Extremely bony upper chest, really hate it.
PlaceboFX
Posts: 38 Member
So I'm a female, 24, 5'9, around 145 pounds.
I'm slender, but not overly. Still have a pretty soft tummy. I do lift weights, and have some decent muscle tone all over (except my tummy).
But despite not being bony ANYWHERE else on my body, my upper chest is just horrid looking, at least in my eyes. Below my collarbone and right above my bust is sooo bony. My breast also have sagged a little bit since my 50lb weight loss, so that doesn't help things either.
I'm incredibly self conscious about it, and don't know how to fix it. I'm not about to put on weight just to hide it, especially because I'm not at all underweight. I already do chest exercises (bench presses, dumbbell flies, and push-ups), so I really don't know what else to do.
Is there any way to fix this?
I'm slender, but not overly. Still have a pretty soft tummy. I do lift weights, and have some decent muscle tone all over (except my tummy).
But despite not being bony ANYWHERE else on my body, my upper chest is just horrid looking, at least in my eyes. Below my collarbone and right above my bust is sooo bony. My breast also have sagged a little bit since my 50lb weight loss, so that doesn't help things either.
I'm incredibly self conscious about it, and don't know how to fix it. I'm not about to put on weight just to hide it, especially because I'm not at all underweight. I already do chest exercises (bench presses, dumbbell flies, and push-ups), so I really don't know what else to do.
Is there any way to fix this?
3
Replies
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How heavy are you pressing, and are you gradually adding weight or reps?2
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So I'm a female, 24, 5'9, around 145 pounds.
I'm slender, but not overly. Still have a pretty soft tummy. I do lift weights, and have some decent muscle tone all over (except my tummy).
But despite not being bony ANYWHERE else on my body, my upper chest is just horrid looking, at least in my eyes. Below my collarbone and right above my bust is sooo bony. My breast also have sagged a little bit since my 50lb weight loss, so that doesn't help things either.
I'm incredibly self conscious about it, and don't know how to fix it. I'm not about to put on weight just to hide it, especially because I'm not at all underweight. I already do chest exercises (bench presses, dumbbell flies, and push-ups), so I really don't know what else to do.
Is there any way to fix this?
Can you post a pic? I’m 5’7” and 133 lbs. I have a very defined collarbone and I actually like it. What is the your ultimate goal?
I don't think it's the collarbone that bothers her so much as the sternum. I'm the same way OP. I don't store fat above my belly button. You are on the right track. Building your pecs up is about the only thing you can do, although it will still probably show. Also look for concealing clothes. The high neck halter swimsuits are perfect for hiding the sternum. Don't wear shirts with plunging necklines. A little extra fat doesn't hurt either.
Too lean on the left compared to a little extra fat and a lot more pec on the right.
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mom23mangos wrote: »So I'm a female, 24, 5'9, around 145 pounds.
I'm slender, but not overly. Still have a pretty soft tummy. I do lift weights, and have some decent muscle tone all over (except my tummy).
But despite not being bony ANYWHERE else on my body, my upper chest is just horrid looking, at least in my eyes. Below my collarbone and right above my bust is sooo bony. My breast also have sagged a little bit since my 50lb weight loss, so that doesn't help things either.
I'm incredibly self conscious about it, and don't know how to fix it. I'm not about to put on weight just to hide it, especially because I'm not at all underweight. I already do chest exercises (bench presses, dumbbell flies, and push-ups), so I really don't know what else to do.
Is there any way to fix this?
Can you post a pic? I’m 5’7” and 133 lbs. I have a very defined collarbone and I actually like it. What is the your ultimate goal?
I don't think it's the collarbone that bothers her so much as the sternum. I'm the same way OP. I don't store fat above my belly button. You are on the right track. Building your pecs up is about the only thing you can do, although it will still probably show. Also look for concealing clothes. The high neck halter swimsuits are perfect for hiding the sternum. Don't wear shirts with plunging necklines. A little extra fat doesn't hurt either.
Too lean on the left compared to a little extra fat and a lot more pec on the right.
Oh my goodness yes, the left is very close to my chest. Though I think mine's even a little more prominent. Unfortunately I DO store fat right above my belly button, just this little pouch.
That's a super inspiring before and after though. You look amazing!! What are your favorite chest exercises?
