Hyphenated-Americans
Replies
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do people use a double hyphen? like if someone grew up in France and Germany and identified with both. then they move to america. would they go by French-German-American?0
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Black people over here in the UK are officially recognised as 'Black-British' and its subsets, but I (and many others) personally generally refer to myself by my country of origin (e.g. Ivory Coast for me) or just as British.
I'm surprised anyone refers to your appearance as anything apart from a complete "stunnahhh"! You're so pretty!0 -
I'm gonna bow out of this absurd interaction and commend those who could contribute meaningfully!
Black! Blanc! Beur! (Et al!)
go have fun in one of your lick, slap, bite threads since you cant handle it here.
You know... tact is missing here... but its not her lack of it.
im not the one telling people they lack the education and experience necessary to debate this topic.0 -
I don't really care. I'm "white" European and Native American.
I have neat stories about my great grandmother who was full Irish. And my married name is Norwegian and (most of the time) hard to pronounce. When someone completely messes it up I say "It's ok, it's Norwegian. Not that my husband is, just his name" But he technically is. So I don't know.
My great Aunt (married into my family) was born in the UK (she always said England never "the UK") She was always "English" then she would add "well I've lived her for 60 years, but I still drink my tea!" She didn't really, but what she was meaning was, She was English and still acted English, but from living here she also was American and also acted like an "American" (as in the farming and sweet ice tea, white gravy, etc)
So I think it's just a personal, situational kinda thing.
Although, I think it's a little over kill for a 5th or so generation American born person to hyphenate.0 -
Not fond of hyphenating as I feel it sets up divides that need to be overcome (without loss of identity of self, culture, or ethnicity).
I see this as 2 issues -- one is actual citizenship and one is how you culturally identify or would be identified (such as on those lovely surveys). So I'm an American who is caucasian with a mutt-mix of countries in the background. My daughter's boyfriend is American who is hispanic with a mostly Mexican background. I wish we wouldn't use the term race either, since it's scientifically incorrect and provides more of a schism than exists -- get it into the language and the thought processes of people that we're all one race with different cultural and ethnic considerations and perhaps we will be subconsciously moving forward into a time where those differences are just that, differences, and nothing else, no need to discriminate.0 -
I'm gonna bow out of this absurd interaction and commend those who could contribute meaningfully!
Black! Blanc! Beur! (Et al!)
go have fun in one of your lick, slap, bite threads since you cant handle it here.
You know... tact is missing here... but its not her lack of it.
im not the one telling people they lack the education and experience necessary to debate this topic.
Really?
Cause you didn't say this to me or anything...unless something has changed(and clearly you have no info on the matter) im going to stick with what most scientists say and continue to state we all came out of Africa.
Kinda sounded lack you were saying I lack the "education and experience" to debate this topic with you.
Seriously though, I'm not in the mood for your ridiculousness today. So I'm checking out of this one, myself.
Troll away!0 -
I always find it funny how so many peoole get so emotionally invested in how another person chooses to describe himself.
But anyway, I do think there is a reason why so many people choose to highlight their ethnicity alongside their nationality as it relates to Americans. This country is made up of immigrants and descendants of immigrants from all over the world. And those cultural influences in turn make up "American culture." But then ask yourself - what is American culture? That answer is going to greatly vary depending on who you ask, what part of the country you're in and to a large degree the ethnic background of the individual. No answer is right or wrong or better or worse. All are valid because they are based on the experiences of that person. And lets not pretend that because we are all Americans that we share the same experiences and have had the same opportunities so there are no differences in the way different groups have been treated. That is silly and untrue.
I personally don't care whether someone refers to me as African-American or simply black. I really don't have a preference. But I also don't get offended by people who do or people of other ethnicities who choose to highlight it. I simply don't hold the view a person who chooses to do so is disrespecting his "American" at the expense of acknowledging the other parts that make him who he is. If that's what it means to that person to be American what is the issue?0 -
Black people over here in the UK are officially recognised as 'Black-British' and its subsets, but I (and many others) personally generally refer to myself by my country of origin (e.g. Ivory Coast for me) or just as British.
I'm surprised anyone refers to your appearance as anything apart from a complete "stunnahhh"! You're so pretty!
Aw, thanks so much.
If I could blush I would be :P0 -
Not fond of hyphenating as I feel it sets up divides that need to be overcome (without loss of identity of self, culture, or ethnicity).
