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Is veganism only possible with enough money?

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  • cwolfman13
    cwolfman13 Posts: 41,876 Member
    A vegan diet just like any other diet can be as expensive as one makes it.

    If I was allergic to something and I was broke, I'd eat what I could eat and not worry about substitutions like gluten free this or that or fake vegan "meat".
  • bpetrosky
    bpetrosky Posts: 3,911 Member
    cwolfman13 wrote: »
    A vegan diet just like any other diet can be as expensive as one makes it.

    If I was allergic to something and I was broke, I'd eat what I could eat and not worry about substitutions like gluten free this or that or fake vegan "meat".

    This.

    There was a time when I bought into the idea of "clean eating" and was getting all kinds of organic produce and meats that had the "health halo". I lost weight, but it was easily a 50% increase in my grocery budget. And the stuff didn't last as long and usually was no better tasting. I learned I could do just as well with cheaper food selections and gave up on the expensive stuff.

    The same thing applies to vegan diets. There's plenty of food that fits in a vegan diet that is inexpensive but a lot of producers have learned they charge a premium making vegan product lines and make bank on people jumping on the bandwagon.
  • shaumom
    shaumom Posts: 1,003 Member
    edited May 2018
    concordancia wrote: »
    You are talking about meal plans made up of substitutes, rather than embracing foods that can be eaten...
    Gluten free is expensive if you want to eat gluten free imitations of wheat products.

    Neither is expensive if you eat the things you can eat as they are rather than manipulating them into something they aren't.

    Just re: gluten free. I think it depends on the severity of the level of issue. Celiacs and allergic folks require more certainty of a lack of gluten contamination than simply a lack of gluten ingredients or ingredients that are 'naturally' gluten free, you know? That tends to add to the cost. Mostly it's because there is gluten contamination in shared harvesting equipment, shared shipping containers, and then, sometimes, in shared spaces or equipment in processing areas. And all of these can be problematic.

    And these issues are primarily found with anything that involves grains, beans, nuts, seeds, and dried fruits, or anything harvested, shipped, or processed with the same equipment as these. And so they all cost more if you buy gluten free versions...if you can even find them, because some things, like dried beans, often don't even HAVE gluten free sources that you can confirm. The best you can do is check to see if things are processed with wheat - which you may have to call about, because that label is actually voluntary, and not mandatory. :/

    And obviously processed goods all need to be gluten free, but that includes basics. Canned goods, condiments, nut butter, tofu, spices, extracts, frozen veggies, tomato paste or sauce - all has to be tested gluten free, because there is so much processed with gluten nowadays that anything processed is a risk. I know some celiacs do not do this, but considering a recent study found that the majority of completely diet-compliant celiacs were eating something like four times the safe level of gluten for them, I'd say that the safe diet truly IS important.


    If someone has found a cheap vegan menu plan ($34 or less a week) that is also allergen free (gluten free is actually of great interest to me, as I'm a celiac), I would love to see it. Truly, no sarcasm here, I would actually be really happy to see some examples. My whole family is basically a bunch of celiacs. My teen is a vegetarian, and considering veganism. But I honestly can't see a way for us to afford this diet AND be as gluten free as we need to be. And a lot of folks say this can't be done.

    Any vegans who want to see if they can come up with a gluten free vegan diet, for $34 a week or so? Seriously, please give it a go. :-) My teenager would be very happy.
  • shaumom
    shaumom Posts: 1,003 Member
    Oh, just realized there were more replies since I wrote the above post, because I started it and took a break, LOL.

