CICO - it’s truly that simple!!!
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witchaywoman81 wrote: »Some of the responses feel like a case of overthinking, which isn’t surpsring considering that was the entire premise of this thread, how people tend to complicate what it takes to lose weight.
Again, all I’m saying is that if you eat in a calorie deficit, you WILL lose weight. It’s probably not going to be, for example, 1.5 pounds a week every single week (that’s what my current goal in MFP is) but it WILL come off. In no way was I implying that weight loss is linear, but that you don’t have to eat special food or go on a special diet. It’s all about deficits. Nothing more, nothing less.
Of course, I’m also not saying that you should eat nothing but chips all day, and it’s “fine” as long as you’re in a deficit. Sure, you might lose weight, but would it make you healthy and strong? Probably not.
I remember my first day, sophomore year of college. I was an International Business major...this particular class was literally called BA201. It was the only large classroom my four years there. Anyway, the professor walks in and writes K.I.S.S. on the chalk board (this is 1986 - so there was none of this 'white board' and 'on-line class' stuff yet) and I am sitting in between two very attractive co-eds. I am thinking to myself, "I am going to love this class".
Well, slow your roll, turbo! This K.I.S.S. stood for Keep It Simple, Stupid!
Anyway, not getting too smart for our own good is something that a lot of us - myself included at times - need to stop doing. If you ask me....and, since no one did, I will just put that out there.8 -
@LiftHeavyThings27105 yep, the KISS method definitely applies here!0
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CICO implies (to me at least) that weight loss is linear. That it’s nothing more that entering numbers into a spreadsheet. Well my expirence has not been that. Many times I have ended the week with my 3500 cal deficit. Did I always lose a pound??? Of course not. Have gained at that deficit- yep. So please there are other factors other than simple math. It is not simple math and simple calorie counting.
I promise two people who are the exact age and weight and build same exercise level could eat exactly the same thing and same amt in a week and they will not gain and lose at the exact same rate.
Therefore it is not an exact measurement that so many on here claim. If so no one would ever complain about plateaus. But they do. All the time. Which tells me there are other factors at play other than simple calorie counting. Far too many people struggle with weight for it to be that simple.
There are too many people who do all the right things and still fail. I do not buy simple solutions in the face of so many people who fail. They are not all doing it wrong if it’s as simple as CICO.
This would make sense if your weight were determined on only your body mass. There are many other factors that affect weight, such as water retention, bowel movements, etc. Can you eat in a deficit and “gain” weight? Yes, but that weight is not fat nor muscle, it’s most likely water or waste. The reason so many people gain or plateau has nothing to do with the factuality of CICO, but rather logging inaccuracies or changes in diet (Ex: increased sodium=water retention=“weight gain” but not really) or just the body fluctuating normally.
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witchaywoman81 wrote: »@LiftHeavyThings27105 yep, the KISS method definitely applies here!
Yes, ma'am! It sure does.1 -
I know what you mean. There is so much information out there! Eat less fat, eat less carbs, eat more protein, eat less sugar, eat all natural etc.
I recently overheard my boss, someone I truly respect and who knows a lot about a lot of things tell another co-worker “if you want to lose weight don’t eat anything after 6 o’clock, it’s as simple as that.”
With so much bad info out there it can make your head spin. I was truly surprised when I found out how simple it really is. I mean at 35 I had heard of CICO before but never tried counting. Maybe because it sounded too daunting. I had tried and failed at multiple “diets” though. It almost makes me feel stupid now that the answer was right in front of my face the whole time. While the food I was eating may have been considered “healthy” I was just eating way too damn much of it!3 -
witchaywoman81 wrote: »Let me also add, I think this information can be particularly liberating for someone who has just decided to lose weight but doesn’t know where to start. Maybe their diet isn’t the best, health-wise, right now, but as a first step, they can eat what they normally eat at a calorie deficit, then gradually work in healthier choices. It can be intimidating to think that they have to go on a special diet or eat foods they don’t enjoy.
