Why is (carefully planned) rapid weight loss bad?
Replies
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Looking for validation.26
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"Someone"? No idea. Someone who has the same level and type of activity? I would expect more but I couldn't quantify it.TavistockToad wrote: »
how much more muscle do you think you've got compared to someone who has never been obese?8 -
Regarding muscle, it pays to think ahead. The more you save, the more you'll have as you get older, because it decreases with age unless you're active about preserving it and sarcopenia is bad news.
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Losing muscle means you will have a weaker body, more prone to injury and things like osteoporosis, a slower metabolism, lower caloric needs (which also can leader to faster regain since you lowered your TDEE) and a host of other thing.
Also, carrying more muscle doesn't mean you are going to be bodybuilder jacked. Those people grew substantial amounts of muscle over time. And no, more muscle doesn't damage cells. There is a reason why muscle is associated with a healthy body.
I'm not talking about getting to really low muscle levels though, just a normal amount for ones body type and size assuming a normal level of activity, carrying things/children, doing work around the home and garden, transporting oneself places etc. Your body isn't going to sacrifice muscle it uses until it absolutely has to.
This shows that while over weight individual have more muscle mass they have poor muscle quality. And its inevitable that you will lose muscle along side fat with aggressive/rapid weight loss.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28507015
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LivingtheLeanDream wrote: »I don't know why OP posted as she doesn't seem to want to take on board anyones advice...
Just because I am *not* convinced doesn't mean I *can't* be convinced.31 -
Losing muscle means you will have a weaker body, more prone to injury and things like osteoporosis, a slower metabolism, lower caloric needs (which also can leader to faster regain since you lowered your TDEE) and a host of other thing.
Also, carrying more muscle doesn't mean you are going to be bodybuilder jacked. Those people grew substantial amounts of muscle over time. And no, more muscle doesn't damage cells. There is a reason why muscle is associated with a healthy body.
I'm not talking about getting to really low muscle levels though, just a normal amount for ones body type and size assuming a normal level of activity, carrying things/children, doing work around the home and garden, transporting oneself places etc. Your body isn't going to sacrifice muscle it uses until it absolutely has to.
Some rate of lean body mass (all things not fat mass) is normal. But without maintaining appropriate levels of protein, it will increase that rate of loss. Protein and resistance training can actually improve lean body mass, even during weight loss, pending there is an active stimulus and not cutting calories too aggressively.
Being overweight doesn't mean you are carrying a bunch of muscle anyways, especially considering you have done muscle crash diets (which means you probably lost some in the past); there is even a good probably you are lower than an equivalent person who hasn't crashed dieted in the past. Having said that, glucose and fats are primary fuel sources. And no your body won't just deplete muscle. But if you aren't creating more cells than you are losing (protein turnover), than you will end up losing muscle.
So if you want to be able to keep up with children as they grow (like I do), lift heavy bags of muscle and other gardening supplies, while reducing the chances of injury during those activities, than it's ideal to make an approach to counteract that.11 -
"Someone"? No idea. Someone who has the same level and type of activity? I would expect more but I couldn't quantify it.TavistockToad wrote: »
how much more muscle do you think you've got compared to someone who has never been obese?
Considering your diet history, I would think you would be lower than someone who hasn't crashed dieted. I am at the higher end of a BMI (almost overweight) at 16% body fat (male); at 10% body fat, I will be more towards the high end of a healthy weight. I have never crashed dieted and have been athletic my whole life.
Also, think long term. The more you do now to improve your body and get in good habits, the less issues you should have as you continue to age. I know a lot more people who have issues from being frail and weak, than I do from being fit and strong.16 -
Losing muscle means you will have a weaker body, more prone to injury and things like osteoporosis, a slower metabolism, lower caloric needs (which also can leader to faster regain since you lowered your TDEE) and a host of other thing.
Also, carrying more muscle doesn't mean you are going to be bodybuilder jacked. Those people grew substantial amounts of muscle over time. And no, more muscle doesn't damage cells. There is a reason why muscle is associated with a healthy body.
I'm not talking about getting to really low muscle levels though, just a normal amount for ones body type and size assuming a normal level of activity, carrying things/children, doing work around the home and garden, transporting oneself places etc. Your body isn't going to sacrifice muscle it uses until it absolutely has to.
Unfortunately, it will. It goes back to what you were told earlier about how your body can only burn so much fat per day. If your deficit is too aggressive, your body will then start to burn other tissues it 'thinks' don't need priority. Like muscle. P.S., your heart is a muscle.
Strength training can help you reduce the amount of muscle lost, and it will definitely help you look better as the weight drops off, but inevitably some muscle will drop.
