Running and rowing?

mkculs

Greetings. I'm a life-long jogger (even through obesity and smoking). I want to add something that will strengthen the back of my body and my core, and rowing looks like a good choice. Plus, rhythm and scenery are important to me--it's why I prefer jogging, hiking, and walking over weightlifting/weight training.

I have a couple of questions for all the rowers out there. First, will rowing put a strain on my quads and/or knees? They are already strong from the exercise I do and I don't want to over work them.

Second, I have a very cheap mechanical rowing machine I picked up at a garage sale. I cannot afford a boat of any type just now (next summer, for sure, though), and I'm wondering if I really should join a gym to get access to a better rowing machine.

Thanks in advance for your input and expertise.

steveko89

mkculs wrote: »

First, will rowing put a strain on my quads and/or knees?

Rowing certainly works your legs but I wouldn't say it will strain them. Being lower-impact than jogging, it would ultimately be less wear and tear on your knees.

mkculs wrote: »

Second, I have a very cheap mechanical rowing machine I picked up at a garage sale...

It depends on what kind/brand you're talking about. Concept 2 rowers are quasi-legendary for lasting forever if properly maintained and pretty much considered the gold standard of rowing machines. If you've found yourself an older model C2, or something similar with fan-based resistance that's a decent find and that will at least get you started. I'd be leery of anything piston-based, especially if it's been idle collecting dust at someone else's home.

sgt1372

In general, assuming that you are rowing on a well made and well maintained rower AND are rowing w/proper technique and sufficient effort, rowing will give you a better and more efficient workout with less stress on your legs and knees than running or jogging will.

If the rower you bought is anything other than Concept2 (C2) or other high end rower originally costing $900 or more, you should find a gym with a well maintained C2 rower (gym rowers are often worn out and NOT well maintained at all) to compare the experience with the one you purchased.

If you bought a rower that originally cost in the $300-500 MSRP range or less, you should notice a remarkable difference and and will probably want to resell your rower ASAP to get a C2 instead after making the comparison.

mkculs

Thanks for the replies. I'm not sure I was clear in my original post--I want to add rowing to running (alternate days); I'm not planning to ditch the running. Would that change any responses?

MeanderingMammal

mkculs wrote: »

Thanks for the replies. I'm not sure I was clear in my original post--I want to add rowing to running (alternate days); I'm not planning to ditch the running. Would that change any responses?

I run and row. The non weight bearing aspect of rowing means that it is complementary to running. You're not going to overtrain your hand and quads, and you will benefit your core, as described above.

The issue becomes the quality of the machine. Personally I have a Water Rower, which the rowing purists look down on, but it's reliable, zero maintenance and a solid build. I'd share the concerns over a hydraulic or pneumatic piston system.

pondee629

I joined a gym for ALL the equipment they have. Rowers, elipticals, treadmills, stair climbers, squat rack, bench press, dumbbells from 5# to 150#, assisted pull ups, et.al. My gym costs me $22 +/- a month. I priced out ellipticals, and a "good" one costs in excess of $1500 or 68 months at the gym. The gym is a bargain, not to mention that each month I go 12 times my health insurance company pays me $20.00.

mkculs

Thanks again! MeanderingMammal, that's what I was wondering--about doing both. Glad to hear they are compatible.

I get the point about equipment. I typically hate being indoors when I don't have to be, and my love of walking/hiking/running makes the idea of being out on the water appealing. BUT, out on the water ain't gonna happen for a while (at least another year, I expect). In the meantime, I'd love to start rowing and if it means a gym, oh well!

sgt1372

mkculs wrote: »

Thanks for the replies. I'm not sure I was clear in my original post--I want to add rowing to running (alternate days); I'm not planning to ditch the running. Would that change any responses?

Not mine.

If you are a die hard runner, you probably always will be. Rowing will be a fine supplement for days that you can't or don't want to run but, if you find that you enjoy rowing, you will probably want to upgrade your equipment and may even choose to reduce the amount you run in lieu of rowing, because it is so much easier to achieve comparable fitness benefits rowing than running with far less stress on your body.

