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Diet Coke
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Aaron_K123 wrote: »Mandylou19912014 wrote: »Aaron_K123 wrote: »Mandylou19912014 wrote: »I don’t think it was trying to scare me ... it was really interesting as opposed to scary
Meanwhile in your previous postI read that they made people drink Diet Coke and normal coke in some expeiriment and those drinking Diet Coke has raised insulin levels which is a scary though!
Insulin and glucagon expression and release are regulated on the basis of blood glucose level, not by your taste buds. People who have had their tounges cut out aren't suddenly diabetics incapable of insulin production.
Regardless can you explain why raised insulin levels are scary? I've heard people act like insulin is some sort of boogie man and I dont get it. Your body homeostatically regulates blood glucose levels because it is important for your cellular function to maintain a certain concentration of glucose.
When your blood glucose is too low your pancreas releases the hormone glucagon which triggers your cells to break down the storage molecule glycogen and liberate glucose into your blood. If your blood glucose is too high then your pancreas releases the hormone insulin which triggers your cells to uptake glucose from your blood and either utilize it for energy or store it as glycogen. That is it.
Having elevated insulin levels isnt scary...it just means your body is appropriately responding to your blood glucose level being too high. If that regulatory system is dysfunctional then you are diabetic...either because you cannot produce insulin (type I) or because your cells receptors dont bind insulin to transmit the signal for uptake (type II).
I get your first point, yes I sort of contradicted myself there whoops .. but the reason I find it scary that these diet sodas can raise insulin levels (if only drank in large quantities and certainly not for just one or two a day) Is that too much insulin can lead to serious health problems. Having high levels, also known as hyperinsulinemia, has been linked to obesity, heart disease and cancer (1, 2, 3). High blood insulin levels also cause your cells to become resistant to the hormone's effects.
I assume (1,2,3) is a citation list you didn't include and therefore I assume that was just copy paste from somewhere. Where are you copy pasting this from?
Appears to be from: https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/14-ways-to-lower-insulin3 -
Mandylou19912014 wrote: »I get your first point, yes I sort of contradicted myself there whoops .. but the reason I find it scary that these diet sodas can raise insulin levels (if only drank in large quantities and certainly not for just one or two a day) Is that too much insulin can lead to serious health problems. Having high levels, also known as hyperinsulinemia, has been linked to obesity, heart disease and cancer (1, 2, 3). High blood insulin levels also cause your cells to become resistant to the hormone's effects.
NO, THEY CAN NOT.
That's been made abundantly scientifically clear. Additionally, the person who responded to you above isn't some hack/quack blogger, he's a molecular biologist. Are you a molecular biologist as well?
Let's not do that please....I'd prefer to lean on my actual statements and position and address others actual statements and positions rather than on my title or on the education of the person I'm talking with. Only times I bring up my education is if someone uses some argument of authority where they claim their source is a doctor therefore they are right.16 -
I'm actually surprised to see not one negative comment here. A year ago, my fiance's Dietician told her we had to cut all artificial sweeteners like Crystal Light and diet sodas out of our diet because it was contributing to her slow weight loss. So... was she just a quack?10
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I'm actually surprised to see not one negative comment here. A year ago, my fiance's Dietician told her we had to cut all artificial sweeteners like Crystal Light and diet sodas out of our diet because it was contributing to her slow weight loss. So... was she just a quack?
I would have asked her how a zero calorie beverage can hinder weight loss12 -
I'm actually surprised to see not one negative comment here. A year ago, my fiance's Dietician told her we had to cut all artificial sweeteners like Crystal Light and diet sodas out of our diet because it was contributing to her slow weight loss. So... was she just a quack?
Well, think about it for a minute. How could something with negligible calories contribute to slow weight loss? Weight loss happens when you take in fewer calories than you burn.6 -
I'm actually surprised to see not one negative comment here. A year ago, my fiance's Dietician told her we had to cut all artificial sweeteners like Crystal Light and diet sodas out of our diet because it was contributing to her slow weight loss. So... was she just a quack?
Not necessarily a quack but definitely misinformed.10 -
I'm actually surprised to see not one negative comment here. A year ago, my fiance's Dietician told her we had to cut all artificial sweeteners like Crystal Light and diet sodas out of our diet because it was contributing to her slow weight loss. So... was she just a quack?
