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Are Processed Foods "Bad"?
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lemurcat12 wrote: »happytree923 wrote: »Everyone can provide their own personal stories and preferences as much as they want. It does not change the fact that on average, high fat, salt, and sugar foods are highly rewarding and make you want to eat more of them. This, combined with the convienence of processed/junk/fast/whatever food, makes it easy to overeat. If you are trying to lose weight this is a good thing to be aware of.
Again, though, the topic here is "processed" food, not "junk food."
Processed food is VERY varied and need not be the kinds of foods you are describing as high fat, salt, and sugar food (whereas, again, plenty of homecooked foods could be).
Processed foods include things like an Amy's frozen meal, instant oats with NOTHING but oats added, dried pasta, canned tomatoes, canned tuna, quick cook rice and beans, the kinds of Indian foods pictured above, smoked salmon, kimchi, pickles, boneless skinless chicken breast, pretty low cal chicken sausages, a canned soup (low sodium), and so on.
That it is preserved (the original reason for it) or intended to make things more convenient does not say anything about the ingredients involved or whether it's high or low cal, nutritious or not, so on.Honestly I’m not sure why this is so controversial? What people usually mean when they say ‘processed food’ is junk food and I thought it was pretty commonly known that it’s way easier to gain weight on junk than chicken and broccoli.
No, I would disagree that what people usually mean by "processed food" is junk food. If someone asks if I eat processed food I think about what I happen to eat and the answer is yes, I do -- I eat tofu, tempeh, soy milk, smoked salmon, peanut powder, occasional protein powder, dried pasta, canned tomatoes, cottage cheese, greek yogurt, coffee and tea, lots of imported cheeses, and sure, occasional dark chocolate and ice cream. I don't consider the latter two more processed or different than the others, even though I wouldn't consider any of the others "junk food." That's my problem with the
Ok, we disagree on what qualifies as ‘processed food.’ I think you’re being a little pedantic, the term has a colloquial meaning beyond ‘a food that has had heat applied to it before sale’ and I don’t know anyone else who uses the super broad definition you are using.22 -
I think any discussion such as this is ridiculous and moot without taking context and dosage into consideration.
What kind of "processed foods" are we discussing? What does the overall diet look like in terms of nutrition? How much of the diet do these "processed foods" constitute? Are these "processed foods" being eaten at the expense of cutting out essential nutrients? Et cetera.
There's nothing wrong with eating an occasional hot pocket or fast food burger (or whatever "processed food" one is choosing to demonize). Having a diet which consists mostly or entirely of hot pockets or fast food burgers (or whatever "processed food" one is choosing to demonize) isn't such a great idea.13 -
I always thought processed foods was referring to anything that comes out of a box and is loaded with preservatives. Things like Rice-A-Roni, Mac n cheese, Velveeta, Hot Pockets, Hot dogs, Spaghetti-O's, etc. I don't think those foods are bad, but I do notice I feel better when I don't eat them as frequently. I notice less bloating, gas , and heartburn. So, when I try to eat "healthy" I try to limit how much of those foods I eat. I think some people take it to an extreme though and consider anything that comes in a box or a can as processed and ban it from their diet. Or if they can't pronounce it they ban it. There are many things that look scary and unpronounceable that are perfectly healthy. (Tocepherol, for example: Vitamin E) I think that's just silly. If you can eat it, it fits into your calories, and doesn't make you feel bad (bad as in unwell, not guilty) why not enjoy it?8
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happytree923 wrote: »Everyone can provide their own personal stories and preferences as much as they want. It does not change the fact that on average, high fat, salt, and sugar foods are highly rewarding and make you want to eat more of them. This, combined with the convienence of processed/junk/fast/whatever food, makes it easy to overeat. If you are trying to lose weight this is a good thing to be aware of.
If you think your home cooking tastes better (I am in this category too btw!), you may be under less stress, not missing meals, and have more time to cook than people with different preferences.
