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Calorie in calorie out method is outdated
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PaulChasinDreams wrote: »L1zardQueen wrote: »PaulChasinDreams wrote: »Same small group of people here on the forum who are in denial and obviously always will be. They have not ever done this and have no first hand knowledge of it. They read articles/studies paid for and sponsored by groups hired or instructed by the food and drug lobby. Research that too. Tons of info on that too.
Hopefully people looking to lose weight will do their own research (easy to find all the info I posted). Like I said; contact actual people doing it as a a way of living. They are first hand real time information gateways. Not ink on a pad.
I have done keto. It is all kitten. Get back to us in a year and maybe we can talk. Right now, it’s called the honeymoon phase for you.
ETA spelling
As I said. You have not done both keto combined with high ratio window of fasting ie 20 to 23 hrs between every meal. That is where the metabolism/rate of fat burn changes. Not keto alone. If you read my post in full you would have seen that. So you saying "I have done keto. It is all kitten" is irrelevant to my points and my results.
There is nothing special about IF. I practice staccato fasting. It works for me.6 -
PaulChasinDreams wrote: »soufauxgirl wrote: »PaulChasinDreams wrote: »I just had a wager here with a couple peers that you wouldn't take the offer or opportunity because this 100% confirms you are BIASED and this forum WILL NOT post truth that contradicts and proves that CICO is not the only way to lose fat.
What else do you want me to offer LOL
Sure I will strap myself in a chair for a week and you can video tape it. There's your "metabolic chamber" LOL what a joke your excuses are.
Show your research. Then I might just start believing you.
You are assuming that I care what you believe. I do not. I put the info out there for people to research it if they care to. I do however care about people who want to drop a lot of fat to get healthy. How anyone does it is totally their own prerogative. If people reached out for info/help/guidance than I would enjoy sharing what I have learned and experienced just like others have done with me.
my question is if you dont care what others believe then why keep arguing about it? why are you still here arguing your point? you keep trying to prove your experience as proof yet showing none. all you keep saying is for people to make a bet with you or come to your home and follow you around. you are also wagering with others not online about whether someone here will take an offer or not. why does it matter to you? if you think and believe you are right them either get on with your life and stop caring what others think or show them the proof not just anecdotal evidence. if I were a special snowflake I would want the world to know and would be contacting the media,scientists and so on to get my proof out there. I would be glad to share my proof with anyone who asked.11 -
See my question to him above. I'm very curious about the ulterior motive as well.CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »my question is if you dont care what others believe then why keep arguing about it? why are you still here arguing your point?...
If what he was saying was true, there would be metabolic researchers lined up literally begging him and his multitudes of minions to be study subjects. It would be groundbreaking to discover something which countered all known laws of physics and physiology.CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »...if I were a special snowflake I would want the world to know and would be contacting the media,scientists and so on to get my proof out there. I would be glad to share my proof with anyone who asked.
But the truth is, if he went to any metabolic researcher with his claims, he'd be laughed right out of the room.4 -
See my question to him above. I'm very curious about the ulterior motive as well.CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »my question is if you dont care what others believe then why keep arguing about it? why are you still here arguing your point?...
If what he was saying was true, there would be metabolic researchers lined up literally begging him and his multitudes of minions to be study subjects. It would be groundbreaking to discover something which countered all known laws of physics and physiology.CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »...if I were a special snowflake I would want the world to know and would be contacting the media,scientists and so on to get my proof out there. I would be glad to share my proof with anyone who asked.
But the truth is, if he went to any metabolic researcher with his claims, he'd be laughed right out of the room.
I saw your posts and wonder as well about the ulterior motives as well.3 -
PaulChasinDreams wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »Thanks for putting numbers to it, @nutmegoreo
Seriously, it's like a caloric shell game, and Fung has all his followers scammed. It cracks me up. LOL there seriously isn't any simpler math possible for you to have to figure out.... 7 days x one big meal. Come on a shell game! You guys really do grasp at any straw you can to try to prove your unproven points.
Well, it wasn't quite clear you were doing OMAD, because you were too busy making up thousands and thousands of people and telling us all to go to google.
