What is a sport?

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Replies

  • Vain_Witch
    Vain_Witch Posts: 476 Member
    The bad part of your comment was not the ballroom dancing part (although, there is still little correlation between the two...cheerleading is more like gymnastics), the bad part was comparing it to beauty pageants...

    fwiw ballroom dancing is much more physically demanding than cheerleading.

    Source: my sister who is an instructor in both.

    I never said it's not physically demanding. I have no experience with it so I can't debate that. I'm just saying that the two aren't really related. I think boxing is physically demanding and I think that track is physically demanding...doesn't mean they have much else in common, though...

    they are related in that the performers are judged by a group of people. so they are both in the same type of category.

    So is American Idol and I don't think anyone is trying to get that called a sport. lol
  • BeachIron
    BeachIron Posts: 6,490 Member
    You're rehashing the games investigation done by Wittgenstein:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Family_resemblance

    At the end of the day sports have a kind of "family resemblance" in which members of the group sports have "overlapping similarities, where no one feature is common to all...." thus to take a reductionist tack and try to boil down the essential features that all sports must have, will always leave you with examples that don't seem to easily fit your schema. Boxing has been an example of this in this thread.

    Huge props for citing Wittgenstein in a debate on semantics. :flowerforyou:
  • scottaworley
    scottaworley Posts: 871 Member
    I still say golf is not a sport....A skill yes, however it is not a sport.

    You can hit the ball straight as an arrow and know exactly where to hit it, but without physical prowess you aren't going to be able to shoot under 90.
    That's what makes it a sport.
  • jimmmer
    jimmmer Posts: 3,515 Member
    You're rehashing the games investigation done by Wittgenstein:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Family_resemblance

    At the end of the day sports have a kind of "family resemblance" in which members of the group sports have "overlapping similarities, where no one feature is common to all...." thus to take a reductionist tack and try to boil down the essential features that all sports must have, will always leave you with examples that don't seem to easily fit your schema. Boxing has been an example of this in this thread.

    Huge props for citing Wittgenstein in a debate on semantics. :flowerforyou:

    Lol!

    thought my comment would be ignored since it calls into question the basis of the ongoing activity in this thread!
  • Laces_0ut
    Laces_0ut Posts: 3,750 Member
    The bad part of your comment was not the ballroom dancing part (although, there is still little correlation between the two...cheerleading is more like gymnastics), the bad part was comparing it to beauty pageants...

    fwiw ballroom dancing is much more physically demanding than cheerleading.

    Source: my sister who is an instructor in both.

    I never said it's not physically demanding. I have no experience with it so I can't debate that. I'm just saying that the two aren't really related. I think boxing is physically demanding and I think that track is physically demanding...doesn't mean they have much else in common, though...

    they are related in that the performers are judged by a group of people. so they are both in the same type of category.

    So is American Idol and I don't think anyone is trying to get that called a sport. lol

    so is a bake off.... the point is a physical competition like cheerleading, ballroom dance, gymnastics etcc...are all in the same category....whatever category that is.
  • BeachIron
    BeachIron Posts: 6,490 Member
    You're rehashing the games investigation done by Wittgenstein:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Family_resemblance

    At the end of the day sports have a kind of "family resemblance" in which members of the group sports have "overlapping similarities, where no one feature is common to all...." thus to take a reductionist tack and try to boil down the essential features that all sports must have, will always leave you with examples that don't seem to easily fit your schema. Boxing has been an example of this in this thread.

    Huge props for citing Wittgenstein in a debate on semantics. :flowerforyou:

    Lol!

    thought my comment would be ignored since it calls into question the basis of the ongoing activity in this thread!

    I'm pretty sure most people have never heard of Wittgenstein, and they certainly haven't read the Tractatus. I'm just happy to see him referenced here, because it was exactly what I was thinking.
  • jimmmer
    jimmmer Posts: 3,515 Member
    I'm pretty sure most people have never heard of Wittgenstein, and they certainly haven't read the Tractatus. I'm just happy to see him referenced here, because it was exactly what I was thinking.

