Keto Diet - Should I try it?
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"nvmomketo wrote:I am guessing that there are some keto top athletes out there, but I have no idea who they could be since I don't watch sports.
For someone guessing and with no interest in sport you sure do promote your ideas about sport with remarkable frequency and enthusiasm!
I never said that I have no interest in sports (well in some sports I have little interest but that's normal).
I said that "I don't watch sports". I participate.
Not sure from top of my head, but there are athletes who have competed while on ketogenic state, and I am talking ultra marathon runners as well, not just a 1 hour cross-fit session, which can be hard as hell on its won. One major issue with competing on ketogenic state is dehydration, as carbs retain water, and if there no carbs to retain water, dehydration is a possibility. Also, Ben Greenfield has tested this and Dr.Pompa him self tried it in real life scenario while going on a 3 hour bike ride (not casual) and did great, while the others were consuming simple sugars. So, there are fat adopted athletes who do not need coke or various gels to power through an event. However, one must understand, not all of us are physiologically gifted as these athletes, and do not exercise 4, 5 hours a day 5 days per week for 10 years. So, I am not saying I can run a marathon on keto diet, but I am sure I could train my body to do so, without losing time or bonking mid race.GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »It should be noted that all the endurance athletes who are supposedly keto carb up for and during events.
Quite a few keto athletes will consume their carbs while exercising. Many think that eating carbs while exercising is not a ketogenic diet, but those athletes are often ketogenic at all times because they have burned off their carbs. Eating carbs does not mean one is not ketogenic. KWIM? All keto'ers eat carbs. Some choose to eat them around exercise so it is burned off more quickly, but they are still ketogenic athletes.
Are you saying top endurance athletes compete keto? That is what you seem to be implying. If so, please post the proof sources for your assertions.
I'm saying that someone who is ketogenic may eat carbs while exercising and still be ketogenic. I can't see why they wouldn't be just because they timed their carbs
Or they may not be. You really have no way of knowing. You are just speculation in a way that suits your bias.
Well no. As I had written earlier, my thoughts are based upon what other low carbers write about their experiences. They are my observations.
I doubt you spend much time reading low carb experiences or books. Being on the main forum here, it is often all about CICO without restricting any one thing too much. That is going to be biased towards people's experiences which are not low carb, or for whom low carb did not work out well for them. I could say that you are also speculating to suit your own bias - you don't do low carb because you view it as inferior to your needs or not of your preference.
I often read the experiences of people who stuck with low carb due to their successes. Those are the people I am referring too. Myself included, although due to injuries I am not able to be much of an athlete any more.
And how are these thoughts and observations verified. This is a discussion we've had in the past. If it is a bunch of n=1 based on self reporting, it is not reliable. You choose to make decisions based on that kind of thing. I do not.
And just for clarity, I am biased in favor of whatever helps someone achieve their goals most sustainable and effective manner. For some folks that is keto. For others it's not. There are lots of factors, including preference and compliance that go into each individuals decision. However, the science is clear that keto is suboptimal for exercise of any degree of higher intensity and has no metabolic advantage for fat loss. Keto appears to have some advantage for hunger signalling and control for those who struggle with that.
Someone may choose to do keto anyway for their own reasons but that doesn't change the science. And it doesn't mean a keto diet person eats carbs, exercises and stays in ketosis just because they say they do.
So, my bias is not anti keto. It's anti single solution and the promulgation of less than factual info to support contentions. You've been asked multiple times to post any significant study data that supports your position on keto and exercise and all you give is feels and someone said so. This despite the fact that there are over 2200 studies on ketogenic diet on PubMed. For me, your subjective assertions hold not weight. It reminds me of the old saying, when the only tool you have is a hammer, everything looks like a naiil.
In all fairness, i think the current limited evidence suggest that low carb is suboptimal for anaerobic/high intensity sports. But there still needs to be more research. Not saying i would ever go low carb because i have tried and it was brutal.
Yes, you are right of course if based on the Aragon/ Schoenfeld meta-analysis. Interestingly, I don't have workout issues when low carb, I haven't done keto except for a brief stretch some years ago. But I do have more recovery issues and fatigue afterwards when low carb. I am not a high carb eater in general though. Average day is generally between 100g and 150g.
Cool. And i can definitely understand the recovery aspect. I didn't realize you were largely still low carb.
I did not realize that he is low carb either. Huh.0 -
Yup. Not for any particular reason other than that just the way it come out when I eat the way I prefer. I don't really have issues with cravings and hunger. So, based on recent research, I'm guessing the lower carb helps with those issues."nvmomketo wrote:I am guessing that there are some keto top athletes out there, but I have no idea who they could be since I don't watch sports.
