plateau help - hypothyroid - I am getting SO frustrated.
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drockncrisso wrote: »I did not eat 1200 all week this week. I relaxed a bit.. this is what my calories and net calories look like (based on Fitbit adjustment- which I am sure is over estimating cals burned) ... I had ONE day where MFD said I ate to maintain. The other days, I did my best to stay around 1200 net- where MFD says I would lose a pound this week. Based on that, I would assume that I should have lost .5lbs if I am lucky. .. even if Fitbit is horribly wrong: my BMR is supposedly 1491 and my TDEE is 1789 and I ate around 1600.. that should be maintenance when you figure that I am NOT just laying in bed all day.. buuut... I gained half a pound since last Thursday. Evidence that, not worrying about sticking to 1200 no matter what, does NOT work for me, right?
a half a lb gain could be waste,water retention,too much sodium, TOM (if female).or a normal fluctuation.weight loss is also not linear and what mfp tells you what you will weigh when you close out your diary isnt accurate for everyone. what it means is if you ate and worked out and burned the same amount of calories and at the same things in the same quantities then its possible to lose that much. its just a guesstimation.its never been right for me2 -
drockncrisso wrote: »So if hypothyroid does not slow metabolism- why did my MD say that it is contributing to my difficulty losing weight? And what is the low heart rate and feeling cold all the time? If I have a two month plateau while eating 1200-1400 cals a day (except when I run long distance- then it’s 1800) I can’t see why water weight would keep the scale from changing.. if it’s just fluid, does that mean I AM losing weight, but my body just keeps retaining exponentially more water equal to what I’m losing?
The slow metabolism thing makes sense to me- so I’m trying to wrap my brain around how that’s not true and it’s just fluid.
Also- when we’re taking about trying to create a 500 a day deficit with an already low BMR, 5-7% reduction in RMR does make a difference, as far as I can tell.. I mean.. if I’m eating 1200, but my RMR is 87 cals lower than I think, I should be eating just over 1100...right?? Over a week that’s nearly 700 cals further from my goal. It adds up. Is there any way to get ones metabolic rate tested? So I can stop guessing and just know how much I’m supposed to be taking in??
People say - stop worrying about dieting, but I HAVE no choice apparently. I have to worry about keeping my calories down insanely low, apparently just to maintain my current overweight status. I certainly don’t want to gain weight. Why do I have to eat 1200 just to maintain if there is nothing wrong with my metabolism? It doesn’t make sense to me. If my BMR is 1491, I should be losing weight eating 1200, right??
The (up to) 5% is not irrelevant. It's meaningful, but not huge.
Another thing that I suspect is relevant: When I was untreated/hypothyroid, I felt exhausted, and my joints ached. I can't name the exact causes, but I'd be willing to bet I was up to a few (2? more?) hundred calories less energetic/active in my daily life as a consequence. Think putting off chores that require energy, avoiding long walks while shopping, getting the quick dinner instead of the time consuming one that involves running around the kitchen more, weeding the flowers less, resting more, sleeping more . . . and dozens of other little things that add up. If I had known or noticed this at the time, I possibly could've taken at least some counter-measures . . . but I didn't notice.
Yes, you can get your metabolic rate (BMR) estimated, in certain kinds of labs. Someone else will need to fill you in on that, because I'm not knowledgeable. Keep in mind, though, that for most of us, while BMR is a substantial amount of our base calorie requirement, daily life activity (the rest of NEAT) is typically also pretty large. There's no great way to measure that, but there are ways to work at improving it.
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I've heard from a LOT of people that you should never eat back your calories earned from exercise especially if you are plateauing or gaining. It sounds as though you exercise a lot, so may not be applicable to you, but today MFP told me I'd earned over 200 cals from a one hour walk. But my fitbit told me I'd only walked 8k steps, which is 2k under the basic minimum suggested to stay healthy - not to lose weight or develop fitness. So if your usual habits are to walk or run daily, maybe you'd need to do more exercise on top of that.
To up your metabolic rate would it be worth adding in a couple of mini HIIT sessions daily - 2 x 5 mins might help.5 -
I've heard from a LOT of people that you should never eat back your calories earned from exercise especially if you are plateauing or gaining. It sounds as though you exercise a lot, so may not be applicable to you, but today MFP told me I'd earned over 200 cals from a one hour walk. But my fitbit told me I'd only walked 8k steps, which is 2k under the basic minimum suggested to stay healthy - not to lose weight or develop fitness. So if your usual habits are to walk or run daily, maybe you'd need to do more exercise on top of that.