I see this as 2 issues -- one is actual citizenship and one is how you culturally identify or would be identified (such as on those lovely surveys). So I'm an American who is caucasian with a mutt-mix of countries in the background. My daughter's boyfriend is American who is hispanic with a mostly Mexican background. I wish we wouldn't use the term race either, since it's scientifically incorrect and provides more of a schism than exists -- get it into the language and the thought processes of people that we're all one race with different cultural and ethnic considerations and perhaps we will be subconsciously moving forward into a time where those differences are just that, differences, and nothing else, no need to discriminate.
Agreed, except certain "racial groupings" can be useful for medicine, etc. Like Ashkenazi Jews and people of African descent suffer more from certain illnesses, and I *think* there's a certain type of heart disease which requires different medications in Afro-Caribbeans.0 -
I'm gonna bow out of this absurd interaction and commend those who could contribute meaningfully!
Black! Blanc! Beur! (Et al!)
go have fun in one of your lick, slap, bite threads since you cant handle it here.
You know... tact is missing here... but its not her lack of it.
im not the one telling people they lack the education and experience necessary to debate this topic.
Really?
Cause you didn't say this to me or anything...unless something has changed(and clearly you have no info on the matter) im going to stick with what most scientists say and continue to state we all came out of Africa.
Kinda sounded lack you were saying I lack the "education and experience" to debate this topic with you.
Seriously though, I'm not in the mood for your ridiculousness today. So I'm checking out of this one, myself.
Troll away!
you were alluding to the fact that humans could have evolved elsewhere. i said that since you didnt provide any info i was going to stick with what current scientists say. thats different than saying we shouldnt allow this thread to continue.0 -
you were alluding to the fact that humans could have evolved elsewhere. i said that since you didnt provide any info i was going to stick with what current scientists say. thats different than saying we shouldnt allow this thread to continue.
First off, that is not what you said... what you said was rude and condescending.
Secondly, she suggested that this topic could easily be derailed into a race-baiting discussion... which she is correct as the topic has many times before.0 -
But to be snarky, on the demographic questionaires if it says "caucasian" I will check other and put "European-American" as I am a European Mutt (but mostly Anglo-Saxon-Jute) born and raised in American (5th generation).
Haha.. ME TOO! I'm not from Caucasia!
I don't understand that at all. Caucasian by definition means:Cau·ca·sian
adjective /kôˈkāZHən/
Of or relating to one of the traditional divisions of humankind, covering a broad group of peoples from Europe, western Asia, and parts of India and North Africa
White-skinned; of European origin
in terms of those demographic questions.
This definition of Caucasian is cultural to the Americas. It actually means a person from the Caucasus Region, a very specific place. In Russia, Caucasians are considered "Black."
It's not, it's a biology term. In population genetics, our databases are Caucasian, Afro-Caribbean, Somali (very unique genetic structure), South Asian, East Asian and some places will have very small databases for things like Native American or Maori etc. In science, it's not a "social term".
Caucasoid may be science.
Caucasian is relative to region. Ask anyone from Chechnya.
Nah. We use Caucasoid to avoid having to use Mongoloid, so science has just adopted Caucasian. Words can have two different meanings, for a start, and I've never heard anyone from Russia or the Ukraine (where I worked) use the term Caucasian anyway. Plus, the "people of the Caucasus" involve about 40 different ethnic (or cultural) groups, so it's not really that relevant to any discussion of hyphenation, even if you were using it to mean that specific region. You would be Lezgic-American, for example...
I do agree that the people of Chechnya have suffered a lot at the hands of these old-style "groupings", but it doesn't mean that it's logically correct (people in power love to segregate people based on useless regions) and it doesn't mean that that's how they see themselves.
I agree on multiple meanings. That was my point- the meaning of the word varies by context or region.
I don't believe the segregation is based on "useless" regions.... It's identity based on culture, language, and tribe. What we have in Kavkaz is regions that are traditional, cultural, linguistic, and ethnic (and yes religious).... These people have historically wanted independence from imperial forces. But as international law evolved to view identity based upon nationality (based on an internationally recognized nation-state), the recognition of the validity of a traditional nation based on socio-cultural-religious identity is less recognized.
This evolution in international law backfired in Yugoslavia.
I just think that the hyphenation discussion is too complex because we don't even know if we are talking about ethnicity, nationality, culture, or what. People can identify how they choose and I respect people's self-identification (even their preferred pronoun). I think it's just important to delineate the framework of the conversation (the universe of discourse) and recognize that there is an entire universe of discourse that is not included.0 -
you were alluding to the fact that humans could have evolved elsewhere. i said that since you didnt provide any info i was going to stick with what current scientists say. thats different than saying we shouldnt allow this thread to continue.
First off, that is not what you said... what you said was rude and condescending.