Honestly I’m not sure why this is so controversial? What people usually mean when they say ‘processed food’ is junk food and I thought it was pretty commonly known that it’s way easier to gain weight on junk than chicken and broccoli.
There are many foods that are processed that aren't "junk" food though...I posted my rice and quinoa and lentils...not junk food and totally processed to be ready to just heat in the microwave and have a decent shelf life. Anything canned is processed...beans, vegetables, tomatoes, tuna, etc, etc, etc...none of that is junk food. Bread for sandwiches and other things is a processed food. Jerky is a processed food. Dairy...milk, cheese, yogurt, cottage cheese, etc...all processed foods.
The list could go on and on. I don't really think people only mean junk food when they say processed food which is why I think it's a bit silly when people go on about eating clean and eliminating processed food.
Of course I would agree that losing weight is easier when you're not eating a bunch of twinkies...but there's a lot more processed food out there than twinkies.
The point of the thread is discussing whether or not processed foods are bad for you, so I think it's actually kind of important to illustrate that "processed" is a pretty massive umbrella. Like I said in an earlier post, not all processed foods are created equal...there are many that are high calorie and nutrient void as well as many with excellent nutritional profiles.
ETA: I do typically avoid highly processed foods...like stuff from a box like mac 'n cheese with the powder stuff, frozen microwave meals, fast food...and commercial baked goods, etc. I mostly avoid them because I'm admittedly a bit of a food snob and don't really care for those things, at least not on any kind of regular basis.5 -
Pretty much every food item we purchase in a grocery store is processed to some degree, as another poster mentioned, we process foods at home just be cooking them.
Still, that's probably not what the majority of people thing of when they think of the term 'processed food' ... you hear and read it all the time ... "shop the perimeter of the store where the whole foods are usually displayed and stay away from the inner aisles where all the processed food is" ... and what this is describing is food that is sold in packages, cans, bottles, jars, the freezer section ... they have been manufactured somewhere and are being sold as a ready-to-eat, or with minimal further preparation being required.
We could not live in todays society without using those products to some extent.
Are they unhealthy? Well, some of them contain ingredients that are possible health hazards, some contain ingredients that would be unnecessary if the same food was cooked from 'scratch' at home.
It's up to each of us to determine which food stuffs fit into our meal plans; considering all the factors involved, or at least those that are important to us.3 -
happytree923 wrote: »Everyone can provide their own personal stories and preferences as much as they want. It does not change the fact that on average, high fat, salt, and sugar foods are highly rewarding and make you want to eat more of them. This, combined with the convienence of processed/junk/fast/whatever food, makes it easy to overeat. If you are trying to lose weight this is a good thing to be aware of.
If you think your home cooking tastes better (I am in this category too btw!), you may be under less stress, not missing meals, and have more time to cook than people with different preferences.
Honestly I’m not sure why this is so controversial? What people usually mean when they say ‘processed food’ is junk food and I thought it was pretty commonly known that it’s way easier to gain weight on junk than chicken and broccoli.
See this is one thing I have an issue with. It's not easier to gain weight on junk food than chicken and broccoli (even though I asked about processed food, you jumped to the junk food sub group) it's exactly the same. Eat more calories of one you will gain weight. Eat exactly the same number of calories of the other you will also gain weight.13 -
Bad? Probably not. Dense in calories? Yup! Usually. Most processed foods are correlated with high salt, high fat, and/or high sugar but I wouldn't say "bad" is the correct term. They're calorically dense. Considering we're in a pretty rough spot in society right now with our obesity crisis and obesity being typically caused by over consumption of calories, as a general broad logical approach, yeah they're rather bad.
Moderation moderation moderation.