    Thanks for all the replies. It's nice to see some folks are able to do this relatively cheaply. :-)

    Although seriously...anyone want to come up with a gluten free safe vegan meal plan for a week, just for kicks? ;-) Partly I am feeling pretty downhearted about my chances. I was increasing my own non-meat protein sources, and then got really ill a few times from, it turned out, dried beans that are now wheat contaminated because the company started processing spelt in the same factory. :-(
  • kristingjertsen
    kristingjertsen Posts: 239 Member
    I do think that the time needed to prepare meals from scratch is a big factor in many people's food decisions. I am a homemaker and I have the time available to do food prep and menu planning on a daily basis. When I worked, cooking was much less fun and felt like work on top of my already busy day. We were more likely to purchase prepared food like deli chicken or eat out. I suspect most of the money I made was eaten up by "treating" the family to takeout or a restaurant meal on the many nights I was too tired to want to cook. So don't be too hard on people who make other food choices. We are all just trying to keep our families fed and happy.
  • tillycrooke
    tillycrooke Posts: 15 Member
    edited May 2018
    I feed a family of 6, most choose not to be vegan, I’ve not got the time or inclination to make separate meals for everyone so usually adapt the meals with meat in to suit the 2 of us that are vegan, for instance the spaghetti bolognese I make vegan, then divide into two pots adding soya meat substitute to one and minced beef to the other, you can substitute most minced beef meals for soya mince or beans, in most meals actually.

    The added expense (in England) anyway seems to be when you try to find alternatives to dairy, however I’ve found that I spend no more more money on the weekly shop than I did when the entire household ate meat and dairy.
  • janejellyroll
    janejellyroll Posts: 25,763 Member
    shaumom wrote: »
    Oh, just realized there were more replies since I wrote the above post, because I started it and took a break, LOL.

    Thanks for all the replies. It's nice to see some folks are able to do this relatively cheaply. :-)

    Although seriously...anyone want to come up with a gluten free safe vegan meal plan for a week, just for kicks? ;-) Partly I am feeling pretty downhearted about my chances. I was increasing my own non-meat protein sources, and then got really ill a few times from, it turned out, dried beans that are now wheat contaminated because the company started processing spelt in the same factory. :-(

    I would give this a try, but I don't know if I could create a sustainable vegan diet plan that avoided purchasing grains, beans, nuts, seeds, dried fruit and came in under $34 a week. If I was in this situation, I would probably begin growing my own beans and drying them for year-round use or finding a local farmer who was willing to work with me on sourcing some beans/gluten-free grains that were processed in a way that avoided gluten contamination.

    I would do this, even though it would be a giant pain, because it's an ethical thing for me. Without those ethical motivations, I can't see someone sticking to it. What I'm imagining on this diet is that I would spend a good amount of time locating food that fit into my goals, buying it in bulk, and then preserving it. It wouldn't be a meal plan that I could just go to the store and get for $34 a week.

    Can't be done? I think it could. Would it require a lot of time and effort, especially since it has to be done cheaply? I think so.

    (This shouldn't be read as me saying "It can be done, so why aren't you doing it?" I understand very well the obstacles to putting something like what I'm proposing into practice).

  • Lounmoun
    Lounmoun Posts: 8,426 Member
    edited May 2018
    shaumom wrote: »
    concordancia wrote: »
    You are talking about meal plans made up of substitutes, rather than embracing foods that can be eaten...
    Gluten free is expensive if you want to eat gluten free imitations of wheat products.

    Neither is expensive if you eat the things you can eat as they are rather than manipulating them into something they aren't.

    Just re: gluten free. I think it depends on the severity of the level of issue. Celiacs and allergic folks require more certainty of a lack of gluten contamination than simply a lack of gluten ingredients or ingredients that are 'naturally' gluten free, you know? That tends to add to the cost. Mostly it's because there is gluten contamination in shared harvesting equipment, shared shipping containers, and then, sometimes, in shared spaces or equipment in processing areas. And all of these can be problematic.

    And these issues are primarily found with anything that involves grains, beans, nuts, seeds, and dried fruits, or anything harvested, shipped, or processed with the same equipment as these. And so they all cost more if you buy gluten free versions...if you can even find them, because some things, like dried beans, often don't even HAVE gluten free sources that you can confirm. The best you can do is check to see if things are processed with wheat - which you may have to call about, because that label is actually voluntary, and not mandatory. :/

    And obviously processed goods all need to be gluten free, but that includes basics. Canned goods, condiments, nut butter, tofu, spices, extracts, frozen veggies, tomato paste or sauce - all has to be tested gluten free, because there is so much processed with gluten nowadays that anything processed is a risk. I know some celiacs do not do this, but considering a recent study found that the majority of completely diet-compliant celiacs were eating something like four times the safe level of gluten for them, I'd say that the safe diet truly IS important.