Secondly, she suggested that this topic could easily be derailed into a race-baiting discussion... which she is correct as the topic has many times before.
rude? i and others were pointing out there you were wrong to assume humans evolved anywhere other than Africa.
who here is race baiting?0 -
I'm gonna bow out of this absurd interaction and commend those who could contribute meaningfully!
Black! Blanc! Beur! (Et al!)
go have fun in one of your lick, slap, bite threads since you cant handle it here.
You know... tact is missing here... but its not her lack of it.
im not the one telling people they lack the education and experience necessary to debate this topic.
Really?
Cause you didn't say this to me or anything...unless something has changed(and clearly you have no info on the matter) im going to stick with what most scientists say and continue to state we all came out of Africa.
Kinda sounded lack you were saying I lack the "education and experience" to debate this topic with you.
Seriously though, I'm not in the mood for your ridiculousness today. So I'm checking out of this one, myself.
Troll away!
you were alluding to the fact that humans could have evolved elsewhere. i said that since you didnt provide any info i was going to stick with what current scientists say. thats different than saying we shouldnt allow this thread to continue.
For the record, I didn't report this thread, nor do I think it should be shut down. I was just trying to express that a place where "bang date marry" threads are the level of communication, I haven't much hope for this website to be an enlightening safe place for this discussion.0 -
you were alluding to the fact that humans could have evolved elsewhere. i said that since you didnt provide any info i was going to stick with what current scientists say. thats different than saying we shouldnt allow this thread to continue.
First off, that is not what you said... what you said was rude and condescending.
Secondly, she suggested that this topic could easily be derailed into a race-baiting discussion... which she is correct as the topic has many times before.
rude? i and others were pointing out there you were wrong to assume humans evolved anywhere other than Africa.
who here is race baiting?
The statement that I made was that labeling something as the oldest fossil records does not prove that undiscovered fossils are not in existence. Therefore, your point that we are all 'African' is ridiculous!0 -
My favorite is when someone is 1/16th Cherokee or something similar just so they can claim to be part of some minority group in order to be just that one shade hipper. Sorry man. You're white.0
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you were alluding to the fact that humans could have evolved elsewhere. i said that since you didnt provide any info i was going to stick with what current scientists say. thats different than saying we shouldnt allow this thread to continue.
First off, that is not what you said... what you said was rude and condescending.
Secondly, she suggested that this topic could easily be derailed into a race-baiting discussion... which she is correct as the topic has many times before.
rude? i and others were pointing out there you were wrong to assume humans evolved anywhere other than Africa.
who here is race baiting?
It was the veiled implication that we are all equally "African" that was the problem.0 -
I'm awesome-American. That's all the hyphenating I need.
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My favorite is when someone is 1/16th Cherokee or something similar just so they can claim to be part of some minority group in order to be just that one shade hipper. Sorry man. You're white.
Legally, you cannot claim a tribal connection if you are less than 1/8th American indian.0 -
I think it would make sense to hyphenate if you were born in another country and moved to a new country and became a citizen. I was born in America, so were my parents and my grandparents; to me that means we are all Americans. My great grandparents, however, came from other countries, so I feel like they would have had more reason to hyphenate German-American, Polish-American, etc. (if they so desired). I think it's cool to learn about my roots and family history, and I don't see anything wrong with having pride for your origins, but I don't feel the need to divide myself from the whole by maintaining a hyphenated label.0
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My favorite is when someone is 1/16th Cherokee or something similar just so they can claim to be part of some minority group in order to be just that one shade hipper. Sorry man. You're white.
That's what I always think too....0 -
For the record, I didn't report this thread, nor do I think it should be shut down. I was just trying to express that a place where "bang date marry" threads are the level of communication, I haven't much hope for this website to be an enlightening safe place for this discussion.
im glad you didnt ...we need to change the hearts and minds of MFP. lets start talking about race, religion, politics etc..
i really like Reddit for these types of discussions. if you cut through some of the more silly comments you can find great discussions. and due to their rating system the silly stuff gets filtered to the bottom.0 -
you were alluding to the fact that humans could have evolved elsewhere. i said that since you didnt provide any info i was going to stick with what current scientists say. thats different than saying we shouldnt allow this thread to continue.
First off, that is not what you said... what you said was rude and condescending.
Secondly, she suggested that this topic could easily be derailed into a race-baiting discussion... which she is correct as the topic has many times before.
rude? i and others were pointing out there you were wrong to assume humans evolved anywhere other than Africa.
who here is race baiting?
It was the veiled implication that we are all equally "African" that was the problem.
And honestly, I'm surprised no one took offense to that.0 -
you were alluding to the fact that humans could have evolved elsewhere. i said that since you didnt provide any info i was going to stick with what current scientists say. thats different than saying we shouldnt allow this thread to continue.
