A marathon for little ol me?
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This is probably a dumb question but now that my race is in January instead but I'm already starting training now what do I do when my schedule stops lol? Do I keep repeating the last two weeks or something until the race?0
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i am kind of a contrarian here. if you are old 40+ and had a kid or two, you have accomplished many things harder than running a marathon. i am ruggedly built, lucky that way. if you are pretty fit, pretty confident, and not slight or injury prone, you can definitely do it. As they say, don't have a goal time gor your first race, just finish it....and you got it. If it isn't outrageous weather, and it is a well supported race there will be more than enough fuel at the stops yoy won't have to carry your own food/water.
My poor pooch is 8, and he just doesn't want to do it either. sniffing is more fun than running.2 -
This is probably a dumb question but now that my race is in January instead but I'm already starting training now what do I do when my schedule stops lol? Do I keep repeating the last two weeks or something until the race?
With the race in January, you're not too far off the timing for an 18 week program. Technically I guess you would want to start that in about a month. For the next few weeks, I would just focus on building yourself up to 25-30 miles per week such that you're ready to jump right into an 18 week training plan when the time is right.3 -
@FL_Hiker i have not fueled them but i might as i go longer with speed demon. the old girl and i were running casually when we went long. i might bring some dog cookies for speed demon. something that is easy to digest
the last few weeks of the plan should be a taper (running less) so i plan on doing the few weeks before it on repeat. because i have no idea when i will be running my full1 -
Good for you! I'm training for a 15 and once that is done MAY start increasing to half marathon.
Question: is increasing the other runs in the week crucial? I am not sure i'll be able to swing 6+km runs the other days of the weekend (I can make time for the long run no problem, and even hill training). More a time constraint issue. Especially if I am not training for a specific race, can my runs stay at 5km or hill training and one long run weekly?1 -
Good for you! I'm training for a 15 and once that is done MAY start increasing to half marathon.
Question: is increasing the other runs in the week crucial? I am not sure i'll be able to swing 6+km runs the other days of the weekend (I can make time for the long run no problem, and even hill training). More a time constraint issue. Especially if I am not training for a specific race, can my runs stay at 5km or hill training and one long run weekly?
Not really. Everything does have to move in sync else you'll be placing way too much weight on your long run for conditioning and development. Also, the limited mileage outside of the long run will actually limit the feasible length of that run which, in turn, will limit your feasible maximum weekly volume.
Conventional wisdom holds that your long run should generally be no more than ~30% of your weekly volume.1 -
Gotcha I might take a look at the Hal Higdons plan instead then since thats 18 weeks.
Another potentially dumb question....... What happens if you have to take a week off? Say you are sick? Or I know in December we are going on vacation and I wasn't planning on working out since its going to be in a dangerous place to run (little cabin on the top of a mountain likely there will be a lot of snow and ice).
And another... in the Hal Higdons Novice 1 plan it says to cross train on Sundays, my question is how intense does that cross training have to be? Does a 30 minute stroll around the block count? Or should I be hitting the weights or swimming more intense?
Thank you all again for being so helpful!!!!! You guys rock!0 -
@panini911 my plan has a long run of 10, then the next week is 18, then 12, then 20, etc.
the weekly runs are between 3-8.
@FL_Hiker i found this blog/article to be helpful2 -
If you have only an additional week or two before starting the plan, you can go ahead and start the plan, then either repeat a week in the middle or toward the end (but not during taper) or keep it as a flex week in case of illness or travel. If you have a month or more before marathon training would start, then use that time to build your base - i.e. go from 20 to 25 mpw or from 30 to 35.
Panini911 - the totality of your miles is what has the biggest effect on your ability to run well and race well, not just the length of your long runs. The medium long runs are very important and will make your long runs feel easier, though still not easy. If your long run is 10 miles and your total miles for the week is 15, you're going to struggle. If your long run is 10 miles but your total mileage is 30, it's not that hard. During marathon training, I have one long run (2-3.5 hours) and two runs that last 90 minutes or so, plus two shorter ones for recovery or speedwork. Those 8-10 mile MLRs make the 20 milers possible. Finding/making time to do that much training is one reason some people limit the number of marathons they do and a lot of people decide that one is enough.2 -
Good for you! I'm training for a 15 and once that is done MAY start increasing to half marathon.