    If someone has found a cheap vegan menu plan ($34 or less a week) that is also allergen free (gluten free is actually of great interest to me, as I'm a celiac), I would love to see it. Truly, no sarcasm here, I would actually be really happy to see some examples. My whole family is basically a bunch of celiacs. My teen is a vegetarian, and considering veganism. But I honestly can't see a way for us to afford this diet AND be as gluten free as we need to be. And a lot of folks say this can't be done.

    Any vegans who want to see if they can come up with a gluten free vegan diet, for $34 a week or so? Seriously, please give it a go. :-) My teenager would be very happy.

    Not vegan or gluten free myself but I found a few blogs with menu plans and recipes that may give ideas.
    http://stuffedveggies.blogspot.com/2013/08/a-month-of-gluten-free-vegan-meals.html
    https://www.frugalfarmwife.com/gluten-free-recipes/ (not all vegan)

    I think if I had medical dietary limitations that would make it expensive or very hard to eliminate more foods to become vegan then I would not choose to do so.
  • MikePfirrman
    MikePfirrman Posts: 3,307 Member
    I'm not Vegan but have been gradually leaning that way over the last couple of years. My wife and I try to only eat meat twice a week (not two days, just two meals).

    We are also gluten/dairy free as well (and my wife has to avoid nuts, so it makes things really tricky). A lot of your cost depends on how smart you shop and what you cook. Eating at home we eat fantastic. It's when we try to go out it's trick if not impossible.

    Just some examples of what we eat --

    Columbian Stew - Sweet potato, cabbage, green beans and Coconut Milk with Curry seasonings.

    Quinoa Thai Salad (leaving Cashews out for my wife) - It's a Thai Quinoa Salad with Red Pepper, Green Onion, Lime Juice and Red Cabbage.

    Tofu Bacon Spinach Salad - made just like a sweet/sour Bacon Spinach Salad

    Warm Winter Salad - Field Greens, roasted potatoes, roasted green beans and quinoa with a lemon vinegar dressing (almonds optional).

    I find you'll find places that offer grains and vegetables cheaper. There's a local megastore near my area that is ridiculously expensive when it comes to box stuff, dairy and meat but they are also the cheapest in town for fresh produce and their produce lasts longer. I used to go to Kroger because I liked their meat/cheese. Now I never go to Kroger. Walmart's produce is so bad you won't ever see me there. Costco is fantastic for Organic Quinoa and Rice as well as Coconut Milk/Olive Oil. Very cheap on nuts too if you can eat nuts.

    We eat 90% at home and I can easily get away with spending $60/$70 a week on all our groceries. Produce is cheap.
  • MikePfirrman
    MikePfirrman Posts: 3,307 Member
    Rereading the OP's original questions, for me, the biggest challenges would be how much money do I have accessible for buying things in bulk. If my budget was $35 a week (and I had nothing in the bank), it would be VERY tough.

    Here's the reasons - you ask about GF flour. First of all, when you're truly plant based, you don't use a ton of flour, so the idea of constantly eating bread twice a day kind of disappears. We eat bread very infrequently. So much so that we'll buy a frozen loaf of GF bread and it usually stays in the freezer for around 3/4 months before we finish it. However, if we are using flour (and I do for an occasional snack like homemade Zucchini Bread), I buy a 5 lb bag (that is $14) but it lasts a long time. If 34 is your budget, that's tough to do, if not impossible.

    My wife (and I at times) rely heavily on Vegan Protein powder (SunWarrior) but if I was going cheaper, I'd probably use Pea Protein (plain) and buy it off of Amazon, but again, that's assuming you have the money to do that in bulk, though Pea Protein is fairly cheap.

    Same with Costco I mentioned above. Costco's Organic Quinoa is very cheap, but a yearly membership isn't ($50), so perhaps if you knew anyone that had a membership. But again, how you can buy in bulk with only $35 a week would be very tough.