And a personal anecdote: I've had two bladder surgeries in the last 5 months. After the first one, I was in the recovery room and they were giving me my first calories after about 16 hours fasting (which had been preceded by 12 hours on clear fluids and an enema...) I was lying on the cot and the nurse asked me to "Try to sit up," so it would be easier to crank up the bed behind me and I wouldn't choke on the apple juice. I did with minimal effort. And I remember thinking to myself, "From his tone of voice, I thought this was going to be harder, or it would hurt or something." The nurse looked at me and said, "Wow. You've got some good trunk muscles there!"
For the record, like many women, my belly is about the last place the fat runs from. I don't have visible abs or lats. I've still got a muffin top. But evidently, crunches and dead-bugs and planks, PLUS running a sensible deficit let me hold onto and strengthen what I have under that flab.14 -
"Someone"? No idea. Someone who has the same level and type of activity? I would expect more but I couldn't quantify it.TavistockToad wrote: »
how much more muscle do you think you've got compared to someone who has never been obese?
Considering your diet history, I would think you would be lower than someone who hasn't crashed dieted. I am at the higher end of a BMI (almost overweight) at 16% body fat (male); at 10% body fat, I will be more towards the high end of a healthy weight. I have never crashed dieted and have been athletic my whole life.
I never considered myself to have crash dieted. I did do atkins as a teenager but I got lots of protein on that.
I know I have very little upper body strength (carrying my kids about honestly kills me) and when I am thinner I probably will want to work on that because I'd like it to be less painful (although my neck not my arms kill the most at the moment because my son loves to sit on the handlebars of the buggy -while the other kid sits in it -and I have to stabilise him on there since the buggy is light and will just fall over if I don't apply constant and exact pressure - adjusting for his every movement. I swear an hour of walking around like that is murder on my neck/shoulders - but yeah lol, I think that's more because I'm not getting enough exercise than a protein deficiency.)9 -
OMAD is fine, although I'd have the same concerns psulemon did -- for me it wouldn't be possible to get in what I consider adequate vegetables or protein in just one meal. Others may prefer huger meals than I do and not have that issue, but I'd track those things to make sure. A single meal that is 2000 cal (or 1600) because it's lower nutrient foods mostly obviously is not the best for health longterm.
That is unrelated to the thread topic of rapid weight loss and fasting for two days, eating 1600 the rest, it seems to me. I'd say rapid weight loss can be okay under a doctor's supervision if you are extremely obese, but if one has a history of yo-yoing it seems counterproductive. If you like OMAD, why not experiment with that at a reasonable calorie amount (1600?) or some other kind of IF if you find it hard to get in adequate nutrients doing that (I'd agree Cron is a good way to track) and forget about trying to speed it along. Find something sustainable.4 -
You are bound to crash and burn if you attempt to fast too often and then not follow through with enough calories throughout the week. I agree with what others have said that OMAD is fine and it looks like that works for you which is great. Why don't you just stick to that instead of being harsher against your body with attempting to fast in between? You want a lifestyle change that you can adhere to and one that makes you happy. I know if I went two days without eating I would be very unhappy and lethargic.9
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I guess because I'm not unhappy and lethargic. Honestly I get a bit of an adrenaline rush from it. I can promise you, I am not a person who is harsh on myself - the second it gets difficult I will almost certainly cut it out, and probably before then just because my husband is iffy on the idea.etherealanwar wrote: »You are bound to crash and burn if you attempt to fast too often and then not follow through with enough calories throughout the week. I agree with what others have said that OMAD is fine and it looks like that works for you which is great. Why don't you just stick to that instead of being harsher against your body with attempting to fast in between? You want a lifestyle change that you can adhere to and one that makes you happy. I know if I went two days without eating I would be very unhappy and lethargic.9 -
OP, sounds like you're pretty well set in your ideas, so I'd just move along at this point. But to answer your original question...
There are generally 3 reasons why people (I) advise against "extreme" dieting (and to be clear, what you're talking about is much more along the lines of extreme dieting than it is careful and planned weight loss) -- People don't typically learn the things they need to learn to be successful long term (i.e. after the extreme diet ends). You're aware of this, so it's just a question of whether or not you can/will do it.
- Extreme diets don't typically improve people's perspective on eating, dieting, health, etc.
- Extreme diets typically come with some drawbacks/side effects. Minimally we're talking about things like an increase in loss of muscle. More concerning we're talking about things like yo-yo dieting, worsening relationships with food, eating disorders, etc. Whether or not any of those things matter to you is, well, up to you.
