How do I talk my Mom off the "Sugar is Toxic" ledge?
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kshama2001 wrote: »Mom keeps seeing these types of articles in the Times:
https://www.nytimes.com/guides/smarterliving/how-to-stop-eating-sugar
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/17/magazine/mag-17Sugar-t.html
She also has a book on brain health with the same attitude. (I don't know the title off hand.)
I've started by asking her how many grams of added sugar she consumes per day. (I already know the answer is a lot less than the average American. For starters, she doesn't drink sweetened beverages.)
Now, I'd need more than "Lustig is a quack" or "Taubes is a quack." I'd need something reputable debunking their theories. (Not random blog posts.)
I've read here a lot that our bodies don't know the difference between sugar from fruit and sugar from added sugar - are there reputable sources for this?
BTW, she's not trying to lose weight and in fact struggles to stay above Underweight because she is very very active, especially for her age (80).
TIA
I get where you are coming from. I've seen similar tendencies in my 83 year old FIL where he is bouncing from dietary fad to dietary fad because he wants to be healthy, wants to stave off disease, etc - and in fact is falling for the woo and pseudoscience that preys on people who think that a book with just enough science to sound legit, that tries to convince them that they must cut out XYZ substance in order to be healthy, that tells them that Big Sugar, or Big Pharma, or Big whomever has been deluding them all these years - is something that they need to believe.
My FIL has gone from Wheat Belly to Taubes and now his latest plan (and this is what I think the biggest area of concern is) is to eat nothing but vegetables. He's completely ignoring the concept of balance, how important fat and protein are for everyone - in favor of something he read in a book that told him that Big Grain has poisoned all our minds and we just need to eat more vegetables. Which is of course, a completely UNHEALTHY diet, even if vegetables are HEALTHY on their own. We keep telling him that of course, eating nothing but sugary sweets is not a good idea, but he wasn't doing that. He's been diabetic for years and his best readings since his diagnosis happened to be when we spent a month in Italy, eating pastries in the morning, pasta at lunch, and protein, veggies, wine and gelato for dinner - but we WALKED everywhere. It's all about balance - and my fear with him, and maybe this is what you are fearing with your Mother, is that they lose the ability to reason that out and that while cutting out some added sugar doesn't sound so bad, as our parents age they tend to go for the simple solutions because their brains can't process some of the more complex reasoning and problem solving anymore.
I saw the same with my own mother, in her progressing dementia, where she couldn't process what was on a restaurant menu anymore so she literally just asked for a cheeseburger at every meal out, not because she wanted a cheeseburger but because she knew it was a safe bet that a restaurant would have one and she didn't want to let us know that she couldn't understand what she was reading on the menu.
Good luck, I will be thinking of you.19 -
JMcGee2018 wrote: »JMcGee2018 wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »vermilionflower wrote: »Fructose separated from the fruit is just like eating any other sugar, but that's completely different than eating fruit where the fructose is not separated. Straight sugar has zero nutrition, there's no healthy amount because it isn't nutritious.kshama2001 wrote: »Mom keeps seeing these types of articles in the Times:
https://www.nytimes.com/guides/smarterliving/how-to-stop-eating-sugar
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/17/magazine/mag-17Sugar-t.html
She also has a book on brain health with the same attitude. (I don't know the title off hand.)
I've started by asking her how many grams of added sugar she consumes per day. (I already know the answer is a lot less than the average American. For starters, she doesn't drink sweetened beverages.)
Now, I'd need more than "Lustig is a quack" or "Taubes is a quack." I'd need something reputable debunking their theories. (Not random blog posts.)
I've read here a lot that our bodies don't know the difference between sugar from fruit and sugar from added sugar - are there reputable sources for this?
BTW, she's not trying to lose weight and in fact struggles to stay above Underweight because she is very very active, especially for her age (80).
TIA
On fruit, fruit has vitamins/bioflavnoids/minerals and some fiber, than does refined sugar. Sugar are empty calories, devoid of healthy nutrients except for carbs.