To up your metabolic rate would it be worth adding in a couple of mini HIIT sessions daily - 2 x 5 mins might help.
MFP counts your deficit when you tell it what your daily activities are. exercise calories make it a bigger deficit which is WHY you eat some of them back. too big of a deficit means lean mass loss and other things . you have to also fuel your body and your workout.so not eating them back(at least some) is not how the site is designed and its not healthy to underfuel a body.
now if the person was doing the TDEE method where exercise IS counted in the deficit then no they would not eat those exercise calories back. plateaus are normal when it comes to weight loss. if you are gaining then you are eating too many calories. people with thyroid issue their BMRs may be less than what MFP gives them as well so they need to adjust their calories to reflect that. 200 calories for 80000 steps is probably accurate for you. you can boost your metabolism with any additional exercise outside of your daily activity. it doesnt have to be hiit.3 -
drockncrisso wrote: »
Focusing THIS long on something and not seeing a result is frustrating and depressing.
Welcome to the thyroid issues world!
It has taken me 5 months to lose 16 pounds with the help of my doctor. Even he seems frustrated and he specializes in weight loss for those who are weight loss resistant.
I wish I could tell you the prescription will make it all better but that’s not necessarily true. Try googling thyroid issues and you will see no advancements made sine the 1960s. The research people have done on their own is somewhat enlightening. I would seek out to learn as much as you can about the condition and treatment. Then compare to what your experiencing. It is a lot of trial and error to find what works for you.5 -
drockncrisso wrote: »So if hypothyroid does not slow metabolism- why did my MD say that it is contributing to my difficulty losing weight? And what is the low heart rate and feeling cold all the time? If I have a two month plateau while eating 1200-1400 cals a day (except when I run long distance- then it’s 1800) I can’t see why water weight would keep the scale from changing.. if it’s just fluid, does that mean I AM losing weight, but my body just keeps retaining exponentially more water equal to what I’m losing?
The slow metabolism thing makes sense to me- so I’m trying to wrap my brain around how that’s not true and it’s just fluid.
Also- when we’re taking about trying to create a 500 a day deficit with an already low BMR, 5-7% reduction in RMR does make a difference, as far as I can tell.. I mean.. if I’m eating 1200, but my RMR is 87 cals lower than I think, I should be eating just over 1100...right?? Over a week that’s nearly 700 cals further from my goal. It adds up. Is there any way to get ones metabolic rate tested? So I can stop guessing and just know how much I’m supposed to be taking in??
People say - stop worrying about dieting, but I HAVE no choice apparently. I have to worry about keeping my calories down insanely low, apparently just to maintain my current overweight status. I certainly don’t want to gain weight. Why do I have to eat 1200 just to maintain if there is nothing wrong with my metabolism? It doesn’t make sense to me. If my BMR is 1491, I should be losing weight eating 1200, right??
…but you're assuming that you have a slow metabolism. Why is this?
If you believe this is true then get tested.
People say and believe a lot of things that are wrong, regardless of the letters behind one's name.3 -
So, I have hypothyroidism and it does slow your metabolism. It actually changes the way your entire body digests food. If you have this condition, you might find that you have trouble going to the bathroom (number 2, in particular).
Anyways, it’s not the amount of calories, it’s usually the substance of what you are eating. There have been many success stories of people switching to gluten-free diets or a paleo diet and having success losing weight.
The most important thing I can stress (because I have this) is to get your blood tested regularly by an endocrinologist. Your PCP might refer you to one. If you are a woman, I would find one who specializes in women or pregnancy endocrinology. I have had great success with this.
I hope this helps!7 -
shellyfatfree7 wrote: »So, I have hypothyroidism and it does slow your metabolism. It actually changes the way your entire body digests food. If you have this condition, you might find that you have trouble going to the bathroom (number 2, in particular).
Anyways, it’s not the amount of calories, it’s usually the substance of what you are eating. There have been many success stories of people switching to gluten-free diets or a paleo diet and having success losing weight.
The most important thing I can stress (because I have this) is to get your blood tested regularly by an endocrinologist. Your PCP might refer you to one. If you are a woman, I would find one who specializes in women or pregnancy endocrinology. I have had great success with this.
I hope this helps!
Many/most of us posting on this thread have hypothyroidism. I do, and have had for 17+ years. Some of the people posting on this thread have no thyroid gland at all (surgically removed). One person posting is a hypothyroid person who is also a research scientist with relevant professional expertise.
Your post seems to imply that others of us are writing speculatively, with no personal experience. That's not the case.