"The dose makes the poison" -Paracelsus7 -
It really depends what is meant by "processed". The term has become extremely vague. To some people, images of shelf-stable shrink wrapped Little Debbie snack cakes and Funyons come to mind. To me, any type of fermented food, including cheese, pickles, bread and other yeast-risen baked goods, any type of juice, dried fruits and meats, kimchi, yogurt, sausage, etc, is processed, and none of them qualify as definitively "unhealthy" to me, knowing nothing else about the quantity in which they're eaten.3
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happytree923 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »happytree923 wrote: »Everyone can provide their own personal stories and preferences as much as they want. It does not change the fact that on average, high fat, salt, and sugar foods are highly rewarding and make you want to eat more of them. This, combined with the convienence of processed/junk/fast/whatever food, makes it easy to overeat. If you are trying to lose weight this is a good thing to be aware of.
Again, though, the topic here is "processed" food, not "junk food."
Processed food is VERY varied and need not be the kinds of foods you are describing as high fat, salt, and sugar food (whereas, again, plenty of homecooked foods could be).
Processed foods include things like an Amy's frozen meal, instant oats with NOTHING but oats added, dried pasta, canned tomatoes, canned tuna, quick cook rice and beans, the kinds of Indian foods pictured above, smoked salmon, kimchi, pickles, boneless skinless chicken breast, pretty low cal chicken sausages, a canned soup (low sodium), and so on.
That it is preserved (the original reason for it) or intended to make things more convenient does not say anything about the ingredients involved or whether it's high or low cal, nutritious or not, so on.Honestly I’m not sure why this is so controversial? What people usually mean when they say ‘processed food’ is junk food and I thought it was pretty commonly known that it’s way easier to gain weight on junk than chicken and broccoli.
No, I would disagree that what people usually mean by "processed food" is junk food. If someone asks if I eat processed food I think about what I happen to eat and the answer is yes, I do -- I eat tofu, tempeh, soy milk, smoked salmon, peanut powder, occasional protein powder, dried pasta, canned tomatoes, cottage cheese, greek yogurt, coffee and tea, lots of imported cheeses, and sure, occasional dark chocolate and ice cream. I don't consider the latter two more processed or different than the others, even though I wouldn't consider any of the others "junk food." That's my problem with the
Ok, we disagree on what qualifies as ‘processed food.’ I think you’re being a little pedantic, the term has a colloquial meaning beyond ‘a food that has had heat applied to it before sale’ and I don’t know anyone else who uses the super broad definition you are using.
See, I think most people use the definition I do, and it's the correct definition. This current trendy (and incorrect) use of it to mean only junk food always confuses me, and it seems like a really bizarre way to use the term when we already have things like junk food, fast food, even convenience foods. Processed food is way broader and proceeds all of those.
This is why I wonder how people can insist they never eat processed food with protein powder in their diaries, or bread and cereal -- it always strikes me as disingenuous or at least coming from a very confused place.16 -
Crafty_camper123 wrote: »I think some people take it to an extreme though and consider anything that comes in a box or a can as processed and ban it from their diet. Or if they can't pronounce it they ban it. There are many things that look scary and unpronounceable that are perfectly healthy. (Tocepherol, for example: Vitamin E) I think that's just silly. If you can eat it, it fits into your calories, and doesn't make you feel bad (bad as in unwell, not guilty) why not enjoy it?
I agree, except I don't think considering those foods (the ones you think are extreme to ban) as "processed foods" is extreme. It's the actual, correct meaning of "processed foods." That's precisely why it's wrong to claim that processed foods are all low nutrient or high cal or full of preservatives (although salt itself is a preservative and why canned foods tend to be high sodium) or the like.5 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »ETA: I do typically avoid highly processed foods...like stuff from a box like mac 'n cheese with the powder stuff, frozen microwave meals, fast food...and commercial baked goods, etc. I mostly avoid them because I'm admittedly a bit of a food snob and don't really care for those things, at least not on any kind of regular basis.
This is true for me too, and also was when I was gaining weight and when I was fat, which is why I think the slam on processed foods is more about snobbery (or buying into current buzzwords) than reality. One doesn't have to enjoy Twinkies or McD's to become overweight or even obese.8 -
Hamburgers are junk food?10
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singingflutelady wrote: »Hamburgers are junk food?