There are still other ways you could be playing a calorie shell game, especially with OMAD, because make no mistake... if you're losing weight, your body is absorbing less calories than it burns.5 -
PaulChasinDreams wrote: »soufauxgirl wrote: »PaulChasinDreams wrote: »I just had a wager here with a couple peers that you wouldn't take the offer or opportunity because this 100% confirms you are BIASED and this forum WILL NOT post truth that contradicts and proves that CICO is not the only way to lose fat.
What else do you want me to offer LOL Sure I will strap myself in a chair for a week and you can video tape it. There's your "metabolic chamber" LOL what a joke your excuses are.
Show your research. Then I might just start believing you.
You are assuming that I care what you believe. I do not. I put the info out there for people to research it if they care to. I do however care about people who want to drop a lot of fat to get healthy. How anyone does it is totally their own prerogative. If people reached out for info/help/guidance than I would enjoy sharing what I have learned and experienced just like others have done with me.
So let's cut to the chase - what are you selling? Is it a book? A diet plan? A subscription-only website where you offer your "expertise", or what? Are you shilling for Fung or one of his lackeys? Or maybe another Turing complete bot experiment here, we've had a couple of those too.
You offer no evidence of anything other than your far-out anecdotal claims which defy all known science, you refuse to post any evidence or studies to corroborate them, and you're obviously a True Believer on a fully religious scale, who refuses to even consider any evidence to the contrary. You've been shot down over and over again, yet you keep coming back for more. Most often, those types have something to sell.
So what is it? What are you trying to peddle here?
The power of poop.
You poop out the extra calories. At least that's what another poster used to go on about with the magic of OMAD.
Oh, and I forget! The energy generated by the need for gluconeogensis! That too!6 -
PaulChasinDreams wrote: »PaulChasinDreams wrote: »Same small group of people here on the forum who are in denial and obviously always will be. They have not ever done this and have no first hand knowledge of it. They read articles/studies paid for and sponsored by groups hired or instructed by the food and drug lobby. Research that too. Tons of info on that too.
Hopefully people looking to lose weight will do their own research (easy to find all the info I posted). Like I said; contact actual people doing it as a a way of living. They are first hand real time information gateways. Not ink on a pad.
I would love to read some of your research because I haven't found anything to support your claims. In fact, what you say it completely contrary to the thousands of metabolic ward studies and information coming from the NIH, but also information also coming from the most prominent researchers in the field for intermittent fasting and ketogenic diets.
And I know your will ignore this, like my previous posts, but the information I have posted is coming from the NIH, National Institute of Diabetes and Digestive and Kidney Diseases (KDH).
You are a forum moderator here so I would hope you are truly an unbiased person. If you are and you want to get to the 100% bottom of this and have 100% proof of what I say I will offer you this: I will tell you where I live. I will welcome you with open arms into my home. We have a farm on acerage. We have guest rooms. You are welcome to stay with us for a week (Do it on your holiday time. I will also take you fishing on the west coast to make it worth your holiday time) I am a married father of two teen girls. We are a tight family with good values. You can then watch, weigh, measure every gram of food I eat and calorie I burn. I would even go so far as to not do any exercise during the week so there can be no confusion of calories burned. The conditions would be: 1. I will eat a 200 calorie per day surplus in calories. 2. I will eat keto meals. 3. I will fast 23 to 23.5 hrs between meals. 4. No matter what the results may be you as a moderator guarantee to post a permanent sticky thread here on the forum in the debate section of the results of this first hand supervised study. 5. The owner of this community will openly agree to the terms of this agreement and will start a sticky describing what we are going to do and will update the sticky thread as discussed with the way the study is done and it's findings.
I don't know how else I could possibly make it easier for you to see first hand what I and 10's of thousands of other people around the world are doing. You will clearly see that you DO NOT have to be in a calorie deficit if you combine intermittent fasting at high ratio hours between meals with keto.
*edit..incorrectly typed "surplus" instead of "deficit" in last paragraph. Have corrected it.
You don't seem to understand how science works. What you describe is one half of a science experiment. The other half would be you eating the same number of calories at regular intervals. No one doubts you are losing weight as claimed, just that you are losing weight as claimed fasting intermittently and not while eating the same exact number of calories over the same period of time and activity while not fasting.