Not necessarily a quack. But unfortunately, even folks with legit credentials forget about how to academically vet sources, and fall for "if I hear it enough times from enough people with letters after their names it's true". It's irresponsible, though.
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I'm actually surprised to see not one negative comment here. A year ago, my fiance's Dietician told her we had to cut all artificial sweeteners like Crystal Light and diet sodas out of our diet because it was contributing to her slow weight loss. So... was she just a quack?
Did the dietician explain how a zero calorie beverage was doing this?4 -
Mandylou19912014 wrote: »diannethegeek wrote: »Mandylou19912014 wrote: »I don’t think there is any evidence to suggest that it’s bad for you, but in my opinion diet sodas are pumped with artificial sweeteners which if you drank a lot of can increase your insulin levels which could lead to weight gain. If you drink it moderately then you’ll be absolutely fine
If this were a concern surely they wouldn't be recommended for diabestics?! Do you have more info for the claim that they raise insulin levels? I've heard it before but only seen proof against it.
I’ve read it a few times on various websites and forums, I read that they made people drink Diet Coke and normal coke in some expeiriment and those drinking Diet Coke has raised insulin levels which is a scary though!
Don't believe what you read on the internet. Many diabetics (including myself) have tested that theory and not a single one had their blood sugar rise after drinking a diet soda.
Increasing insulin production would actually make your blood sugar fall not rise. So the claim is that diet soda would lower your blood sugar. I'm not entirely sure that the people who make the claim understand that that is what they are saying.9 -
I'm actually surprised to see not one negative comment here. A year ago, my fiance's Dietician told her we had to cut all artificial sweeteners like Crystal Light and diet sodas out of our diet because it was contributing to her slow weight loss. So... was she just a quack?
She was misinformed and giving poor advice as a result, not sure if that alone qualifies her as a quack.
Think of it this way, diet soda contains essentially no energy. If the result of drinking it was to retain your energy stores (ie not utilize your fat) then you are essentially getting energy from nothing. If this was the case then diet soda would have an excellent use case for applications like the military, athletics or high physical labor jobs where the struggle is to eat enough to sustain the activity or in places where starvation is an issue. You would not have to harness and utilize energy in order to retain energy. In those cases they could drink diet soda to sustain their fat stores and last longer. Michael Phelps could stop having to eat 10,000 calories a day and simply drink some diet coke. Does that make sense to you?
Here is the thing, things that increase fat are bad for people who are fat....but are good for people who require a lot of calories. So if you make the claim for example that it is bad to eat lots of peanut butter because it is highly caloric and will make you fat then what you mean is it is a bad idea for someone who wants to lose weight to eat lots of peanut butter, not that peanut butter itself is bad. Clearly peanut butter is actually excellent for someone say going on a long backpacking trip or working in construction. So is diet soda a good option for people who are trying to maintain or gain weight? Should someone doing a cross country bike trip be chugging back the diet coke in order to not waste away? My guess is that people who claim diet soda is bad just claim it is bad, they wouldn't be going around recommending it to people who were struggling to maintain or gain weight right? Why is that?11 -
Mandylou19912014 wrote: »Aaron_K123 wrote: »Mandylou19912014 wrote: »I don’t think it was trying to scare me ... it was really interesting as opposed to scary
Meanwhile in your previous postI read that they made people drink Diet Coke and normal coke in some expeiriment and those drinking Diet Coke has raised insulin levels which is a scary though!
Insulin and glucagon expression and release are regulated on the basis of blood glucose level, not by your taste buds. People who have had their tounges cut out aren't suddenly diabetics incapable of insulin production.
Regardless can you explain why raised insulin levels are scary? I've heard people act like insulin is some sort of boogie man and I dont get it. Your body homeostatically regulates blood glucose levels because it is important for your cellular function to maintain a certain concentration of glucose.
When your blood glucose is too low your pancreas releases the hormone glucagon which triggers your cells to break down the storage molecule glycogen and liberate glucose into your blood. If your blood glucose is too high then your pancreas releases the hormone insulin which triggers your cells to uptake glucose from your blood and either utilize it for energy or store it as glycogen. That is it.
