Anyone cutting after a bulk?

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  • sardelsa
    sardelsa Posts: 9,812 Member
    sardelsa wrote: »
    @sardelsa wrote: »
    draelsaid I would focus on one thing at a time.. bulking for a few weeks then cutting, it's not as optimal and you are more likely to spin your wheels.. it's not enough time to build any significant muscle then you cut and you are basically taking two steps forward and two steps back. Muscle growth is slow and takes months.

    What are your stats and bodyfat%?

    You've done phenomenally well...

    A perfect slow cut... I wish I had that kind of consistency lol...

    Gives us all something to chase :heart:

    Thank you @Mr_Healthy_Habits ! Very slow and steady but I got there :)

    That's how it's done tho.. The best way

    I've gained about 5lbs in the last month since we welcomed a new baby girl in to the home and I've been off work...

    However I did get a fair amount stronger too

    But I've already dropped like 2lbs since going back to work 3 or 4 days ago so we'll see what happens over the next month

    Crazy thing is, I'd swear I was in a fair deficit the whole time

    Oh congratulations! Oh if my schedule changes - disruption of sleep, increase/decrease workouts, change in seasons etc my weight fluctuates all over the place.
  • steveko89
    steveko89 Posts: 2,223 Member
    sardelsa wrote: »
    draelsaid wrote: »
    sardelsa wrote: »
    @draelsaid I would focus on one thing at a time.. bulking for a few weeks then cutting, it's not as optimal and you are more likely to spin your wheels.. it's not enough time to build any significant muscle then you cut and you are basically taking two steps forward and two steps back. Muscle growth is slow and takes months.

    What are your stats and bodyfat%?

    I'm 190cm and I weigh 90kg. I think my body fat is around 15-18%, just comparing body shots with other men, but that's a guess because I don't know how to reliably measure it. The 'grabbing the fat on the waist' idea with tongs doesn't check out with me.

    With your stats I would probably focus on cutting a bit more vs trying to run small bulks.

    I'm definitely with Stef on this one. From personal experience, trying to capture the unicorn of building muscle while losing any appreciable requires a very very narrow input window and only resulted in wheel-spinning for me.

    Conventional wisdom (backed by at least some measure of evidence) for men is to cut down to 10-12% BF and bulk back to 15-17% for the more efficient muscle gain. FWIW 6k calories, regardless of macro distribution, sounds like overkill. I'm not that much smaller than you at 185cm and 79kg (6'1" 176lbs in freedom units) and my TDEE is around 2500.
  • GratefulWayFarer
    GratefulWayFarer Posts: 61 Member
    I don't like purely cutting because I get weaker and lose muscle mass inevitably. At least this way I can see my body fat % dropping (albeit very slowly) and my 5x5 weights still go up. When I tried cutting and being in calorie deficit I was weak, felt skinny (nimble and quicker was the only upside) and I couldn't progress in lifting more weight. I was at 85kg and around 12% bf but I didn't look good (in my opinion) or feel good. 85kg on 6ft3 is not nice.

    I'm think I'm going to stick with this for 6 months and see what happens for the time being!
  • JaymereEllis
    JaymereEllis Posts: 10 Member
    edited November 2018
    I'm about a month and a half away from cutting. Still in the bulking process. Not sure if I'm doing any of this right, but my body looks pretty good and everyone says I have gained a lot of mass 🤷🏿‍♂️ My workouts consist of alternating between lifting heavy with low reps (10 to 12) and doing lightweight for isolation workouts with a higher rep count (12 to 15). I'm not doing much cardio, but that will change before this month is over. It's rough some days, but I keep pushing because I want to win this competition. It's my first one. Super excited!
  • nexangelus
    nexangelus Posts: 2,080 Member
    draelsaid wrote: »
    So do you try and use fasting or spacing out when you have your meals to cut? Or simply play with your macros? Sorry if you've mentioned it but it's a long thread and I couldn't read it all.

