Advanced topic about the body and calories
SugarAndSugar
Posts: 84 Member
So as we all know, the body doesnt reset its calorie needs every 24 hours to 0. So then comes intermittent fasting or the one meal a day diet. When your body indulges that large amount of calories since you only had about 200 calories from earlier that day, wouldnt your body be prone to storing some of that large meal calories as fat? Im asking because you can still be in a caloric deficit but will that one large meal along with the few hundred calories cause the body to gain fat?
Shorter words: will the body store some of the calories from the large meal in intermittent fasting as fat since youre eating so much at one time. (But at the end of the day youre in a deficit)
Shorter words: will the body store some of the calories from the large meal in intermittent fasting as fat since youre eating so much at one time. (But at the end of the day youre in a deficit)
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Replies
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People seem to have the impression that burning fat vs storing fat is an either or proposition. In reality, the body burns fat when it needs more fuel and stores fat when it has excess fuel. If you are trying to lose weight, you hope that over time the burning outpaces the storing, but they can both happen on the same day.
But now I want to know, is it a last in, first out transaction?11 -
The body doesn’t anticipate. It reacts.15
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Hardly an "advanced topic". The body is continuously storing fat and burning fat, sugar, and glycogen as a person goes through the day.
Pick any arbitrary period of time, if the person expends more energy than they consume the net deficit comes out of the energy stores in the body. There are several types and the body uses all of them in varying proportions during the day.
The point is to sustain an energy deficit consistently over time to lose fat. If you try to micromanage the process you will fail.20 -
concordancia wrote: »People seem to have the impression that burning fat vs storing fat is an either or proposition. In reality, the body burns fat when it needs more fuel and stores fat when it has excess fuel. If you are trying to lose weight, you hope that over time the burning outpaces the storing, but they can both happen on the same day.
But now I want to know, is it a last in, first out transaction?
So i do IF and so at 1130 am i eat about 200 calories and at 3pm to 430 or 5pm i workout. Then around 530 i have usually 600-700 calories. Then around an hour or hour and half later i have dinner of 500 calories or somewhere around there. My deficit calories are 1700 so isnt that still meeting my cutting calories?5 -
For instance, I get the benefits of the Dawn Phenomenon. Around six in the morning after my evening fast my liver dumps it’s glucagon stores, giving me my highest sugar numbers first thing in the morning. My liver never figured out that I will feed it a fine break-fast. Every freaking day.10
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SugarAndSugar wrote: »concordancia wrote: »People seem to have the impression that burning fat vs storing fat is an either or proposition. In reality, the body burns fat when it needs more fuel and stores fat when it has excess fuel. If you are trying to lose weight, you hope that over time the burning outpaces the storing, but they can both happen on the same day.
But now I want to know, is it a last in, first out transaction?
So i do IF and so at 1130 am i eat about 200 calories and at 3pm to 430 or 5pm i workout. Then around 530 i have usually 600-700 calories. Then around an hour or hour and half later i have dinner of 500 calories or somewhere around there. My deficit calories are 1700 so isnt that still meeting my cutting calories?
Whether or not you are doing IF is irrelevant. Meal timing is, except for very specific circumstances, irrelevant. Macros are irrelevant. One day's deficit or surplus is irrelevant.
Your maintenance of a deficit or surplus consistent with your goals over many days and weeks is what matters. Everything else in the short term is statistical noise.
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concordancia wrote: »People seem to have the impression that burning fat vs storing fat is an either or proposition. In reality, the body burns fat when it needs more fuel and stores fat when it has excess fuel. If you are trying to lose weight, you hope that over time the burning outpaces the storing, but they can both happen on the same day.
But now I want to know, is it a last in, first out transaction?
I've got no science for it, just anecdote, but at a gross level it appears that the parts of my body that added fat mass last sort of tend to be the ones that deplete first, more or less, kind of. Semi-FIFO in a general overall sense?
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Hardly an "advanced topic". The body is continuously storing fat and burning fat, sugar, and glycogen as a person goes through the day.
Pick any arbitrary period of time, if the person expends more energy than they consume the net deficit comes out of the energy stores in the body. There are several types and the body uses all of them in varying proportions during the day.
The point is to sustain an energy deficit consistently over time to lose fat. If you try to micromanage the process you will fail.
So intermittent fasting is bad then?7 -
SugarAndSugar wrote: »concordancia wrote: »People seem to have the impression that burning fat vs storing fat is an either or proposition. In reality, the body burns fat when it needs more fuel and stores fat when it has excess fuel. If you are trying to lose weight, you hope that over time the burning outpaces the storing, but they can both happen on the same day.
But now I want to know, is it a last in, first out transaction?