Having elevated insulin levels isnt scary...it just means your body is appropriately responding to your blood glucose level being too high. If that regulatory system is dysfunctional then you are diabetic...either because you cannot produce insulin (type I) or because your cells receptors dont bind insulin to transmit the signal for uptake (type II).
I get your first point, yes I sort of contradicted myself there whoops .. but the reason I find it scary that these diet sodas can raise insulin levels (if only drank in large quantities and certainly not for just one or two a day) Is that too much insulin can lead to serious health problems. Having high levels, also known as hyperinsulinemia, has been linked to obesity, heart disease and cancer (1, 2, 3). High blood insulin levels also cause your cells to become resistant to the hormone's effects.
Hyperinsulinemia is an issue for type II diabetics, not for anyone else. Type II diabetes is characterized by low binding efficiency of cell receptors (INSR) that normally bind insulin and transmit a signal for cells to uptake glucose thereby lowering blood glucose level. This results in a normal amount of insulin not triggering a normal insulin response and as a result the body regulates the production of insulin. This has absolutely nothing to do with diet soda and is a total misdirect. Not even looking at your article as I am on my phone I can pretty safely assume that if those (1,2,3) citations if they are citing actual science at all are likely citing studies of type II diabetics and not in reference to diet soda consumption. If anyone can find what she is quoting from and look at those citations they can confirm if I am right about that or not.
Or, Mandylou, if you want you should look at what those (1,2,3) are actually referencing and see if "diet soda" is mentioned anywhere or if "Type II diabetes" is mentioned anywhere...my guess, again, is if they are citing actual scientific studies and not just some other website you will find that those studies are going to be with regards to type II diabetics and have nothing to do with diet soda. Websites like the ones you post love to cite studies that have nothing to do with what they are claiming just to give themselves the appearance of backing up their claims.9 -
Now that I started drinking Coke Zero (as well as Cherry Coke Zero and Vanilla Coke Zero), I can't stand the taste of regular. Same with the Dr. Peppers. For some reason, my taste buds hate the regular versions now.0
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Since we've already covered the aspartame-insulin connection (or should I say, the lack thereof), here's another study done entirely on Type II diabetics using sucralose (another artificial sweetener). Subjects were fed 667 mg/day of sucralose (the equivalent of about 17 cans of sucralose-sweetened soda) daily for 13 weeks: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14647086/RESULTS:
There were no significant differences between the sucralose and placebo groups in HbA1c, fasting plasma glucose, or fasting serum C-peptide changes from baseline. There were no clinically meaningful differences between the groups in any safety measure.
CONCLUSIONS:
This study demonstrated that, similar to cellulose, sucralose consumption for 3 months at doses of 7.5 mg/kg/day, which is approximately three times the estimated maximum intake, had no effect on glucose homeostasis in individuals with type 2 diabetes. Additionally, this study showed that sucralose was as well-tolerated by the study subjects as was the placebo.8 -
diannethegeek wrote: »Aaron_K123 wrote: »Mandylou19912014 wrote: »Aaron_K123 wrote: »Mandylou19912014 wrote: »I don’t think it was trying to scare me ... it was really interesting as opposed to scary
Meanwhile in your previous postI read that they made people drink Diet Coke and normal coke in some expeiriment and those drinking Diet Coke has raised insulin levels which is a scary though!
Insulin and glucagon expression and release are regulated on the basis of blood glucose level, not by your taste buds. People who have had their tounges cut out aren't suddenly diabetics incapable of insulin production.
Regardless can you explain why raised insulin levels are scary? I've heard people act like insulin is some sort of boogie man and I dont get it. Your body homeostatically regulates blood glucose levels because it is important for your cellular function to maintain a certain concentration of glucose.
When your blood glucose is too low your pancreas releases the hormone glucagon which triggers your cells to break down the storage molecule glycogen and liberate glucose into your blood. If your blood glucose is too high then your pancreas releases the hormone insulin which triggers your cells to uptake glucose from your blood and either utilize it for energy or store it as glycogen. That is it.