    I am pretty much the same as sardelsa (apart from the espresso)...lower cals on rest days and more on lifting days...I do not fast, as this sends me into a hungry/angry/eat three days' cals ahead kinda state, does not work for me...higher carbs on lifting days, lower on rest days...as well...I have never tried recomp, just cutting and one bulk when not lean (for psychological reasons)...will head towards goal of 140ish lbs and perhaps do my first bulk when relatively lean...oh and Sunday is my last day of cutting until around year end...got two strongman comps coming up and want to recover well from those plus the training...am feeling strong but a little bit beaten up at the moment...
  • nexangelus
    nexangelus Posts: 2,080 Member
    Final figures for the cut are in and I am eating maintenance until year end now. Boosh!

    Sept 10th - 166.6 lbs
    Oct 6th - 164.2 lbs
    Oct 14th - 161.4 lbs
    Oct 19th - 163 lbs (expected water weight gain)
    Oct 27th - 161.8 lbs
    Nov 2nd - 160 lbs
    Nov 11th - 158.6 lbs

    3 kg leeway for the comp.
  • Silkysausage
    Silkysausage Posts: 502 Member
    On a mini bulk after ending up with illness related stomach/sinus trouble and not being able to fit in the usual calories.

    I'm feeling much better with a reduced meal plan, fat gain was a little high as I miscalculated the original bulking cals so it's a win win.
  • steveko89
    steveko89 Posts: 2,223 Member
    Nexangelus' comment about a 3kg recomp window got me thinking and I took a look into my data for this year this morning. By daily weight my range has been 170-180.8 lbs (171.6-178.3 by weekly average) which is only a spread of 10.8 and 6.8 lbs respectively (4.899 and 3.084 kg) with a median for the year up to this point of 174.8 lbs (176 weekly average median so effectively a range of +2.3 or -4.4 lbs from median throughout the year thus far). Comparing to others' weight changes here mine seems stupidly narrow. So, I pose to the group, should I just lean into this recomp and stay the course or am I leaving too much on the table and should just get my act together and figure out how to get myself to a proper cut/bulk rhythm?

    *I can post pics if that would help others advise.
  • psuLemon
    psuLemon Posts: 38,431 MFP Moderator
    steveko89 wrote: »
    Nexangelus' comment about a 3kg recomp window got me thinking and I took a look into my data for this year this morning. By daily weight my range has been 170-180.8 lbs (171.6-178.3 by weekly average) which is only a spread of 10.8 and 6.8 lbs respectively (4.899 and 3.084 kg) with a median for the year up to this point of 174.8 lbs (176 weekly average median so effectively a range of +2.3 or -4.4 lbs from median throughout the year thus far). Comparing to others' weight changes here mine seems stupidly narrow. So, I pose to the group, should I just lean into this recomp and stay the course or am I leaving too much on the table and should just get my act together and figure out how to get myself to a proper cut/bulk rhythm?

    *I can post pics if that would help others advise.

    Pics might help, but its also a question of patience... I have seen good recomps take up to two years, but that was for a really consistent women (26 to 14.5%). But in 1.5 years she got down to 18%. Males might be a bit faster, but its also largely your goals of leanness and speed.
  • steveko89
    steveko89 Posts: 2,223 Member
    Black boxers pic is from 9/14/18 at 179lbs. Allegedly 12.8% body fat per my skulpt. Grey boxers from 1/19/18 at 173.6 lbs, 14% using the same device. 176.2 lbs as of this morning 49gaflfazd9m.jpeg
    z9xt4qghcha7.jpeg

    I fully get the difference between recomping vs. bulk/cutting; looking for some direction/suggestions/criticism. I’ve also felt like I’ve been in a generic funk for the last week or so and I can’t seem to put my finger on why.
  • jseams1234
    jseams1234 Posts: 1,219 Member
    You look slightly leaner in the grey boxers picture (top one). I can't comment on your actual bodyfat percentage as I've learned, at least with myself, that abs are a poor indicator as mine show while I'm still at 15% or so...

    I've never been a fan of recomp. The idea just pushes all the wrong buttons for me. I've seen too many guys in the gym who are recomping and even years later if there is a difference I can't see it. They don't appear much stronger and they certainly don't appear more muscular. However, it's entirely possible that it's simply their programming... or that they have no interest in adding much mass. For you though, it's obvious you already have a good physique. Leaning out a bit would make it really pop.
  • steveko89
    steveko89 Posts: 2,223 Member
    jseams1234 wrote: »
    it's obvious you already have a good physique. Leaning out a bit would make it really pop.