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DancingMoosie wrote: »How heavy are you pressing, and are you gradually adding weight or reps?
I've been stuck at about 60 pounds on my bench press, which I know isn't particularly impressive. I dunno if I need to try a bulk or not to increase that weight.
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Unfortunately I had to stop all chest exercises for about 6 months due to shoulder impingement, so the main thing I can say is make sure you are using proper form when benching and don't neglect your rotator cuff. As for chest exercises, dips is probably my favorite, followed by push-ups and cable exercises (press, fly, crossovers). I've added those back in, but have not gone back to benching. Not sure if I ever will.5
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Just try to gradually add weight or reps to all of your chest exercises. You can bulk a little or try to recomp. My chest is really bony too if I lose too much weight, but I've gained a little and kept up with my bench press. I also try to add in some pushups and pec fly, but bench is my main chest exercise.1
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DancingMoosie wrote: »How heavy are you pressing, and are you gradually adding weight or reps?
I've been stuck at about 60 pounds on my bench press, which I know isn't particularly impressive. I dunno if I need to try a bulk or not to increase that weight.
It could be form and or stength? The bench press is the most responsive lift when it comes to weight gain, but that doesn't automatically mean your chest is growing.0 -
I get that bony look with significant weight loss--and a big hollow spot at about the xiphoid process. That's my sign I'm "too thin." Haven't been there since 1993, so I'm not going to worry about it right now, haha. But I do know what you mean (and my breasts shrink to mosquito bites at the same time, so there's that, too). Good to know that some upper body exercise can help a bit.1
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I’ve noticed that when I lose weight my sternum is very prominent but as I maintain it kind of disappears. Almost like my body fat re-distributes more evenly when my weight is stable. You and I have almost the exact same stats! I’m also female, 24, 5’ 9” and have lost 50 in the last year ( a little longer). But I’m stuck maintaining between 150-155 for the last 5 months and I’m trying to get to 140. Would you be willing to share what your diet/calories and exercise routine look like?2
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DancingMoosie wrote: »How heavy are you pressing, and are you gradually adding weight or reps?
I've been stuck at about 60 pounds on my bench press, which I know isn't particularly impressive. I dunno if I need to try a bulk or not to increase that weight.
I would not knock 60lbs. Most women do not have upper body strength. Not all, just most. And most women (well, might catch some flack for the use of "most" here....) do not train chest. They seem to fear that they will loose their boobs. Not likely gonna happen, but I can not change that thought process.
Work at it slowly. Increase the weight slowly and soon 65lbs will be on the bar, and then 70lbs and then 75lbs.
What does an upper body training session look like for you?0 -
mariececilia10 wrote: »I’ve noticed that when I lose weight my sternum is very prominent but as I maintain it kind of disappears. Almost like my body fat re-distributes more evenly when my weight is stable. You and I have almost the exact same stats! I’m also female, 24, 5’ 9” and have lost 50 in the last year ( a little longer). But I’m stuck maintaining between 150-155 for the last 5 months and I’m trying to get to 140. Would you be willing to share what your diet/calories and exercise routine look like?
Very general comment.....
Someone else's diet | caloric intake will not likely do you (or anyone else, for that matter) any good. Everyone is different and two people with the exact same stats may have very different macros (let's just call it that). I am sure you are just looking to compare, but lots of people (and not counting you in that group) copy someone else's stuff (which is almost never a good idea).
Now, you stated that you have been stuck for the last five months. Have you looked at a Diet Break? For a few days or even for a week? Or, have you added "Re-feed" days (two consecutive days)?
You might want to investigate those two ideas and see if that makes sense for you. Essentially, both are as much mental breaks as physical.0 -
LiftHeavyThings27105 wrote: »DancingMoosie wrote: »How heavy are you pressing, and are you gradually adding weight or reps?
I've been stuck at about 60 pounds on my bench press, which I know isn't particularly impressive. I dunno if I need to try a bulk or not to increase that weight.
I would not knock 60lbs. Most women do not have upper body strength. Not all, just most. And most women (well, might catch some flack for the use of "most" here....) do not train chest. They seem to fear that they will loose their boobs. Not likely gonna happen, but I can not change that thought process.
Work at it slowly. Increase the weight slowly and soon 65lbs will be on the bar, and then 70lbs and then 75lbs.
What does an upper body training session look like for you?