So i do IF and so at 1130 am i eat about 200 calories and at 3pm to 430 or 5pm i workout. Then around 530 i have usually 600-700 calories. Then around an hour or hour and half later i have dinner of 500 calories or somewhere around there. My deficit calories are 1700 so isnt that still meeting my cutting calories?
Whether or not you are doing IF is irrelevant. Meal timing is, except for very specific circumstances, irrelevant. Macros are irrelevant. One day's deficit or surplus is irrelevant.
Your maintenance of a deficit or surplus consistent with your goals over many days and weeks is what matters. Everything else in the short term is statistical noise.
Is this why people do the 6 to 7 meals a day? So you csn be more consistent?9 -
SugarAndSugar wrote: »
It doesn't matter. So long as you are at a consistent deficit over time you will lose weight. I'm not sure how many other ways we can say this.9 -
SugarAndSugar wrote: »Hardly an "advanced topic". The body is continuously storing fat and burning fat, sugar, and glycogen as a person goes through the day.
Pick any arbitrary period of time, if the person expends more energy than they consume the net deficit comes out of the energy stores in the body. There are several types and the body uses all of them in varying proportions during the day.
The point is to sustain an energy deficit consistently over time to lose fat. If you try to micromanage the process you will fail.
So intermittent fasting is bad then?
Did not say that.
If IF helps you sustain a deficit comfortably, it's beneficial. Just no advantage for weight loss over any other way of sustaining the same deficit.17 -
Nony_Mouse wrote: »SugarAndSugar wrote: »
It doesn't matter. So long as you are at a consistent deficit over time you will lose weight. I'm not sure how many other ways we can say this.
Idk what you mean by consistent4 -
SugarAndSugar wrote: »Hardly an "advanced topic". The body is continuously storing fat and burning fat, sugar, and glycogen as a person goes through the day.
Pick any arbitrary period of time, if the person expends more energy than they consume the net deficit comes out of the energy stores in the body. There are several types and the body uses all of them in varying proportions during the day.
The point is to sustain an energy deficit consistently over time to lose fat. If you try to micromanage the process you will fail.
So intermittent fasting is bad then?
Did not say that.
If IF helps you sustain a deficit comfortably, it's beneficial. Just no advantage for weight loss over any other way of sustaining the same deficit.
So its ok to indulge that big 700 calories in 1 sitting?5 -
SugarAndSugar wrote: »concordancia wrote: »People seem to have the impression that burning fat vs storing fat is an either or proposition. In reality, the body burns fat when it needs more fuel and stores fat when it has excess fuel. If you are trying to lose weight, you hope that over time the burning outpaces the storing, but they can both happen on the same day.
But now I want to know, is it a last in, first out transaction?
So i do IF and so at 1130 am i eat about 200 calories and at 3pm to 430 or 5pm i workout. Then around 530 i have usually 600-700 calories. Then around an hour or hour and half later i have dinner of 500 calories or somewhere around there. My deficit calories are 1700 so isnt that still meeting my cutting calories?
Am I understanding you right:
1700 is your calorie goal (which reflects a calorie deficit for you)
You eat approximately 1400 calories.
You exercise. (You don't add back any of the exercise calories, maybe?)
And you wonder if this will result in weight loss?
If I have the facts right, yes, it will result in excessively rapid and unhealthy weight loss. If you're supposed to eat 1700, eat 1700 . . . plus exercise.
The timing of eating and exercising doesn't much matter. If you put $1700 in your checking account, and write checks for $200, $700, and $500, it doesn't matter what time those checks clear your account, at the end you still have $300 left you could spend.
Calories aren't that different. They may get stored as fat until you need them, but if and when you need them, they'll get burned. (If you lose too fast, muscle might get burned in addition to fat, which wouldn't be a wonderful thing.)12 -
SugarAndSugar wrote: »SugarAndSugar wrote: »concordancia wrote: »People seem to have the impression that burning fat vs storing fat is an either or proposition. In reality, the body burns fat when it needs more fuel and stores fat when it has excess fuel. If you are trying to lose weight, you hope that over time the burning outpaces the storing, but they can both happen on the same day.
But now I want to know, is it a last in, first out transaction?
So i do IF and so at 1130 am i eat about 200 calories and at 3pm to 430 or 5pm i workout. Then around 530 i have usually 600-700 calories. Then around an hour or hour and half later i have dinner of 500 calories or somewhere around there. My deficit calories are 1700 so isnt that still meeting my cutting calories?
Whether or not you are doing IF is irrelevant. Meal timing is, except for very specific circumstances, irrelevant. Macros are irrelevant. One day's deficit or surplus is irrelevant.
Your maintenance of a deficit or surplus consistent with your goals over many days and weeks is what matters. Everything else in the short term is statistical noise.
Is this why people do the 6 to 7 meals a day? So you csn be more consistent?
