Why is (carefully planned) rapid weight loss bad?
Replies
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I am losing weight fine...Obviously walking burns calories but its not going to improve cardiovascular fitness unless your baseline is so bad that walking is actually effort.
But you don't need to improve cardiovascular fitness to lose weight. Losing weight is a matter of burning more calories than you consume. Walking helps you burn more calories.
You've got it all worked out so why start this thread at all?41 -
Good grief, you are all over the place! Why ask a question if you are just going to shoot down every single answer you get? You asked a question and received some very solid answers, yet you keep going around in nonsensical circles.
Good luck on whatever your journey is!
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I've skimmed through the thread, but forgive me if I've missed something.
OP, if you are comfortable doing OMAD, is there a reason you can't do this every day and be done with it (at the correct calorie level)? Why throw in the added element of completely fasting for 2 days? Do you really understand what people are telling you that there is a limit to how much body fat a person's body can burn in one day, regardless of their current "fat stores"?10 -
Because I want to know if it's harmful to health for someone fat to run at a high deficit/do extended fasts?TavistockToad wrote: »
I am losing weight fine...Obviously walking burns calories but its not going to improve cardiovascular fitness unless your baseline is so bad that walking is actually effort.
But you don't need to improve cardiovascular fitness to lose weight. Losing weight is a matter of burning more calories than you consume. Walking helps you burn more calories.
You've got it all worked out so why start this thread at all?
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TavistockToad wrote: »walk for exercise
I don't know if walking counts as exercise really, it's not exactly hard work. Since having the kids I am only averaging 6000 steps a day (when carrying my phone - so outside, I don't carry it round in the house - when I used to have a wrist tracker I got 10-15k average, usually with one 30-35k day in there, in a hilly area, but that was before kids - my son can't walk far and carrying him is - as I mentioned - quite difficult).
I am trying to get out more in the evenings when the kids are in bed but I feel super guilty because it means my husband is stuck alone at home feeling lonely. Like last night I went out for a walk but I rushed home because I felt bad for him.
I really miss it though, my husband and I loved walking before we had kids, but the cost/logistics of getting childcare or the difficulty of carrying children for miles is hard to work with. I'd really like to build up to going mountaineering one day, I am genuinely sad at how trapped in the local area having kids makes us - you add in having to be home for nap time (so no whole days out just walking around anymore) - a bus or train to anywhere interesting to walk is an hour in itself so it's 2hrs round trip, getting him and the baby fed, dressed, ready etc is another 2hrs, at best you get a measly hour walk. We used to go for 6hrs or so. It's the one thing I regret about having kids - but I know once they're older and we build up some stamina we'll be able to get back into it (although I plan to have more so who knows when everything will fall into place...)
If course walking is exercise and it's one of the best ones you can do for cardiovascular health. Also, stop making excuses-your husband will survive for 30 minutes while you go on a walk. Or get up early and walk before he even wakes up (I'm out walking at 5am some days and lots of my neighbors are out walking then too). And why can't you put your kids in a stroller and walk with them? Seriously, you're making this way to complicated.9 -
Because I want to know if it's harmful to health for someone fat to run at a high deficit/do extended fasts?TavistockToad wrote: »
I am losing weight fine...Obviously walking burns calories but its not going to improve cardiovascular fitness unless your baseline is so bad that walking is actually effort.
But you don't need to improve cardiovascular fitness to lose weight. Losing weight is a matter of burning more calories than you consume. Walking helps you burn more calories.
You've got it all worked out so why start this thread at all?
Yet you pooh poohed all the answers...29 -
Because I want to know if it's harmful to health for someone fat to run at a high deficit/do extended fasts?TavistockToad wrote: »
I am losing weight fine...Obviously walking burns calories but its not going to improve cardiovascular fitness unless your baseline is so bad that walking is actually effort.
But you don't need to improve cardiovascular fitness to lose weight. Losing weight is a matter of burning more calories than you consume. Walking helps you burn more calories.
You've got it all worked out so why start this thread at all?
And everyone told you it was.
Are we done?26 -
Because I want to know if it's harmful to health for someone fat to run at a high deficit/do extended fasts?TavistockToad wrote: »
I am losing weight fine...Obviously walking burns calories but its not going to improve cardiovascular fitness unless your baseline is so bad that walking is actually effort.