Generally speaking eating less and losing weight is immediately healthier regardless of the food because weight causes health problems. Your best shot at good health is a mixture of weight loss and a varied diet but it is not required initially.
ETA: "Generally speaking" because it is true there will always be exceptions.
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witchaywoman81 wrote: »Let me also add, I think this information can be particularly liberating for someone who has just decided to lose weight but doesn’t know where to start. Maybe their diet isn’t the best, health-wise, right now, but as a first step, they can eat what they normally eat at a calorie deficit, then gradually work in healthier choices. It can be intimidating to think that they have to go on a special diet or eat foods they don’t enjoy.
Eating less and losing weight is immediately healthier regardless of the food because weight causes health problems. Your best shot at good health is a mixture of weight loss and a varied diet but it is not required initially
Agreed - in concept. Most people would agree that the following statement is generally true (I believe....and not trying to put any words in anyone's mouth): If you can reduce your body weight by 10% you just took a great first step to significantly better health.
Granted, that is a very general statement...and clearly one size does not fit all. But, conceptually, I believe this to be generally very true.6 -
LiftHeavyThings27105 wrote: »witchaywoman81 wrote: »Let me also add, I think this information can be particularly liberating for someone who has just decided to lose weight but doesn’t know where to start. Maybe their diet isn’t the best, health-wise, right now, but as a first step, they can eat what they normally eat at a calorie deficit, then gradually work in healthier choices. It can be intimidating to think that they have to go on a special diet or eat foods they don’t enjoy.
Eating less and losing weight is immediately healthier regardless of the food because weight causes health problems. Your best shot at good health is a mixture of weight loss and a varied diet but it is not required initially
Agreed - in concept. Most people would agree that the following statement is generally true (I believe....and not trying to put any words in anyone's mouth): If you can reduce your body weight by 10% you just took a great first step to significantly better health.
Granted, that is a very general statement...and clearly one size does not fit all. But, conceptually, I believe this to be generally very true.
True. Edited accordingly.
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I think the difficult part about this is calculating calorie burn. You should be able to get a good estimate of your calorie burn based on activity, age, weight, body fat etc but some people burn significantly less than expected when using calculators.0
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Why complicated? We've done this as justification to remove personal responsibility, deprioritize health and our future for instant gratification, then fix this with late night cram sessions before the night of the big exam. This is further complicated by those looking to profit off of those looking to complicate things.
Calorie counting is simple long term management of a life long struggle. It's budget management, only budgeting calories.
...and I would agree. There is nothing more liberating than realizing that you are in control of your own destiny.
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I think the difficult part about this is calculating calorie burn. You should be able to get a good estimate of your calorie burn based on activity, age, weight, body fat etc but some people burn significantly less than expected when using calculators.
And some people burn significantly more than expected when using "calculators", because statistics.
So we all start with a calculator estimate, and adjust based on personal results. Pretty simple. Not necessarily easy, but simple.8 -
CICO implies (to me at least) that weight loss is linear. That it’s nothing more that entering numbers into a spreadsheet. Well my expirence has not been that. Many times I have ended the week with my 3500 cal deficit. Did I always lose a pound??? Of course not. Have gained at that deficit- yep. So please there are other factors other than simple math. It is not simple math and simple calorie counting.
I promise two people who are the exact age and weight and build same exercise level could eat exactly the same thing and same amt in a week and they will not gain and lose at the exact same rate.
Therefore it is not an exact measurement that so many on here claim. If so no one would ever complain about plateaus. But they do. All the time. Which tells me there are other factors at play other than simple calorie counting. Far too many people struggle with weight for it to be that simple.
There are too many people who do all the right things and still fail. I do not buy simple solutions in the face of so many people who fail. They are not all doing it wrong if it’s as simple as CICO.