For someone guessing and with no interest in sport you sure do promote your ideas about sport with remarkable frequency and enthusiasm!
I never said that I have no interest in sports (well in some sports I have little interest but that's normal).
I said that "I don't watch sports". I participate.
Not sure from top of my head, but there are athletes who have competed while on ketogenic state, and I am talking ultra marathon runners as well, not just a 1 hour cross-fit session, which can be hard as hell on its won. One major issue with competing on ketogenic state is dehydration, as carbs retain water, and if there no carbs to retain water, dehydration is a possibility. Also, Ben Greenfield has tested this and Dr.Pompa him self tried it in real life scenario while going on a 3 hour bike ride (not casual) and did great, while the others were consuming simple sugars. So, there are fat adopted athletes who do not need coke or various gels to power through an event. However, one must understand, not all of us are physiologically gifted as these athletes, and do not exercise 4, 5 hours a day 5 days per week for 10 years. So, I am not saying I can run a marathon on keto diet, but I am sure I could train my body to do so, without losing time or bonking mid race.GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »It should be noted that all the endurance athletes who are supposedly keto carb up for and during events.
Quite a few keto athletes will consume their carbs while exercising. Many think that eating carbs while exercising is not a ketogenic diet, but those athletes are often ketogenic at all times because they have burned off their carbs. Eating carbs does not mean one is not ketogenic. KWIM? All keto'ers eat carbs. Some choose to eat them around exercise so it is burned off more quickly, but they are still ketogenic athletes.
Are you saying top endurance athletes compete keto? That is what you seem to be implying. If so, please post the proof sources for your assertions.
I'm saying that someone who is ketogenic may eat carbs while exercising and still be ketogenic. I can't see why they wouldn't be just because they timed their carbs
Or they may not be. You really have no way of knowing. You are just speculation in a way that suits your bias.
Well no. As I had written earlier, my thoughts are based upon what other low carbers write about their experiences. They are my observations.
I doubt you spend much time reading low carb experiences or books. Being on the main forum here, it is often all about CICO without restricting any one thing too much. That is going to be biased towards people's experiences which are not low carb, or for whom low carb did not work out well for them. I could say that you are also speculating to suit your own bias - you don't do low carb because you view it as inferior to your needs or not of your preference.
I often read the experiences of people who stuck with low carb due to their successes. Those are the people I am referring too. Myself included, although due to injuries I am not able to be much of an athlete any more.
And how are these thoughts and observations verified. This is a discussion we've had in the past. If it is a bunch of n=1 based on self reporting, it is not reliable. You choose to make decisions based on that kind of thing. I do not.
And just for clarity, I am biased in favor of whatever helps someone achieve their goals most sustainable and effective manner. For some folks that is keto. For others it's not. There are lots of factors, including preference and compliance that go into each individuals decision. However, the science is clear that keto is suboptimal for exercise of any degree of higher intensity and has no metabolic advantage for fat loss. Keto appears to have some advantage for hunger signalling and control for those who struggle with that.
Someone may choose to do keto anyway for their own reasons but that doesn't change the science. And it doesn't mean a keto diet person eats carbs, exercises and stays in ketosis just because they say they do.
So, my bias is not anti keto. It's anti single solution and the promulgation of less than factual info to support contentions. You've been asked multiple times to post any significant study data that supports your position on keto and exercise and all you give is feels and someone said so. This despite the fact that there are over 2200 studies on ketogenic diet on PubMed. For me, your subjective assertions hold not weight. It reminds me of the old saying, when the only tool you have is a hammer, everything looks like a naiil.
In all fairness, i think the current limited evidence suggest that low carb is suboptimal for anaerobic/high intensity sports. But there still needs to be more research. Not saying i would ever go low carb because i have tried and it was brutal.
Yes, you are right of course if based on the Aragon/ Schoenfeld meta-analysis. Interestingly, I don't have workout issues when low carb, I haven't done keto except for a brief stretch some years ago. But I do have more recovery issues and fatigue afterwards when low carb. I am not a high carb eater in general though. Average day is generally between 100g and 150g.
Cool. And i can definitely understand the recovery aspect. I didn't realize you were largely still low carb.
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I understand that a lot of the initial weight loss is simply water weight. I dont think it is healthy to cut out fruit the way keto diets do. There are so many beneficial vitamins in fruit that make it worth eating to me. If you are a fat and meat lover and can give up carbs long term then it might work for you but if go back to carbs the weight will just come back.
That's only true if you start eating too much.