    Yeah, that's why I linked to the wiki, so that peeps could go off and read some background on what they're arguing over and perhaps gain some context on why they will probably be arguing for ever on a definition!
  • 1PatientBear
    1PatientBear Posts: 2,089 Member
    I'm pretty sure most people have never heard of Wittgenstein, and they certainly haven't read the Tractatus. I'm just happy to see him referenced here, because it was exactly what I was thinking.

    Yeah, that's why I linked to the wiki, so that peeps could go off and read some background on what they're arguing over and perhaps gain some context on why they will probably be arguing for ever on a definition!

    Or we could just have a fun debate.
  • bigphatcat
    bigphatcat Posts: 7,843 Member
    I still say golf is not a sport....A skill yes, however it is not a sport.

    You can hit the ball straight as an arrow and know exactly where to hit it, but without physical prowess you aren't going to be able to shoot under 90.
    That's what makes it a sport.

    My Father-in- Law and I played a Championship Golf Course in Florida 2 years ago...Unbeleivably hard. My Father in law is 70 years old, overweight, constantly out of breath and on more heart medication than I care to admit. Through 18 he shot an 87. He is not an athlete....he is skilled
  • BeachIron
    BeachIron Posts: 6,490 Member
    I'm pretty sure most people have never heard of Wittgenstein, and they certainly haven't read the Tractatus. I'm just happy to see him referenced here, because it was exactly what I was thinking.

    Yeah, that's why I linked to the wiki, so that peeps could go off and read some background on what they're arguing over and perhaps gain some context on why they will probably be arguing for ever on a definition!

    And my apologies for referencing the Tractatus, as the Investigations is more relevant to the discussion. It's been 15 years for me. Oh well, back to the entertainment portion of our programming . . .
  • BrettWithPKU
    BrettWithPKU Posts: 575 Member
    I'd consider a sport (as opposed to a "game", or "show") to be defined by opposing individuals or teams participating physically, and interactively, with clear conditions that define winners and losers at the end - even if one condition is "have a judge award you more points".
    But the key is "interacting", meaning more than one individual or team participates in an event simultaneously, often directly influencing the success of the other participants.

    By my definition, Baseball, basketball, hockey, tennis, ping pong, dodge ball, boxing, wrestling (the real kind) and foot-racing (track) are sports. If you don't think track is, think about long-distance running. The lead runner sets the pace.

    Car racing (or any vehicle racing) is NOT a sport. Sure drivers tell you they sweat, their heart rate quickens, etc. But you could sweat and have your heart rate quicken in hold-em' poker, and poker: NOT a sport, and neither is car racing.

    Field events are competitions, but not sports. Diving, figure skating, etc. are competitions, but not sports, because the success of one diver (for example) does not directly influence the success of any other diver.
    Cheerleading is no more a sport than a "battle of the bands"; both are physical, true, but at the core both are more about providing entertainment than competing. The same goes for professional "fake" wrestling.
    Mental games and luck games like chess, checkers, cards games and casino games are defined as games on the Wikipedia page for "sports", but they're not. They're not physical.
  • Vain_Witch
    Vain_Witch Posts: 476 Member
    I'd consider a sport (as opposed to a "game", or "show") to be defined by opposing individuals or teams participating physically, and interactively, with clear conditions that define winners and losers at the end - even if one condition is "have a judge award you more points".
    But the key is "interacting", meaning more than one individual or team participates in an event simultaneously, often directly influencing the success of the other participants.

    By my definition, Baseball, basketball, hockey, tennis, ping pong, dodge ball, boxing, wrestling (the real kind) and foot-racing (track) are sports. If you don't think track is, think about long-distance running. The lead runner sets the pace.

