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Keto Diet - Should I try it?
Replies
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kendramnolan wrote: »
As I said, I only know what I’ve read here and the research I’ve done online. I’ve read articles that are both pro and con on the issue and both state that those on a keto diet have experienced a higher increase in energy and sport performance as well as a clearer mind when compared to other diets. Again, this is all based on what I’ve read, not personal experience.
It sounds to good to be true, huh. Yep, that is what they want you to believe.4 -
kendramnolan wrote: »
As I said, I only know what I’ve read here and the research I’ve done online. I’ve read articles that are both pro and con on the issue and both state that those on a keto diet have experienced a higher increase in energy and sport performance as well as a clearer mind when compared to other diets. Again, this is all based on what I’ve read, not personal experience.
Honestly, none of that is true. Not all experience increased energy. Sports performance is largely worse based on the research and a clearer mind seems to be very subjective. Some say they experience it. Some don't.
I would recommend studies and meta analyses instead of articles. Those writing article typically have some kind of bias and are trying to sell something. Studies aren't perfect either but are at least a better jump off point. Meta analyses are the synthesis of multiple studies and the most credible sources.
Keto can be effective if that is your preferred way to eat and it is sustainable for you. But there is no research in over 2000 studies that indicate it has any metabolic advantage for fat loss. It performs the same as any other diet that restricts calories, as others have said.4 -
I liked being on keto but gained 10 pounds on it. I was in ketosis for three months, according to blood tests. Measure your food carefully.
My doctor made me get off of keto for health reasons... it wasn’t for me, but it works for some people. A year later and I’m still in keto recovery mode, but my boyfriend stayed on it and enjoys it. It’s not for everybody so I would just suggest to take it slow and listen to your body and understand that drastic diets can mess with your health and have long term effects. So measure carefully and pay attention to how your body responds. That’d be my advice.
Part of why this is a good post is that it illustrates that ketosis in and of itself doesn't guarantee weight loss. You still have to have a calorie deficit.4 -
kendramnolan wrote: »
As I said, I only know what I’ve read here and the research I’ve done online. I’ve read articles that are both pro and con on the issue and both state that those on a keto diet have experienced a higher increase in energy and sport performance as well as a clearer mind when compared to other diets. Again, this is all based on what I’ve read, not personal experience.
Performance wise, keto is not well rated or else all elite athlete would be on keto if it was proven that it was superior when it comes to performance. I mean, let's face it, you're not going to be pushing harder at the gym for example when you lack water and glycogen than if you did have both. Carbs may not be essential for survival, but they help you thrive when it comes to physical activities.7 -
I recommend no based on these things I learned in my human biology class and from my dietician: the brain uses carbs as it's main source of energy, initial weightloss is caused from loss of water weight in your muscles, having too much fat compared to protein and carbs is what causes diabetes if done continuously over time, long term keto diets put you at a risk of developing acidic blood which can kill you.
Keto only works because of a calorie deficit. I would do this diet as a last resort.14 -
I recommend no based on these things I learned in my human biology class and from my dietician: the brain uses carbs as it's main source of energy, initial weightloss is caused from loss of water weight in your muscles, having too much fat compared to protein and carbs is what causes diabetes if done continuously over time, long term keto diets put you at a risk of developing acidic blood which can kill you.
Keto only works because of a calorie deficit. I would do this diet as a last resort.
Your brain uses carbs as its main fuel if that is the main fuel you eat. If you eat a lot of fats, your brain switches to using ketones as it preferred fuel.
eating more fat than carbs and protein does not cause diabetes. Fat is the only macro that does not cause an insulin response. Forward thinking diabetes doctors, like Dr Richard Bernstein, who invented home testing, prescribe low carb and ketogenic diets to reverse diabetes (T2). A ketogenic diet will not cause T2D. That is an old myth that came about because they knew T2D was associated with CVD, and they thought (wrongly) for most people that eating fatty foods led to clogged arteries which led to CVD and T2D. It has never been proven to be true.
But ketogenic diets do only work, like every other diet, because of a calorie deficit. I agree with you completely there.9 -
Your brain uses carbs as its main fuel if that is the main fuel you eat. If you eat a lot of fats, your brain switches to using ketones as it preferred fuel.
eating more fat than carbs and protein does not cause diabetes. Fat is the only macro that does not cause an insulin response. Forward thinking diabetes doctors, like Dr Richard Bernstein, who invented home testing, prescribe low carb and ketogenic diets to reverse diabetes (T2). A ketogenic diet will not cause T2D. That is an old myth that came about because they knew T2D was associated with CVD, and they thought (wrongly) for most people that eating fatty foods led to clogged arteries which led to CVD and T2D. It has never been proven to be true.