Tons of reasons why, most are based on broscience or other diet myths.7 -
SugarAndSugar wrote: »Hardly an "advanced topic". The body is continuously storing fat and burning fat, sugar, and glycogen as a person goes through the day.
Pick any arbitrary period of time, if the person expends more energy than they consume the net deficit comes out of the energy stores in the body. There are several types and the body uses all of them in varying proportions during the day.
The point is to sustain an energy deficit consistently over time to lose fat. If you try to micromanage the process you will fail.
So intermittent fasting is bad then?SugarAndSugar wrote: »SugarAndSugar wrote: »concordancia wrote: »People seem to have the impression that burning fat vs storing fat is an either or proposition. In reality, the body burns fat when it needs more fuel and stores fat when it has excess fuel. If you are trying to lose weight, you hope that over time the burning outpaces the storing, but they can both happen on the same day.
But now I want to know, is it a last in, first out transaction?
So i do IF and so at 1130 am i eat about 200 calories and at 3pm to 430 or 5pm i workout. Then around 530 i have usually 600-700 calories. Then around an hour or hour and half later i have dinner of 500 calories or somewhere around there. My deficit calories are 1700 so isnt that still meeting my cutting calories?
Whether or not you are doing IF is irrelevant. Meal timing is, except for very specific circumstances, irrelevant. Macros are irrelevant. One day's deficit or surplus is irrelevant.
Your maintenance of a deficit or surplus consistent with your goals over many days and weeks is what matters. Everything else in the short term is statistical noise.
Is this why people do the 6 to 7 meals a day? So you csn be more consistent?
No and no. Use whatever method you find most sustainable, there is no one size fits all. The only thing that matters for weight loss is being at an overall calorie deficit. Again, days and weeks. How you achieve that deficit - shorter eating window, several small meals a day, three meals a day, whatever - is up to you. You are getting caught up in things that just don't matter, and making this a lot more complex than it needs to be.11 -
SugarAndSugar wrote: »SugarAndSugar wrote: »Hardly an "advanced topic". The body is continuously storing fat and burning fat, sugar, and glycogen as a person goes through the day.
Pick any arbitrary period of time, if the person expends more energy than they consume the net deficit comes out of the energy stores in the body. There are several types and the body uses all of them in varying proportions during the day.
The point is to sustain an energy deficit consistently over time to lose fat. If you try to micromanage the process you will fail.
So intermittent fasting is bad then?
Did not say that.
If IF helps you sustain a deficit comfortably, it's beneficial. Just no advantage for weight loss over any other way of sustaining the same deficit.
So its ok to indulge that big 700 calories in 1 sitting?
What part of "deficit over a long time" was unclear to you? One meal of some arbitrary account of calories is not going to make a difference when viewed over several weeks. Unless you are diabetic and insulin dependent you don't have to worry about individual meals.7 -
SugarAndSugar wrote: »
Your body will use some for energy, and some will store it as glycogen and or fat. But that is with anything you eat, so I see no problem
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And since when is 700 calories an exorbitant meal? That's usually one of my meals for the day.16
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SugarAndSugar wrote: »concordancia wrote: »People seem to have the impression that burning fat vs storing fat is an either or proposition. In reality, the body burns fat when it needs more fuel and stores fat when it has excess fuel. If you are trying to lose weight, you hope that over time the burning outpaces the storing, but they can both happen on the same day.
But now I want to know, is it a last in, first out transaction?
So i do IF and so at 1130 am i eat about 200 calories and at 3pm to 430 or 5pm i workout. Then around 530 i have usually 600-700 calories. Then around an hour or hour and half later i have dinner of 500 calories or somewhere around there. My deficit calories are 1700 so isnt that still meeting my cutting calories?
Am I understanding you right:
1700 is your calorie goal (which reflects a calorie deficit for you)
You eat approximately 1400 calories.
You exercise. (You don't add back any of the exercise calories, maybe?)
And you wonder if this will result in weight loss?
If I have the facts right, yes, it will result in excessively rapid and unhealthy weight loss. If you're supposed to eat 1700, eat 1700 . . . plus exercise.
The timing of eating and exercising doesn't much matter. If you put $1700 in your checking account, and write checks for $200, $700, and $500, it doesn't matter what time those checks clear your account, at the end you still have $300 left you could spend.
Calories aren't that different. They may get stored as fat until you need them, but if and when you need them, they'll get burned. (If you lose too fast, muscle might get burned in addition to fat, which wouldn't be a wonderful thing.)