You guys DO know that there's a minimum amount of calories your body needs, right? If you were only eating the nutrients your body needs, the essential fats and proteins, and carbs only from the most nutritious, green vegetables for their minerals and vitamins... you'd starve to death eventually because that's something like 800 calories.
But there's no reason to be getting those calories from simple sugars. Complex carbs, protein, and healthy fats are all better ways to meet those caloric needs than bags of skittles, although both options will do the job of keeping you alive.
Agree. Fruits are considered complex carbs. Do you agree that eating a few fruits can serve the purpose?
As for Skittles, might be fuel for Marshawn Lynch to go Beastmode. Or for aiding someone having a hypoglycemic episode. I limit my "sugar" intake, and limit high glycemic index foods.
What purpose? Fruits typically don't have that many calories (100-200), so they might not be the best way to raise caloric intake and prevent someone from being underweight, but they are a great way to get vitamins and satisfy a sweet tooth.
200 calories would most likely be 10% or more of maintenance calories for a smaller 80 year old female unless really unusually active.
Fine way to add calories vitamins and fiber.3 -
Not sure what you're asking... if you are asking if we think sugar is not bad and for references for amounts that are acceptable, then, here is a link: https://www.aplaceformom.com/blog/12-11-12-seniors-carb-sugar-intake/
If you're looking for non-quack / senior based articles:
https://www.aarp.org/health/healthy-living/info-2018/give-up-sugar-fd.html
https://www.aarp.org/health/healthy-living/info-2017/how-to-halve-your-sugar-and-eat-it-too.html?intcmp=AE-HEA-HL-EOA1
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I know someone that never exercises and eats a unhealthy diet and she is 102 years old. She lives alone and has a mind that can do math faster than a computer. I think genetics may play a greater role than sugar intake. I don't eat any sugar or sweetened drinks because they don't provide any nutritional benefit. I do eat fruit because it has nutritional benefit and is sweet. I see nothing wrong with limiting simple and artificial sweeteners.6
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TynaBaby17 wrote: »
That is not what your quoted article says - it says there MAY be some correlation between high consumption of soft drinks (sugar source) and obesity, but there is no directly established connection between the two. The real cause of obesity is over-consumption of CALORIES from any source, and obesity leads to heart disease and other problems.
As to the addictive nature of sugar - again, nope. They are trying to say that sugar is addictive because it lights up the dopamine receptors in the brain, the problem with trying to make that correlation is that ANY pleasurable activity causes the same response.
I agree with Aaron's take on the matter - is this really a battle that you want to take on with your 80 year old mom?
Yes obesity is caused by over consumption of calories of any kind, but obesity in America is not being caused by the over consumption of calories from vegetables or protein. But added sugar is becoming a large portion of average calorie consumption; soft drinks, white flour bread, pasta, fast food. Sugar is a simple carb, these carbs are converted directly to energy and the excess energy is then stored as fat. Because there is so much added sugar there is almost always a excess of energy and thus the excess fat. The added sugar also causes insulin spikes in our blood, and with a more and more constant spike of insulin due to the large amounts of sugar ingested by the average American, this damages the lining of our blood vessels which causes inflammation and circulatory/heart illnesses. I am not arguing added sugar is the ONLY cause of obesity, I am arguing it is a leading cause of the obesity epidemic in America.
The addictiveness of sugar is not just demonstrated by the dopamine response which IS found in pleasurable experiences, but more significantly in the opiod receptor response. By definition of addictive it leads to compulsory behavior despite knowing about its (likely unhealthy) consequences, like weigh gain, diabetes, hormone changes and fatigue because there is an initial pleasure response, and the opiod responses found in the rats are more specifically similar to the responses from opiod drugs.
