Why are tasty and healthy mutually exclusive?

mrmagee3

Where do you get the assumption that IIFYM (as a dietary philosophy) concerns itself in any way with micronutrients? I have not seen any of the IIFYM sites that spends too much time discussing micronutrient intake, nor have I seen it on here.

Honestly? I filed this one under common sense. It's impossible for me to feel full eating foods that will blow one of my macros with absolutely no other benefits in any other area. I'd be a headachy, snarling mess by noon and go over my calorie and macro goals by lunchtime.

Sticking with the twinkie example--two cakes have 46g carbs and 33g sugar. It takes three cups of strawberries to get even close to that at 35g carbs and 21g sugar. Even eating a more realistic amount of strawberries gives me more food mass, more vitamin c, and some dietary fiber. So by trying to fit my macros, I'm making what I assume people would call a healthier food substitution and fitting in my micros as well.

I'm not actually sure we're disagreeing here -- I would suggest that it is likely better for you (i.e. more healthful) to eat strawberries that total 46g carbs and 33g sugar than it is to eat the two twinkies. Most proponents of IIFYM that I've encountered here have argued that it doesn't matter which you pick, as long as at the end of the day, you eat your XYZ ratio of carbs/fat/protein.

I think that strawberries are an innately better choice than the twinkies. A post that was quoted earlier in this thread from johnnythan - "There is no such thing as inherently healthy or unhealthy food."

"As long as you reach your macronutrient and caloric goals for the day, it isn't important how those goals are attained." Do you disagree with that, or care to refine it?

I think I covered this one in my above statement. To match my macro and calorie goals I mostly eat foods that cover my micronutrients as well. Then, at the end of the day if I have the calories to splurge I'll have something fun. If you can do it another way and still have energy for the rest of your life, then more power to ya. I'd envy you for having a physiology that allowed such a thing.

The way you just described your eating style, you get absolutely no argument from me. I realize at this point I should likely be arguing these points with someone else, because I don't think we have a whole lot of diversion of ideas here. For what it's worth, I envy you the ability to splurge more frequently than I do.

From the flip side of the argument, it also gets old to see a post that says something like, "I need help lowering my sugars, because I keep going over," and seeing three dozen responses of "it doesn't matter, just eat the ice cream IIFYM." That's not helpful to the initial post, doesn't provide any real answer, and assumes that just because something works for you, that everyone would want to do it. It's at least as bad as any of the paleo/keto/primal proselytizing that goes on.

I don't really have an answer to this. I haven't seen these posts. I have seen posts where people claim fruit sugar is somehow different from other sugars, rather than the more accurate view that fruits have other benefits like the dietary fiber and vitamins mentioned before. Then said people get mad when they're told sugar is a simple substance no different in a cake or a cantaloupe. And I have seen posts where people claim that sugar tracking is only important for people with health issues concerning blood sugar. Considering this, I do think it's helpful to tell people they can eat high-sugar items such as apples, greek yogurt, and ice cream. You know, if it fits their macros.

They're pretty common. I've seen plenty of the posts you mention as well. And if it fits how you want to eat, I have no issues with anyone choosing to eat any of those things. I have an issue with some people saying that there is no difference in healthfulness between the apple and the ice cream.

On the other hand, you have people that hold that there is no difference in healthfulness between vegetables and a tablespoon of sugar. Again, that's an absurdity.

That's an absurd example, as you yourself said. There's a difference between a carrot and a tablespoon of sugar. There's also a difference between a carrot and vitamin a, but a carrot contains both. It's eating the right amount of carrots (or other food) to get the right amount of the things your body needs to function.

Agree.

[quote

]"You can eat an unhealthy amount of a seemingly healthful food." <--- Agree, as in your avocado example
"You shouldn't feel the need to completely wipe out a food from your diet if you don't want to." <--- Agree as well.
"A food that is generally considered not healthful can be consumed as part of a healthy diet." <--- Agree.
"No foods are any more healthy or unhealthy than any other food." <--- Absolutely disagree, and it doesn't follow from the first three statements.

. . .

Couple issues with this statement: I think you're equating harmful with "fattening", which I don't think is correct. Surely, getting fatter is harmful, but not all harmful things are fattening. Also, I don't think "blame" has any place in this conversation -- because it's not about demonizing a given food in any way. One can say a food is unhealthful without meaning, "you should never eat that food," which is I think a large disconnect in most of these conversations.

I think ice cream is generally unhealthful. It doesn't really add a whole lot of nutrition to my diet. However, ice cream is tasty, so I occasionally eat some, because I like to enjoy life. Nothing wrong with that, and I eat a ketogenic diet. It bumps me out of ketosis for a day or so, and then I'm good to go again.

The reason it's hard to say that any food is inherently harmful is that almost any food will have something you need in it. That ice cream that you like to indulge in as an unhealthful treat has perfectly good calories and carbs for you to run on as well as calcium, protein, and fat. It would be easy to go over your macros and calories without hitting your micronutrients, but that's why you have it in moderation.

I'm really not trying to equate "harmful" with "fattening," and I'm sorry if I left that impression. For the diabetics in my family, going over on fat and carbs would definitely be harmful. It doesn't matter how "healthy" everyone else thought the food they went over with was, the harm would be in the amounts. I think a lot of foods fall into those categories. For you, the carbs in your ice cream are harmful to your diet goals so, like me or anyone else paying attention to macros, you can only eat it if it fits into your carb goals. [/quote]

I'm going to take a slight divergence with your initial statement -- I don't think that ice cream is inherently dangerous, unless you're eating arsenic ice cream or something, and they don't sell that around here. Does ice cream have something you need? Sure. Are there significantly better choices to get you the same stuff? Absolutely. Would you likely be more healthy if you never ate ice cream? Probably. But most people aren't shooting for 100% optimum -- they find something they can work with and go with it.

If, whenever anyone discussed IIFYM, they actually described it as you do and not as a "eat the cake IIFYM", people would likely be better off. Thanks for the good discussion.

Seesawboomerang

I just don't see things as this 'black and white' at all.

There are some calorie-rich foods that are really healthy and tasty
There are some very sweet foods that are really healthy and tasty
There are some bland foods that are really healthy and tasty
There are some gross-tasting foods that are really healthy
There are some gross-tasting foods that are really unhealthy
There are some bland foods that are not at all healthy and not at all tasty
There are some very sweet foods that are not at all healthy nor are they tasty
There are some calorie-rich foods that are not at all healthy nor are the tasty.

There are some foods that sit somewhere in between all of that.

And all of that I just said there, is completely subjective.

Unknown

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dropdeadgreggie_

Not everything you put in your mouth lacks flavor and is unhealthy.