I used the tdee calculator and i dont track exercise calories since i already put that in the calculator to get my tdee for cutting3 -
Maybe try looking at it this way. Your current weight is the result of your lifetime intake of calories minus your lifetime burned calories. What's left is where your weight comes from. You are the average over time of all you've eaten vs burned. You can look at it daily, weekly, monthly or over the course of the year and the result will be the same. If you stay in a deficit, you will lose weight. If you don't, you won't. Timing does not matter.10
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OP, just eat the 1700 calories per day, when doesn't matter.7
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And since when is 700 calories an exorbitant meal? That's usually one of my meals for the day.
I was wondering that myself. Breakfast this morning was close to 700 calories and it was nowhere near a "big" meal.
OP, in thread after thread, you're hugely, grossly overthinking things. Establish a reasonable calorie deficit, eat a reasonable diet in whatever timing/manner works best for you, and keep on trucking. Stop majoring in the minors.14 -
And since when is 700 calories an exorbitant meal? That's usually one of my meals for the day.
I was wondering that myself. Breakfast this morning was close to 700 calories and it was nowhere near a "big" meal.
OP, in thread after thread, you're hugely, grossly overthinking things. Establish a reasonable calorie deficit, eat a reasonable diet in whatever timing/manner works best for you, and keep on trucking. Stop majoring in the minors.
I recommend that the 700 calories be in the form of a cake sandwich.22 -
And since when is 700 calories an exorbitant meal? That's usually one of my meals for the day.
I was wondering that myself. Breakfast this morning was close to 700 calories and it was nowhere near a "big" meal.
OP, in thread after thread, you're hugely, grossly overthinking things. Establish a reasonable calorie deficit, eat a reasonable diet in whatever timing/manner works best for you, and keep on trucking. Stop majoring in the minors.
I recommend that the 700 calories be in the form of a cake sandwich.
This is always the correct answer7 -
And since when is 700 calories an exorbitant meal? That's usually one of my meals for the day.
I was wondering that myself. Breakfast this morning was close to 700 calories and it was nowhere near a "big" meal.
OP, in thread after thread, you're hugely, grossly overthinking things. Establish a reasonable calorie deficit, eat a reasonable diet in whatever timing/manner works best for you, and keep on trucking. Stop majoring in the minors.
I recommend that the 700 calories be in the form of a cake sandwich.
I like your style.3 -
SugarAndSugar wrote: »SugarAndSugar wrote: »concordancia wrote: »People seem to have the impression that burning fat vs storing fat is an either or proposition. In reality, the body burns fat when it needs more fuel and stores fat when it has excess fuel. If you are trying to lose weight, you hope that over time the burning outpaces the storing, but they can both happen on the same day.
But now I want to know, is it a last in, first out transaction?
So i do IF and so at 1130 am i eat about 200 calories and at 3pm to 430 or 5pm i workout. Then around 530 i have usually 600-700 calories. Then around an hour or hour and half later i have dinner of 500 calories or somewhere around there. My deficit calories are 1700 so isnt that still meeting my cutting calories?
Am I understanding you right:
1700 is your calorie goal (which reflects a calorie deficit for you)
You eat approximately 1400 calories.
You exercise. (You don't add back any of the exercise calories, maybe?)
And you wonder if this will result in weight loss?
If I have the facts right, yes, it will result in excessively rapid and unhealthy weight loss. If you're supposed to eat 1700, eat 1700 . . . plus exercise.
The timing of eating and exercising doesn't much matter. If you put $1700 in your checking account, and write checks for $200, $700, and $500, it doesn't matter what time those checks clear your account, at the end you still have $300 left you could spend.
Calories aren't that different. They may get stored as fat until you need them, but if and when you need them, they'll get burned. (If you lose too fast, muscle might get burned in addition to fat, which wouldn't be a wonderful thing.)
I used the tdee calculator and i dont track exercise calories since i already put that in the calculator to get my tdee for cutting
Then if 1700 is your TDEE, eating 1400 will give you a deficit, and it doesn't matter when you eat the 1400.
But your profile says you're male. Are you fairly short? 1700 is quite a low TDEE for a male, especially one who's exercising.
I'm a 5'5" 62-year-old woman with a bodyweight in the 130s (pounds) and I'd lose fairly rapidly on 1700. That's high for someone of my characteristics, but it makes me wonder about 1700 for you.5 -
And since when is 700 calories an exorbitant meal? That's usually one of my meals for the day.
It feels like 2000 since the thing i make is a smoothie with lots of ice, almond milk, cup of blueberries, bannana, and 100 calories of whey. That itself makes me full but to get more nutrients i eat some nuts and some other snacks that are usually up to 200 calories8 -
So, this topic is not advanced. It's pretty basic. Think of fat stores like a bank account where the goal is to end over drawn at the end of the day, week, month. All day long you eat. Deposit fat. Fast between meals. Withdraw fat. Over and over. At the end of the day, the only thing that matters is that you made more withdrawals than deposits.
That's it. Don't overthink it. There is nothing else that really matters.15
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