Having elevated insulin levels isnt scary...it just means your body is appropriately responding to your blood glucose level being too high. If that regulatory system is dysfunctional then you are diabetic...either because you cannot produce insulin (type I) or because your cells receptors dont bind insulin to transmit the signal for uptake (type II).
I get your first point, yes I sort of contradicted myself there whoops .. but the reason I find it scary that these diet sodas can raise insulin levels (if only drank in large quantities and certainly not for just one or two a day) Is that too much insulin can lead to serious health problems. Having high levels, also known as hyperinsulinemia, has been linked to obesity, heart disease and cancer (1, 2, 3). High blood insulin levels also cause your cells to become resistant to the hormone's effects.
I assume (1,2,3) is a citation list you didn't include and therefore I assume that was just copy paste from somewhere. Where are you copy pasting this from?
Appears to be from: https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/14-ways-to-lower-insulin
I was wondering where that came from...
Interesting. Not one of those suggestions said to reduce zero/low calorie soda. In fact, it contained this tidbit:In contrast, the group who added artificially sweetened foods to their usual diet experienced a 3% decrease in fasting insulin levels7 -
nutmegoreo wrote: »I was wondering where that came from...
Interesting. Not one of those suggestions said to reduce zero/low calorie soda. In fact, it contained this tidbit:In contrast, the group who added artificially sweetened foods to their usual diet experienced a 3% decrease in fasting insulin levels
I read the entire article too (rolling my eyes a few times at all the woo along the way). I must have missed the part about reducing diet soda/artificial sweeteners too, because I didn't see any such thing anywhere in the whole article.
I did see that part about artificial sweeteners decreasing insulin levels, though. That's not a very compelling argument for the opinion put forth that artificial sweeteners increase insulin levels.4 -
Is it really surprising to anyone with any basic physiology knowledge (and I mean basic) that, in healthy people diet coke will not cause insulin rise and regular coke will.
That is what insulin does - it rises in response to blood glucose in order to regulate it to healthy range. Why does anyone think this is a bad thing????
In diabetics, diet coke does not cause insulin rise either, - but that is ok as diet coke does not contain any sugar needing insulin to rise to.
Regular coke does not cause insulin rise in diabetics (or not to full extent) and that is bad - because then they would have unhealthy high blood sugar levels.
Therefore diabetics should not drink regular coke but diet is fine.
Sorry, I feel I have written that in patronising language suitable for explanation to 6 year old
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Aaron_K123 wrote: »
Hyperinsulinemia is an issue for type II diabetics, not for anyone else. Type II diabetes is characterized by low binding efficiency of cell receptors (INSR) that normally bind insulin and transmit a signal for cells to uptake glucose thereby lowering blood glucose level. This results in a normal amount of insulin not triggering a normal insulin response and as a result the body regulates the production of insulin. This has absolutely nothing to do with diet soda and is a total misdirect. Not even looking at your article as I am on my phone I can pretty safely assume that if those (1,2,3) citations if they are citing actual science at all are likely citing studies of type II diabetics and not in reference to diet soda consumption. If anyone can find what she is quoting from and look at those citations they can confirm if I am right about that or not.
Confirmed - all three references are scientific review articles in reference to type 2 diabetes (although the paper regarding cancer did also mention metabolic syndrome, PCOS, and obesity).
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i find this photo absolutely fascinating.
it is of Leonard Thompson who was first human to receive insulin in 1922.
He goes from brink of death to (relatively) healthy once he has insulin in his body and can utilise blood sugar.
Prior to that his blood sugar levels would of been astronomically high but his body cannot convert that to cell nutrition.
That is what insulin (natural or artificial) does - it converts blood sugar to cell nutrition.
This is a good thing.
Insulin spikes in healthy people are not scary - they are normal response.
the only insulin spike which would scare anyone is (artificial) insulin dependant diabetics - who can get low blood sugar if they have their insulin and do not eat.
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paperpudding wrote: »the only insulin spike which would scare anyone is (artificial) insulin dependant diabetics - who can get low blood sugar if they have their insulin and do not eat.
Unfortunately, we have scaremongering charlatans like Fung and Taubes telling everybody that insulin iz teh debilz and that everybody should fear it.10 -
I confess to have fallen dangerously in like of the relatively new Diet Coke Ginger Lime.3
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