But ketogenic diets do only work, like every other diet, because of a calorie deficit. I agree with you completely there.
The brain only runs on glucose. It uses the protein via gluconogenesis. Yes, fat does have an insulin response, just not a large one. Still can get stored easily via ASP I believe.5 -
I don't think your brain will fuel on ketones (and then only partly) unless you are literally starving for a prolonged period.
When you're eating keto, you're taking in protein, and gluconeogenesis is happening.
Even if you're starving, your body is going to break down your own muscles and some gluconeogenesis is going to happen.3 -
kendramnolan wrote: »
Would you mind telling my why? I'm genuinely looking for information and would like to hear the reasons from both sides. Thanks!
First off keto isn't fast weight loss. Sure low carb gives you an extra boost in water weight loss the first week or two (google low carb flu). This is WATER weight loss, glycogen stores to be exact.
Second ANY (real) fast weight loss method is not going to be as healthy moderate paced weight loss.
All weight loss comes from calorie deficit. Keto has you eliminating one macro almost completely.....that's going to result in calorie restriction, the same as counting calories. Large deficits (fast weight loss) make it harder for your body to support existing lean muscle mass. Fast weight loss doesn't help you reduce body fat % by as much as you could have.2 -
Read this thread because I'm going to try keto.reasons being non gmo, less preseratives, more natural diet. There are so many chemicals used on our gmo (gmo already horrible) crops "round up ready crops" causing cancer ,allergies, all kinds of diseases. People have problems with stuff like glyphasate poisoning and think it's a gluten allergy.. the list goes on and on.now add in all the preservatives..I know I can lose on a norm diet.I lost 40 lbs and kept off for 3 yrs and then messed up and gained back. But I just want to eat more natural, and our grains and most crops not organic are "not natural any more." And what's preserving our foods blows my mind. Just going to watch potassium and magnesium close ,and convert slow .keto even recomends away fr toxins added in milk and alot off other stuff. And setting body up to burn fat seems a good move. Obviously need some carbs esp when working out harder- be smart and way it out i think. We shouldn't have to change our diets so drastically but man has played god trying to make more- quicker , and has ruined natural carbs in many ways sadly!32
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psychod787 wrote: »
The brain only runs on glucose. It uses the protein via gluconogenesis. Yes, fat does have an insulin response, just not a large one. Still can get stored easily via ASP I believe.
That is a common misconception. The brains runs very well on ketones, and will tend to prefer whatever fuel is most in abundance.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2874681/
The brain still uses a small amount of glucose, but after eating ketogenic for weeks or a few months, it's glucose needs will be reduced to around 200 kcal. That glucose can come from protein, but it is thought the that fatty acid's glycerol backbone may also provide the glucose made by the liver - that would help explain why a ketogenic diet does not need or use more protein than a higher carb diet,
This is a pretty good summary.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2874681/
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That's a hypothesis based on a study on rats. Not a fact about humans.
The paper you posted even says it's a hypothesis.
Your statement that the brain will tend to prefer whichever fuel is in abundance wasn't proven at all by what you posted.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3900881/Dependence of the brain on glucose as its obligatory fuel derives mainly from the blood-brain barrier (BBB; Glossary), and its selective permeability for glucose in the adult brain. Glucose cannot be replaced as an energy source but it can be supplemented, as during strenuous physical activity when blood lactate levels are elevated [14] or during prolonged starvation [15] when blood levels of ketone bodies are elevated and BBB monocarboxylic acid transporter (MCT) levels are upregulated. Because entry of neuroactive compounds (e.g., glutamate, aspartate, glycine, D-serine) into brain is highly restricted by the BBB, these compounds must be synthesized from glucose within the brain. The BBB and its transport properties sharply contrast with muscle and liver that do not have tight junctions between their vascular endothelial cells and have different transporter levels for various compounds, enabling these organs to metabolize glucose, monocarboxylic acids, fatty acids, amino acids, and ketone bodies.[/quot]9 -
Not sure from top of my head, but there are athletes who have competed while on ketogenic state, and I am talking ultra marathon runners as well, not just a 1 hour cross-fit session, which can be hard as hell on its won. One major issue with competing on ketogenic state is dehydration, as carbs retain water, and if there no carbs to retain water, dehydration is a possibility. Also, Ben Greenfield has tested this and Dr.Pompa him self tried it in real life scenario while going on a 3 hour bike ride (not casual) and did great, while the others were consuming simple sugars. So, there are fat adopted athletes who do not need coke or various gels to power through an event. However, one must understand, not all of us are physiologically gifted as these athletes, and do not exercise 4, 5 hours a day 5 days per week for 10 years. So, I am not saying I can run a marathon on keto diet, but I am sure I could train my body to do so, without losing time or bonking mid race.GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »It should be noted that all the endurance athletes who are supposedly keto carb up for and during events.
