Anyone cutting after a bulk?
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So do you try and use fasting or spacing out when you have your meals to cut? Or simply play with your macros? Sorry if you've mentioned it but it's a long thread and I couldn't read it all.0
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So do you try and use fasting or spacing out when you have your meals to cut? Or simply play with your macros? Sorry if you've mentioned it but it's a long thread and I couldn't read it all.
I think everyone has their own tricks, for me I calorie cycle, so I have lower calories on rest/less intense days, higher calories on heavy lifting and weekends. I also keep protein high, and try to keep calories lower from after breakfast to dinner. Oh and lots of espresso !3 -
@draelsaid, not sure to whom your question is directed but I'll share my methods/experiences. I dabbled with IF around this time last year and didn't find that it made it any easier/harder to hit my calories, just created some general consternation on weekends ("what do you mean you aren't eating breakfast? It's Sunday?" from my wife). I generally stick to 1g/lb total body weight out of preference. I'm aware of the studies that support 0.6-0.8g/lb but it makes the math easier and since I have a pretty poor track record of actually cutting I'm assuming any extra protein isn't harming muscle synthesis with my net effect being a wide-band recomp. When/if I ever get to a good place to lean bulk I'll probably stay around the same place protein-wise. Currently my target works out to a 45/30/25% (P-F-C) split. At +200/day over TDEE I'd probably flip it to about a 25/30/45% split at the same protein level.2
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Thanks for your responses @sardelsa and @steveko89.
See the thing is, I interpret resting days as recovery days, and I fact, because my program is different (I do 5x5 simply because I don't have time in my life to spend more time in the gym) my lifts during the week are heavy. I'm close to 200kg on deadlift (440lbs I think??) and I squat half that. So on my rest days I'll eat 3 times a day and eat alot (6000 calories easily but it feels forced, I've never liked breakfast) and on most other days I won't have breakfast simply because I don't feel hungry. Because I'm almost keto, my body composition and weight don't fluctuate when I do this. Eating 6000 calories of fats and protein is not the same as eating 6k calories of carbs and protein. Carbs bloat me up badly and I can instantly see my veins disappear on my arms for example due to the amount of fat I've stored from the carbs. My body just doesnt like carbs.
You could say I use intermittent fasting as a general life rule, and I'll make sure I sync my eating windows with daylight (when the sun is out) as a bare minimum if I don't intermittent fast, to ensure I keep to my circadian rhythm in terms of nutrition. I like eating big and not often, so this seems to suit me. If I ate more often I'll become an elephant because 'I pop I just can't stop' when it comes to food.
However, with all that being said, my weight has stayed around 90kg for the last 3 months and although I'm getting stronger, my fat % has gone up and down based on the week I've had. I'm just not sure it's going down after all. You could say I do 'bulk/cut' cycles just like you guys, just over a few weeks, rather than a few months. I'm trying to bulk and lose fat at the same time, and while I think it's working, I have to keep reminding myself to stay patient!5 -
@draelsaid I would focus on one thing at a time.. bulking for a few weeks then cutting, it's not as optimal and you are more likely to spin your wheels.. it's not enough time to build any significant muscle then you cut and you are basically taking two steps forward and two steps back. Muscle growth is slow and takes months.
What are your stats and bodyfat%?1 -
draelsaid I would focus on one thing at a time.. bulking for a few weeks then cutting, it's not as optimal and you are more likely to spin your wheels.. it's not enough time to build any significant muscle then you cut and you are basically taking two steps forward and two steps back. Muscle growth is slow and takes months.
What are your stats and bodyfat%?
You've done phenomenally well...
A perfect slow cut... I wish I had that kind of consistency lol...
Gives us all something to chase
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@draelsaid I would focus on one thing at a time.. bulking for a few weeks then cutting, it's not as optimal and you are more likely to spin your wheels.. it's not enough time to build any significant muscle then you cut and you are basically taking two steps forward and two steps back. Muscle growth is slow and takes months.
What are your stats and bodyfat%?
I'm 190cm and I weigh 90kg. I think my body fat is around 15-18%, just comparing body shots with other men, but that's a guess because I don't know how to reliably measure it. The 'grabbing the fat on the waist' idea with tongs doesn't check out with me.0 -
@draelsaid I would focus on one thing at a time.. bulking for a few weeks then cutting, it's not as optimal and you are more likely to spin your wheels.. it's not enough time to build any significant muscle then you cut and you are basically taking two steps forward and two steps back. Muscle growth is slow and takes months.