    Another huge challenge would be going to two/three stores to find the cheapest groceries. That assumes you have a car and gas to do it. For instance, Kroger, though expensive on nearly everything else, has cheap nut and coconut milk (store brand, a lot of their store brands are cheap).

    My breakfasts would look like Oatmeal, fresh fruit, nuts, breakfast bars perhaps.

    Lunch (which is often what we do) is leftover dinners or a Vegan Protein Drink. Sunflower butter is great if you can afford it, if not, make your own if you have a food processor. You (if not allergic to nuts) might make your own nut milk or oat milk/coconut milk if allergic, but again, that's assuming you can afford to buy a nut milk bag.

    Dinners would be things off of sites (like recipes I mention above) like Forks over Knives or Oh She Glows (my favorite Vegan cookbook). Indian is very easy. Kroger (again I don't go there for much) has great Indian Sauces that are made with coconut milk for an easy dinner, but it's cheaper to have your own Curry Powder and Coconut Milk (around a dollar a can at Costco). Fresh Veggies and Rice are cheap. So are chickpeas. Coconut Milk Vegan Indian Curry is one of our favorites.



  • fuzzylop72
    fuzzylop72 Posts: 651 Member
    edited May 2018
    shaumom wrote: »
    I have heard it said that the poorer you get, the less you are able to follow a vegan diet. So I would ask: is veganism a diet of the those with money, or can even those without money follow it?

    First follow up question - if you think a vegan diet CAN be done, regardless of income, can you come up with a meal plan for an adult that would prove it? Just with something looking at basics- 1 week meal plan for 1 small adult, on a food stamps budget (about $34 a week), who requires a 2,000 calorie diet and 46 g of protein a day.

    Second follow up - if you figured out a meal plan that is in budget, is it actually one you think you could follow yourself for a long period?

    Bonus follow up - If you made a diet plan, how much more expensive is it if you had to get allergen free versions of any of the meal plan's components? (like Gluten Free flour vs flour, or peanut free nuts, etc...)

    Veganism is as expensive as you make it. Dry beans are probably the cheapest food available, and frozen non-organic vegetables aren't very expensive. If you buy a ton of pre-packaged things, than the cost goes up, and if you buy a ton of fresh organic fruits and vegetables the cost can go up.

    I don't usually use flour, but things like peanut free nuts seem like they'd be simple, just buy a package of some sort of tree nut (peanuts aren't nuts, they're legumes). However, if you're so allergic that you can't have items processed on the same equipment, that might be harder, and in that case you might have to just opt for a totally different fat source than nuts.

    Cross contamination is probably going to be an issue, regardless. Most of the products which handle cross contamination especially well (edison for example or something certified via gfco) tend to be more expensive if you need to get down to the 5-10 ppm range.
  • deannalfisher
    deannalfisher Posts: 5,600 Member
    gregnixon426 wrote: »
    If you want to eat a vegan diet, you need vegan friends or plan to eat by yourself almost all of the time. As far as the money goes, the healthier you want to eat, the more expensive your food becomes.

    really - my vegan sister has no problem finding food at many non-vegan places to eat (and i'm an avowed carnivore)
  • nickssweetheart
    nickssweetheart Posts: 874 Member
    gregnixon426 wrote: »
    If you want to eat a vegan diet, you need vegan friends or plan to eat by yourself almost all of the time. As far as the money goes, the healthier you want to eat, the more expensive your food becomes.

    My friends are willing to accommodate my dietary preferences. That's one of the many wonderful qualities I look for in a friend. I'm having lunch with someone this week who is a low-carber, and she did all the research and turned up a Mediterranean restaurant we can both happily eat at.

    Sometimes there are reasons I find myself at restaurants that are just impossible. At that point, I choose whether to eat a naked salad, just order a drink and enjoy the company, or occasionally choose to eat something that is vegetarian instead of vegan. I'm not perfect and neither is the world we live in.

    As far as the health aspect, healthy vegan food is incredibly low cost, for the most part. What gets expensive are the vegan "specialty" foods like vegan cheese, vegan butter, vegan ice cream, gardein "chicken" and "fish" (both of which are breaded and fried), etc.