I disagree that limiting particular foods is generally necessary for otherwise healthy hypothyroid people in order to lose weight. Hypothyroid people, like other people, sometimes find popular named "diets" (gluten free, Paleo, keto, WFPB, IF, whatever) help them more happily maintain a calorie deficit.
But many hypothyroid people - me, for one - lose weight fine by eating at a sensible calorie goal and working to keep calorie expenditure up via exercise and a focus on increasing daily life activity levels. (Certainly, adequate well-rounded nutrition is also important for everyone.)
I also disagree that hypothyroidism "actually changes the way your whole body digests food". I'm not sure what you mean, as our "whole body" doesn't digest food in the first place. Can you tell us specifically how digestion differs in hypothyroid people, beyond the fact that constipation can be one of many symptoms?3 -
shellyfatfree7 wrote: »So, I have hypothyroidism and it does slow your metabolism. It actually changes the way your entire body digests food. If you have this condition, you might find that you have trouble going to the bathroom (number 2, in particular).
Anyways, it’s not the amount of calories, it’s usually the substance of what you are eating. There have been many success stories of people switching to gluten-free diets or a paleo diet and having success losing weight.
The most important thing I can stress (because I have this) is to get your blood tested regularly by an endocrinologist. Your PCP might refer you to one. If you are a woman, I would find one who specializes in women or pregnancy endocrinology. I have had great success with this.
I hope this helps!
well my daughter has hypothyroid and she has no issues digesting food and no issues going to the bathroom.she doesnt eat a lot of fiber because she is not a fan of veggies and eats very few fruits. she eats more meat than anything. she also fasts most of the time. she has no issues except with the losing weight and her endo said it could take awhile of having her thyroid levels where they need to be before she sees any difference. even when she changed her diet it made NO difference. gluten free should only be avoided if you have gluten intolerance,sensitivities or celiac. weight loss still comes down to a deficit of calories,just with someone with hypo the CICO will vary.and it may be harder and slower to see weight loss0 -
I am going to get my metabolic rate tested. I know that I might not be able to determine my AMR or Tdee but.. I figure- if I can find out my ACTUAL RMR and compare that to the RMR that I get on all the online generators- it might give me a good indication of how far off my calorie burn estimates might be.1
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drockncrisso wrote: »I am going to get my metabolic rate tested. I know that I might not be able to determine my AMR or Tdee but.. I figure- if I can find out my ACTUAL RMR and compare that to the RMR that I get on all the online generators- it might give me a good indication of how far off my calorie burn estimates might be.
if you get BMR tested it should tell you what your TDEE is an other things. a few people here (cant remember names) showed their results and it had all that info on the paper(they had a pic)1 -
CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »drockncrisso wrote: »I am going to get my metabolic rate tested. I know that I might not be able to determine my AMR or Tdee but.. I figure- if I can find out my ACTUAL RMR and compare that to the RMR that I get on all the online generators- it might give me a good indication of how far off my calorie burn estimates might be.
if you get BMR tested it should tell you what your TDEE is an other things. a few people here (cant remember names) showed their results and it had all that info on the paper(they had a pic)
If it gives a TDEE, that's still an estimate, not a measurement. Depending on what lab testing is done, the RMR can be a measurement (a sample, strictly speaking, I guess, but still a measurement). They'd have to use factors to get a TDEE, since they don't measure daily activity or exercise - TDEE is extrapolated.1 -
CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »drockncrisso wrote: »I am going to get my metabolic rate tested. I know that I might not be able to determine my AMR or Tdee but.. I figure- if I can find out my ACTUAL RMR and compare that to the RMR that I get on all the online generators- it might give me a good indication of how far off my calorie burn estimates might be.
if you get BMR tested it should tell you what your TDEE is an other things. a few people here (cant remember names) showed their results and it had all that info on the paper(they had a pic)
If it gives a TDEE, that's still an estimate, not a measurement. Depending on what lab testing is done, the RMR can be a measurement (a sample, strictly speaking, I guess, but still a measurement). They'd have to use factors to get a TDEE, since they don't measure daily activity or exercise - TDEE is extrapolated.