Ugh, therein lies part of the problem. I go to stupid Planet Fitness, because it's all we can afford right now, and their barbells only go up to 60lbs. If you wanna go higher, you have to use the smith machine bench presses, which I've heard are pretty useless.
Are dumbbell presses just as effective though? Because those go up to I think 90lbs PER dumbbell.0 -
LiftHeavyThings27105 wrote: »DancingMoosie wrote: »How heavy are you pressing, and are you gradually adding weight or reps?
I've been stuck at about 60 pounds on my bench press, which I know isn't particularly impressive. I dunno if I need to try a bulk or not to increase that weight.
I would not knock 60lbs. Most women do not have upper body strength. Not all, just most. And most women (well, might catch some flack for the use of "most" here....) do not train chest. They seem to fear that they will loose their boobs. Not likely gonna happen, but I can not change that thought process.
Work at it slowly. Increase the weight slowly and soon 65lbs will be on the bar, and then 70lbs and then 75lbs.
What does an upper body training session look like for you?
Oh, and to answer your question, I generally do chest with shoulders and triceps. I used to split each muscle group into its own day, but nowadays it's a lot harder for me to get to the gym, so I can only do 3-4 days a week.
So on those days, I'll actually start with my chest and do 10 reps/3-5 sets of incline dumbbell presses, barbell bench presses, and either push-ups or dumbbell flies, resting one minute between each exercise, before moving onto shoulders.
I'll be honest though, I very rarely actually feel it in my chest. I'm usually only sore right in front of my armpits. I've researched the proper form for all these exercises, and feel like I'm doing them correctly, but perhaps not.
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LiftHeavyThings27105 wrote: »DancingMoosie wrote: »How heavy are you pressing, and are you gradually adding weight or reps?
I've been stuck at about 60 pounds on my bench press, which I know isn't particularly impressive. I dunno if I need to try a bulk or not to increase that weight.
I would not knock 60lbs. Most women do not have upper body strength. Not all, just most. And most women (well, might catch some flack for the use of "most" here....) do not train chest. They seem to fear that they will loose their boobs. Not likely gonna happen, but I can not change that thought process.
Work at it slowly. Increase the weight slowly and soon 65lbs will be on the bar, and then 70lbs and then 75lbs.
What does an upper body training session look like for you?
Ugh, therein lies part of the problem. I go to stupid Planet Fitness, because it's all we can afford right now, and their barbells only go up to 60lbs. If you wanna go higher, you have to use the smith machine bench presses, which I've heard are pretty useless.
Are dumbbell presses just as effective though? Because those go up to I think 90lbs PER dumbbell.
I know the barbells of which you speak! The crooked ones and the straight ones! LOL! I go to the Planet Fitness on Reynolda here in Winston-Salem. I actually enjoy it there. I was doing powerlifting so I left Planet Fitness for about 18 months but came back to PF after I kept on injuring myself (poor programming....done by yours truly). Anyway,,,
So, to answer your question about the smith machines....
Honestly, I am not a fan. And the simple reason that I am not a fan of the smith machines is because they simply take all of the stabilizers out of the equation. The smith machine barbell is on a track (so-to-speak) so there will never be any "front - back" motion or "up - down" motion that you would need to "control" if you were on a real bench. But......
If the smith machine is all they have, then by all means use it! I do squats (light) and Bench (not so light) on the smith machines. It is what it is....
And, I LOVE dumbbells. So, if you can use the dumbbells to do both flat and inclined bench (both exercises target different sections of the chest) then by all means I would encourage you to do that. You can get a better range of motion and a better stretch with dumbbells. Sure, you can load more weight on the barbell, and that is definitely a thing. But, you get the far superior RoM with the dumbbells. Consider doing that as well......1 -
LiftHeavyThings27105 wrote: »DancingMoosie wrote: »How heavy are you pressing, and are you gradually adding weight or reps?
I've been stuck at about 60 pounds on my bench press, which I know isn't particularly impressive. I dunno if I need to try a bulk or not to increase that weight.
I would not knock 60lbs. Most women do not have upper body strength. Not all, just most. And most women (well, might catch some flack for the use of "most" here....) do not train chest. They seem to fear that they will loose their boobs. Not likely gonna happen, but I can not change that thought process.
Work at it slowly. Increase the weight slowly and soon 65lbs will be on the bar, and then 70lbs and then 75lbs.