To the bold: sugar/carbs are rarely if ever stored as fat in humans. I suggest you actually take some science classes instead of spewing crap you 'researched' on Google
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I know someone that never exercises and eats a unhealthy diet and she is 102 years old. She lives alone and has a mind that can do math faster than a computer. I think genetics may play a greater role than sugar intake. I don't eat any sugar or sweetened drinks because they don't provide any nutritional benefit. I do eat fruit because it has nutritional benefit and is sweet. I see nothing wrong with limiting simple and artificial sweeteners.
Good for them, but N=1 sample.
I know 50 people that ate an unhealthy diet, never exercised and died before 70. Plus they had poor quality of life for several years before death because of health reasons
Believe my experience is more real world typical.5 -
I'm sorry that your mom is getting sucked down a woo-hole that might be hurting her health. I like the idea of trying to compare this to previously debunked theories, but unfortunately, after a point, there's really nothing anyone can do to force another capable adult to change their lifestyle. My mom is 15 years younger than yours, but at this point I'd be surprised if she makes it that long. Much sympathy here, if not much help.10
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Hi all - sorry I wasn't clear. I don't want Mom to make ANY changes - I want her to stop worrying about sugar. She eats very healthily, but has been worrying about her (almost non-existent) sugar consumption.18
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kshama2001 wrote: »Hi all - sorry I wasn't clear. I don't want Mom to make ANY changes - I want her to stop worrying about sugar. She eats very healthily, but has been worrying about her (almost non-existent) sugar consumption.
Well, you certainly stepped in it, didn't ya?
I think if this is what she is worrying about, leave her to it! It's not a big issue, just something for her to think about.
And you know you can't change anyone else, right? Just let her believe Peeps are the devil. It's all the rage.8 -
WinoGelato wrote: »kshama2001 wrote: »Mom keeps seeing these types of articles in the Times:
https://www.nytimes.com/guides/smarterliving/how-to-stop-eating-sugar
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/17/magazine/mag-17Sugar-t.html
She also has a book on brain health with the same attitude. (I don't know the title off hand.)
I've started by asking her how many grams of added sugar she consumes per day. (I already know the answer is a lot less than the average American. For starters, she doesn't drink sweetened beverages.)
Now, I'd need more than "Lustig is a quack" or "Taubes is a quack." I'd need something reputable debunking their theories. (Not random blog posts.)
I've read here a lot that our bodies don't know the difference between sugar from fruit and sugar from added sugar - are there reputable sources for this?
BTW, she's not trying to lose weight and in fact struggles to stay above Underweight because she is very very active, especially for her age (80).
TIA
I get where you are coming from. I've seen similar tendencies in my 83 year old FIL where he is bouncing from dietary fad to dietary fad because he wants to be healthy, wants to stave off disease, etc - and in fact is falling for the woo and pseudoscience that preys on people who think that a book with just enough science to sound legit, that tries to convince them that they must cut out XYZ substance in order to be healthy, that tells them that Big Sugar, or Big Pharma, or Big whomever has been deluding them all these years - is something that they need to believe.
My FIL has gone from Wheat Belly to Taubes and now his latest plan (and this is what I think the biggest area of concern is) is to eat nothing but vegetables. He's completely ignoring the concept of balance, how important fat and protein are for everyone - in favor of something he read in a book that told him that Big Grain has poisoned all our minds and we just need to eat more vegetables. Which is of course, a completely UNHEALTHY diet, even if vegetables are HEALTHY on their own. We keep telling him that of course, eating nothing but sugary sweets is not a good idea, but he wasn't doing that. He's been diabetic for years and his best readings since his diagnosis happened to be when we spent a month in Italy, eating pastries in the morning, pasta at lunch, and protein, veggies, wine and gelato for dinner - but we WALKED everywhere. It's all about balance - and my fear with him, and maybe this is what you are fearing with your Mother, is that they lose the ability to reason that out and that while cutting out some added sugar doesn't sound so bad, as our parents age they tend to go for the simple solutions because their brains can't process some of the more complex reasoning and problem solving anymore.