In most cases, the good doesn't outweigh the bad. But I guess that is ultimately up to the individual.20 -
I would say that "carefully planned" rapid weight loss could be OK.
What you're planning on doing isn't "carefully planned."
If you really intend to try to achieve rapid fat/weight loss, I'd suggest you peruse bodyrecomposition.com and look at Lyle's Rapid Fat Loss Protocol.9 -
"Someone"? No idea. Someone who has the same level and type of activity? I would expect more but I couldn't quantify it.TavistockToad wrote: »
how much more muscle do you think you've got compared to someone who has never been obese?
Considering your diet history, I would think you would be lower than someone who hasn't crashed dieted. I am at the higher end of a BMI (almost overweight) at 16% body fat (male); at 10% body fat, I will be more towards the high end of a healthy weight. I have never crashed dieted and have been athletic my whole life.
I never considered myself to have crash dieted. I did do atkins as a teenager but I got lots of protein on that.
I know I have very little upper body strength (carrying my kids about honestly kills me) and when I am thinner I probably will want to work on that because I'd like it to be less painful (although my neck not my arms kill the most at the moment because my son loves to sit on the handlebars of the buggy -while the other kid sits in it -and I have to stabilise him on there since the buggy is light and will just fall over if I don't apply constant and exact pressure - adjusting for his every movement. I swear an hour of walking around like that is murder on my neck/shoulders - but yeah lol, I think that's more because I'm not getting enough exercise than a protein deficiency.)
Why wait to get stronger and improve your issues before you are "skinny" enough to do it. Pains are often caused by being obese with very weak muscles. Almost all of my pains went away after I started to train (except for my tendinitis but I am still working that one and did OT for it). I no longer get knee pains (tore my MCL playing ice hockey) since I started building the muscles in my legs. Every day practicality has improved, even if it's just playing with my kids, moving furniture, or taking in the groceries. So yea, part of your issues are weak muscles, but protein improves muscle recovery, builds muscles and allows for greater strength gains.
So it's not an either or thing... it's a total picture.
Also, when you are maintain your muscle, that means you will have greater body fat % reductions quicker, which means you will get to a more ideal body weight and image quicker. And I can't tell you how many people I have worked with to correct the issues caused by their dieting practices (similar to yours or the typical cardio queen mentality). And I will say, it's a lot harder to rebuild what you lost, than maintaining what you have. But if you are ok with potentially, prolonging this because you don't think it will cause issues, then it's ok. You would have to live with this consequences.14 -
"Someone"? No idea. Someone who has the same level and type of activity? I would expect more but I couldn't quantify it.TavistockToad wrote: »
how much more muscle do you think you've got compared to someone who has never been obese?
Considering your diet history, I would think you would be lower than someone who hasn't crashed dieted. I am at the higher end of a BMI (almost overweight) at 16% body fat (male); at 10% body fat, I will be more towards the high end of a healthy weight. I have never crashed dieted and have been athletic my whole life.
I never considered myself to have crash dieted. I did do atkins as a teenager but I got lots of protein on that.
I know I have very little upper body strength (carrying my kids about honestly kills me) and when I am thinner I probably will want to work on that because I'd like it to be less painful (although my neck not my arms kill the most at the moment because my son loves to sit on the handlebars of the buggy -while the other kid sits in it -and I have to stabilise him on there since the buggy is light and will just fall over if I don't apply constant and exact pressure - adjusting for his every movement. I swear an hour of walking around like that is murder on my neck/shoulders - but yeah lol, I think that's more because I'm not getting enough exercise than a protein deficiency.)
You can work on improving muscle quality now. Losing weight will certainly help with mobility however instead of getting weaker in strength you have the ability to make your quality of life better now in instead of waiting till you are thinner.
If your husband is not keen on this idea, hopefully sooner than later you will eliminate this idea all together and work on 'healthy' weight loss and integrate exercise as part of your 'longer term' big picture.11 -
Because when I am thinner it will be easier because I won't be working against my own fat as much. My cardiovascular fitness is awful as well which makes it hard to exercise efficiently. And for a totally other un-weight related reason - I don't feel confident crafting an exercise plan that works on my own, which means I need professional help to do it and that costs money which I don't have to spend right now, in fact thats one of the other reasons I am liking this WOE - spending way less money on food/can afford higher welfare produce from the food budget - I feel like if I can't afford high welfare animal products I should cut them out but I do love them.