Question: is increasing the other runs in the week crucial? I am not sure i'll be able to swing 6+km runs the other days of the weekend (I can make time for the long run no problem, and even hill training). More a time constraint issue. Especially if I am not training for a specific race, can my runs stay at 5km or hill training and one long run weekly?
In terms of general principles for designing a training plan I veer towards the long run being 20-25% of total weekly volume. You get different physiological effects from the different types of run and if you're having towards the LSR you're losing musculoskeletal development gains.
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The training plan is really about the whole. Not so much about an individual workout or week. That said, if you'll be taking off within a month or so before the race, chances are it'll be one of the weeks with a 20 miler in it. That run is critical and you should make sure you get that week's schedule into your training plan.
To make up the loss of a week, I would do a hybrid of the last two weeks before race week (that is, split the difference between the scheduled mileage for weeks 16 and 17) since those weeks tend to be a gradual taper. Do race week as prescribed in the program.
If you'll be away for week 17, then just pick up with the race week schedule as prescribed. No need to do anything different or to make up the workout from that week.
Cross training can be whatever you want it to be as long as it doesn't involve running. Any light exercise is fine.2 -
Good for you! I'm training for a 15 and once that is done MAY start increasing to half marathon.
Question: is increasing the other runs in the week crucial? I am not sure i'll be able to swing 6+km runs the other days of the weekend (I can make time for the long run no problem, and even hill training). More a time constraint issue. Especially if I am not training for a specific race, can my runs stay at 5km or hill training and one long run weekly?
i sometimes end up with shorter runs through the week and a long run at the weekend. its not ideal, but it is manageable for half distance in my opinion.
could i get faster if i did longer week day runs to make my long run less of my overall running volume? probably. do longer runs during the week fit into my plans most weeks? no, which is why i don't do it.
i love running, i wont make it a chore for myself though.1 -
spiriteagle99 wrote: »
Panini911 - the totality of your miles is what has the biggest effect on your ability to run well and race well, not just the length of your long runs. The medium long runs are very important and will make your long runs feel easier, though still not easy. If your long run is 10 miles and your total miles for the week is 15, you're going to struggle. If your long run is 10 miles but your total mileage is 30, it's not that hard. During marathon training, I have one long run (2-3.5 hours) and two runs that last 90 minutes or so, plus two shorter ones for recovery or speedwork. Those 8-10 mile MLRs make the 20 milers possible. Finding/making time to do that much training is one reason some people limit the number of marathons they do and a lot of people decide that one is enough.
and this is exactly why i always think i want to do a marathon, until i consider the reality of the training! :laugh:1 -
Great info! I will see what I can do to keep the long run within 30% of weekly total. Since i'm not actually training for a race I can just cap my long run if I don't have time to add to my runs.
ETA: shoot! this is ALREADY an issue for my plan over the next few weeks til my 15k!!
looks like I need to change my plan.
Sorry for hijacking the treat FL_hiker! Lots of great info (I am not training for a martahon, maybe a half at most, but teh info is stellar for any increase in distance).1 -
I'm still having trouble picking exactly which race to run lol, I want to make sure i'm counting the weeks right and will end up on the correct days.. So since i started Week 1 this week, would a half marathon on Septemer 23 and the marathon on December 15 be ideal? I wouldn't have to take a week off if I did the race before janurary and I think if I counted right that would be 18 weeks. Here is the plan.. https://www.halhigdon.com/training-programs/marathon-training/novice-1-marathon/0
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i think i would just keep repeating the weeks after the half and the few weeks before the race follow the last few weeks of the plan
imo, but i've never done this before but it was what i was advised to do1 -
TavistockToad wrote: »spiriteagle99 wrote: »
Panini911 - the totality of your miles is what has the biggest effect on your ability to run well and race well, not just the length of your long runs. The medium long runs are very important and will make your long runs feel easier, though still not easy. If your long run is 10 miles and your total miles for the week is 15, you're going to struggle. If your long run is 10 miles but your total mileage is 30, it's not that hard. During marathon training, I have one long run (2-3.5 hours) and two runs that last 90 minutes or so, plus two shorter ones for recovery or speedwork. Those 8-10 mile MLRs make the 20 milers possible. Finding/making time to do that much training is one reason some people limit the number of marathons they do and a lot of people decide that one is enough.