I agree its still an estimate. not discounting that at all. but many who have had it done say its easier to know how many calories to eat to lose,maintain,etc. But it may be more accurate. like I said with me,MFP and other calculators say my BMR is 1400-1500+ with all the data I have collected over the years my BMR is a little over 1200.
none of the calulators have been correct for me either because of that. maybe it has something to do with my metabolic disorder I dont know. But at least with the tests maybe the OP can find a happy medium and find what works1 -
CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »drockncrisso wrote: »I am going to get my metabolic rate tested. I know that I might not be able to determine my AMR or Tdee but.. I figure- if I can find out my ACTUAL RMR and compare that to the RMR that I get on all the online generators- it might give me a good indication of how far off my calorie burn estimates might be.
if you get BMR tested it should tell you what your TDEE is an other things. a few people here (cant remember names) showed their results and it had all that info on the paper(they had a pic)
If it gives a TDEE, that's still an estimate, not a measurement. Depending on what lab testing is done, the RMR can be a measurement (a sample, strictly speaking, I guess, but still a measurement). They'd have to use factors to get a TDEE, since they don't measure daily activity or exercise - TDEE is extrapolated.
I agree its still an estimate. not discounting that at all. but many who have had it done say its easier to know how many calories to eat to lose,maintain,etc. But it may be more accurate. like I said with me,MFP and other calculators say my BMR is 1400-1500+ with all the data I have collected over the years my BMR is a little over 1200.
none of the calulators have been correct for me either because of that. maybe it has something to do with my metabolic disorder I dont know. But at least with the tests maybe the OP can find a happy medium and find what works
Completely agree. A lab's NEAT/TDEE estimate off a RMR test is bound to be an improvement in accuracy. I just wanted to make sure OP understood that the TDEE part still shouldn't be understood as gospel.
I have a pretty good handle on what my NEAT/TDEE are, based on experience, but I've still considered getting tested because the so-called calculators estimate me incorrectly, too, and it would be academically interesting to know whether the variance is in RMR or elsewhere.3 -
drockncrisso wrote: »I am going to get my metabolic rate tested. I know that I might not be able to determine my AMR or Tdee but.. I figure- if I can find out my ACTUAL RMR and compare that to the RMR that I get on all the online generators- it might give me a good indication of how far off my calorie burn estimates might be.
When you go ask the following questions:
1. What device are you using?
2. How often is this calibrated?
3. What is the stated degree of error?
If you can get tested through a university of medical facility this is the best way to go. The commercial outlets rarely use Class A equipment and the degree of error is very large (20% or greater).
Multiple readings over time will provide the best estimate as your BMR varies to some degree based upon recent digestion.2 -
I also have a slow thyroid but in my case it is right on the limit so doctors refuse to put me on medication even though I had sky rocking white blood cell count. I started taking a natural over the counter selenium + iodine supplement last summer and actually dropped 15 kg from it without changing anything on my diet or exercise.1
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I also have a slow thyroid but in my case it is right on the limit so doctors refuse to put me on medication even though I had sky rocking white blood cell count. I started taking a natural over the counter selenium + iodine supplement last summer and actually dropped 15 kg from it without changing anything on my diet or exercise.
gotta watch selenium as too much can cause severe health issues as well as too much iodine which can lead to hyperthyroidism. its best for a person to see an endocrinologist and if tests come back normal keep getting tested every so often. my daughters first blood test came back abnormal,so she was sent to an endo. for almost 2 years her tests came back normal. then towards the end of the 2 years her levels came back high again. they said she had a fluctuating thyroid condition at the time causing the inaccuracies in her blood tests. now shes on meds.0 -
CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »I also have a slow thyroid but in my case it is right on the limit so doctors refuse to put me on medication even though I had sky rocking white blood cell count. I started taking a natural over the counter selenium + iodine supplement last summer and actually dropped 15 kg from it without changing anything on my diet or exercise.
gotta watch selenium as too much can cause severe health issues as well as too much iodine which can lead to hyperthyroidism. its best for a person to see an endocrinologist and if tests come back normal keep getting tested every so often. my daughters first blood test came back abnormal,so she was sent to an endo. for almost 2 years her tests came back normal. then towards the end of the 2 years her levels came back high again. they said she had a fluctuating thyroid condition at the time causing the inaccuracies in her blood tests. now shes on meds.
This is a critical point - the inaccuracy of all hormone testing is massive as the amounts are incredibly low - micrograms swimming around in 70 kg bodies. Multiple readings over time are a must for any realistic analysis.
We are horrible at self assessment. Everyone has confirmation bias and while we like to think that we haven't changed our habits, we often do. Bearing in mind it doesn't take much to gain or lose weight, a simple 10% increase or decrease over maintenance.2 -
I can't remember who asked it- but yes, I did get my vitamin D levels tested and I was really low, so I am supplementing that as well.