What are your stats and bodyfat%?
I'm 190cm and I weigh 90kg. I think my body fat is around 15-18%, just comparing body shots with other men, but that's a guess because I don't know how to reliably measure it. The 'grabbing the fat on the waist' idea with tongs doesn't check out with me.
With your stats I would probably focus on cutting a bit more vs trying to run small bulks.0 -
Mr_Healthy_Habits wrote: »draelsaid I would focus on one thing at a time.. bulking for a few weeks then cutting, it's not as optimal and you are more likely to spin your wheels.. it's not enough time to build any significant muscle then you cut and you are basically taking two steps forward and two steps back. Muscle growth is slow and takes months.
What are your stats and bodyfat%?
You've done phenomenally well...
A perfect slow cut... I wish I had that kind of consistency lol...
Gives us all something to chase
Thank you @Mr_Healthy_Habits ! Very slow and steady but I got there
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Mr_Healthy_Habits wrote: »draelsaid I would focus on one thing at a time.. bulking for a few weeks then cutting, it's not as optimal and you are more likely to spin your wheels.. it's not enough time to build any significant muscle then you cut and you are basically taking two steps forward and two steps back. Muscle growth is slow and takes months.
What are your stats and bodyfat%?
You've done phenomenally well...
A perfect slow cut... I wish I had that kind of consistency lol...
Gives us all something to chase
Thank you @Mr_Healthy_Habits ! Very slow and steady but I got there
That's how it's done tho.. The best way
I've gained about 5lbs in the last month since we welcomed a new baby girl in to the home and I've been off work...
However I did get a fair amount stronger too
But I've already dropped like 2lbs since going back to work 3 or 4 days ago so we'll see what happens over the next month
Crazy thing is, I'd swear I was in a fair deficit the whole time0 -
Mr_Healthy_Habits wrote: »Mr_Healthy_Habits wrote: »draelsaid I would focus on one thing at a time.. bulking for a few weeks then cutting, it's not as optimal and you are more likely to spin your wheels.. it's not enough time to build any significant muscle then you cut and you are basically taking two steps forward and two steps back. Muscle growth is slow and takes months.
What are your stats and bodyfat%?
You've done phenomenally well...
A perfect slow cut... I wish I had that kind of consistency lol...
Gives us all something to chase
Thank you @Mr_Healthy_Habits ! Very slow and steady but I got there
That's how it's done tho.. The best way
I've gained about 5lbs in the last month since we welcomed a new baby girl in to the home and I've been off work...
However I did get a fair amount stronger too
But I've already dropped like 2lbs since going back to work 3 or 4 days ago so we'll see what happens over the next month
Crazy thing is, I'd swear I was in a fair deficit the whole time
Oh congratulations! Oh if my schedule changes - disruption of sleep, increase/decrease workouts, change in seasons etc my weight fluctuates all over the place.1 -
@draelsaid I would focus on one thing at a time.. bulking for a few weeks then cutting, it's not as optimal and you are more likely to spin your wheels.. it's not enough time to build any significant muscle then you cut and you are basically taking two steps forward and two steps back. Muscle growth is slow and takes months.
What are your stats and bodyfat%?
I'm 190cm and I weigh 90kg. I think my body fat is around 15-18%, just comparing body shots with other men, but that's a guess because I don't know how to reliably measure it. The 'grabbing the fat on the waist' idea with tongs doesn't check out with me.
With your stats I would probably focus on cutting a bit more vs trying to run small bulks.
I'm definitely with Stef on this one. From personal experience, trying to capture the unicorn of building muscle while losing any appreciable requires a very very narrow input window and only resulted in wheel-spinning for me.
Conventional wisdom (backed by at least some measure of evidence) for men is to cut down to 10-12% BF and bulk back to 15-17% for the more efficient muscle gain. FWIW 6k calories, regardless of macro distribution, sounds like overkill. I'm not that much smaller than you at 185cm and 79kg (6'1" 176lbs in freedom units) and my TDEE is around 2500.1 -
I don't like purely cutting because I get weaker and lose muscle mass inevitably. At least this way I can see my body fat % dropping (albeit very slowly) and my 5x5 weights still go up. When I tried cutting and being in calorie deficit I was weak, felt skinny (nimble and quicker was the only upside) and I couldn't progress in lifting more weight. I was at 85kg and around 12% bf but I didn't look good (in my opinion) or feel good. 85kg on 6ft3 is not nice.