7 -
Not sure from top of my head, but there are athletes who have competed while on ketogenic state, and I am talking ultra marathon runners as well, not just a 1 hour cross-fit session, which can be hard as hell on its won. One major issue with competing on ketogenic state is dehydration, as carbs retain water, and if there no carbs to retain water, dehydration is a possibility. Also, Ben Greenfield has tested this and Dr.Pompa him self tried it in real life scenario while going on a 3 hour bike ride (not casual) and did great, while the others were consuming simple sugars. So, there are fat adopted athletes who do not need coke or various gels to power through an event. However, one must understand, not all of us are physiologically gifted as these athletes, and do not exercise 4, 5 hours a day 5 days per week for 10 years. So, I am not saying I can run a marathon on keto diet, but I am sure I could train my body to do so, without losing time or bonking mid race.
This had come up before and no one has ever identified an elite endurance athlete who competes while exclusively doing keto. If you know of some, please list them. Most carb load before competition eg. Chris Froome.4 -
Not sure from top of my head, but there are athletes who have competed while on ketogenic state, and I am talking ultra marathon runners as well, not just a 1 hour cross-fit session, which can be hard as hell on its won. One major issue with competing on ketogenic state is dehydration, as carbs retain water, and if there no carbs to retain water, dehydration is a possibility. Also, Ben Greenfield has tested this and Dr.Pompa him self tried it in real life scenario while going on a 3 hour bike ride (not casual) and did great, while the others were consuming simple sugars. So, there are fat adopted athletes who do not need coke or various gels to power through an event. However, one must understand, not all of us are physiologically gifted as these athletes, and do not exercise 4, 5 hours a day 5 days per week for 10 years. So, I am not saying I can run a marathon on keto diet, but I am sure I could train my body to do so, without losing time or bonking mid race.
A three hour ride is not an endurance event.
Greenfield uses gels during events, just like I said keto athletes do:
https://bengreenfieldfitness.com/article/the-kona-diaries-day-6-official-nutrition-racing-pacing-strategy-for-ironman-hawaii-and-how-to-deal-with-the-pain-cave/3 -
kendramnolan wrote: »HI, I'm 5'1" just looking to lose 18lbs. I just started counting my calories and am toying with the idea of keto. I would be in dire need of support and recipes as pasta and potatoes are staples in my house. I'm curious about how quickly the weight comes off and how healthy that would be. If anyone has any info or just wants to chat and motivate eachother let me know!
No. Just reduce calories by 250 or so and eat what you like. That will be most sustainable and not require support.
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GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »
A three hour ride is not an endurance event.
Greenfield uses gels during events, just like I said keto athletes do:
https://bengreenfieldfitness.com/article/the-kona-diaries-day-6-official-nutrition-racing-pacing-strategy-for-ironman-hawaii-and-how-to-deal-with-the-pain-cave/
greenfield also came in 230 overall - 58th in his age group at that Kona - solid performance, but not stellar (he completed in 9:36, the winner went 8:03)2 -
Fact is there's a reason why almost all athletes use carbs. Maybe you will have one oddball here and there, but in general, carbs is king for any physical activities.7
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Read this thread because I'm going to try keto.reasons being non gmo, less preseratives, more natural diet. There are so many chemicals used on our gmo (gmo already horrible) crops "round up ready crops" causing cancer ,allergies, all kinds of diseases. People have problems with stuff like glyphasate poisoning and think it's a gluten allergy.. the list goes on and on.now add in all the preservatives..I know I can lose on a norm diet.I lost 40 lbs and kept off for 3 yrs and then messed up and gained back. But I just want to eat more natural, and our grains and most crops not organic are "not natural any more." And what's preserving our foods blows my mind. Just going to watch potassium and magnesium close ,and convert slow .keto even recomends away fr toxins added in milk and alot off other stuff. And setting body up to burn fat seems a good move. Obviously need some carbs esp when working out harder- be smart and way it out i think. We shouldn't have to change our diets so drastically but man has played god trying to make more- quicker , and has ruined natural carbs in many ways sadly!