But you don't need to improve cardiovascular fitness to lose weight. Losing weight is a matter of burning more calories than you consume. Walking helps you burn more calories.
You've got it all worked out so why start this thread at all?
harmful in what sense?
There are a number of likely negative side effects (which have been covered pretty thoroughly)... but only you can decide if those side effects matter more than the increased rate of weight loss.
No one is going to tell you it's fine to do. At best, you'll get an, "it's ok, but be careful of ________" advice. If you're waiting for someone to day it's fine, don't hold your breath.11 -
Obviously walking burns calories but its not going to improve cardiovascular fitness unless your baseline is so bad that walking is actually effort.
Absolutely positively incorrect. My resting heart rate is currently in the "athlete" category on the charts. I used to get winded trotting up a flight of stairs.11 -
I've skimmed through the thread, but forgive me if I've missed something.
OP, if you are comfortable doing OMAD, is there a reason you can't do this every day and be done with it (at the correct calorie level)? Why throw in the added element of completely fasting for 2 days? Do you really understand what people are telling you that there is a limit to how much body fat a person's body can burn in one day, regardless of their current "fat stores"?
Honestly I probably will make OMAD the main "everyday" plan (with 16:8 on weekends actually) but I also want to do some extended fasts in there, just for the fun of it and the challenge mostly, assuming it can't hurt.
And no... I do not currently believe that we can't burn sufficient fat to support our metabolic needs during fasting, I would like to see evidence for that.17 -
Obviously walking burns calories but its not going to improve cardiovascular fitness unless your baseline is so bad that walking is actually effort.
I am a competitive racewalker. I can assure you that walking is excellent for cardiovascular fitness. In my hard hour-long workout this morning, my H.R. was in the "red zone for 21 minutes and in the "cardio" zone for 38 minutes.
The advantage with walking is that you can start slow and increase speed and distance as fitness improves will putting far less stress on your joints.14 -
Because I want to know if it's harmful to health for someone fat to run at a high deficit/do extended fasts?TavistockToad wrote: »
I am losing weight fine...Obviously walking burns calories but its not going to improve cardiovascular fitness unless your baseline is so bad that walking is actually effort.
But you don't need to improve cardiovascular fitness to lose weight. Losing weight is a matter of burning more calories than you consume. Walking helps you burn more calories.
You've got it all worked out so why start this thread at all?
Obviously it depends on how long you do that, how high your deficit is, whether you ever learn to eat properly, etc. The only other thing I can add is don't think that what you are feeling now (fine with the fasting) is necessarily going to last. It's easy to be on a weight loss high when you first start. People get very gung ho when they start anything new--diet, exercise, religion, crafting, bagpipe playing. Once you're deep into it you may find that an extreme deficit or fasting is not as easy as it is now and at that point you need to be flexible enough to change your method.10 -
StellaClaireE wrote: »
I have a buggy, that's the same thing right. The almost 2 year old sits on the handlebars and the 3 month old sits in the seat.StellaClaireE wrote: »Do you have a stroller for the kiddos? Pushing a stroller for walks is deff a good option. Mine is 2 1/2 now and riding a bike, which is nice because I have to walk at a fairly descent pace to keep up with her.
I'd love to get the almost 2 year old onto a bike omg! It can be done by 2 and a half?, omg omg, that would be awesome??? Man I had stabilisers on my bike till I was 8!
Sounds like a buggy is the same thing, take the kiddos on more walks, you'll see a difference. She loved going for walks in her stroller when she was younger. She still has training wheels(stabilizers I assume) on her bike but I have to walk at a descent pace to keep up with her. Granted she is 2 and gets distracted easily and we stop because she has to pick up a stick or a rock or just talk about the sky...
Point is though that changes can be made to get where you want to be, you just have to make up your mind and do it, you can make excuses or just do it. Hell I've been making excuses the last 3.5 years and decided to just f*&king do it. It doesn't take more than a week or so to feel it, to feel better, a little stronger, a little more motivated etc. It's not really about the scale, it's how you feel. Every day try to be better than yesterday, if it doesn't happen try again the next day.
"Get uncomfortable being uncomfortable.That's how you break the plateau and reach the next level"
I do try and go on 2 walks a day with them, but that's weather permitting (rain etc) and also sometimes I have stuff I need to get done - if we go on 2 walks in a day, between naps and feeding them that's the whole day gone ya know.