I know the RMR test and the extrapolated TDEE won't be 100% accurate, but I am just looking for something closer to accurate than my typing my age, height and weight into a website. I figure, the closer I can get to accurate, the better.0 -
drockncrisso wrote: »I can't remember who asked it- but yes, I did get my vitamin D levels tested and I was really low, so I am supplementing that as well.
I know the RMR test and the extrapolated TDEE won't be 100% accurate, but I am just looking for something closer to accurate than my typing my age, height and weight into a website. I figure, the closer I can get to accurate, the better.
Speaking as someone who has tested myself and other patients thousands of times you may be surprised with how accurate that website calculation is.
http://www.bmi-calculator.net/bmr-calculator/
This calculator put me at 2051 (6'4", 215 lb, 47 yr, male). Instrument result puts me at 2247, but I ate a 1/2 bag of potato chips last night, so a spike is expected. Over the past year my low point was at 1850 and my highest point was 2478, but my weight also was ~235 at that time.2 -
drockncrisso wrote: »I can't remember who asked it- but yes, I did get my vitamin D levels tested and I was really low, so I am supplementing that as well.
I know the RMR test and the extrapolated TDEE won't be 100% accurate, but I am just looking for something closer to accurate than my typing my age, height and weight into a website. I figure, the closer I can get to accurate, the better.
Speaking as someone who has tested myself and other patients thousands of times you may be surprised with how accurate that website calculation is.
http://www.bmi-calculator.net/bmr-calculator/
This calculator put me at 2051 (6'4", 215 lb, 47 yr, male). Instrument result puts me at 2247, but I ate a 1/2 bag of potato chips last night, so a spike is expected. Over the past year my low point was at 1850 and my highest point was 2478, but my weight also was ~235 at that time.
says my BMR is 1515. no way its that high. with all the data I have over the years my BMR is about 1272. Im eating 1580 calories net per day(or less). and I have been maintaining my weight for the last 3 months.I averaged my tdee out to be 1971. and I eat on average that amount of calories before exercise. even when I dropped my calories down to 1300+ before exercise I wasnt losing anything.I guess Im an outlier(not sure if it has to do with my metabolic issue or not).0 -
To me, it sounds like you're doing a lot of activity and taking in a small amount of food. I would eat 1200 calories a day and not exercise for a week and see how your body responds.0
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fromnebraska wrote: »To me, it sounds like you're doing a lot of activity and taking in a small amount of food. I would eat 1200 calories a day and not exercise for a week and see how your body responds.
thing is with a thyroid issue if your levels are not where they should be it makes losing weight hard for many people. she can try that. and 1200 is the absolute minimum to eat. no one should be eating less than that unless they are short,sedentary,elderly or an outlier. or under tha care of a dr. my daughter ate less than 1200 calories most days (we were weighing and tracking everything,she is also obese) and she still lost no weight. her thyroid levels still havent balanced out as of yet.they keep raising. so her endo told her not to try to lose weight until they can get her levels stable,but to continue to be active and trying to eat as best as she can.
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Update- I’m not sure it’s the thyroid meds- since I’ve only been on them for 3 weeks now, but my plateau has broken. After 3 mos of stuck at 150- I’m now down to 147, maybe that’s the hypothyroid excess fluid being corrected? Or maybe my body decided to cooperate, lol. I’m eating an average of 1400 (total, not net) a day lately, with 200-500 cals burned (I’m under estimating what Fitbit is telling me) from exercise. I feel more relaxed, not sticking so rigidly to 1200- so my reduced stress might be helping, too. I can’t imagine the hormones have kicked in already, maybe it’s placebo right now, but I’m certainly not going to complain.5
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drockncrisso wrote: »Update- I’m not sure it’s the thyroid meds- since I’ve only been on them for 3 weeks now, but my plateau has broken. After 3 mos of stuck at 150- I’m now down to 147, maybe that’s the hypothyroid excess fluid being corrected? Or maybe my body decided to cooperate, lol. I’m eating an average of 1400 (total, not net) a day lately, with 200-500 cals burned (I’m under estimating what Fitbit is telling me) from exercise. I feel more relaxed, not sticking so rigidly to 1200- so my reduced stress might be helping, too. I can’t imagine the hormones have kicked in already, maybe it’s placebo right now, but I’m certainly not going to complain.
Love it! Keep it up!
Yeah - don't fret about success. The impact stress has is incredible - also nearly impossible to quantify as it is completely subjective. I've watched patients go from perfectly healthy to near death simply due to stress. It is critical to develop coping mechanisms to de-stress yourself and keep these as part of your routine.4
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