This always confuses me as well...I think a lot of people must immediately think of fast food when they think of a burger. I always think of hanging out on my patio with a cold beer and throwing patties of ground beef on the grill while yelling at my two boys to stop their nonsense and to figure it out before I figure it out for them...12 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »ETA: I do typically avoid highly processed foods...like stuff from a box like mac 'n cheese with the powder stuff, frozen microwave meals, fast food...and commercial baked goods, etc. I mostly avoid them because I'm admittedly a bit of a food snob and don't really care for those things, at least not on any kind of regular basis.
This is true for me too, and also was when I was gaining weight and when I was fat, which is why I think the slam on processed foods is more about snobbery (or buying into current buzzwords) than reality. One doesn't have to enjoy Twinkies or McD's to become overweight or even obese.
Maybe it's a part of the hipster thing, the culinary equivalent of them sitting around twirling their waxed mustaches and sipping their craft beers while they sneer at ordinary "mainstream" beers.9 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »Crafty_camper123 wrote: »I think some people take it to an extreme though and consider anything that comes in a box or a can as processed and ban it from their diet. Or if they can't pronounce it they ban it. There are many things that look scary and unpronounceable that are perfectly healthy. (Tocepherol, for example: Vitamin E) I think that's just silly. If you can eat it, it fits into your calories, and doesn't make you feel bad (bad as in unwell, not guilty) why not enjoy it?
I agree, except I don't think considering those foods (the ones you think are extreme to ban) as "processed foods" is extreme. It's the actual, correct meaning of "processed foods." That's precisely why it's wrong to claim that processed foods are all low nutrient or high cal or full of preservatives (although salt itself is a preservative and why canned foods tend to be high sodium) or the like.
I don't think the definition of processed foods is extreme. It's the thought of someone truly going through with not having anything processed in the sense that human hands have touched it that is extreme. Can you imagine anyone in this day and age not at least having a gallon of milk, frozen veggies, or olive oil in their home because they read somewhere that processed foods are bad for them? I do not know anyone specifically that has actually tried to do this, but I would be willing to bet that there is some one out there that has attempted to live this way. I do know people who I would be surprised to find a box of pasta, or a can of corn in their home though.
Hopefully I am making sense as I am not yet sufficiently caffeinated for the day. I suppose the point I am trying to make is that when most people say "Yep, I'm cutting out processed food from my diet! It's time for me to eat clean and healthy." they really mean they are cutting out the unhealthy highly refined, high calorie, low nutrient food from their diets. Because, to truly cut out anything and everything that is processed would be absurd.
Anyways just for kittens and giggles I typed in "processed food" into my search engine and got this:
https://nhs.uk/livewell/goodfood/pages/what-are-processed-foods.aspx
Basically says to avoid high fat, high sugar, and/or high salt foods and to eat everything in moderation.3 -
Crafty_camper123 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Crafty_camper123 wrote: »I think some people take it to an extreme though and consider anything that comes in a box or a can as processed and ban it from their diet. Or if they can't pronounce it they ban it. There are many things that look scary and unpronounceable that are perfectly healthy. (Tocepherol, for example: Vitamin E) I think that's just silly. If you can eat it, it fits into your calories, and doesn't make you feel bad (bad as in unwell, not guilty) why not enjoy it?
I agree, except I don't think considering those foods (the ones you think are extreme to ban) as "processed foods" is extreme. It's the actual, correct meaning of "processed foods." That's precisely why it's wrong to claim that processed foods are all low nutrient or high cal or full of preservatives (although salt itself is a preservative and why canned foods tend to be high sodium) or the like.