    Thanks, Jseams, especially for that comment. I definitely don’t see myself that way and maybe I’m just in my head too much about where I am and what I should be doing.
  • Mr_Healthy_Habits
    Mr_Healthy_Habits Posts: 12,588 Member
    Well... Scale says I'm up several lbs over the last month, but my waist measurement, Skinfold calipers and mirror do not corroborate with that

    So.... I guess that's really what I want

    Just so difficult to tell if that's progress or not... But I'm definitely able to squeeze out a few extra reps compared to last month
  • You could say I'm "cutting after a bulk"
    A dirty bulk. That lasted 2 years. And I quit lifting for most of those 2 years.

    It's going well. Over halfway through my "cut" and my strength is back to as high if not higher than it ever has been, on most of my lifts anyway. Dead is not quite there, and I'm not really expecting it to get there until I can eat at maintenence.
  • nexangelus
    nexangelus Posts: 2,080 Member
    Sept 10th - 166.6 lbs
    Oct 6th - 164.2 lbs
    Oct 14th - 161.4 lbs
    Oct 19th - 163 lbs (expected water weight gain)
    Oct 27th - 161.8 lbs
    Nov 2nd - 160 lbs
    Nov 11th - 158.6 lbs
    Nov 18th - 158 lbs

    After a week at maintenance still dropped another 0.6 lb. maintenance might be slightly higher than calculators. Will raise them from 2300 and see...

    Oh I meant 3kg leeway for my competition weight class, sorry for the confusion folks...I compete in U75 kg category strongwoman...

  • nexangelus
    nexangelus Posts: 2,080 Member
    Last weigh in end of November was 157.8 lbs.

    Now maintaining for 9th December competition U75 kg category. Post competition, so from 10th December I will be bulking until April 6th which is a national qualifier so I need all the lean mass and strength I can muster! U82 kg weight class.

    Will be back here next cutting phase. Need to make a decision whether to get to my ultimate goal weight, for aesthetics and maintain strength and increase strength eventually and compete in U63 kg category, or body recomp. in the higher weight category...hmmmm...
  • sardelsa
    sardelsa Posts: 9,812 Member
    @nexangelus awesome stuff, good luck on your competition !
  • steveko89
    steveko89 Posts: 2,223 Member
    Yes, good stuff @nexangelus. Good luck competing.

    I've actually been uncharacteristically consistent over the past few weeks, dropped my moving average from 177.7 on 11/10 down to 175.9 as of this morning. Deadlift PR at 395 on Saturday too.

    It's finally baby-week for us too; The Mrs. is being induced this coming Saturday so I've been spending a portion of my free time and assembling baby-critical items, most of which I have to ask what they're for/do. I'm a little more calm than I thought I would be, I can't decide of that's a good sign or just naivety. I'll be working a partial schedule, all from home for the remainder of the month (no paternity leave policy), so I'm at least a little more optimistic I'll be able to fit in workouts and manage calories in between diaper duty.
  • Tic78
    Tic78 Posts: 232 Member
    @steveko89 exciting times Steve, good luck with everything 👍


    I can’t get back to my cut, last few weeks have been maintaining at around 7lbs heavier than my pre holiday weight. I also hurt my shoulder so I’ve not been at the gym for almost 3 weeks. I managed to go a whole year without missing more than the occasional day so this lay off has hit me hard. Going back tomorrow but will be taking it easy.
  • sardelsa
    sardelsa Posts: 9,812 Member
    Yay @steveko89, very exciting!! Best of luck

    @Tic78, ack sorry about your shoulder hope it heals up soon. It's really hard coming back from a holiday, I took some time off when I was away for about a week and I am still defluffing from the bloat and trying to get my numbers back up. I really just want to maintain already!!
  • steveko89
    steveko89 Posts: 2,223 Member
    Tic78 wrote: »
    @steveko89 exciting times Steve, good luck with everything 👍


    I can’t get back to my cut, last few weeks have been maintaining at around 7lbs heavier than my pre holiday weight. I also hurt my shoulder so I’ve not been at the gym for almost 3 weeks. I managed to go a whole year without missing more than the occasional day so this lay off has hit me hard. Going back tomorrow but will be taking it easy.

