Ketogenic diet

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  • fb47
    fb47 Posts: 1,058 Member
    edited July 2018
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    fb47 wrote: »
    jtaylor_71 wrote: »
    Hi all, wanting peoples thoughts (good and bad) on a ketogenic diet.

    I lost 20kgs over the last year, however recently gained most of it back following a traumatic personal experience. I’m wanting to jump back in and start losing the weight while keeping myself busy :)

    Please no negative, I’m not here for that, I’m here to gain knowledge.

    How can you say no negative when you ask people's thoughts (good and bad)???

    Anyways, my opinion is this, unless you have health issues that requires you to get rid of carbs or you simply just feel satiated and enjoy keto, doing keto isn't anything special. What I mean by that, for fat loss, keto will not directly cause you to lose weight, what does make you directly lose weight is being at a caloric deficit and it has been scientifically proven that for fat loss, every diet share similar results. People do experience fast weight loss in the initial stages of keto, but that's because of water weight and glycogen that is getting depleted .

    For physical activities, although it is not yet conclusive, early stages of the studies show that keto is the least optimal out of all diets. This one does not surprise me since your water and glycogen are depleted and you're relying on fat as source of energy instead of carbs, so you're not going to get the best out of your workout which is why athletes in general follow a high carb diet.

    You claim you lost 20kgs last year, but that was not keto that did that, it was the caloric deficit. Keto was just the tool you used in order to acheive that goal just like others will use Intermittent fasting or Paleo, well you get my point.

    I am able to lose weight with carbs, but it's funny you won't see people shout "Eating a high carb diet made me lose weight". In the end, it's all about personal preference, if you enjoy keto and it helps you stick with your goal(s), then by all means keep doing it.

    For most people, being in a caloric deficit will make you lose weight regardless of your macros. The only exception which can make losing weight difficult is if you have some health issues (like thyroid for example), but for the regular Joe and Jane, it's all about eating less calories than you burn which will make you lose weight.



    'For physical activities, although it is not yet conclusive, early stages of the studies show that keto is the least optimal out of all diets. This one does not surprise me since your water and glycogen are depleted and you're relying on fat as source of energy instead of carbs, so you're not going to get the best out of your workout which is why athletes in general follow a high carb diet.'

    I'm gonna have to chime in on this one. while I don't consider myself an "athlete" hell most of us don't on here I have been doing following the ketogenic lifestyle for about a year and a half. Last year I was training for a half marathon ( no didn't do it because my knee started acting up :/ ) but I was running 10 miles once a week and 5-8 miles 3 time a week and lifting for an hour and a half to 2 hours 3 times a week. Not once did I ever experience any kind of issues with energy levels or muscle weakness (aside from the expected DOMS!) quite the opposite in fact. your body isn't actually using fats for energy but turning them into ketones, which your body does use for energy. some might say more efficiently than glucose. but I have no studies to back any of this up.

    What I do have is my own opinion. I feel better than I ever have in my life. some of this is I'm sure due to the fact that I exercise more and I don't feel starving all the time like I used to on a more 'traditional' meal plan. I eat bacon and eggs and butter and salads and I don't feel bogged down like I used to .

    My advice to the OP is to research for yourself.. read what others have experienced. and then if you still want to try do it. but research research research. I did for months before taking the dive and I don't ever plan on going back. I have a physical every year and there has been no negative changes in my heath. no blood pressure issues no cholesterol issues and I eat tons of fat and add loads of salt to everything. I'm sure it's not for everyone. But I love it.

    I said the word "optimal", if you're on ketosis, you're not putting yourself into the most optimal situation for your body or else athletes in general would hop on the keto bandwagon for optimal performance. And I am not talking about elite athletes, I am also talking about at the amateur level. I never mentioned anything about not having energy when working out or running.
  • rsclause
    rsclause Posts: 3,103 Member
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    sardelsa wrote: »
    rsclause wrote: »
    I am noticing a kind of opposing view between the calories in/ calories out and LCHF groups. Yes calories matter but your % of carbs, Fat and protein matter too. I think when you start Keto it is more important to hit your % of each than to worry about calories. When your body becomes fat adapted you should start to burn fat but at the same time you will likely feel less hungry. This is when, in a perfect world, you should self regulate calories. You are not going to wreck your scale weight in two weeks of keto and I will even bet weight (water) goes down several pounds too. If the scale doesn't move you can always dial back total calories later. This isn't magic it is about burning fat AND managing calories. Week one for me stats, down 8 pounds but was 10, beer belly is shrinking dramatically to the point others notice. Not paying any attention to food portion or calories now but just eating til full.

    This is the thing... I think if keto helps you manage your hunger that is great, but I would imagine you would probably want to stay on it for the rest of your life, otherwise when you start to add carbs back in (or whatever sets your hunger off) it could become difficult if you aren't used to managing hunger. I think if someone has major issues with hunger it can help, but again it takes it away vs. helping them manage it, which again is fine if you stay on keto forever.

    I think though, in some cases (not all...) it can be important to know how to manage and deal with hunger... it is uncomfortable. It does suck sometimes. Learning how to deal with it is hard, but it is a skill you learn that gets better with time. Exercise is hard, but over time you become more comfortable being uncomfortable if that makes sense. Again, this might not work for everyone, especially if your hunger signals are way out of whack.