I don't think the definition of processed foods is extreme. It's the thought of someone truly going through with not having anything processed in the sense that human hands have touched it that is extreme. Can you imagine anyone in this day and age not at least having a gallon of milk, frozen veggies, or olive oil in their home because they read somewhere that processed foods are bad for them? I do not know anyone specifically that has actually tried to do this, but I would be willing to bet that there is some one out there that has attempted to live this way. I do know people who I would be surprised to find a box of pasta, or a can of corn in their home though.
Yeah, we totally agree on this, and I think you are making sense.
One reason I'm adamant in arguing that processed foods are not inherently bad and can actually make weight loss easier, not harder, is that I tend to be an all or nothing person and went through a stage where I was starting to become that extreme person who did not eat processed foods (although of course I still did). I didn't know about the "clean" thing and called it eating only "natural" (which, granted, is equally silly), and I was really adverse to eating anything from a package, wouldn't used canned tomatoes (or anything canned), wouldn't eat pasta not made by myself (and liked the idea of getting a home grinder, although I never did that). But I got kind of neurotic. I also considered trying out a locavore thing as an extension of this, but luckily I realized that (a) that would mean no coffee, and (b) I live in Chicago, am I insane? what am I going to eat in February. Of course I toyed with planning ahead and canning and so on, but came to reason, even though it did seem fun as a challenge (and I might try it for a month in the summer or something, but NOT because it's healthier, that's not true).Hopefully I am making sense as I am not yet sufficiently caffeinated for the day. I suppose the point I am trying to make is that when most people say "Yep, I'm cutting out processed food from my diet! It's time for me to eat clean and healthy." they really mean they are cutting out the unhealthy highly refined, high calorie, low nutrient food from their diets. Because, to truly cut out anything and everything that is processed would be absurd.
Well, this is what frustrates me when people say that, since it's obviously not true. I don't eat much that those people probably consider unhealthy (other than for occasional treats or what not), but OF COURSE I eat processed foods and I see no reason why cutting out those foods -- plain greek yogurt, dried pasta, some condiments, olive oil and vinegars, smoked salmon, so on -- would be better for my health. To the contrary, I found loosening up on my weird obsession with never eating anything "processed" (which I didn't achieve even then) made everything easier, and so actually made it more sustainable to eat a healthy, calorie-appropriate diet. If I had to work super late and am exhausted, I can do one of those Indian options cwolfman mentioned or an Amy's meal or, sure, get a sandwich from Potbelly's when still at work (perfectly calorie-appropriate turkey on wheat) and not feel guilty or like I somehow "cheated" or whatever, and realize instead that what I ate is reasonably healthy and totally fine.
It's like the anti processed food thing involves this magical thinking that if you have some processed food it means you will automatically be unable to control your diet or be unhealthy or tainted (unclean!) or whatever that drives me crazy.Basically says to avoid high fat, high sugar, and/or high salt foods and to eat everything in moderation.
Heh! That's great.
I really think for the most part people who go on about "processed foods" make no real effort to avoid all processed foods but instead just try not to base their diet around low nutrient high cal ultra processed items, which maybe they were doing before, but certainly not everyone did, and which means that their super special "clean" diet ends up just being what everyone else basically recommends.
It just seems dishonest to me for someone to claim he or she is avoiding "processed" foods when in reality that person eats lots of processed foods, but clearly not everyone agrees.4 -
I agree processed food can be good food (like a fresh ground beef patty) and that most all junk food is processed food.10
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As long as it's clear a cookie made at home or even ice cream made at home from cream, vanilla and vanilla pods, and sugar (and maybe eggs) = processed (since anything you add sugar to = processed), and that by that definition homemade bread is also processed (since flour is normally not ground at home), then, sure, junk food is usually processed.
Has nothing to do with why it's "junk food," of course.2 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »I agree processed food can be good food (like a fresh ground beef patty) and that most all junk food is processed food.
"Junk food" is another term no one seems to be able to agree on, so I'm not sure I know what you're getting at.5 -
A very interesting and insightful research review on the topic: https://bodyrecomposition.com/research-review/hormonal-responses-fast-food-meal.html/7
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