I saw the same with my own mother, in her progressing dementia, where she couldn't process what was on a restaurant menu anymore so she literally just asked for a cheeseburger at every meal out, not because she wanted a cheeseburger but because she knew it was a safe bet that a restaurant would have one and she didn't want to let us know that she couldn't understand what she was reading on the menu.
Good luck, I will be thinking of you.
Thanks, you explained it better than I did.
Mom was briefly on the Wheat Belly bandwagon too, and lost a lot of weight (that she can't afford to lose) when she was trying to eat in such a way as to not exacerbate her silent reflux. I think she eventually took one or two recommendations from that, but when she follows all the advice of one plan, plus manages her IBS, plus eats according to her general food principles, she just doesn't get enough calories to support her activity level.7 -
TynaBaby17 wrote: »I don't understand? You want your mom to eat sugar or think that it isn't bad?
I'm afraid the base line messages of these blog posts aren't wrong. The blog posts definitely use quite a bit of fear mongering, but "debunking" the idea that added sugar is bad for you is going to be hard and probubly dis-reputable. Added sugar is the cause of the obesity epidemic in the US and one of the leading causes of heart disease (https://www.nature.com/articles/ijo2008204). Added sugar also shows evidence of being a significantly addictive substance (https://doi.org/10.1016/j.neubiorev.2007.04.019).
The reason the sugar in fruit is more tolerable is because fruit contains nutrients and vitamins that we also need. But yes, all sugar, fruit or refined is broken down by our bodies the same way because it is all a carb, it is just that sugar in fruit has more nutrients than refined. (https://www.acefitness.org/education-and-resources/lifestyle/blog/6263/natural-sugars-vs-processed-sugars-is-there-a-difference)
So in moderation we say sugar from fruit is ok because of the nutrients they provide us with, and we even can do better by eliminating some fruits where the nutritional value does NOT out weigh the sugar value, like apples, mangos and pineapple and dried fruits like raisins and apricots. These fruits don't provide much nutrition but have a lot of sugar in them.
Added sugar is terrible for you, that is why for diets you have to cut out so many of these additives because excess sugar is converted directly to fat in your system because your body doesn't know how to process it.
If your goal is for your mother to gain weight is should not be through sugar. It should be through healthy carbs like whole wheats and grains, proteins and healthy fats like fish and avacados! But it would probably benefit her to stay away from fear mongering blogs and articles and instead read journal publications and peer reviewed articles instead. Google Scholar has many articles that are reputable, with out the propaganda tactics.
So much woo and pseudoscience.
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Please don't turn this into a sugar argument, please!
OP didn't say she wants her mom to EAT ALL DA SUGARZ. She said she struggles to keep weight on and is now concerned that sugar is toxic.- Keeping weight on is very important for the elderly.
- Sugar is not toxic.
@kshama2001 I don't know of the sources you are looking for. Your best bet might be to parallel the current no-sugar craze with other now debunked crazes she would be familiar with, like eggs or fat, etc.
In the meantime, I would think steering her to natural sugars and making sure she has enough fat and protein will give her something positive to focus on and give her another way to get her calories in until the hysteria (hopefully) blows over.
I agree with others that it might not be a battle worth fighting right now, as she will no doubt continue to see articles about this for awhile which will stand against whatever better sources you provide. So it might be better to focus on how to keep it from being harmful to her right now. Good luck!
Thanks!
She does get plenty of fruits, veggies, grains, and legumes, so I will encourage more protein and fat.
You should have seen her picking all the fat out of the corned beef yesterday, lol. (Not just the big chunks of fat but the little fat in between the meat.) She's a little obsessive about trimming fat from chicken as well.6 -
Sugar is poison.47
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JMcGee2018 wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »vermilionflower wrote: »Fructose separated from the fruit is just like eating any other sugar, but that's completely different than eating fruit where the fructose is not separated. Straight sugar has zero nutrition, there's no healthy amount because it isn't nutritious.kshama2001 wrote: »Mom keeps seeing these types of articles in the Times:
https://www.nytimes.com/guides/smarterliving/how-to-stop-eating-sugar
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/17/magazine/mag-17Sugar-t.html
She also has a book on brain health with the same attitude. (I don't know the title off hand.)