Even then, it would be difficult to control for non exercise activity such as fidgeting. If you personally feel better when fasting and are thus more active, you will burn more calories.6 -
rheddmobile wrote: »PaulChasinDreams wrote: »PaulChasinDreams wrote: »Same small group of people here on the forum who are in denial and obviously always will be. They have not ever done this and have no first hand knowledge of it. They read articles/studies paid for and sponsored by groups hired or instructed by the food and drug lobby. Research that too. Tons of info on that too.
Hopefully people looking to lose weight will do their own research (easy to find all the info I posted). Like I said; contact actual people doing it as a a way of living. They are first hand real time information gateways. Not ink on a pad.
I would love to read some of your research because I haven't found anything to support your claims. In fact, what you say it completely contrary to the thousands of metabolic ward studies and information coming from the NIH, but also information also coming from the most prominent researchers in the field for intermittent fasting and ketogenic diets.
And I know your will ignore this, like my previous posts, but the information I have posted is coming from the NIH, National Institute of Diabetes and Digestive and Kidney Diseases (KDH).
You are a forum moderator here so I would hope you are truly an unbiased person. If you are and you want to get to the 100% bottom of this and have 100% proof of what I say I will offer you this: I will tell you where I live. I will welcome you with open arms into my home. We have a farm on acerage. We have guest rooms. You are welcome to stay with us for a week (Do it on your holiday time. I will also take you fishing on the west coast to make it worth your holiday time) I am a married father of two teen girls. We are a tight family with good values. You can then watch, weigh, measure every gram of food I eat and calorie I burn. I would even go so far as to not do any exercise during the week so there can be no confusion of calories burned. The conditions would be: 1. I will eat a 200 calorie per day surplus in calories. 2. I will eat keto meals. 3. I will fast 23 to 23.5 hrs between meals. 4. No matter what the results may be you as a moderator guarantee to post a permanent sticky thread here on the forum in the debate section of the results of this first hand supervised study. 5. The owner of this community will openly agree to the terms of this agreement and will start a sticky describing what we are going to do and will update the sticky thread as discussed with the way the study is done and it's findings.
I don't know how else I could possibly make it easier for you to see first hand what I and 10's of thousands of other people around the world are doing. You will clearly see that you DO NOT have to be in a calorie deficit if you combine intermittent fasting at high ratio hours between meals with keto.
*edit..incorrectly typed "surplus" instead of "deficit" in last paragraph. Have corrected it.
You don't seem to understand how science works. What you describe is one half of a science experiment. The other half would be you eating the same number of calories at regular intervals. No one doubts you are losing weight as claimed, just that you are losing weight as claimed fasting intermittently and not while eating the same exact number of calories over the same period of time and activity while not fasting.
Even then, it would be difficult to control for non exercise activity such as fidgeting. If you personally feel better when fasting and are thus more active, you will burn more calories.
Given his history, I doubt that too.4 -
PaulChasinDreams wrote: »I just had a wager here with a couple peers that you wouldn't take the offer or opportunity because this 100% confirms you are BIASED and this forum WILL NOT post truth that contradicts and proves that CICO is not the only way to lose fat.
What else do you want me to offer LOL Sure I will strap myself in a chair for a week and you can video tape it. There's your "metabolic chamber" LOL what a joke your excuses are.
No man.. It means I don't want to spend time away from my family to go hang out with some dude from the internet. It's ok if you don't want to prove data, we all know the truth.
ETA: Also, lets be clear. Going to your house proves nothing. At best, I can observe how active you are, what your overall stature is, and assess your eating habits. What it can't provide are the most important parts of the equation (metabolic rate and TEE). Nor does it allow me to assess any of your metabolic markers. These are all basic data points in a controlled study. Without it, you are just making an observation which is useless. You would get the same type of data if you stayed at my house, which means nothing.
If you want a controlled study, then you not only measure those things, but also have a control group. I would also control for calories and protein to ensure there wasn't any true difference driven by higher protein diets.18 -
PaulChasinDreams wrote: »I just had a wager here with a couple peers that you wouldn't take the offer or opportunity because this 100% confirms you are BIASED and this forum WILL NOT post truth that contradicts and proves that CICO is not the only way to lose fat.
What else do you want me to offer LOL Sure I will strap myself in a chair for a week and you can video tape it. There's your "metabolic chamber" LOL what a joke your excuses are.
No man.. It means I don't want to spend time away from my family to go hang out with some dude from the internet. It's ok if you don't want to prove data, we all know the truth.