But I completely agree that it is best to start as you mean to go on on switching to maintenance could be tougher.0 -
I say do what works for you! If the Keto diet is something you can stick with you are comfortable , then go for it. I am needing to lose 24 pounds and as much as I would love to take it off in a month, I know that is not realistic or healthy. I am watching my macro's too such as the gentleman pointed out. I am 25% carbs, 45% protein and 30% fat. I am actually loving it! I am on a 1400 cal diet and am losing roughly 1.5-2.0 pounds a week. I am not starving myself, but I am definitely learning how to eat healthier. Once I lost the weight, I will stick to this lifestyle but will allow myself a Day off to enjoy a meal out or something special. Best of luck!0
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Which sports are these that you are participating in?"nvmomketo wrote:I am guessing that there are some keto top athletes out there, but I have no idea who they could be since I don't watch sports.
For someone guessing and with no interest in sport you sure do promote your ideas about sport with remarkable frequency and enthusiasm!
I never said that I have no interest in sports (well in some sports I have little interest but that's normal).
I said that "I don't watch sports". I participate.
(Having a private profile means I can't see your exercise diary.)
I pretty sure you said previously you had to give up sports due to arthritis so that's a happy turnaround in health.1 -
I did Keto for two months- and the only reason I stopped was because I broke my ankle and it wasn't something I could stick too from the couch. I had lost a good amount of weight and was totally on board with the whole process. but I was starting to get sick of the food I was eating. It was so heavy. My body cringed at the sight of bacon(GASP), cheese, sausage, chicken, nuts, eggs. I started getting migraines, and overall I wasn't feeling my best. My salt, magnesium and potassium levels were where they were supposed to be and I was doing everything by the book, but my body hated it. Breaking my ankle gave me the excuse to stop and helped me to see how bad I had been feeling. I know this is not the same result for others, but it was my experience. Truthfully, I don't think we were designed to eat THAT much meat. I know others will disagree with me, but I had to listen to my body. When I broke my ankle and started eating normal again, my body sighed and was totally happy again. It's a pretty destructive diet too. If you think about the increase in animals you are killing, it's depressing. Keto actually turned me vegetarian.
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KrazyKrissyy wrote: »For anyone who says Keto is not sustainable. Well, that's your problem. Yes, I agree that keto can be difficult. But you need to ask yourself if the pros will outweigh the cons. If not, just stick to your own way of eating.
I have epilepsy and ever since keto, my seizures have reduced dramatically. I don't care how difficult keto could get. It's not worth the risk to go back to try previous eating habits (which some were rather nutrient dense by the way, such as my former high carb vegan diet). I've almost died from grandmals in the past (and that was even on medication).
Having a medical condition that necessitates a dietary intervention is one thing.
I have celiac disease, so I understand adopting dietary measures for your health.
Undertaking dietary restriction just because it's a fad is another.
I low carbed for ten years because I thought it was what I needed to do to be thin, but that wasn't motivation enough to keep me eating that way. I don't need motivation to keep eating gluten free, I HAVE to keep eating that way, just like you HAVE to keep eating keto to control your seizures.
Most people eating keto around here don't HAVE to keep eating that way, and when you don't HAVE to be restrictive, motivation wanes over time.4 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »KrazyKrissyy wrote: »For anyone who says Keto is not sustainable. Well, that's your problem. Yes, I agree that keto can be difficult. But you need to ask yourself if the pros will outweigh the cons. If not, just stick to your own way of eating.
I have epilepsy and ever since keto, my seizures have reduced dramatically. I don't care how difficult keto could get. It's not worth the risk to go back to try previous eating habits (which some were rather nutrient dense by the way, such as my former high carb vegan diet). I've almost died from grandmals in the past (and that was even on medication).
Having a medical condition that necessitates a dietary intervention is one thing.
I have celiac disease, so I understand adopting dietary measures for your health.
Undertaking dietary restriction just because it's a fad is another.
I low carbed for ten years because I thought it was what I needed to do to be thin, but that wasn't motivation enough to keep me eating that way. I don't need motivation to keep eating gluten free, I HAVE to keep eating that way, just like you HAVE to keep eating keto to control your seizures.
Most people eating keto around here don't HAVE to keep eating that way, and when you don't HAVE to be restrictive, motivation wanes over time.
My brother is on the AIP diet because it's the best thing he has found to moderate his IBS. He's loving it and it's great to see him returning to his previous level of health and vitality. Despite his happiness and relief, he's the first to admit that if he didn't have his IBS issues, he'd be eating like he did before. It's much easier to adhere to a strict diet that helps manage a chronic condition when you know how terrible you would feel if you didn't.2 -
Which sports are these that you are participating in?"nvmomketo wrote:I am guessing that there are some keto top athletes out there, but I have no idea who they could be since I don't watch sports.