I've started by asking her how many grams of added sugar she consumes per day. (I already know the answer is a lot less than the average American. For starters, she doesn't drink sweetened beverages.)
Now, I'd need more than "Lustig is a quack" or "Taubes is a quack." I'd need something reputable debunking their theories. (Not random blog posts.)
I've read here a lot that our bodies don't know the difference between sugar from fruit and sugar from added sugar - are there reputable sources for this?
BTW, she's not trying to lose weight and in fact struggles to stay above Underweight because she is very very active, especially for her age (80).
TIA
On fruit, fruit has vitamins/bioflavnoids/minerals and some fiber, than does refined sugar. Sugar are empty calories, devoid of healthy nutrients except for carbs.
You guys DO know that there's a minimum amount of calories your body needs, right? If you were only eating the nutrients your body needs, the essential fats and proteins, and carbs only from the most nutritious, green vegetables for their minerals and vitamins... you'd starve to death eventually because that's something like 800 calories.
But there's no reason to be getting those calories from simple sugars. Complex carbs, protein, and healthy fats are all better ways to meet those caloric needs than bags of skittles, although both options will do the job of keeping you alive.
Agree. Fruits are considered complex carbs. Do you agree that eating a few fruits can serve the purpose?
As for Skittles, might be fuel for Marshawn Lynch to go Beastmode. Or for aiding someone having a hypoglycemic episode. I limit my "sugar" intake, and limit high glycemic index foods.
Fruits are not complex carbs. And what is the reason for eating more protein and more fats after you've already met your needs? Just your subjective opinion that sugars are bad for you?5 -
kshama2001 wrote: »Please don't turn this into a sugar argument, please!
OP didn't say she wants her mom to EAT ALL DA SUGARZ. She said she struggles to keep weight on and is now concerned that sugar is toxic.- Keeping weight on is very important for the elderly.
- Sugar is not toxic.
@kshama2001 I don't know of the sources you are looking for. Your best bet might be to parallel the current no-sugar craze with other now debunked crazes she would be familiar with, like eggs or fat, etc.
In the meantime, I would think steering her to natural sugars and making sure she has enough fat and protein will give her something positive to focus on and give her another way to get her calories in until the hysteria (hopefully) blows over.
I agree with others that it might not be a battle worth fighting right now, as she will no doubt continue to see articles about this for awhile which will stand against whatever better sources you provide. So it might be better to focus on how to keep it from being harmful to her right now. Good luck!
Thanks!
She does get plenty of fruits, veggies, grains, and legumes, so I will encourage more protein and fat.
You should have seen her picking all the fat out of the corned beef yesterday, lol. (Not just the big chunks of fat but the little fat in between the meat.) She's a little obsessive about trimming fat from chicken as well.
Lol my mom is the same way, she had babies in the 1970s and then tried to lose the weight in the 80s, so she is deeply rooted in the fat is best avoided camp. Her problem is she doesn't eat enough fat and protein so she's always hungry but scared of gaining weight. Luckily I don't have to worry about her or my dad being underweight for now, but they're only in their 70s.2 -
Strongerxthanxyesterday wrote: »Sugar is poison.
You can tell by all those people dying after eating apples.
An apple a day keeps the doctor away. Because you will be dead, what's the doctor supposed to do?29 -
Fruits are absolutely complex carbs.17
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Strongerxthanxyesterday wrote: »Fruits are absolutely complex carbs.
You should look up the definition of what a complex carb is.5 -
stevencloser wrote: »Strongerxthanxyesterday wrote: »Fruits are absolutely complex carbs.
You should look up the definition of what a complex carb is.
You should put some pants on.
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