First off, that is not what you said... what you said was rude and condescending.
Secondly, she suggested that this topic could easily be derailed into a race-baiting discussion... which she is correct as the topic has many times before.
rude? i and others were pointing out there you were wrong to assume humans evolved anywhere other than Africa.
who here is race baiting?
It was the veiled implication that we are all equally "African" that was the problem.
i know we are not equally "African" my main point was that since we all evolved out of Africa we are all humans. and that is what i wish we identified with first and that skin color was more of a window dressing.0 -
My favorite is when someone is 1/16th Cherokee or something similar just so they can claim to be part of some minority group in order to be just that one shade hipper. Sorry man. You're white.
Cherokee tribe is a great example of the historical context of racial identity in the US. The tribe itself does not have a blood quantum requirement, which is their right recognized by federal law. Under federal law, if this person is recognized as a member of the tribe, this person is legally an "Indian." Yes. It's a legal determination of what we often think of as am ethnic identity. That's why it isn't a violation of civil rights for a federal agency to have an Indian preference policy- it's a legal status, not racial. The history of blood quantum had to do with a policy of "breeding out" the "indian problem".... this is why we collectively cringe at someone saying they are native when they are 1/16th native, but we don't cringe if they say they are Irish with the same blood quantum- even if the person speaking is simply talking about their ethnic identity, not their cultural or legal identity.
Ther Cherokee Tribe also had the recent Black Freedmen issue where the tribe disenrolled all members who traced their ancestry to the black freedmen rolls- because the "one drop your out rule" impacted how the rolls were done. Our cultural history impacts how we view race. Anyone in the tribe who was mixed white and Cherokee were put on one roll, while all the blacks and mixed black and Cherokee were on the black freedman roll.
For the record, I think the tribe re-enrolled the members.0 -
you were alluding to the fact that humans could have evolved elsewhere. i said that since you didnt provide any info i was going to stick with what current scientists say. thats different than saying we shouldnt allow this thread to continue.
First off, that is not what you said... what you said was rude and condescending.
Secondly, she suggested that this topic could easily be derailed into a race-baiting discussion... which she is correct as the topic has many times before.
rude? i and others were pointing out there you were wrong to assume humans evolved anywhere other than Africa.
who here is race baiting?
It was the veiled implication that we are all equally "African" that was the problem.
And honestly, I'm surprised no one took offense to that.
because unlike you they know no offense was meant.0 -
you were alluding to the fact that humans could have evolved elsewhere. i said that since you didnt provide any info i was going to stick with what current scientists say. thats different than saying we shouldnt allow this thread to continue.
First off, that is not what you said... what you said was rude and condescending.
Secondly, she suggested that this topic could easily be derailed into a race-baiting discussion... which she is correct as the topic has many times before.
rude? i and others were pointing out there you were wrong to assume humans evolved anywhere other than Africa.
who here is race baiting?
It was the veiled implication that we are all equally "African" that was the problem.
i know we are not equally "African" my main point was that since we all evolved out of Africa we are all humans. and that is what i wish we identified with first and that skin color was more of a window dressing.
I think we do all identify as human first.0 -
you were alluding to the fact that humans could have evolved elsewhere. i said that since you didnt provide any info i was going to stick with what current scientists say. thats different than saying we shouldnt allow this thread to continue.
First off, that is not what you said... what you said was rude and condescending.
Secondly, she suggested that this topic could easily be derailed into a race-baiting discussion... which she is correct as the topic has many times before.
rude? i and others were pointing out there you were wrong to assume humans evolved anywhere other than Africa.
who here is race baiting?
It was the veiled implication that we are all equally "African" that was the problem.
And honestly, I'm surprised no one took offense to that.
because unlike you they know no offense was meant.
I'll accept that as an *kitten*-backwards apology! :indifferent:0 -
I'm a Canadian - other than that there is no hyphention.
I find the terms odd and suggestive e.g. African-American
1) all people in the USA of a dark skin colour came from Africa, and the temporal aspect of the African origin could be immediate or centuries ago - this then suggests over time never becoming classed as a true American
2) displays ignorance towards others who have darker skin, such as native Australians etc
3) hints at being discrimination by stereotyping all those in America of darker skin as being that stated
4) suggests that all those other than pure native heriitage need to hyphenate their lineage in order to avoid a double standard of stereotypoing and discrimination of that stated
5) suggests a "softer" way of justifying sterotyping and racism
6) America is still hung up on "non-whites"0 -
I think we do all identify as human first.
if that was true i dont think groups like the KKK would exist.0
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