and this is exactly why i always think i want to do a marathon, until i consider the reality of the training! :laugh:
Amen! I knew it but I didn’t KNOW it until I got up to my eyeballs and it got very real. I’m really feeling like I’m going to be a one and done kind of a girl. My runs are a bit longer than @spiriteagle99. I’m on team “marathons are like mullets: the party is in the back”.
I will second (third?) that the longer mid-week runs makes an enormous difference in making the long runs more manageable. Anything 16+ hits me like a brick if I don’t have the longer mid-week runs to support that. Although the double-digit mid week runs have turned runger into an every 3 day event, and it takes a lot of planning to fit that kind of time into a workday on a regular basis, I don’t think I could be doing the 16-20 mile long runs without those longer mid-week runs.
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I'm still having trouble picking exactly which race to run lol, I want to make sure i'm counting the weeks right and will end up on the correct days.. So since i started Week 1 this week, would a half marathon on Septemer 23 and the marathon on December 15 be ideal? I wouldn't have to take a week off if I did the race before janurary and I think if I counted right that would be 18 weeks. Here is the plan.. https://www.halhigdon.com/training-programs/marathon-training/novice-1-marathon/
The longer you wait to do your marathon, the more time you have to build your base, and the stronger you will feel on race day. If you do a race in January or February, you could train for a half in September or October and then do a higher mileage plan than the Novice 1 schedule.
Really it depends on which race you want to do. Each marathon is different, with a different atmosphere and organizational style, different scenery and participants. You need to think about whether you want to do a big race or a small one, one close to home or one you would travel to and enjoy a few days holiday before or after, rural or urban, etc.
I wanted one close to home for my first, so I could sleep in my own bed, eat familiar food, and not have the pressure of dealing with a strange place when I was already stressed about the race. So I ran a race in a town about an hour from home. I was very glad I did it that way since I was able to train on the course and race day logistics were a breeze.
It really is up to you which race would be 'ideal' for you.2 -
Duck_Puddle wrote: »TavistockToad wrote: »spiriteagle99 wrote: »
Panini911 - the totality of your miles is what has the biggest effect on your ability to run well and race well, not just the length of your long runs. The medium long runs are very important and will make your long runs feel easier, though still not easy. If your long run is 10 miles and your total miles for the week is 15, you're going to struggle. If your long run is 10 miles but your total mileage is 30, it's not that hard. During marathon training, I have one long run (2-3.5 hours) and two runs that last 90 minutes or so, plus two shorter ones for recovery or speedwork. Those 8-10 mile MLRs make the 20 milers possible. Finding/making time to do that much training is one reason some people limit the number of marathons they do and a lot of people decide that one is enough.
and this is exactly why i always think i want to do a marathon, until i consider the reality of the training! :laugh:
Amen! I knew it but I didn’t KNOW it until I got up to my eyeballs and it got very real. I’m really feeling like I’m going to be a one and done kind of a girl. My runs are a bit longer than @spiriteagle99. I’m on team “marathons are like mullets: the party is in the back”.
I will second (third?) that the longer mid-week runs makes an enormous difference in making the long runs more manageable. Anything 16+ hits me like a brick if I don’t have the longer mid-week runs to support that. Although the double-digit mid week runs have turned runger into an every 3 day event, and it takes a lot of planning to fit that kind of time into a workday on a regular basis, I don’t think I could be doing the 16-20 mile long runs without those longer mid-week runs.