Personally, I always hated running and never enjoyed spin biking much. Tredmills are insanely boring and walking/hiking outdoors (which I enjoy but inly do occasionally) are too time consuming for too little benefit

All I do now for cardio is row. 10k meters a day in an hr a day that I do in four 12-13 min intervals all at one time or spread out over the day. Easy to do in the convenience of my home at any time 24/7. Works for me.

mkculs

sgt1372 wrote: »

mkculs wrote: »

Thanks for the replies. I'm not sure I was clear in my original post--I want to add rowing to running (alternate days); I'm not planning to ditch the running. Would that change any responses?

Not mine.

If you are a die hard runner, you probably always will be. Rowing will be a fine supplement for days that you can't or don't want to run but, if you find that you enjoy rowing, you will probably want to upgrade your equipment and may even choose to reduce the amount you run in lieu of rowing, because it is so much easier to achieve comparable fitness benefits rowing than running with far less stress on your body.

Personally, I always hated running and never enjoyed spin biking much. Tredmills are insanely boring and walking/hiking outdoors (which I enjoy but inly do occasionally) are too time consuming for too little benefit

All I do now for cardio is row. 10k meters a day in an hr a day that I do in four 12-13 min intervals all at one time or spread out over the day. Easy to do in the convenience of my home at any time 24/7. Works for me.

I'm one of those who would feel blessed to drop dead while running--an easy way to go, doing something I love

Hoping that doesn't happen anytime soon, and maybe someday I'll feel that way about rowing. I need the outdoors, though, and can't imagine I'll find rowing as rewarding for my overall health as I do running. But who knows, right?

Thanks again.

MikePfirrman

I was a runner for around 3/4 years. Enough time to do trail races up to around 7 miles or so (some quite challenging). I loved running and especially outdoors. Running didn't love me. Developed a chronic case of runners knee and did everything you can imagine and couldn't get rid of it. Started doing the Stationary Bike and the Concept2 at the gym and haven't looked back. I do mostly rowing now. I'm a bit "stocky" and muscular -- not a true runner's build at all. But I found that rowing is very, very easy on the joints.

What others have said about machines -- Concept 2 is my first choice by far and then a distant second would be a WaterRower. WaterRowers look nice but the C2 is the Gold standard. I wouldn't do anything but those two. Most LA Fitnesses have C2 machines. A few other large chains do as well. Planet Fitness, I know, doesn't have rowers. They have a weight machine they call a "rower" but it's not a true cardio rower.

I would absolutely love outdoor rowing but don't have the time. Maybe in retirement. Perhaps that would compare to my trail running days, which I miss.

A lot of people don't realize that Meb Keflezighi used a road elliptical to train part of a year when he was injured. I think anything (for a runner) that doesn't add stress to their joints but still builds cardio (and muscle in the case of the rower) is great cross training. I've read articled on Runner's World where running coaches strongly recommend rowing as a great complimentary way to train.

stingrayinfl

it is a good workout..good form is a must

MikePfirrman

Here's the article I was thinking of. All good points in it.

https://www.active.com/running/articles/why-runners-should-be-rowers

mkculs

Thanks again to everyone. I'm excited to get started rowing.

scorpio516

If you live on the US east coast, you might be able to find a single hull for a reasonable price. Here in MA, I see people out rowing on all kinds of water!

You could also look at kayaking. It is easy to slack off on one though!

RadishEater

Rowing will work the quads! So you won't be giving you legs a rest if you alternate running and rowing, but it does work core and back and arms too, most of the power comes from the legs though.

I know for me that if I kill it at my spinning workout on thurs, then go to my fri HIIT class where one circuit is rowing, I definitely am not putting out great row sprints times.

middlehaitch

Calling @AnnPT77.
I hope you don't mind, but I thought your input and experience would be invaluable in this thread.

Sorry, I just use the concept 2 at the gym as my alternate cardio and warm up for lifting in the winter, so not much help.

Cheers, h.