But a walk with a toddler is like you said, stopping every single bloody meter to look at another daisy lol. I prefer to walk fast so it's super frustrating but I am sure it's good for them at least.11 -
TavistockToad wrote: »walk for exercise
I don't know if walking counts as exercise really, it's not exactly hard work. Since having the kids I am only averaging 6000 steps a day (when carrying my phone - so outside, I don't carry it round in the house - when I used to have a wrist tracker I got 10-15k average, usually with one 30-35k day in there, in a hilly area, but that was before kids - my son can't walk far and carrying him is - as I mentioned - quite difficult).
I am trying to get out more in the evenings when the kids are in bed but I feel super guilty because it means my husband is stuck alone at home feeling lonely. Like last night I went out for a walk but I rushed home because I felt bad for him.
I really miss it though, my husband and I loved walking before we had kids, but the cost/logistics of getting childcare or the difficulty of carrying children for miles is hard to work with. I'd really like to build up to going mountaineering one day, I am genuinely sad at how trapped in the local area having kids makes us - you add in having to be home for nap time (so no whole days out just walking around anymore) - a bus or train to anywhere interesting to walk is an hour in itself so it's 2hrs round trip, getting him and the baby fed, dressed, ready etc is another 2hrs, at best you get a measly hour walk. We used to go for 6hrs or so. It's the one thing I regret about having kids - but I know once they're older and we build up some stamina we'll be able to get back into it (although I plan to have more so who knows when everything will fall into place...)
Wow... because you can't go for a 6 hour walk, you won't walk at all? Just wow...
I guess all of us with kids are just doomed
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TavistockToad wrote: »TavistockToad wrote: »walk for exercise
I don't know if walking counts as exercise really, it's not exactly hard work. Since having the kids I am only averaging 6000 steps a day (when carrying my phone - so outside, I don't carry it round in the house - when I used to have a wrist tracker I got 10-15k average, usually with one 30-35k day in there, in a hilly area, but that was before kids - my son can't walk far and carrying him is - as I mentioned - quite difficult).
I am trying to get out more in the evenings when the kids are in bed but I feel super guilty because it means my husband is stuck alone at home feeling lonely. Like last night I went out for a walk but I rushed home because I felt bad for him.
I really miss it though, my husband and I loved walking before we had kids, but the cost/logistics of getting childcare or the difficulty of carrying children for miles is hard to work with. I'd really like to build up to going mountaineering one day, I am genuinely sad at how trapped in the local area having kids makes us - you add in having to be home for nap time (so no whole days out just walking around anymore) - a bus or train to anywhere interesting to walk is an hour in itself so it's 2hrs round trip, getting him and the baby fed, dressed, ready etc is another 2hrs, at best you get a measly hour walk. We used to go for 6hrs or so. It's the one thing I regret about having kids - but I know once they're older and we build up some stamina we'll be able to get back into it (although I plan to have more so who knows when everything will fall into place...)
It does count as exercise. You stated above your cardiovascular fitness is awful and its hard to exercise efficiently, this is something that can help you improve that and build on that over time.
I always felt like if you don't get your breathing rate up/some lung discomfort you're not exercising really?
lung discomfort!? :huh:
Lol. Maybe smoke a Lucky Strike or two to get that extra-good workout! OP clearly has a LOT to learn about health and fitness.
I’ve found that once you start working a reasonable strategy, and spend some time on it, all the lame excuses regarding exercise fall away. I find it amusing, and maybe a little embarrassing, to think back about the excuses and nutty rationalizing I personally engaged in. “I can’t eat those foods”, “I’m too fat to exercise”, “I don’t have the right equipment to work out”, “I can’t do any of these programs”, “I can’t afford healthy food”, etc. etc. etc. All I was really saying was “It’s not my fault I’m fat.There’s nothing I can do about it.”
I know it's my fault I am fat and I *AM* doing something about it.
Taking the easy way out by threatening to fast isn't doing anything about it. It's just continuing your laziness and bad decision making.22 -
When did I say I don't walk. I take 2 short walks with my kids on days when it's not raining and I don't have a backlog of housework. I regularly go out for an hour or two walk on weekends with my husband and kids. It takes me an hour to walk to church (and half an hour back because downhill that way) with the buggy. I can't drive so any shopping I do of course requires walking unless I do it online as do all out of house errands. But it's not fun the way going up a hill in the countryside is fun and I miss doing that.