ETA: Also, lets be clear. Going to your house proves nothing. At best, I can observe how active you are, what your overall stature is, and assess your eating habits. What it can't provide are the most important parts of the equation (metabolic rate and TEE). Nor does it allow me to assess any of your metabolic markers. These are all basic data points in a controlled study. Without it, you are just making an observation which is useless. You would get the same type of data if you stayed at my house, which means nothing.
If you want a controlled study, then you not only measure those things, but also have a control group. I would also control for calories and protein to ensure there wasn't any true difference driven by higher protein diets.
I'd love to see him spend a month in a metabolic ward. It would put an end to this fraudulent fairy tale once and for all.5 -
I just had a giggle imagining the conversation between Lemon and his wife if this silliness were to, in some alternate bizarro reality, happen:
"Honey, I'm going to leave you alone with the kids for a week so I can fly across the country to stay with some rando and watch him eat. Sorry about that little weekend getaway we were saving up for, I'm sure you understand why I need to spend that money for something as important as this."13 -
PaulChasinDreams wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »Thanks for putting numbers to it, @nutmegoreo
Seriously, it's like a caloric shell game, and Fung has all his followers scammed. It cracks me up. LOL there seriously isn't any simpler math possible for you to have to figure out.... 7 days x one big meal. Come on a shell game! You guys really do grasp at any straw you can to try to prove your unproven points.
The irony. Oh, the irony. 12 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »I just had a giggle imagining the conversation between Lemon and his wife if this silliness were to, in some alternate bizarro reality, happen:
"Honey, I'm going to leave you alone with the kids for a week so I can fly across the country to stay with some rando and watch him eat. Sorry about that thing little weekend getaway we were saving up for, I'm sure you understand why I need to spend that money for something as important as this."
Sure, but he can bring back some fish, so it's a wash there.7 -
PaulChasinDreams wrote: »I just had a wager here with a couple peers that you wouldn't take the offer or opportunity because this 100% confirms you are BIASED and this forum WILL NOT post truth that contradicts and proves that CICO is not the only way to lose fat.
What else do you want me to offer LOL Sure I will strap myself in a chair for a week and you can video tape it. There's your "metabolic chamber" LOL what a joke your excuses are.
No man.. It means I don't want to spend time away from my family to go hang out with some dude from the internet. It's ok if you don't want to prove data, we all know the truth.
ETA: Also, lets be clear. Going to your house proves nothing. At best, I can observe how active you are, what your overall stature is, and assess your eating habits. What it can't provide are the most important parts of the equation (metabolic rate and TEE). Nor does it allow me to assess any of your metabolic markers. These are all basic data points in a controlled study. Without it, you are just making an observation which is useless. You would get the same type of data if you stayed at my house, which means nothing.
If you want a controlled study, then you not only measure those things, but also have a control group. I would also control for calories and protein to ensure there wasn't any true difference driven by higher protein diets.
I'd love to see him spend a month in a metabolic ward. It would put an end to this fraudulent fairy tale once and for all.
If only someone did that already. And it would be even better if that study was funded by NuSI (Gary Taubes company) and conducted by a research scientist who was a prominent figure when it comes to the study of metabolism. And what would make it gold, is if there where two groups in a metabolic ward, where calories and protein were matched; and where EE, fat loss and metaboloc factors were monitored over a period of time. That would be the dream.
In all seriousness, i would like to think i am rather open minded and often change my opinion based on research (i.e., meal frequentcy doesn't rev your metabolism). But i guess when i question or correct it comea off as biased. Who knew.10 -
PaulChasinDreams wrote: »soufauxgirl wrote: »PaulChasinDreams wrote: »I just had a wager here with a couple peers that you wouldn't take the offer or opportunity because this 100% confirms you are BIASED and this forum WILL NOT post truth that contradicts and proves that CICO is not the only way to lose fat.
What else do you want me to offer LOL Sure I will strap myself in a chair for a week and you can video tape it. There's your "metabolic chamber" LOL what a joke your excuses are.
Show your research. Then I might just start believing you.
You are assuming that I care what you believe. I do not. I put the info out there for people to research it if they care to. I do however care about people who want to drop a lot of fat to get healthy. How anyone does it is totally their own prerogative. If people reached out for info/help/guidance than I would enjoy sharing what I have learned and experienced just like others have done with me.