That's my other issue... unless I am super careful I gain on a half.... I can't imagine how much I would put on training for a full. :laugh:1 -
TavistockToad wrote: »Duck_Puddle wrote: »TavistockToad wrote: »spiriteagle99 wrote: »
Panini911 - the totality of your miles is what has the biggest effect on your ability to run well and race well, not just the length of your long runs. The medium long runs are very important and will make your long runs feel easier, though still not easy. If your long run is 10 miles and your total miles for the week is 15, you're going to struggle. If your long run is 10 miles but your total mileage is 30, it's not that hard. During marathon training, I have one long run (2-3.5 hours) and two runs that last 90 minutes or so, plus two shorter ones for recovery or speedwork. Those 8-10 mile MLRs make the 20 milers possible. Finding/making time to do that much training is one reason some people limit the number of marathons they do and a lot of people decide that one is enough.
and this is exactly why i always think i want to do a marathon, until i consider the reality of the training! :laugh:
Amen! I knew it but I didn’t KNOW it until I got up to my eyeballs and it got very real. I’m really feeling like I’m going to be a one and done kind of a girl. My runs are a bit longer than @spiriteagle99. I’m on team “marathons are like mullets: the party is in the back”.
I will second (third?) that the longer mid-week runs makes an enormous difference in making the long runs more manageable. Anything 16+ hits me like a brick if I don’t have the longer mid-week runs to support that. Although the double-digit mid week runs have turned runger into an every 3 day event, and it takes a lot of planning to fit that kind of time into a workday on a regular basis, I don’t think I could be doing the 16-20 mile long runs without those longer mid-week runs.
That's my other issue... unless I am super careful I gain on a half.... I can't imagine how much I would put on training for a full. :laugh:
Ha! I was doing ok sticking with a deficit right up until the mid-week longer Run crossed into double digits. Then It was all over. I feel like a meme. Now maintenance feels like a deficit lol.
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Duck_Puddle wrote: »TavistockToad wrote: »Duck_Puddle wrote: »TavistockToad wrote: »spiriteagle99 wrote: »
Panini911 - the totality of your miles is what has the biggest effect on your ability to run well and race well, not just the length of your long runs. The medium long runs are very important and will make your long runs feel easier, though still not easy. If your long run is 10 miles and your total miles for the week is 15, you're going to struggle. If your long run is 10 miles but your total mileage is 30, it's not that hard. During marathon training, I have one long run (2-3.5 hours) and two runs that last 90 minutes or so, plus two shorter ones for recovery or speedwork. Those 8-10 mile MLRs make the 20 milers possible. Finding/making time to do that much training is one reason some people limit the number of marathons they do and a lot of people decide that one is enough.
and this is exactly why i always think i want to do a marathon, until i consider the reality of the training! :laugh:
Amen! I knew it but I didn’t KNOW it until I got up to my eyeballs and it got very real. I’m really feeling like I’m going to be a one and done kind of a girl. My runs are a bit longer than @spiriteagle99. I’m on team “marathons are like mullets: the party is in the back”.
I will second (third?) that the longer mid-week runs makes an enormous difference in making the long runs more manageable. Anything 16+ hits me like a brick if I don’t have the longer mid-week runs to support that. Although the double-digit mid week runs have turned runger into an every 3 day event, and it takes a lot of planning to fit that kind of time into a workday on a regular basis, I don’t think I could be doing the 16-20 mile long runs without those longer mid-week runs.
That's my other issue... unless I am super careful I gain on a half.... I can't imagine how much I would put on training for a full. :laugh:
Ha! I was doing ok sticking with a deficit right up until the mid-week longer Run crossed into double digits. Then It was all over. I feel like a meme. Now maintenance feels like a deficit lol.
It's getting to double digits that does for me... I'll stick to halfs!0 -
so the mid week run should be one longer run. I can't split that up into like two 5k's (one at lunch, one at night?)