Wow... because you can't go for a 6 hour walk, you won't walk at all? Just wow...5 -
Because I want to know if it's harmful to health for someone fat to run at a high deficit/do extended fasts?TavistockToad wrote: »
I am losing weight fine...Obviously walking burns calories but its not going to improve cardiovascular fitness unless your baseline is so bad that walking is actually effort.
But you don't need to improve cardiovascular fitness to lose weight. Losing weight is a matter of burning more calories than you consume. Walking helps you burn more calories.
You've got it all worked out so why start this thread at all?
And everyone has said "YES".22 -
It sounds like you've already decided what you're going to do, you're just looking for reinforcement, which you likely won't find here. Carry on with whatever you want to do.15
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collectingblues wrote: »
Taking the easy way out by threatening to fast isn't doing anything about it. It's just continuing your laziness and bad decision making.
Threatening? I already did it, I will do it again Friday. I might do it again in future depending how much it freaks out my husband (I don't like freaking him out).
What is wrong with "easy"? Surely I should make it as easy as possible to avoid the risk of giving up?
And if I am losing weight I am getting less fat right? In 2 years I will have a normal BMI, I promise.18 -
collectingblues wrote: »
Taking the easy way out by threatening to fast isn't doing anything about it. It's just continuing your laziness and bad decision making.
Threatening? I already did it, I will do it again Friday. I might do it again in future depending how much it freaks out my husband (I don't like freaking him out).
What is wrong with "easy"? Surely I should make it as easy as possible to avoid the risk of giving up?
And if I am losing weight I am getting less fat right? In 2 years I will have a normal BMI, I promise.
Fine. Keep on making bad decisions.
You only have yourself to blame for the outcomes.22 -
But I wanted evidence. The best I got was some stuff about how we need more protein, which I've read contrasting stuff about (admittedly from 80/10/10ers). Nothing to back up the claims that we can't burn more than 100g of body fat a day or anything.mburgess458 wrote: »
Because I want to know if it's harmful to health for someone fat to run at a high deficit/do extended fasts?TavistockToad wrote: »
I am losing weight fine...Obviously walking burns calories but its not going to improve cardiovascular fitness unless your baseline is so bad that walking is actually effort.
But you don't need to improve cardiovascular fitness to lose weight. Losing weight is a matter of burning more calories than you consume. Walking helps you burn more calories.
You've got it all worked out so why start this thread at all?
And everyone has said "YES".13 -
But I wanted evidence. The best I got was some stuff about how we need more protein, which I've read contrasting stuff about (admittedly from 80/10/10ers). Nothing to back up the claims that we can't burn more than 100g of body fat a day or anything.mburgess458 wrote: »
Because I want to know if it's harmful to health for someone fat to run at a high deficit/do extended fasts?TavistockToad wrote: »
I am losing weight fine...Obviously walking burns calories but its not going to improve cardiovascular fitness unless your baseline is so bad that walking is actually effort.
But you don't need to improve cardiovascular fitness to lose weight. Losing weight is a matter of burning more calories than you consume. Walking helps you burn more calories.
You've got it all worked out so why start this thread at all?
And everyone has said "YES".
The evidence is that no experts recommend your approach. None. Why do you need a link to a study telling you it is a bad idea? Thousands of people make a living helping people try to lose weight. There are tons of different approaches they recommend... IF versus Keto versus Paleo versus calorie counting versus low fat versus..... If your approach worked and wasn't a horrible idea there would be experts pushing it.16 -
But I wanted evidence. The best I got was some stuff about how we need more protein, which I've read contrasting stuff about (admittedly from 80/10/10ers). Nothing to back up the claims that we can't burn more than 100g of body fat a day or anything.mburgess458 wrote: »
Because I want to know if it's harmful to health for someone fat to run at a high deficit/do extended fasts?TavistockToad wrote: »
I am losing weight fine...Obviously walking burns calories but its not going to improve cardiovascular fitness unless your baseline is so bad that walking is actually effort.
But you don't need to improve cardiovascular fitness to lose weight. Losing weight is a matter of burning more calories than you consume. Walking helps you burn more calories.