    Thanks, @Tic78. Take it easy getting your shoulder back to 100%. I had to learn the hard way with my pec injury to really treat it with kid gloves; just take your proverbial medicine to get healthy rather than try to grind through it. I slept oddly on my shoulder last night, though not enough to blame missing on my 400lb Deadlift attempt this morning; got it off the floor but couldn't quite drive up to lockout. I also tried it on my fourth set after three singles at 345. In hindsight, maybe not the best approach. I'll probably try again on Thursday since I can't guarantee what anything is going to look like come next week.
  • Mr_Healthy_Habits
    Mr_Healthy_Habits Posts: 12,588 Member
    @sardelsa

    xhk7bnxfbyzq.jpg

    I've ran pretty consistently for about 3 or 4yrs now, a little less these last 6 months due to overuse knee injuries, but I've got to say, this thing kicked my *kitten* lol...

    15min ≈ 25min running on the treadmill

    According to the machine anyhow, my G2 watch tells a different story, but then I tracked it as a step climber because this machine has no other option really since it's not a true stepper nor elliptical...

    However, lungs on fire afterwards and the best part of it all... 0 knee pain 🤜💥🤛
  • sardelsa
    sardelsa Posts: 9,812 Member
    @Mr_Healthy_Habits
    Nice!!! Yea it is great on the joints. I love that machine, well we have a love-hate relationship but it's mostly love ;)

  • sardelsa
    sardelsa Posts: 9,812 Member
    @nexangelus , congratulations, that is amazing! You are awesome. Maintenance/small surplus (aka recombulk) sounds like a great plan. I think you can decide closer to your next competition if you want to cut down a bit or maintain. Good luck!

    Yay @steveko89 congratulations on your little one!!
  • Tic78
    Tic78 Posts: 232 Member
    Congrats @Steveko89 glad to hear Steve junior has arrived. He will be lifting weights with his dad in no time 😆
  • Mr_Healthy_Habits
    Mr_Healthy_Habits Posts: 12,588 Member
    nexangelus wrote: »
    Post competition weight is 157lbs...I came 1st, trophy and all booyah! Thanks for the well wishes folks! Now for the national competition next year (there might be two, depending on how much more lean mass and strength I can forge ahead with)

    That machine though @Mr_Healthy_Habits how in the hell do you get it (the motion) to go forwards, I can only get it working in reverse...gah!? I use it for intervals...

    Plan is to eat at maintenance, slight surplus, I don't really want to bulk as such, there are interim weight categories (so U75kg might be a long term weight class for me) in other strongman federations/comps/groups...it is that dilemma, do I eventually cut to goal weight (and look leaner, blah de blah) and hold onto my gained strength (can I be as strong and have as much leverage at 138lbs as 157lbs?) Hmmmm....or do I sit where I feel really strong and comfortable for the moment?! Decisions, decisions. For now, it is new programme, to get beast mode (those national level weights are kinda scary!)

    Oooh @steveko89 congrats and exciting times ahead! My two babies are 16 and 19 now...

    Hey! Big congrats on your comp :heart:
    I wish I was consistent as you lol, but the weekends in this house have been ruled by holiday pies as of late lol...

    You know... I've never noticed if I was going forward or backwards lol

    I'm about to get on it in a bit tho, I'll make note of my direction... I can say I havnt used it since Sunday and my quads are still pretty sore... Nice to have sore legs without knee pain tho 🤷🏽‍♂️
  • psuLemon
    psuLemon Posts: 38,431 MFP Moderator
    Its been awhile since i have been remotely active. Needless to say, my cut didn't work. Work got crazy with travel and stuff. Up 8 lbs from my low. And working on getting some motivation and drive to make a strong effort to cut.... After Xmas of course lol.
  • Silkysausage
    Silkysausage Posts: 502 Member
    I'm done bulking, 17 pounds up and feeling quite large all round. Currently on 2200 cals, lifting 4 days a week on an upper/lower split.

    Do I drop cals by 100, bit at a time and keep lifting the same routine but with added cardio afterwards?