    Car racing (or any vehicle racing) is NOT a sport. Sure drivers tell you they sweat, their heart rate quickens, etc. But you could sweat and have your heart rate quicken in hold-em' poker, and poker: NOT a sport, and neither is car racing.

    Field events are competitions, but not sports. Diving, figure skating, etc. are competitions, but not sports, because the success of one diver (for example) does not directly influence the success of any other diver.
    Cheerleading is no more a sport than a "battle of the bands"; both are physical, true, but at the core both are more about providing entertainment than competing. The same goes for professional "fake" wrestling.
    Mental games and luck games like chess, checkers, cards games and casino games are defined as games on the Wikipedia page for "sports", but they're not. They're not physical.

    Ok, I give. Not as in I agree, but as in I'm done arguing.
  • BrettWithPKU
    BrettWithPKU Posts: 575 Member
    I should add that "athletic" means "physically adept". Which can be connected to being adept in any physical activity: NOT just sports.
  • Laces_0ut
    Laces_0ut Posts: 3,750 Member
    I'd consider a sport (as opposed to a "game", or "show") to be defined by opposing individuals or teams participating physically, and interactively, with clear conditions that define winners and losers at the end - even if one condition is "have a judge award you more points".
    But the key is "interacting", meaning more than one individual or team participates in an event simultaneously, often directly influencing the success of the other participants.

    By my definition, Baseball, basketball, hockey, tennis, ping pong, dodge ball, boxing, wrestling (the real kind) and foot-racing (track) are sports. If you don't think track is, think about long-distance running. The lead runner sets the pace.

    Car racing (or any vehicle racing) is NOT a sport. Sure drivers tell you they sweat, their heart rate quickens, etc. But you could sweat and have your heart rate quicken in hold-em' poker, and poker: NOT a sport, and neither is car racing.

    Field events are competitions, but not sports. Diving, figure skating, etc. are competitions, but not sports, because the success of one diver (for example) does not directly influence the success of any other diver.
    Cheerleading is no more a sport than a "battle of the bands"; both are physical, true, but at the core both are more about providing entertainment than competing. The same goes for professional "fake" wrestling.
    Mental games and luck games like chess, checkers, cards games and casino games are defined as games on the Wikipedia page for "sports", but they're not. They're not physical.

    you have no idea how physically demanding car racing is do you?
  • soldier4242
    soldier4242 Posts: 1,368 Member
    Golf is not a sport. It's a skill....What's next throwing darts is a sport.

    Let the argueing begin

    Golf is totally a sport. Cheerleading is totally not a sport.

    As a cheerleading coach, I'd like to ask how you've decided it's not a sport. Competition cheerleaders compete against other squads, which makes it a sport by definition. Besides that, the level of gymnastics, coordination, agility, etc. that is needed is up there with any (and sometimes beyond) any other activity that you would consider a sport.

    It's not a sport because it is not objective. This has been covered pretty well. It is an athletic competition, but definitely not a sport. Is body building a sport?
    I didn't think so.
    Further, I could find better coordination and flexibility at a yoga class. But is yoga a sport?
    Cheer leading is objective.

    There are clear and defined goals and there are objective standard for what a squad can and must do during a routine.

    You can have points deducted for failing to go long enough or not finishing your routine in time.

    Their events are filmed and the watch replays to ensure that maneuvers are completely cleanly and to prevent cheating.

    They have a scoring system and they have brackets that dictate their movement through a competition.

    I do not see how you could justify your comparison between cheer leading and yoga.

    They have a scoring system that is judged by humans. In the end, humans are not perfect. Cheerleading is not akin to yoga, but practitioners of yoga have excellent strength, flexibility, and coordination. These things are thusly not a criteria for a sport, instead they are a criteria for an athletic endeavor.
    The NFL has a scoring system that is defined by imperfect humans. This may shock you but sometimes teams are given credit for touch downs that others disagree with and vice versa. So if you think that a scoring system that can be judged by a human rules out that event as as sport then you have to agree that football is not a sport or you have to withdraw that objection when it comes to cheer leading.
  • BeachIron
    BeachIron Posts: 6,490 Member
    I'm pretty sure most people have never heard of Wittgenstein, and they certainly haven't read the Tractatus. I'm just happy to see him referenced here, because it was exactly what I was thinking.