You've got it all worked out so why start this thread at all?
And everyone has said "YES".
There are a number of people on the site well versed in studies and journals... I'm sure they have some links readily at hand. Personally, I read and research to educate myself, not to have links on hand to prove I'm right in silly forum threads.
If you want evidence, either be patient, or (I can't believe I'm saying this), start a new thread asking for specifically that. The science people may be avoiding this thread due to the dumpster fire it's become.21 -
mburgess458 wrote: »
But I wanted evidence. The best I got was some stuff about how we need more protein, which I've read contrasting stuff about (admittedly from 80/10/10ers). Nothing to back up the claims that we can't burn more than 100g of body fat a day or anything.mburgess458 wrote: »
Because I want to know if it's harmful to health for someone fat to run at a high deficit/do extended fasts?TavistockToad wrote: »
I am losing weight fine...Obviously walking burns calories but its not going to improve cardiovascular fitness unless your baseline is so bad that walking is actually effort.
But you don't need to improve cardiovascular fitness to lose weight. Losing weight is a matter of burning more calories than you consume. Walking helps you burn more calories.
You've got it all worked out so why start this thread at all?
And everyone has said "YES".
The evidence is that no experts recommend your approach. None. Why do you need a link to a study telling you it is a bad idea? Thousands of people make a living helping people try to lose weight. There are tons of different approaches they recommend... IF versus Keto versus Paleo versus calorie counting versus low fat versus..... If your approach worked and wasn't a horrible idea there would be experts pushing it.
I think it's funny that she needs evidence from us, but seems willing to believe the silliest of ideas from where ever these other sources are.31 -
I do try and go on 2 walks a day with them, but that's weather permitting (rain etc) and also sometimes I have stuff I need to get done - if we go on 2 walks in a day, between naps and feeding them that's the whole day gone ya know.
But a walk with a toddler is like you said, stopping every single bloody meter to look at another daisy lol. I prefer to walk fast so it's super frustrating but I am sure it's good for them at least.
I get that but regardless its good for you too, who cares how many times you stop...you're doing it. That is the whole point. Look you either want or not, you do it or make excuses. I work 8.5 hr days, keep up with my house(for the most part), keep up with my 2.5 year old, cook dinners most every night and meal plan...rinse and repeat everyday now. When I didn't, I fell off the wagon. I've found time to do 40 mins of hard cardio in the am before work and then either walk/run with the little one (we just came out of winter weather) or do another 25 mins of cardio or yoga in the evening after dinner. It's not easy, I'm tired by 9 most nights now and sometimes fall asleep on the couch. BUT I WANT IT AND I WANT IT BAD. My SO and I don't spend a ton of time together on the weeknights because of his schedule anyway but I would never feel bad for getting my workout in and leaving him on the couch and he doesn't care either. We can spend time on the weekends. It's life. You seem nice and I don't want to be so blunt but it seems all you are doing to any ones suggestions is making excuses(I get it, it did it for the last 3yrs). You just got so much great info that if you would just do it, you'd be surprised of the results.
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Because I want to know if it's harmful to health for someone fat to run at a high deficit/do extended fasts?TavistockToad wrote: »
I am losing weight fine...Obviously walking burns calories but its not going to improve cardiovascular fitness unless your baseline is so bad that walking is actually effort.
But you don't need to improve cardiovascular fitness to lose weight. Losing weight is a matter of burning more calories than you consume. Walking helps you burn more calories.
You've got it all worked out so why start this thread at all?
People have given you plenty of reasons why it’s not advisable - adverse physical effects as well as not supporting a healthy long term focus on weight loss. Isn’t your mental health, and trying to undo all those years of whatever urges put you on the yo yo diets, important too? Setting up a program that continues to perpetuate extreme cycles of restriction, and your dismissal of what people are telling you about the benefits of moderate exercise like daily walking suggests that your overall mental outlook on diet, health and weight loss is not good. Not to mention you said your husband isn’t on board, you have young children but modeling an extreme approach to weight loss where you engage in drastic approaches to achieve a goal - is also something I don’t think is healthy for your family dynamic.