I have no problem avoiding GMOs, artificial preservatives (and colors and flavors) without needing keto.
To avoid pesticides, I refer to the Clean 15/Dirty Dozen, buy from local farms, and grow my own produce. Planted some lettuce, kale, and peas seeds Saturday. Bought kale and swiss chard seedlings Sunday, can't wait for it to harden off so I can plant it!
I only have two 4' x 8' garden beds here, but produce enough greens and herbs to get me through late spring to fall.5 -
Not sure from top of my head, but there are athletes who have competed while on ketogenic state, and I am talking ultra marathon runners as well, not just a 1 hour cross-fit session, which can be hard as hell on its won. One major issue with competing on ketogenic state is dehydration, as carbs retain water, and if there no carbs to retain water, dehydration is a possibility. Also, Ben Greenfield has tested this and Dr.Pompa him self tried it in real life scenario while going on a 3 hour bike ride (not casual) and did great, while the others were consuming simple sugars. So, there are fat adopted athletes who do not need coke or various gels to power through an event. However, one must understand, not all of us are physiologically gifted as these athletes, and do not exercise 4, 5 hours a day 5 days per week for 10 years. So, I am not saying I can run a marathon on keto diet, but I am sure I could train my body to do so, without losing time or bonking mid race.
Quite a few keto athletes will consume their carbs while exercising. Many think that eating carbs while exercising is not a ketogenic diet, but those athletes are often ketogenic at all times because they have burned off their carbs. Eating carbs does not mean one is not ketogenic. KWIM? All keto'ers eat carbs. Some choose to eat them around exercise so it is burned off more quickly, but they are still ketogenic athletes.11 -
Quite a few keto athletes will consume their carbs while exercising. Many think that eating carbs while exercising is not a ketogenic diet, but those athletes are often ketogenic at all times because they have burned off their carbs. Eating carbs does not mean one is not ketogenic. KWIM? All keto'ers eat carbs. Some choose to eat them around exercise so it is burned off more quickly, but they are still ketogenic athletes.
Are you saying top endurance athletes compete keto? That is what you seem to be implying. If so, please post the proof sources for your assertions.6 -
kshama2001 wrote: »
I have no problem avoiding GMOs, artificial preservatives (and colors and flavors) without needing keto.
To avoid pesticides, I refer to the Clean 15/Dirty Dozen, buy from local farms, and grow my own produce. Planted some lettuce, kale, and peas seeds Saturday. Bought kale and swiss chard seedlings Sunday, can't wait for it to harden off so I can plant it!
I only have two 4' x 8' garden beds here, but produce enough greens and herbs to get me through late spring to fall.
Considering how few GMOs are actually on the market, pretty much everyone can easily avoid those (not that they're a danger to anyone's health). You're also unlikely avoiding pesticides unless you're absolutely certain the farmers you're buying from aren't using them. EWG's list is nonsense, as are they.4 -
Are you saying top endurance athletes compete keto? That is what you seem to be implying. If so, please post the proof sources for your assertions.
Yeah, I'd like to see a source that claims that someone is ketogenic (using ketones for fuel) while "burning" carbohydrates (using carbs for fuel).
ETA: Furthermore, the claim is that "fat-adapted" athletes supposedly are using fat for fuel, and the proof was given that they fuel with carbs. All athletes are fat adapted, but ultimately, performance is enhanced by carbs, and even "fat-adapted" athletes know this, which is why they all take in carbs for events. There's not a single endurance athlete who doesn't use carbs for fuel, even if some use less than others.9 -
Are you saying top endurance athletes compete keto? That is what you seem to be implying. If so, please post the proof sources for your assertions.
I'm not sure why you got "top endurance athletes compete keto" from me typing, "Quite a few keto athletes will consume their carbs while exercising." I am guessing that there are some keto top athletes out there, but I have no idea who they could be since I don't watch sports.
... and by athlete I meant someone who does sports like plays basketball, 10k races, mountain bikes etc. Just someone who does sports. Not specifically someone who is paid to play sports.
I'm saying that someone who is ketogenic may eat carbs while exercising and still be ketogenic. I can't see why they wouldn't be just because they timed their carbs around exercise. Ketogains has good examples of this..3 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »
Yeah, I'd like to see a source that claims that someone is ketogenic (using ketones for fuel) while "burning" carbohydrates (using carbs for fuel).