What does an upper body training session look like for you?
Ugh, therein lies part of the problem. I go to stupid Planet Fitness, because it's all we can afford right now, and their barbells only go up to 60lbs. If you wanna go higher, you have to use the smith machine bench presses, which I've heard are pretty useless.
Are dumbbell presses just as effective though? Because those go up to I think 90lbs PER dumbbell.
Yes. Just make sure you do a press and not a fly. Meaning keep them close and tight. If you're at 60, You'll probably WANT to start with 30s. DON'T!!! Start with 15s or 20s. Get the form right.6 -
LiftHeavyThings27105 wrote: »DancingMoosie wrote: »How heavy are you pressing, and are you gradually adding weight or reps?
I've been stuck at about 60 pounds on my bench press, which I know isn't particularly impressive. I dunno if I need to try a bulk or not to increase that weight.
I would not knock 60lbs. Most women do not have upper body strength. Not all, just most. And most women (well, might catch some flack for the use of "most" here....) do not train chest. They seem to fear that they will loose their boobs. Not likely gonna happen, but I can not change that thought process.
Work at it slowly. Increase the weight slowly and soon 65lbs will be on the bar, and then 70lbs and then 75lbs.
What does an upper body training session look like for you?
Oh, and to answer your question, I generally do chest with shoulders and triceps. I used to split each muscle group into its own day, but nowadays it's a lot harder for me to get to the gym, so I can only do 3-4 days a week.
So on those days, I'll actually start with my chest and do 10 reps/3-5 sets of incline dumbbell presses, barbell bench presses, and either push-ups or dumbbell flies, resting one minute between each exercise, before moving onto shoulders.
I'll be honest though, I very rarely actually feel it in my chest. I'm usually only sore right in front of my armpits. I've researched the proper form for all these exercises, and feel like I'm doing them correctly, but perhaps not.
I do chest and back, but all good. I do shoulders and arms (biceps and triceps) on another day. We are all different....do what works for you!
With the inclined bench you are hitting the top part of your chest and the front delts. The barbell chest (with the straight barbell, I assume) you are getting chest and some front delt. I wonder how wide is your grip with that barbell? They are not too very wide! And the flies....becareful with those! Are you doing the flies on the bench or on the ground?
I would bet that the flies are what are causing you to be sore in front of your arm pits! I am curious as to what others might think?
I would encourage you to consider doing chest on the Smith Machine. The bar weighs something like 15lbs. Consider it. I think that it would really help you.
Regarding form.....take a spin over to Brian Alruhe's youtube site. He has - among a ton of awesome material - three "How To's" Series (one for bench, one for squat and one for deadlifts). I will link that three for Bench. He is my go-to for form (like I have mentioned in several other posts). There are several really good folks for that (Jeff Nippard, Scott Hermann, Jeff Cavalier, et al). Links to follow...1 -
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Are you ME!?
Same exact problem here. I'm 5'7" and hovering around 145lbs right now. When I'm closer to 135-140, my chest looks like Skeletor but I still have a chubby belly and big thighs. It's so weird to see ribs poking out above my boobs.
I'm going to start lifting more weights. Dumbbell flyes should be great for filling in that area with some muscle.1 -
I make use of these "form tips" and "queues" and I do okay for an old man on the bench! A lot better than before I started using these queues and tips. Anyway, have at it! Don't be afraid of the Smith Machines. No - not really idea! But, def better than not doing it!!!!! :-) Have fun! Enjoy!0
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I actually don't do flies too often because they're a little uncomfortable. I've done them on a bench and on the floor, and definitely prefer the floor. But I get sore in my armpits even after just bench presses! I think I've gotta really work on my form.
I haven't really considered how wide to have my grip!
Well, today I'm working my chest, so I'll try the Smith machine and see if maybe I feel it in my chest a little more. Thank you sooo so much for your advice! I'll beat this bony chest once and for all! 😜
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I have the same kind of issue - my body just chooses to pull fat from my upper body, so I have a tendency to develop very visible ribs and sternum when I drop fat.
Bench, bench, bench. Depending on your program, it probably wouldn't hurt to do several variants over the course of the week (Smith, barbell, dumbbell, etc.)