So yes, I believe it is harmful in a lot of ways to engage in the approach you are inquiring about but you seem determined to proceed no matter what anyone says to you.15 -
At the moment when I break a fast it's around 5pm, I eat my meal, I feel good, full, satisfied, put kids to bed, hang out with husband for a few hours then go to sleep still full. It's amazing. When I was trying to just stick to a calorie limit I felt like I wanted to snack all day long, but this way I can say, I am not eating today/till 5pm/after 6pm depending on the day and I feel fine with that. Surely yo-yo dieting happens when it *doesn't* feel manageable, when you feel deprived all the time and hungry and eventually say "screw this I am eating what I want!"
Hi, I don't understand something: what you're doing right now, eating only after 5pm, seems to be working for you, so why are you looking for other patterns? It is not the same as not eating at all for two days, so why are you treating them as if they were? I've seen a lot of posts on the forum of people who eat just like that, I think is called intermittent fasting, why don't you look it up? I think it may be best for you, if you are "triggered" by many little meals, to eat just once a day, so why not?
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I just typed "risk of fasting" on google and there are a lot of results, I'll just past here the link to one article:
https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/295914.php
It says that intermittent fasting can be good, but there are also some risks, so maybe complete fasting is not advisable. Here it says: " People who fast commonly experience dehydration, largely because their body is not getting any fluid from food. As such, it is recommended that during Ramadan, Muslims consume plenty of water prior to fasting periods. Other individuals following fasting diets should ensure they are properly hydrated during fasting periods.
If you are used to having breakfast, lunch, dinner and snacks in between, fasting periods can be a major challenge. As such, fasting can increase stress levels and disrupt sleep. Dehydration, hunger or lack of sleep during a fasting period can also lead to headaches.
Fasting can also cause heartburn; lack of food leads to a reduction in stomach acid, which digests food and destroys bacteria. But smelling food or even thinking about it during fasting periods can trigger the brain into telling the stomach to produce more acid, leading to heartburn.
While many nutritionists claim intermittent fasting is a good way to lose weight, some health professionals believe such a diet is ineffective for long-term weight loss."6 -
My life is not an evidence-based study, but a personal example you can consider or not. I decided to lose weight quickly. I followed MFP, but set my rate of loss at 2 pounds per week. I actually lost 2 to 2.5 pounds per week, I was so enthusiastic about counting calories and exercising (more walks, starting to run, Zumba, yoga). I was a maniac. Here was the long-term result: I lost muscle. There was still plenty of fat to burn, and to me I don't need to understand the science completely because I can look at my body and see the results. My body chose to burn muscle, too. My bicep/tricep areas are relatively limp and pocked with holes where the muscle used to be. Not exactly the look I was going for. I'm still trying to regain what muscle I used to have. Sometimes it's just a few pushups using the kitchen counter while I'm waiting for water to boil.
Here's another surprise: I started to lose my hair. I was eating "properly" - eggs, cheese, avocados, tons of vegetables, chicken, lean meats, fish, all that good stuff. BUT something wasn't apparently right nutrition-wise. Even months after I increased my calorie intake, my hair continued to fall out.
Here's another example involving my good friend. She is extremely thin after years of dieting but no exercising. Four days ago she tripped on a crack in a sidewalk and fell. She fractured and dislocated one shoulder, and fractured her knee cap. She had surgery yesterday on the knee. She was told that she has osteoporosis, which made everything about her bone breakage worse. She was told that her lack of bone density could be related to not doing weight-bearing exercise.
So, for a recap: (1) rapid weight loss is not everything one might hope. There are real drawbacks. (2) It would make some sense to do some exercise while you lose weight to retain muscle and increase bone strength. As overweight people have more weight to push around, you will definitely get some benefit by starting now with pushups, bicep curls, etc. etc. Don't wait to reach your goal weight to exercise!! Start it now.
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tracybear86 wrote: »OP, maybe I missed it somewhere or am confused but is your plan to eat nothing for 2 days and then to eat at maintenance on the 3rd day and to continue this pattern until you get to a normal BMI? Have you tried complete fasting for 2 days?
Not as regular as that, just doing the 2 day fasts from time to time.
Today I finish one, I've done it a couple of times now.
1600kcal isn't my current maintenance but it will be once I am a normal weight.
This doesn't give the impression of a well planned diet. What is your actual plan? How many calories will you average per week? How much of a deficit?
It sounds a bit like you're chasing the euphoria that some people feel with fasting rather than following a structured diet.14
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