MikePfirrman

I'd encourage you to look at the Concept2 forums for beginner form advice. I'm active on that forum quite a bit and you don't have to own a Concept2 for access (I didn't when I started but do now). There are people that have years of experience and World Record holders, world class (some former Olympic) rowers that will take time out of their day and answer any form related questions you have plus tell you resources for rowing. US Rowing Magazine, if you're wanting to do outdoor rowing is a great resource. You can find clubs that incorporate both indoor workouts and some outdoor training as well without having to go out and buy a boat. You probably wouldn't want to do that without a lot of instruction and work in a quad or double for a while. Outdoor rowing can take years to learn to do properly but I've seen people move from indoor rowing to OTW (over the water) very successfully and do really well in Masters racing. I also know WR holders for indoor records that have never stepped foot in a real boat!

The one video of the woman on the dock rowing (I think it was Australian Concept2) is one of the better ones. On YouTube, DecentRowing and Dark Horse Rowing have some very good instructional videos.

AnnPT77

mkculs wrote: »

sgt1372 wrote: »

mkculs wrote: »

Thanks for the replies. I'm not sure I was clear in my original post--I want to add rowing to running (alternate days); I'm not planning to ditch the running. Would that change any responses?

Not mine.

If you are a die hard runner, you probably always will be. Rowing will be a fine supplement for days that you can't or don't want to run but, if you find that you enjoy rowing, you will probably want to upgrade your equipment and may even choose to reduce the amount you run in lieu of rowing, because it is so much easier to achieve comparable fitness benefits rowing than running with far less stress on your body.

Personally, I always hated running and never enjoyed spin biking much. Tredmills are insanely boring and walking/hiking outdoors (which I enjoy but inly do occasionally) are too time consuming for too little benefit

All I do now for cardio is row. 10k meters a day in an hr a day that I do in four 12-13 min intervals all at one time or spread out over the day. Easy to do in the convenience of my home at any time 24/7. Works for me.

I'm one of those who would feel blessed to drop dead while running--an easy way to go, doing something I love

Hoping that doesn't happen anytime soon, and maybe someday I'll feel that way about rowing. I need the outdoors, though, and can't imagine I'll find rowing as rewarding for my overall health as I do running. But who knows, right?

Thanks again.

Others have given you good advice: Rowing uses a lot of quads, but lacks running's impact. The stresses are very different. Rowing machines that are Concept 2 style (single handle, sliding seat, some form of drag like fan or water tank, etc.), used with correct form, will work your legs, using some of the same muscles as running, but in a somewhat different way. They will also work your core (abs/lower back) and some parts of your arms and back. Be aware that it's unbalanced: All straight-line upper body pull and lower body push. For best fitness results, you want something going that uses some of the opposing muscle groups more, too; and you want some twisting and lateral work as well.

It's summer, so I'm currently rowing on water 4 days a week (M-W-F-Sa) and spinning 2 days (Tu-Th), all of which is fairly quad-heavy, but it's workable (and I'm pretty old, 62, so possibly more vulnerable to overuse problems). I do rowing machine workouts in Winter when the river gets crunchy here, but lower volume, as it just isn't as much fun as boats. (I'm very fun-motivated. ) I don't run because of bad knees.

If you hope to transition some day to on-water rowing, Concept 2 style rowers can teach you some transferable skills, if you make it a point to learn correct form. Mike has suggested some good resources for technique. It's a technical sport. Most people using rowing machines are using them incorrectly (for fitness purposes, let alone with respect to skills that could transfer to on-water), and many trainers don't teach rowing machines correctly. There are things that will make you faster on a rowing machine that will send you swimming from a rowing shell. Using a machine long-term with poor technique can make it harder to learn on-water rowing correctly, because of need to un-learn and reprogram muscle memory. (I've actually worked with such people.)

Frankly, without adequate (not necessarily perfect) technique, it's tough to get a decent workout from a rowing machine. It's different from other machines, in that user effort creates most of the workout intensity, rather than the machine resistance increasing the intensity. We've had threads here from folks struggling to get a decent workout from a rowing machine because of this.