Also, investing in a set of microplates is a fantastic idea, especially if your gym doesn't have 2.5lb plates. (Even if they do, at a certain point, using two of those and jumping 5lb starts to get difficult). I just carry them around with me in my gym bag.1 -
You are most welcome. Glad to help!
With the smith machine bench press, it is really easy to start the movement with the bar "too high". Meaning, that the bar is almost at your neck! As I like to say, "No bueno!".
The bar should be right in the middle of your chest (if you were not a woman I would say right in line with your nipples, but you are, so I will not say that). Find what feels best to you (we are all a little bit different). And, I would encourage you to just use the bar at first to get situated (those dang benches - the ones where you can adjust both the back part and the butt part - can feel awkward if not perfectly flat) and to do a few practice movements.
What I find most helpful (and I do not want to lay too much on you all at once) is to use the queue that you are not really pushing the bar up, you are actually pushing your back through the bench down towards the floor. It is funny how these little things can make HUGE differences.
Anyway, I am rambling at this point.....enjoy and kick *kitten*!1 -
I actually don't do flies too often because they're a little uncomfortable. I've done them on a bench and on the floor, and definitely prefer the floor. But I get sore in my armpits even after just bench presses! I think I've gotta really work on my form.
I haven't really considered how wide to have my grip!
Well, today I'm working my chest, so I'll try the Smith machine and see if maybe I feel it in my chest a little more. Thank you sooo so much for your advice! I'll beat this bony chest once and for all! 😜
I use dumbbells for flies and chest press. I use much less weight for flies - maybe they are uncomfortable for you because you are starting with too much weight?
Also, you can't get a full range of motion on the floor - there's not enough room for your elbows.
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LiftHeavyThings27105 wrote: »mariececilia10 wrote: »I’ve noticed that when I lose weight my sternum is very prominent but as I maintain it kind of disappears. Almost like my body fat re-distributes more evenly when my weight is stable. You and I have almost the exact same stats! I’m also female, 24, 5’ 9” and have lost 50 in the last year ( a little longer). But I’m stuck maintaining between 150-155 for the last 5 months and I’m trying to get to 140. Would you be willing to share what your diet/calories and exercise routine look like?
Very general comment.....
Someone else's diet | caloric intake will not likely do you (or anyone else, for that matter) any good. Everyone is different and two people with the exact same stats may have very different macros (let's just call it that). I am sure you are just looking to compare, but lots of people (and not counting you in that group) copy someone else's stuff (which is almost never a good idea).
Now, you stated that you have been stuck for the last five months. Have you looked at a Diet Break? For a few days or even for a week? Or, have you added "Re-feed" days (two consecutive days)?
You might want to investigate those two ideas and see if that makes sense for you. Essentially, both are as much mental breaks as physical.
You’re right, I was just curious to know what someone else with similar stats would have as their caloric intake. Also, I believe I’ve been stuck because these last 5 months have pretty much been a diet break :P I haven’t been able to consistently stick to a calorie deficit, which is also why I was curious about the OP’s calories, to have another example of what someone with stats similar to mine would have to maintain at nearly my goal weight. Thanks for your insights
0 -
mariececilia10 wrote: »LiftHeavyThings27105 wrote: »mariececilia10 wrote: »I’ve noticed that when I lose weight my sternum is very prominent but as I maintain it kind of disappears. Almost like my body fat re-distributes more evenly when my weight is stable. You and I have almost the exact same stats! I’m also female, 24, 5’ 9” and have lost 50 in the last year ( a little longer). But I’m stuck maintaining between 150-155 for the last 5 months and I’m trying to get to 140. Would you be willing to share what your diet/calories and exercise routine look like?
Very general comment.....
Someone else's diet | caloric intake will not likely do you (or anyone else, for that matter) any good. Everyone is different and two people with the exact same stats may have very different macros (let's just call it that). I am sure you are just looking to compare, but lots of people (and not counting you in that group) copy someone else's stuff (which is almost never a good idea).
Now, you stated that you have been stuck for the last five months. Have you looked at a Diet Break? For a few days or even for a week? Or, have you added "Re-feed" days (two consecutive days)?
You might want to investigate those two ideas and see if that makes sense for you. Essentially, both are as much mental breaks as physical.