ETA: currently only training for a 15k (which is actually a 5k THEN a 10k race back to back)0 -
so the mid week run should be one longer run. I can't split that up into like two 5k's (one at lunch, one at night?)
ETA: currently only training for a 15k (which is actually a 5k THEN a 10k race back to back)
A marathon is only a 20 mile warm up followed by a 10K...
If you're going to split up a 10K then do it as a 6K and a 7K, to mitigate the loss of training effect from having the break.
Your other option is to identify a plan with back to back longs at the weekend.0 -
I run 5 days a week. My long run wil never be only 20% of my total weekly volume (unless every run were exactly the same distance), and it’s very difficult to make it only 25%.
We try to keep my long run around 30% - sometimes a little more, sometimes a little less. It’s a bit higher now (closer to 40%) for the last few weeks of marathon training but it’ll drop back down again after.
My body doesn’t do well with long runs when they are a significant portion of weekly mileage (there are many marathon plans that have a long run as 50-60% of the weekly total). That’s just too hard on my body and too much of a shock and I don’t recover well from that.
So my marathon plan has as much weekly mileage as I can realistically fit into my life to support the long weekend long runs while still allowing for recovery.
My normal “base” running plan is 90 min, 2x 60 min, 75 min, and 120 min. All with “ish” around those times.
I don’t know about splitting runs (I don’t do that).
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I'm still having trouble picking exactly which race to run lol, I want to make sure i'm counting the weeks right and will end up on the correct days.. So since i started Week 1 this week, would a half marathon on Septemer 23 and the marathon on December 15 be ideal? I wouldn't have to take a week off if I did the race before janurary and I think if I counted right that would be 18 weeks. Here is the plan.. https://www.halhigdon.com/training-programs/marathon-training/novice-1-marathon/
Just pull up the calendar on your phone and count backwards. Technically, you're dead-on timing wise for December 15th though remember that Thanksgiving week will be in there and could disrupt your training.
A half for September 23 would be a bit early for you. The plan has you run that in week 8. Better to find one in the first half of October if possible, or just run it on your own.1 -
Unfortunately the only home town marathon isn't until janurary 27 I think, which would be another month after I'd be ready. Would I risk injury if I kept repeating middle of the training program workouts for a month? Id suck it up and do the December 15 out of town race if that'd be a better option but I agree with the suggestions of doing a home town race if I can since I'll be sleeping in my own bed and eating what I'd normally have for breakfast.
I did find a half marathon for the first week of October only an hour away from me, but 2 miles are on the beach in the sand. Yikes! Any tips for that?? Would you recommend a newbie do that? Sounds like a hard race.0 -
in the monthly running challenge we have people doing high volume running every month. if you train, you should be fine.1
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I didn't understand what one of the users here said about "building my base", does that mean I should increase mileage even more if I wait for the later race? Or does that mean just getting more experience under my belt ?0
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Building a base means building up the number of miles you run regularly - which helps build your aerobic capacity and the muscles/tendons and what not.
So my “Base” is about 30 miles/week (that’s what I typically run all the time when I’m not training for a race).
Training plans generally increase mileage pretty significantly fairly quickly so the higher your base when you start the plan, the better. Plus certain kinds of training don’t really work as well if you don’t have the aerobic base to benefit from them (a lot of fancy speedwork falls into this category).
So building a base means running regularly for a period of time and slowly building the number of miles you run regularly.3 -
It also means that instead of doing a novice 1 plan, you might be able to train with novice 2 or an intermediate level plan. Having more miles allows you to train better, which will make the race go better. It's nice not to end your race with a 6 mile death march.
You could do it separately - train now for a HM in the fall, using a HM specific plan, then aim for the late January race and start a marathon plan based on your mileage when you finish that training. You may discover while doing HM training that you don't actually like doing long runs. Or you may discover that you enjoy doing HMs and prefer to do a few of those before committing to the extra time and effort that is involved in marathon training. Most likely, you'll go into your marathon training with a stronger base and some experience at doing a long race.1
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