ETA: Furthermore, the claim is that "fat-adapted" athletes supposedly are using fat for fuel, and the proof was given that they fuel with carbs. All athletes are fat adapted, but ultimately, performance is enhanced by carbs, and even "fat-adapted" athletes know this, which is why they all take in carbs for events. There's not a single endurance athlete who doesn't use carbs for fuel, even if some use less than others.
I disagree with the bolded. Not all athletes are fat adapted. Athletes may have their body better trained to use fats than the average higher carb person, but their fuel use is quite different than a fat adapted athlete (someone who has done keto for some months).
And I am sure that there are athletes who don't use carbs. I see posts by low carbers all the time on this. Or do you mean top athletes only?
But if they do choose to eat their carbs around exercise, so what? CKD and TKD both still have keto in the name. A ketogenic diet involves some carbs. If they choose to eat carbs around exercise, they are still ketogenic.
Peter Attia called carbs a performance enhancing drug. I think he compared it to coffee... carbs can help, but more is not always better... like coffe.
Or do you mean to imply that those athletes are carb loading the same as a higher carb athlete? Endurance athletes avoid ketosis while exercising?8 -
"nvmomketo wrote:I am guessing that there are some keto top athletes out there, but I have no idea who they could be since I don't watch sports.
For someone guessing and with no interest in sport you sure do promote your ideas about sport with remarkable frequency and enthusiasm!
14 -
I'm saying that someone who is ketogenic may eat carbs while exercising and still be ketogenic. I can't see why they wouldn't be just because they timed their carbs
Or they may not be. You really have no way of knowing. You are just speculation in a way that suits your bias.11 -
I disagree with the bolded. Not all athletes are fat adapted. Athletes may have their body better trained to use fats than the average higher carb person, but their fuel use is quite different than a fat adapted athlete (someone who has done keto for some months).
And I am sure that there are athletes who don't use carbs. I see posts by low carbers all the time on this. Or do you mean top athletes only?
But if they do choose to eat their carbs around exercise, so what? CKD and TKD both still have keto in the name. A ketogenic diet involves some carbs. If they choose to eat carbs around exercise, they are still ketogenic.
Peter Attia called carbs a performance enhancing drug. I think he compared it to coffee... carbs can help, but more is not always better... like coffe.
Or do you mean to imply that those athletes are carb loading the same as a higher carb athlete? Endurance athletes avoid ketosis while exercising?
No, I don't mean to imply they're carb loading. I mean that they are using carbs as fuel during endurance events which was the original topic.
And yes, we are all fat adapted. Everyone uses fat for fuel once glycogen is depleted.6 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »
No, I don't mean to imply they're carb loading. I mean that they are using carbs as fuel during endurance events which was the original topic.
And yes, we are all fat adapted. Everyone uses fat for fuel once glycogen is depleted.
Yes we all use fat for fuel during the time we are exercising but the second sentence is incorrect.
It's not sequential glycogen and then fat - it's a blend of both fuels in a changing ratio dependant on intensity.
(It's the basis of the horrible twisting of science that is the mythical fat burning zone!)
While keto enthusiasts like to point at the higher fat oxidation rates that some may achieve they strangely like to overlook that it is counterbalanced by also becoming carb impaired and with typically lower or stagnated performance.
6 -
I disagree with the bolded. Not all athletes are fat adapted. Athletes may have their body better trained to use fats than the average higher carb person, but their fuel use is quite different than a fat adapted athlete (someone who has done keto for some months).
And I am sure that there are athletes who don't use carbs. I see posts by low carbers all the time on this. Or do you mean top athletes only?
But if they do choose to eat their carbs around exercise, so what? CKD and TKD both still have keto in the name. A ketogenic diet involves some carbs. If they choose to eat carbs around exercise, they are still ketogenic.
Peter Attia called carbs a performance enhancing drug. I think he compared it to coffee... carbs can help, but more is not always better... like coffe.
Or do you mean to imply that those athletes are carb loading the same as a higher carb athlete? Endurance athletes avoid ketosis while exercising?
There is a significant difference between carbs and coffee. With caffeine, it can provide some minor benefit to exercise intensity, but that is assuming you are not a habitual user. Carbs habitually improve explosive performance and improve sport across the board. You don't build up tolerances, and if your glycogen is depleted, you suffer. So is it a sports enhancing drug, sure... it's been proven to be more effective for sports. It's why athletes eat, time or load carbs prior to events. Statistically, carbs are better than fat in sport.8
This discussion has been closed.
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