Why wait to get stronger and improve your issues before you are "skinny" enough to do it.Also, when you are maintain your muscle, that means you will have greater body fat % reductions quicker, which means you will get to a more ideal body weight and image quicker. And I can't tell you how many people I have worked with to correct the issues caused by their dieting practices (similar to yours or the typical cardio queen mentality). And I will say, it's a lot harder to rebuild what you lost, than maintaining what you have. But if you are ok with potentially, prolonging this because you don't think it will cause issues, then it's ok. You would have to live with this consequences.12 -
Because when I am thinner it will be easier because I won't be working against my own fat as much. My cardiovascular fitness is awful as well which makes it hard to exercise efficiently. And for a totally other un-weight related reason - I don't feel confident crafting an exercise plan that works on my own, which means I need professional help to do it and that costs money which I don't have to spend right now, in fact thats one of the other reasons I am liking this WOE - spending way less money on food/can afford higher welfare produce from the food budget - I feel like if I can't afford high welfare animal products I should cut them out but I do love them.
Why wait to get stronger and improve your issues before you are "skinny" enough to do it.Also, when you are maintain your muscle, that means you will have greater body fat % reductions quicker, which means you will get to a more ideal body weight and image quicker. And I can't tell you how many people I have worked with to correct the issues caused by their dieting practices (similar to yours or the typical cardio queen mentality). And I will say, it's a lot harder to rebuild what you lost, than maintaining what you have. But if you are ok with potentially, prolonging this because you don't think it will cause issues, then it's ok. You would have to live with this consequences.
walk for exercise18 -
You should really check out the success stories section. What most are saying is the truth and there are members who were in your exact shoes to prove it. There are a lot of members who have achieved the amount of loss you are looking for through reasonable calorie tracking. You've asked a question and very knowledgeable people are answering and your basically arguing and dismissing it. You can listen and do this the right way or not and most likely end up exactly where you are now. It's science...17
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Sometimes the only way to learn is to do. OP, sounds like that's where you're at. Do what you're going to do, what you're willing to do and see how it goes. Adjust as needed.9
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Because when I am thinner it will be easier because I won't be working against my own fat as much. My cardiovascular fitness is awful as well which makes it hard to exercise efficiently. And for a totally other un-weight related reason - I don't feel confident crafting an exercise plan that works on my own, which means I need professional help to do it and that costs money which I don't have to spend right now, in fact thats one of the other reasons I am liking this WOE - spending way less money on food/can afford higher welfare produce from the food budget - I feel like if I can't afford high welfare animal products I should cut them out but I do love them.
Why wait to get stronger and improve your issues before you are "skinny" enough to do it.Also, when you are maintain your muscle, that means you will have greater body fat % reductions quicker, which means you will get to a more ideal body weight and image quicker. And I can't tell you how many people I have worked with to correct the issues caused by their dieting practices (similar to yours or the typical cardio queen mentality). And I will say, it's a lot harder to rebuild what you lost, than maintaining what you have. But if you are ok with potentially, prolonging this because you don't think it will cause issues, then it's ok. You would have to live with this consequences.
Exercise is something you build over time. And its something you should start out slow.
Start out with walking, you can pick up some heavier objects in your home and work your muscles. There are plenty of free videos and programs available on line that you can do using body weight exercises. As I stated, losing weight will help you with mobility but there is plenty you can do now.
If you choose to want to be stronger you can, all of these things are choices.14 -
Because when I am thinner it will be easier because I won't be working against my own fat as much. My cardiovascular fitness is awful as well which makes it hard to exercise efficiently. And for a totally other un-weight related reason - I don't feel confident crafting an exercise plan that works on my own, which means I need professional help to do it and that costs money which I don't have to spend right now, in fact thats one of the other reasons I am liking this WOE - spending way less money on food/can afford higher welfare produce from the food budget - I feel like if I can't afford high welfare animal products I should cut them out but I do love them.
Why wait to get stronger and improve your issues before you are "skinny" enough to do it.Also, when you are maintain your muscle, that means you will have greater body fat % reductions quicker, which means you will get to a more ideal body weight and image quicker. And I can't tell you how many people I have worked with to correct the issues caused by their dieting practices (similar to yours or the typical cardio queen mentality). And I will say, it's a lot harder to rebuild what you lost, than maintaining what you have. But if you are ok with potentially, prolonging this because you don't think it will cause issues, then it's ok. You would have to live with this consequences.
It's actually quiet the opposite of what you believe. Including a combination of cardio and resistance training will improve short and long term health, improve fat loss, and will reduce your current pains caused by being so weak.
Also, we live in an age where you have tons of free resources where you don't have to craft anything. For resisntance trainng programs, you can use: https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10332083/which-lifting-program-is-the-best-for-you/p1 or go to www.fitnessblender.com for free videos. There is everything from body weight, free weight, and full lifting routines in that link. There are several books in there as well if you want to develop knowledge.