It doesn't imply that weight loss is linear. Weight loss cannot be linear because body weight on the scale fluctuates naturally...you are comprised of anywhere between 50-60% water and that's always going to fluctuate and show up on a scale...you're always going to have variable degrees of waste in your system, etc.
People fail because it's hard...hard doesn't mean it's not simple.8 -
CICO implies (to me at least) that weight loss is linear. That it’s nothing more that entering numbers into a spreadsheet. Well my expirence has not been that. Many times I have ended the week with my 3500 cal deficit. Did I always lose a pound??? Of course not. Have gained at that deficit- yep. So please there are other factors other than simple math. It is not simple math and simple calorie counting.
I promise two people who are the exact age and weight and build same exercise level could eat exactly the same thing and same amt in a week and they will not gain and lose at the exact same rate.
Therefore it is not an exact measurement that so many on here claim. If so no one would ever complain about plateaus. But they do. All the time. Which tells me there are other factors at play other than simple calorie counting. Far too many people struggle with weight for it to be that simple.
There are too many people who do all the right things and still fail. I do not buy simple solutions in the face of so many people who fail. They are not all doing it wrong if it’s as simple as CICO.
People who complain about CICO seem to believe that the amount of calories they burn every day is exactly the same day to day....which is, you know crazy?
How can you even think that?
Every day your NEAT can vary by hundreds of calories.7 -
Although I agree with the message I have to say if you have only been tracking for 5 days then the fact that your weight loss lines up exactly with your predictions is more likely coincidence than anything else.
Keep it up though...I just am concerned that your "high" of having things work out over the span of a couple of days will be met with an equally big "low" when for a week or so you gain weight despite continuing your plan...which will happen. Might want to temper your expectations a bit and understand that the trends will pan out on the scale of months but not days.10 -
CICO implies (to me at least) that weight loss is linear. That it’s nothing more that entering numbers into a spreadsheet. Well my expirence has not been that. Many times I have ended the week with my 3500 cal deficit. Did I always lose a pound??? Of course not. Have gained at that deficit- yep. So please there are other factors other than simple math. It is not simple math and simple calorie counting.
I promise two people who are the exact age and weight and build same exercise level could eat exactly the same thing and same amt in a week and they will not gain and lose at the exact same rate.
Therefore it is not an exact measurement that so many on here claim. If so no one would ever complain about plateaus. But they do. All the time. Which tells me there are other factors at play other than simple calorie counting. Far too many people struggle with weight for it to be that simple.
There are too many people who do all the right things and still fail. I do not buy simple solutions in the face of so many people who fail. They are not all doing it wrong if it’s as simple as CICO.
Once again it's not a flaw with the principle, but your understanding. Makes me wonder why you or anyone would want to believe that CICO doesn't work...despite all evidence to the contrary.
Quite often it's an error in the data that is being entered into the spreadsheet, typically being underestimation of food ingested or an overestimation of exercise.
It's exact as is needs to be. The level of precision and accuracy you desire is not required and is not suitable for purpose. There are limits to genetic variance and while the numbers may not be exact, they are less than the degree of instrumentation error and for all intents and purposes...meaningless.
There are many people who cannot accept that they may be doing something wrong. There is a mountain of objective evidence suggesting this versus your suggestion of a failure in biochemical pathways.6 -
I think the difficult part about this is calculating calorie burn. You should be able to get a good estimate of your calorie burn based on activity, age, weight, body fat etc but some people burn significantly less than expected when using calculators.
And some people burn significantly more than expected when using "calculators", because statistics.
So we all start with a calculator estimate, and adjust based on personal results. Pretty simple. Not necessarily easy, but simple.
Exactly. Calculators are based on extrapolations from population averages, they provide a starting point not necessarily an end point.2 -
I think the difficult part about this is calculating calorie burn. You should be able to get a good estimate of your calorie burn based on activity, age, weight, body fat etc but some people burn significantly less than expected when using calculators.
Calculators are just giving you a reasonable starting point based on population statistics...they aren't gospel. Logically, how could a calculator be 100% right?