You’re right, I was just curious to know what someone else with similar stats would have as their caloric intake. Also, I believe I’ve been stuck because these last 5 months have pretty much been a diet break :P I haven’t been able to consistently stick to a calorie deficit, which is also why I was curious about the OP’s calories, to have another example of what someone with stats similar to mine would have to maintain at nearly my goal weight. Thanks for your insights
Ah, ha! Consistency! Awesome when you can find it......sucks when you lose it! Okay....and thank you for not being offended by my comments. I was truly coming from a good place when I asked these questions. I see all the time people trying to copy someone else's caloric intake | macros with no other reason that "just because....she looks great! I want to look great, too!". Anyway, seems like you have a very firm grasp on that....
I truly hope that these last five months have been super enjoyable (referencing life....) and that you are able to get down to your target weight (range) as quickly and as safely as possible!2 -
I have the same kind of issue - my body just chooses to pull fat from my upper body, so I have a tendency to develop very visible ribs and sternum when I drop fat.
Bench, bench, bench. Depending on your program, it probably wouldn't hurt to do several variants over the course of the week (Smith, barbell, dumbbell, etc.)
Also, investing in a set of microplates is a fantastic idea, especially if your gym doesn't have 2.5lb plates. (Even if they do, at a certain point, using two of those and jumping 5lb starts to get difficult). I just carry them around with me in my gym bag.
She, as I do, does her training at Planet Fitness. They have a *kitten*ton of 2.5lbs plates! :-)1 -
LiftHeavyThings27105 wrote: »I have the same kind of issue - my body just chooses to pull fat from my upper body, so I have a tendency to develop very visible ribs and sternum when I drop fat.
Bench, bench, bench. Depending on your program, it probably wouldn't hurt to do several variants over the course of the week (Smith, barbell, dumbbell, etc.)
Also, investing in a set of microplates is a fantastic idea, especially if your gym doesn't have 2.5lb plates. (Even if they do, at a certain point, using two of those and jumping 5lb starts to get difficult). I just carry them around with me in my gym bag.
She, as I do, does her training at Planet Fitness. They have a *kitten*ton of 2.5lbs plates! :-)
I still find that having 1lb and 1.25lb plates is really helpful. I struggled for a long time with being able to do, say, 5-6 reps at a certain weight but only being able to do 1 or 2 reps when I went up by 5lbs. My microplates just gave me a lot more flexibility.1 -
LiftHeavyThings27105 wrote: »mariececilia10 wrote: »LiftHeavyThings27105 wrote: »mariececilia10 wrote: »I’ve noticed that when I lose weight my sternum is very prominent but as I maintain it kind of disappears. Almost like my body fat re-distributes more evenly when my weight is stable. You and I have almost the exact same stats! I’m also female, 24, 5’ 9” and have lost 50 in the last year ( a little longer). But I’m stuck maintaining between 150-155 for the last 5 months and I’m trying to get to 140. Would you be willing to share what your diet/calories and exercise routine look like?
Very general comment.....
Someone else's diet | caloric intake will not likely do you (or anyone else, for that matter) any good. Everyone is different and two people with the exact same stats may have very different macros (let's just call it that). I am sure you are just looking to compare, but lots of people (and not counting you in that group) copy someone else's stuff (which is almost never a good idea).
Now, you stated that you have been stuck for the last five months. Have you looked at a Diet Break? For a few days or even for a week? Or, have you added "Re-feed" days (two consecutive days)?
You might want to investigate those two ideas and see if that makes sense for you. Essentially, both are as much mental breaks as physical.
You’re right, I was just curious to know what someone else with similar stats would have as their caloric intake. Also, I believe I’ve been stuck because these last 5 months have pretty much been a diet break :P I haven’t been able to consistently stick to a calorie deficit, which is also why I was curious about the OP’s calories, to have another example of what someone with stats similar to mine would have to maintain at nearly my goal weight. Thanks for your insights
Ah, ha! Consistency! Awesome when you can find it......sucks when you lose it! Okay....and thank you for not being offended by my comments. I was truly coming from a good place when I asked these questions. I see all the time people trying to copy someone else's caloric intake | macros with no other reason that "just because....she looks great! I want to look great, too!". Anyway, seems like you have a very firm grasp on that....
I truly hope that these last five months have been super enjoyable (referencing life....) and that you are able to get down to your target weight (range) as quickly and as safely as possible!
Thanks so much for your comments! Good luck to you on your journey as well, whatever the stage!0
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