    If you don't care about eating healthfully, yes, it can be done even cheaper by skipping fruits and vegetable and eating nothing but pasta, but that's no different than an omnivore eating nothing but boxed mac and cheese and ramen. In fact, arguably, the vegan would be in a better position here as well, because at least it would be comparatively low sodium.
  • shaumom
    shaumom Posts: 1,003 Member
    nickssweetheart wrote: »
    For fun I made a second menu in a completely different style. I assumed that we had the same person but in a week where he/she has absolutely no time to cook and is craving some junkier foods. I carried over the oatmeal, peanut butter, and onions from the first week since they wouldn't have been used up. This person would also still have most of a 10 lb bag of potatoes and a 5 lb bag of carrots as well as cooked navy beans and chickpeas, but I didn't need to use any of them to get a core menu, so I'll just let her plug them in when she wants a change. .

    Thanks for the second meal plan (and some of the others given in the last few posts). Nice to see, get some ides for some things, see what people are eating.

    It does seem like, for the non-allergic anyway, vegan may be possible at lower costs, as long as certain foods are available (have the right kind of stores, with the right kinds of prices).
  • nickssweetheart
    nickssweetheart Posts: 874 Member
    Actually, I would say that for the non-allergic person with access to a wide variety of stores...and who also has a stove and knows how to cook, that person will get a lot more sustenance for their dollars if they eat vegan.
  • shaumom
    shaumom Posts: 1,003 Member
    edited May 2018
    janejellyroll wrote: »
    ...If I was in this situation, I would probably begin growing my own beans and drying them for year-round use or finding a local farmer who was willing to work with me on sourcing some beans/gluten-free grains that were processed in a way that avoided gluten contamination.

    I would do this, even though it would be a giant pain, because it's an ethical thing for me. Without those ethical motivations, I can't see someone sticking to it. What I'm imagining on this diet is that I would spend a good amount of time locating food that fit into my goals, buying it in bulk, and then preserving it. It wouldn't be a meal plan that I could just go to the store and get for $34 a week.

    Can't be done? I think it could. Would it require a lot of time and effort, especially since it has to be done cheaply? I think so.

    I would say that this sort of thing - interacting with farmers to try and get safe sources of foods - absolutely can be done. I have had to do this myself a few times - both grow some foods, and try to find safe sources. And wow, yes, it is a lot of time and effort.

    But although time and effort is intense for this (enough that if you have to work long enough hours, you may not be able to do this at all), the real issue ended up being cost and resources.

    First, you have to live in an area that grows the food you want to grow/buy, or you have to interview farmers from all over the country to try and find it. Also, growing our own food takes a lot of land, so if one doesn't have that...out of luck, you know? And most of us with little money don't have a lot of land. Heck, even the only community garden plots around my area have maybe 1/4-1/2 the plot size needed to grow a year's worth of beans and nothing else, so that wouldn't work, either. And one would need to acquire the space to store a year's worth of beans/grains, etc... as well.

    If one was to try to get food from a farmer, instead...

    Assuming you have farmers that grow beans and/or grains in one's area, farmers at this point typically don't own their own harvesters, but either rent them from a central place, or sometimes a group of farmers will essentially joint-own one and they use them together, because the harvesters are so expensive. Which means that many grains and legumes are contaminated at harvest time from other farms, even if the farmer we deal with has a safe field of crops. Same issue with shipping trucks. So if you can pay them for an entire harvesting and shipping truck, and gas, just for themselves, they are likely not going to be able to eliminate that issue. And for getting foods processed, unless one can pay the farmer for special workers to come in and process something by hand, you are stuck with whatever processing company or machinery (often shared, again) the farmer has available.

    While absolutely the farmers I have talked to have been almost universally awesome, they are typically not able, or willing, to make the necessary changes for fully allergen free beans/grains/etc... without someone paying them a lot more money to do so. Usually because it costs them a lot more money to do so.

    The few cases I've found that have decided to try this on their own, as a selling point, are significantly more expensive. :-/

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