    Although I have some fat to lose I am doing this as a lifestyle change because I see some possible health and weight benefits.
  • rsclause
    rsclause Posts: 3,103 Member
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    rsclause wrote: »
    I am noticing a kind of opposing view between the calories in/ calories out and LCHF groups. Yes calories matter but your % of carbs, Fat and protein matter too. I think when you start Keto it is more important to hit your % of each than to worry about calories. When your body becomes fat adapted you should start to burn fat but at the same time you will likely feel less hungry. This is when, in a perfect world, you should self regulate calories. You are not going to wreck your scale weight in two weeks of keto and I will even bet weight (water) goes down several pounds too. If the scale doesn't move you can always dial back total calories later. This isn't magic it is about burning fat AND managing calories. Week one for me stats, down 8 pounds but was 10, beer belly is shrinking dramatically to the point others notice. Not paying any attention to food portion or calories now but just eating til full.

    Unfortunately we don't live in a perfect world, keto doesn't regulate everyone's hunger and fatty foods are high calorie and delicious.

    Agreed, in a small portion of people bad cholesterol can increase and it may not be for everybody. No magic to it but I am giving it a try and so far seeing positive results. This is the beginning of a long road and I won't truly know how this works for me for several months.
  • mmapags
    mmapags Posts: 8,934 Member
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    rsclause wrote: »
    I am noticing a kind of opposing view between the calories in/ calories out and LCHF groups. Yes calories matter but your % of carbs, Fat and protein matter too. I think when you start Keto it is more important to hit your % of each than to worry about calories. When your body becomes fat adapted you should start to burn fat but at the same time you will likely feel less hungry. This is when, in a perfect world, you should self regulate calories. You are not going to wreck your scale weight in two weeks of keto and I will even bet weight (water) goes down several pounds too. If the scale doesn't move you can always dial back total calories later. This isn't magic it is about burning fat AND managing calories. Week one for me stats, down 8 pounds but was 10, beer belly is shrinking dramatically to the point others notice. Not paying any attention to food portion or calories now but just eating til full.

    Actually, I think the opposite approach is the more prudent one. If one wants to adopt a keto diet, log and track at first while you determine if self regulation is a benefit you realize from keto. Some do. Some don't.

    Some can learn to self regulate with a gradual transition away from logging as their food intake gets more intuitive and as they may begin to realize the benefits of reduced hunger. Just as an aside, some of the benefits of reduced hunger can come from just lower carbs. One doesn't have to go full keto to get at least some benefit. My personal way of eating is 100-150 grams per day of carbs and I have no struggles with hunger at all.

    Just a different perspective.
  • rsclause
    rsclause Posts: 3,103 Member
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    I like to run in the morning and that is something I haven't figured out regarding carb totals. Right now I am trying to hit 30 to 35g.
  • mmapags
    mmapags Posts: 8,934 Member
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    rsclause wrote: »
    I like to run in the morning and that is something I haven't figured out regarding carb totals. Right now I am trying to hit 30 to 35g.

    I practice IF and train fasted because I like to train in the morning. I've never had any issues but I suspect that is very individual as some struggle with training without some carbs ingested.
  • rsclause
    rsclause Posts: 3,103 Member
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    mmapags wrote: »
    rsclause wrote: »
    I like to run in the morning and that is something I haven't figured out regarding carb totals. Right now I am trying to hit 30 to 35g.

    I practice IF and train fasted because I like to train in the morning. I've never had any issues but I suspect that is very individual as some struggle with training without some carbs ingested.

    I have always run at 4:30 AM fasted because it is easy to roll out of bed and hit the road. I eat when I get home and was eating oatmeal, English muffin or toast with eggs. By 9:00 I was shaking and would eat a snack bar or nuts. Now I eat a few almonds out of habit and don't get that shaky feeling that I used to call my calorie crash. I feel much better after my run and during the whole morning. I have read that athletes "may" need to up their carbs a bit so that is why I was shooting for 30g. I may drop it down to 20g if I don't feel like its a problem.
  • mmapags
    mmapags Posts: 8,934 Member
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    rsclause wrote: »
    mmapags wrote: »
    rsclause wrote: »
    I like to run in the morning and that is something I haven't figured out regarding carb totals. Right now I am trying to hit 30 to 35g.

    I practice IF and train fasted because I like to train in the morning. I've never had any issues but I suspect that is very individual as some struggle with training without some carbs ingested.

    I have always run at 4:30 AM fasted because it is easy to roll out of bed and hit the road. I eat when I get home and was eating oatmeal, English muffin or toast with eggs. By 9:00 I was shaking and would eat a snack bar or nuts. Now I eat a few almonds out of habit and don't get that shaky feeling that I used to call my calorie crash. I feel much better after my run and during the whole morning. I have read that athletes "may" need to up their carbs a bit so that is why I was shooting for 30g. I may drop it down to 20g if I don't feel like its a problem.

    For training purposes, I'd keep it at the highest number I could while staying in ketosis. There is no additional benefit to dropping lower as when you are training you will be burning it off. It's totally up to you but personally, I'm going to get the most out of my training sessions and possibly back it off on non training days.

    I do that now even though LC and not keto. The night before a training session I'll tend to be higher carb than average for me. It makes my training sessions so much more enjoyable to have the energy to kick it instead of dragging through.
  • schankame4044
    schankame4044 Posts: 1 Member
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    There is lots of good answers. There is one thing I want to make sure is said, might have missed it.

    Keto diet is not for everyone!! We are doing it in our house. However, for example, my mom had her gallbladder removed, so she can't do it. There are other reasons why it might not work for you. Just make sure you listen to your body. Best advice I was give!