and go back to high insulin and burning calories consumed and body still trying to store fat instead of burn it. This is a hard slow road, but it will eventually reduce weight.
To lose weight on a low carb diet, your body is never given enough carbs to fuel base metabolic needs, so it learns to burn fat for fuel. once you're in ketosis and always burning fat, your body can so easily burn excess body fat for fuel, you won't feel as hungry. without so much insulin all the time, your body won't store fat, even if you eat higher calorie.
I also would suggest you look into intermittent fasting and time restricted eating. You don't have to go crazy with the fasting for days on end, which is hard, but consider trying at least *12 hours each day no food, water only* and if you are on a strict low calorie, that probably means you have to give up evening snacks to stay under your limit, so this is pretty easy. If you can push that to about 16 hours each day no food, even better.
whatever diet you choose, be prepared to maintain it long term to maintain your goal weight.
22 -
Your body has known how to burn fat from the day you were born - it doesn't need to learn anything or to be in ketosis.
Actually your body does have to learn how to burn fat. When you first enter ketosis your muscles are not primed to burn them directly and use ketones. Many tissues take a few days to adjust to burning free fatty acids directly. It's expected that it's missing enzymes that must be produced to allow this.
Now the funny thing is that if you're in ketosis or starvation for long enough your body forgets how to process carbs. Then ingestion of carbs causes spikes in blood sugar as your body can't store glycogen. This is called starvation diabetes. Adjustment again takes a few days and it's probably because of down regulation of enzymes. Lyle McDonald has a great write up of the whole process and I found it incredibly interesting.
None of this changes the fact that you need a calorie deficit to loose weight and low carb only works in a deficit.
The storage and oxidation of fat is a totally normal part of everyday life and doesn't require ketosis.
Lyle McDonald is a great resource and you have clearly failed to understand what you have read!
You have a germ of truth in that in ketosis people become carb impaired due to the enzyme pyruvate dehydrogenase becoming down-regulated which isn't the same as "can't store glycogen". It's a factor for high performance athletes not people in everyday life.
Assuming you are a non-diabetic keto person try a carb refeed and see your weight zoom up as your body stores glycogen along with a load of water (1:4 ratio approximately).
5 -
Please link to Lyle's write up discussing this phenomenon. Lyle is highly knowledgeable about ketogenic diets (has authored several books on the topic) and I don't recall him ever discussing such a thing as "starvation diabetes" or claiming that your body "forgets how to process carbs".
It's in his book 'The ketogenic diet'. This from his piece talking about reintroduction of carbohydrates.
'Early ketogenic diet literature mentions a condition called ‘alloxan’ or ‘starvation diabetes’, referring to an initial
insulin resistance when carbohydrates are reintroduced to the diet following carbohydrate
restriction (2).'
'Long periods of time without carbohydrate consumption leads to a down regulation in the
enzymes responsible for carbohydrate burning. Additionally, high levels of free fatty acids in the
bloodstream may impair glucose transport (6).'
He talks about how your body adapts to lower carb levels with various tissues taking time to adjust to burning free fatty acids directly.
Note I am not making any claims about a ketogenic diet as the last two posters seem to suggest. All I am claiming is that there is an adaptation process going on in both directions it seems. During the adaption other mechanisms or fuel sources are used and performance may be degraded. It doesn't change the fundamental calories in/out equation.0 -
The storage and oxidation of fat is a totally normal part of everyday life and doesn't require ketosis.
Lyle McDonald is a great resource and you have clearly failed to understand what you have read!
I said nothing about the storage of fat. I said it takes time for some tissues to start being able to use free fatty acids directly.You have a germ of truth in that in ketosis people become carb impaired due to the enzyme pyruvate dehydrogenase becoming down-regulated which isn't the same as "can't store glycogen". It's a factor for high performance athletes not people in everyday life.
Lyle suggests it's more of a problem for people with impaired glucose processing to begin with. That doesn't sound like high performance athletes. My 'can't store glycogen' was a bit over the top in that I really should have said that it's impaired a bit. Here is what he says:
'During carbohydrate refeeding, the body upregulates levels of these enzymes but there is a delay during which the body
may have difficulty storing and utilizing dietary carbohydrates. This delay is approximately 5
hours to upregulate liver enzyme levels and anywhere from 24-48 hours in muscle tissue (8,9).
While there is a decrease in carbohydrate oxidation in the muscle, this is accompanied by an
increase in glycogen storage (7).'
0
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