They give you a starting point...it's up to you to make adjustments per your actual results.
Beyond that, the biggest issue for most people is accurately logging...picking erroneous entries...eyeballing portions...not logging certain things, etc. Most people are for *kitten* when it comes to keeping a food diary.4 -
Aaron_K123 wrote: »Although I agree with the message I have to say if you have only been tracking for 5 days then the fact that your weight loss lines up exactly with your predictions is more likely coincidence than anything else.
Keep it up though...I just am concerned that your "high" of having things work out over the span of a couple of days will be met with an equally big "low" when for a week or so you gain weight despite continuing your plan...which will happen. Might want to temper your expectations a bit and understand that the trends will pan out on the scale of months but not days.Aaron_K123 wrote: »Although I agree with the message I have to say if you have only been tracking for 5 days then the fact that your weight loss lines up exactly with your predictions is more likely coincidence than anything else.
Keep it up though...I just am concerned that your "high" of having things work out over the span of a couple of days will be met with an equally big "low" when for a week or so you gain weight despite continuing your plan...which will happen. Might want to temper your expectations a bit and understand that the trends will pan out on the scale of months but not days.
Well, a couple things on this:
1) I am a daily weigher. I’ve found that if I weigh only once a week it causes me to “trick” the scale or avoid it altogether. Daily weighing helps keep me accountable and keeps me from being “afraid” of the scale.
2) Related to the above, I lost 4 pounds in 3 days, which is unheard of for me. But then I gained 2 pounds back. Am I freaked out by this? Nah. I know fluctuations will happen, and I’m ok with that.
People seem to misunderstand the intent of my message. I’m not saying cico is a magic bullet, but it’s than fretting about macros, carbs, or whatever. And it’s not linear, and again, totally ok with that.
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CICO implies (to me at least) that weight loss is linear. That it’s nothing more that entering numbers into a spreadsheet. Well my expirence has not been that. Many times I have ended the week with my 3500 cal deficit. Did I always lose a pound??? Of course not. Have gained at that deficit- yep. So please there are other factors other than simple math. It is not simple math and simple calorie counting.
I promise two people who are the exact age and weight and build same exercise level could eat exactly the same thing and same amt in a week and they will not gain and lose at the exact same rate.
Therefore it is not an exact measurement that so many on here claim. If so no one would ever complain about plateaus. But they do. All the time. Which tells me there are other factors at play other than simple calorie counting. Far too many people struggle with weight for it to be that simple.
There are too many people who do all the right things and still fail. I do not buy simple solutions in the face of so many people who fail. They are not all doing it wrong if it’s as simple as CICO.
Once again it's not a flaw with the principle, but your understanding. Makes me wonder why you or anyone would want to believe that CICO doesn't work...despite all evidence to the contrary.
Quite often it's an error in the data that is being entered into the spreadsheet, typically being underestimation of food ingested or an overestimation of exercise.
It's exact as is needs to be. The level of precision and accuracy you desire is not required and is not suitable for purpose. There are limits to genetic variance and while the numbers may not be exact, they are less than the degree of instrumentation error and for all intents and purposes...meaningless.
There are many people who cannot accept that they may be doing something wrong. There is a mountain of objective evidence suggesting this versus your suggestion of a failure in biochemical pathways.
All of this. Exactly!
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witchaywoman81 wrote: »Let me also add, I think this information can be particularly liberating for someone who has just decided to lose weight but doesn’t know where to start. Maybe their diet isn’t the best, health-wise, right now, but as a first step, they can eat what they normally eat at a calorie deficit, then gradually work in healthier choices. It can be intimidating to think that they have to go on a special diet or eat foods they don’t enjoy.
Amen. This is how I started. Really, I started loosely guessing what I was eating and guessing at the calories. After reading about food scales and weighing things I started doing that. After I got that under control I started incorporating healthier foods. I lost 50 pounds in six months.
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