For someone guessing and with no interest in sport you sure do promote your ideas about sport with remarkable frequency and enthusiasm!
I never said that I have no interest in sports (well in some sports I have little interest but that's normal).
I said that "I don't watch sports". I participate.
(Having a private profile means I can't see your exercise diary.)
I pretty sure you said previously you had to give up sports due to arthritis so that's a happy turnaround in health.
To put it more clearly, I participated in many sports and still do to a lesser degree depending on how much I want to pay for it over the next few days or weeks.
Now, I mainly walk, do lifting when my arthralgias in my shoulders and hands allow it, and play basketball with the teen boys team I coach (and to a shorter and lesser degree, soccer). There is no happy turn around. I was playing some basketball on Tuesday, I turned wrong and my worse osteoarthritic hip gave out so now I can feel my hip pain down my thigh when motionless and on Advil... It's the main reason that I have spent too much time on here over the last 36 hours.
In the past, I played basketball, volleyball, soccer, cross country, track&field and rowed on my university's team. In my spare time I ran a few races a year and hiked the Rockies in the summer. I last played on a team in about 2014. Now I just do some P90X and other BeachBody videos, but not as much as I'd like. There are two hip replacements and then knee replacements in my next few years. Thanks for asking.
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Thanks for the clarification.
Which sports are these that you are participating in?"nvmomketo wrote:I am guessing that there are some keto top athletes out there, but I have no idea who they could be since I don't watch sports.
For someone guessing and with no interest in sport you sure do promote your ideas about sport with remarkable frequency and enthusiasm!
I never said that I have no interest in sports (well in some sports I have little interest but that's normal).
I said that "I don't watch sports". I participate.
(Having a private profile means I can't see your exercise diary.)
I pretty sure you said previously you had to give up sports due to arthritis so that's a happy turnaround in health.
To put it more clearly, I participated in many sports and still do to a lesser degree depending on how much I want to pay for it over the next few days or weeks.
Now, I mainly walk, do lifting when my arthralgias in my shoulders and hands allow it, and play basketball with the teen boys team I coach (and to a shorter and lesser degree, soccer). There is no happy turn around. I was playing some basketball on Tuesday, I turned wrong and my worse osteoarthritic hip gave out so now I can feel my hip pain down my thigh when motionless and on Advil... It's the main reason that I have spent too much time on here over the last 36 hours.
In the past, I played basketball, volleyball, soccer, cross country, track&field and rowed on my university's team. In my spare time I ran a few races a year and hiked the Rockies in the summer. I last played on a team in about 2014. Now I just do some P90X and other BeachBody videos, but not as much as I'd like. There are two hip replacements and then knee replacements in my next few years. Thanks for asking.
I'm feeling quite fortunate I've only got a single TKR and spinal fusion as possibles on my horizon.....
Wish you well in managing your pain - I do have empathy for your situation as it's familiar to me too, it's not a lot of fun having to balance pain versus quality of life.
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I understand that a lot of the initial weight loss is simply water weight. I dont think it is healthy to cut out fruit the way keto diets do. There are so many beneficial vitamins in fruit that make it worth eating to me. If you are a fat and meat lover and can give up carbs long term then it might work for you but if go back to carbs the weight will just come back.
I do keto and my favorite breakfast is an avocado and half a box of raspberries. You don't have to cut out fruit; you just have to look for ways to fit it in. I'm eating some blueberries right now, along with a soup that's at least 70% veggies by volume, even though the 30% makes up the vast majority of its calories. I've also had a couple of ounces each of pineapple and strawberries today. I eat leafy greens by the fistful. Do you really think I'm missing out on vitamins?
There are plenty of different ways to get your body into ketosis. You can eat nothing but steak and eggs all day; sure. But if, like me, you would typically devote a lot of calories to grains, starches, and sugar, you'd have plenty of calories to redistribute on a keto diet. Many of them will certainly go to fats, and some to protein; that still leaves quite a bit of room for low-calorie, high-fiber, vitamin-rich fruits and vegetables.3 -
SuperOrganism2 wrote: »I did not like super low carb, personally. I think you might enjoy a diet with more flexibility a whole lot more and find it easier to stick with long term. Some of my friends love KETO, though...and totally swear by it.
You can lose your weight without it, though. It isn't something you particularly need.
The sports stuff is pretty interesting. I don't know any football players who did KETO...Judo and bjj people and boxers and track people. They all eat tons of carbs. The football guys at UNC were ridiculous...they would eat like piles of biscuits and huge plates of eggs and all kinds of nonsense...crazy. Those are big boys, though. Kind of an extreme example.
Maybe if they had done KETO they would play better UNC always blows at football
I know hockey players in my city eat a *kitten* ton of pasta.0
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