For cardio, you can use fitnesblender, go for walks, bike ride, run, etc.. Its just about finding something you are interested in.
I will say, I have never met a person who was mad they started lifting early. But I have met a ton of people who are mad they didn't start earlier because they thought like you did.24 -
OP, maybe I missed it somewhere or am confused but is your plan to eat nothing for 2 days and then to eat at maintenance on the 3rd day and to continue this pattern until you get to a normal BMI? Have you tried complete fasting for 2 days?1
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As others are also noticing, you seem to be looking for validation rather than advice. What you’re suggesting isn’t going to kill you, so go for it. People are advising you that it’s probably not going work because they know better. Going without food for days at a time is not something overweight people are typically good at. If we were, we wouldn’t be overweight in the first place. But again, it’s not going to kill you. Good luck, I’ll look forward to seeing your results10
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TavistockToad wrote: »walk for exercise
I don't know if walking counts as exercise really, it's not exactly hard work. Since having the kids I am only averaging 6000 steps a day (when carrying my phone - so outside, I don't carry it round in the house - when I used to have a wrist tracker I got 10-15k average, usually with one 30-35k day in there, in a hilly area, but that was before kids - my son can't walk far and carrying him is - as I mentioned - quite difficult).
I am trying to get out more in the evenings when the kids are in bed but I feel super guilty because it means my husband is stuck alone at home feeling lonely. Like last night I went out for a walk but I rushed home because I felt bad for him.
I really miss it though, my husband and I loved walking before we had kids, but the cost/logistics of getting childcare or the difficulty of carrying children for miles is hard to work with. I'd really like to build up to going mountaineering one day, I am genuinely sad at how trapped in the local area having kids makes us - you add in having to be home for nap time (so no whole days out just walking around anymore) - a bus or train to anywhere interesting to walk is an hour in itself so it's 2hrs round trip, getting him and the baby fed, dressed, ready etc is another 2hrs, at best you get a measly hour walk. We used to go for 6hrs or so. It's the one thing I regret about having kids - but I know once they're older and we build up some stamina we'll be able to get back into it (although I plan to have more so who knows when everything will fall into place...)19 -
tracybear86 wrote: »OP, maybe I missed it somewhere or am confused but is your plan to eat nothing for 2 days and then to eat at maintenance on the 3rd day and to continue this pattern until you get to a normal BMI? Have you tried complete fasting for 2 days?
1600 cals isn't maintenance for OP4 -
TavistockToad wrote: »tracybear86 wrote: »OP, maybe I missed it somewhere or am confused but is your plan to eat nothing for 2 days and then to eat at maintenance on the 3rd day and to continue this pattern until you get to a normal BMI? Have you tried complete fasting for 2 days?
1600 cals isn't maintenance for OP
My main goal was to see if OP was planning to repeat this pattern until they got to a normal BMI or if they were just looking to "kick start" their weight loss with a fast.2 -
tracybear86 wrote: »OP, maybe I missed it somewhere or am confused but is your plan to eat nothing for 2 days and then to eat at maintenance on the 3rd day and to continue this pattern until you get to a normal BMI? Have you tried complete fasting for 2 days?
Not as regular as that, just doing the 2 day fasts from time to time.
Today I finish one, I've done it a couple of times now.
1600kcal isn't my current maintenance but it will be once I am a normal weight.
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Because when I am thinner it will be easier because I won't be working against my own fat as much. My cardiovascular fitness is awful as well which makes it hard to exercise efficiently. And for a totally other un-weight related reason - I don't feel confident crafting an exercise plan that works on my own, which means I need professional help to do it and that costs money which I don't have to spend right now, in fact thats one of the other reasons I am liking this WOE - spending way less money on food/can afford higher welfare produce from the food budget - I feel like if I can't afford high welfare animal products I should cut them out but I do love them.
Why wait to get stronger and improve your issues before you are "skinny" enough to do it.Also, when you are maintain your muscle, that means you will have greater body fat % reductions quicker, which means you will get to a more ideal body weight and image quicker. And I can't tell you how many people I have worked with to correct the issues caused by their dieting practices (similar to yours or the typical cardio queen mentality). And I will say, it's a lot harder to rebuild what you lost, than maintaining what you have. But if you are ok with potentially, prolonging this because you don't think it will cause issues, then it's ok. You would have to live with this consequences.
Look. You made your own choices that got you to this weight. You're still going to be fighting against your bad decision making.
Eat at a reasonable deficit. Move more. If you don't want to move more, eat less.
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