I'm think I'm going to stick with this for 6 months and see what happens for the time being!0 -
I'm about a month and a half away from cutting. Still in the bulking process. Not sure if I'm doing any of this right, but my body looks pretty good and everyone says I have gained a lot of mass 🤷🏿♂️ My workouts consist of alternating between lifting heavy with low reps (10 to 12) and doing lightweight for isolation workouts with a higher rep count (12 to 15). I'm not doing much cardio, but that will change before this month is over. It's rough some days, but I keep pushing because I want to win this competition. It's my first one. Super excited!0
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So do you try and use fasting or spacing out when you have your meals to cut? Or simply play with your macros? Sorry if you've mentioned it but it's a long thread and I couldn't read it all.
I am pretty much the same as sardelsa (apart from the espresso)...lower cals on rest days and more on lifting days...I do not fast, as this sends me into a hungry/angry/eat three days' cals ahead kinda state, does not work for me...higher carbs on lifting days, lower on rest days...as well...I have never tried recomp, just cutting and one bulk when not lean (for psychological reasons)...will head towards goal of 140ish lbs and perhaps do my first bulk when relatively lean...oh and Sunday is my last day of cutting until around year end...got two strongman comps coming up and want to recover well from those plus the training...am feeling strong but a little bit beaten up at the moment...0 -
Final figures for the cut are in and I am eating maintenance until year end now. Boosh!
Sept 10th - 166.6 lbs
Oct 6th - 164.2 lbs
Oct 14th - 161.4 lbs
Oct 19th - 163 lbs (expected water weight gain)
Oct 27th - 161.8 lbs
Nov 2nd - 160 lbs
Nov 11th - 158.6 lbs
3 kg leeway for the comp.
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On a mini bulk after ending up with illness related stomach/sinus trouble and not being able to fit in the usual calories.
I'm feeling much better with a reduced meal plan, fat gain was a little high as I miscalculated the original bulking cals so it's a win win.1 -
Nexangelus' comment about a 3kg recomp window got me thinking and I took a look into my data for this year this morning. By daily weight my range has been 170-180.8 lbs (171.6-178.3 by weekly average) which is only a spread of 10.8 and 6.8 lbs respectively (4.899 and 3.084 kg) with a median for the year up to this point of 174.8 lbs (176 weekly average median so effectively a range of +2.3 or -4.4 lbs from median throughout the year thus far). Comparing to others' weight changes here mine seems stupidly narrow. So, I pose to the group, should I just lean into this recomp and stay the course or am I leaving too much on the table and should just get my act together and figure out how to get myself to a proper cut/bulk rhythm?
*I can post pics if that would help others advise.
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Nexangelus' comment about a 3kg recomp window got me thinking and I took a look into my data for this year this morning. By daily weight my range has been 170-180.8 lbs (171.6-178.3 by weekly average) which is only a spread of 10.8 and 6.8 lbs respectively (4.899 and 3.084 kg) with a median for the year up to this point of 174.8 lbs (176 weekly average median so effectively a range of +2.3 or -4.4 lbs from median throughout the year thus far). Comparing to others' weight changes here mine seems stupidly narrow. So, I pose to the group, should I just lean into this recomp and stay the course or am I leaving too much on the table and should just get my act together and figure out how to get myself to a proper cut/bulk rhythm?
*I can post pics if that would help others advise.
Pics might help, but its also a question of patience... I have seen good recomps take up to two years, but that was for a really consistent women (26 to 14.5%). But in 1.5 years she got down to 18%. Males might be a bit faster, but its also largely your goals of leanness and speed.1 -
Black boxers pic is from 9/14/18 at 179lbs. Allegedly 12.8% body fat per my skulpt. Grey boxers from 1/19/18 at 173.6 lbs, 14% using the same device. 176.2 lbs as of this morning
I fully get the difference between recomping vs. bulk/cutting; looking for some direction/suggestions/criticism. I’ve also felt like I’ve been in a generic funk for the last week or so and I can’t seem to put my finger on why.2
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