So let's cut to the chase - what are you selling? Is it a book? A diet plan? A subscription-only website where you offer your "expertise", or what? Are you shilling for Fung or one of his lackeys? Or maybe another Turing complete bot experiment here, we've had a couple of those too.
You offer no evidence of anything other than your far-out anecdotal claims which defy all known science, you refuse to post any evidence or studies to corroborate them, and you're obviously a True Believer on a fully religious scale, who refuses to even consider any evidence to the contrary. You've been shot down over and over again, yet you keep coming back for more. Most often, those types have something to sell.
So what is it? What are you trying to peddle here?
There's been nothing but silence from that poster for a bit... Could it be that your mention of a Turing bot experiment did the trick?6 -
PaulChasinDreams wrote: »soufauxgirl wrote: »PaulChasinDreams wrote: »I just had a wager here with a couple peers that you wouldn't take the offer or opportunity because this 100% confirms you are BIASED and this forum WILL NOT post truth that contradicts and proves that CICO is not the only way to lose fat.
What else do you want me to offer LOL Sure I will strap myself in a chair for a week and you can video tape it. There's your "metabolic chamber" LOL what a joke your excuses are.
Show your research. Then I might just start believing you.
You are assuming that I care what you believe. I do not. I put the info out there for people to research it if they care to. I do however care about people who want to drop a lot of fat to get healthy. How anyone does it is totally their own prerogative. If people reached out for info/help/guidance than I would enjoy sharing what I have learned and experienced just like others have done with me.
Here's the thing. You proclaim that there is info out there for people to research. Could you at least post a link to start it off. I really want to know what you are going on about.3 -
Sorry, I apologize for, being passive aggressive in that response. It is hard not to be when 98% of other peoples comments are "passive aggressive in the group here so dedicated to try to squash any other information given about this topic. It's easy to get caught up in the back and forth. I would like to keep it civil.
98% of posters can't ALL be wrong...surely???
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Do you really think a member of a forum would take the time to go to your house and watch you eat to help you prove your fantasy theories? You must be kidding.PaulChasinDreams wrote: »I just had a wager here with a couple peers that you wouldn't take the offer or opportunity because this 100% confirms you are BIASED and this forum WILL NOT post truth that contradicts and proves that CICO is not the only way to lose fat.
What else do you want me to offer LOL Sure I will strap myself in a chair for a week and you can video tape it. There's your "metabolic chamber" LOL what a joke your excuses are.
If you have all this research why not post it?
You say anyone can look it up and see what you are talking about. Here's the thing though, I can also Google things like is Elvis still alive and is the Earth flat and see 1000's of websites that say yes. It doesn't mean that the Earth is flat or Elvis is still alive. It means that there's bogus info all over the place.
You seem to not understand what the word research means or maybe you know that you can't provide any reliable sources.
Should we blindly believe everything we read then? Or should we take the time and learn how to do proper research so we can weed out the woo?
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PaulChasinDreams wrote: »soufauxgirl wrote: »PaulChasinDreams wrote: »I just had a wager here with a couple peers that you wouldn't take the offer or opportunity because this 100% confirms you are BIASED and this forum WILL NOT post truth that contradicts and proves that CICO is not the only way to lose fat.
What else do you want me to offer LOL Sure I will strap myself in a chair for a week and you can video tape it. There's your "metabolic chamber" LOL what a joke your excuses are.
Show your research. Then I might just start believing you.
You are assuming that I care what you believe. I do not. I put the info out there for people to research it if they care to. I do however care about people who want to drop a lot of fat to get healthy. How anyone does it is totally their own prerogative. If people reached out for info/help/guidance than I would enjoy sharing what I have learned and experienced just like others have done with me.
Ok have sent a private message to you. Looking forward to your response thanks
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If I said something like I have the bestest weight loss magic plan ever. I rub orange peels on my body twice a day while wearing a Batman cape while singing Tupac songs.
You can Google it and find lots of research on my theory or come to my house and watch me do it to prove that it's a superior method.
Does this sound plausible? Wouldn't you want to know where I got the information from or why I felt like rubbing orange peels on my skin while wearing a cape and singing Tupac would cause weight loss?
Surely you can't expect people to just show up at your house to prove some wild theory.
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