    Yeah, that's why I linked to the wiki, so that peeps could go off and read some background on what they're arguing over and perhaps gain some context on why they will probably be arguing for ever on a definition!

    Or we could just have a fun debate.

    Oh. I am so terribly sorry. I'll go back to my corner with the other kill joys that understand the foundations of our arguments regarding semantics . . . oh, and arguments regarding nutrition and cancer. I can't forget nutrition and cancer research. Anyway, have fun! :flowerforyou:

    And for the record, competitive cheerleading is most certainly a sport. Those ladies suffer under an injury rate that, last time I checked, is on par or higher than American football. Credit where credit is due and all.
  • soldier4242
    soldier4242 Posts: 1,368 Member
    Golf is not a sport. It's a skill....What's next throwing darts is a sport.

    Let the argueing begin

    Golf is totally a sport. Cheerleading is totally not a sport.

    As a cheerleading coach, I'd like to ask how you've decided it's not a sport. Competition cheerleaders compete against other squads, which makes it a sport by definition. Besides that, the level of gymnastics, coordination, agility, etc. that is needed is up there with any (and sometimes beyond) any other activity that you would consider a sport.

    It's not a sport because it is not objective. This has been covered pretty well. It is an athletic competition, but definitely not a sport. Is body building a sport?
    I didn't think so.
    Further, I could find better coordination and flexibility at a yoga class. But is yoga a sport?
    Cheer leading is objective.

    There are clear and defined goals and there are objective standard for what a squad can and must do during a routine.

    You can have points deducted for failing to go long enough or not finishing your routine in time.

    Their events are filmed and the watch replays to ensure that maneuvers are completely cleanly and to prevent cheating.

    They have a scoring system and they have brackets that dictate their movement through a competition.

    I do not see how you could justify your comparison between cheer leading and yoga.

    Will you marry me? :love: :flowerforyou: lol
    Yes, I will marry you.
  • Vain_Witch
    Vain_Witch Posts: 476 Member
    I'm pretty sure most people have never heard of Wittgenstein, and they certainly haven't read the Tractatus. I'm just happy to see him referenced here, because it was exactly what I was thinking.

    Yeah, that's why I linked to the wiki, so that peeps could go off and read some background on what they're arguing over and perhaps gain some context on why they will probably be arguing for ever on a definition!

    Or we could just have a fun debate.

    Oh. I am so terribly sorry. I'll go back to my corner with the other kill joys that understand the foundations of our arguments regarding semantics . . . oh, and arguments regarding nutrition and cancer. I can't forget nutrition and cancer research. Anyway, have fun! :flowerforyou:

    And for the record, competitive cheerleading is most certainly a sport. Those ladies suffer under an injury rate that, last time I checked, is on par or higher than American football. Credit where credit is due and all.

    Thank you BeachIron!!! Always a voice of reason! :flowerforyou:
  • Vain_Witch
    Vain_Witch Posts: 476 Member

    Will you marry me? :love: :flowerforyou: lol
    [/quote]
    Yes, I will marry you.
    [/quote]

    Sweet! :laugh:
  • Laces_0ut
    Laces_0ut Posts: 3,750 Member
    The NFL has a scoring system that is defined by imperfect humans. This may shock you but sometimes teams are given credit for touch downs that others disagree with and vice versa. So if you think that a scoring system that can be judged by a human rules out that event as as sport then you have to agree that football is not a sport or you have to withdraw that objection when it comes to cheer leading.

    they are completely different. teams dont hit the field in the NFL and play while a team of judges decides who plays better.

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