I don't want to make rowing sound too difficult, because it isn't. Any average person can easily learn it. But learning about it, and spending time at the start to get the basics right, is a good time investment. Just hopping on a machine and banging away at it isn't generally the most effective strategy, if you want it to be a long-term valued, effective part of your fitness routine.

A couple of things to know about on-water rowing, since it sounds like you may be tempted by that: It, too, is quite technical, and I'm not as sanguine as Mike about the ease of transferring machine rowing skills directly into on water rowing: Bladework is important, technical, and not a thing at all on machines. Machines don't require much in the way of balance: If you can sit on a stool, you can sit on a rowing machine. A single rowing shell (of the type most experienced rowers use) is around 12" wide at the waterline, so balance is very much an issue. (People tend to find canoes and kayaks tippy feeling. Rowing shells - even the relatively broader ones - are tippier than most canoes or kayaks.) The best way to start on-water rowing is with lessons. Happily, most clubs offer a class or coached instruction (and usually won't let you row until you take instruction, or demonstrate skill, because liability). Most clubs also own boats, i.e., at those clubs, you needn't own your own boat, you can use the club's. Another way to learn on-water rowing is a camp that accepts beginners, such as Craftsbury here in the US (Vermont). (Camp, BTW, means dorms or cabins and a dining room, not primitive conditions. It's sort of an all-inclusive, room and board with coached rowing.) Skills from on-water rowing translate pretty directly to machine rowing, because machine rowing is mostly (not entirely) a simpler case of the same general movements.

I think rowing could be a useful complement to your running, and could blossom into an interesting activity in its own right. Despite remarks above, I think both the real Concept 2 machines, and the Water Rowers, are quality fitness machines. Concept 2 is a better choice for someone interested in competition (machine racing is a thing), or in on-water rowing, as it tends to be what most on-water rowers use for adjunct training, and has a robust online community that includes such people, plus there's an international schedule of in-person machine races. Water Rowers are quieter, and much more furniture-looking, so may be a better choice for some people.

IF the cheap used machine you bought is a similar style, then using it a bit (after checking out technique info) may be a way to try it out. The only concern I'd have is that such a machine might make there be body stresses or other downsides that you wouldn't encounter with a higher-quality machine. One caution: Even at gyms, some high-quality machines may be poorly maintained to the point of being a problem. Before you join a gym, try out their rowing machine(s). The chain or cable should run smoothly with a sort of well-oiled feeling, not grabby, clunky, or vibrational (think of how smoothly the chain on a decent bicycle feels vs. one that's poorly maintained, not properly oiled, has dirt in it, etc.). The (mild) resistance to a pull should be mostly even through a whole stroke, not jumpy or suddenly harder/easier at various points in the pull. The rail - the part the sliding seat rides on - should be smooth, clean and rust-free, and the seat-wheels smooth, so that the seat moves very freely without bumpiness, slippage or gritty feelings. Those are just a few things you should be able to see/feel, without having a bunch of technical knowledge about the machines.

If you have more questions, please ask. Best wishes, and have fun!

divcara

The rower is a great workout for legs, core, and arms. The power should come 60% from the legs, 20% from the core, 20% from the arms. Good form is really important. This is a good Josh Crosby video -

www.youtube.com/watch?v=li0jwXMo0k0

mkculs

@AnnPT77 and others, thank you over and over again. I am fortunate to have a rowing club nearby (I live in Madison, WI) and while I have just missed this year's "Learn to Row" classes, I will know where to sign up for next year, and I will be giving them a call to see if they can recommend a gym for indoor training this coming fall/winter. In the meanwhile, I'm enjoying our lakes with leisurely paddles (canoe, kayak) with friends and family. I've watched the video recommended (I first saw it on a thread for another beginner) and just looking at the boats in other videos tells me how important form and balance will be.

I'll be bookmarking this thread and re-reading many times as I move forward in this adventure. I hope others find it as useful and inspiring as I have, too.