The psychology of needing to eat until stuffed - a discussion

jjpptt2

I knew a few people here have struggled with this
I also know it's probably not an easy/simply/clean discussion... not if X then do Y.

But I also know there are some smart, thoughtful, experienced people here.
I also know that there is a HUGE wealth of experiences on the board. So I put this out there...

Does anyone have any insight on the psychology of "needing" to eat until stuffed? Not just until you are full or no longer hungry... but stuffed, maybe uncomfortably so. I've struggled with emotional eating in the past (and probably will continue to), but I've made significant progress on identifying the whys and creating new habits/responses. However, I continue to struggle with the need to eat until I'm stuffed. From what I've read here, many would suggest there are signs of an ED.

I do think it's a mental/psychological thing, rather than something physical, as it seems to be rooted more in something like instant gratification or satisfaction rather than anything bigger picture like calorie or nutrient needs. But aside from that, I'm not sure where to start looking/thinking about things.

So...
- thoughts?
- questions?


TIA.

kommodevaran

I have only this - if it's ED, eating beyond uncomfortably stuffed can be used as self-harm/punishment. But an ED diagnosis must be set on more solid grounds than just one or two "signs". So it can also be a reaction to deprivation over time (like extreme dieting or too strict rules growing up). Or my "favorite", learned from hundreds or thousands of meals with a mom so anxious to get her little kommodevaran to eat enough, that no kind or degree of pressure and emotional manipulation could be left untried.

jjpptt2

kommodevaran wrote: »

I have only this - if it's ED, eating beyond uncomfortably stuffed can be used as self-harm/punishment. But an ED diagnosis must be set on more solid grounds than just one or two "signs". So it can also be a reaction to deprivation over time (like extreme dieting or too strict rules growing up). Or my "favorite", learned from hundreds or thousands of meals with a mom so anxious to get her little kommodevaran to eat enough, that no kind or degree of pressure and emotional manipulation could be left untried.

Let's see...

1. Self harm/punishment -- I don't think that's it. That's some of the emotional eating problems I've dealt with in the past (which will probably creep up again at some point), but this seems different.
2. Reaction to deprivation -- hmmm. My initial reaction was no, that's not it as it's just as likely to happen during days/weeks of calorie surplus than it is deficit. However, thinking more finely... it could be related to shorter term deprivation/restriction (think IF eating patterns... long periods of fasting could be a trigger rather than weeks of low calorie intake triggering something).
3. Conditioning or learned behavior -- I think there is some connection here to habitual behavior, but I think there is more to it than simply habit. I'll have ot think on that a bit more, though.

quiksylver296

Is it a control issue? Almost like "Nyah, nyah, nyah. I'll do what I want when I want. Screw you, diet/healthy lifestyle."?

Running_and_Coffee

I'm going to admit that I'm fascinated by this concept because I don't understand it, and always worry (fear) that there's a slippery slope for me/for us all when it comes to eating for pleasure. Honestly, I have watched TV shows like My 600 Lb. Life to try to understand eating not only beyond satiety but beyond even feeling full.

Is there an adrenaline rush from eating larger quantities?

Is it comforting? When a kid skins his knee, sometimes you give him a lollipop to make him feel better...when a baby cries, sometimes your instinct is to feed the baby even if the baby is crying because he/she needs a nap or something else. Is that related?

cheryldumais

I think it's sometimes a chemical thing. The release of happy hormones when we eat. We are emotional beings and when hurt or tired or whatever... We eat to get a lift. So it is a case of chasing that high. I have learned that I ate long past enjoyment for a very long time hoping to recapture that good feeling the first few bites gave me. Now if I overeat I feel sick so I've smartened up a bit but it is always waiting in the wings if I let my guard down.

Since I tend to be high stress most of the time I've learned to take a walk to destress and that helps.

sardelsa

Maybe it's a biological built in feeling to stuff oneself to prepare for a future famine? Or maybe for pleasure comfort? Otherwise I am not sure.

alicebhsia1

well, i think it's about comfort (not over-over-stuffed mind you) what's better than a full tummy and a nice nap?? when i get the urge to feel stuffed full i eat like two whole sauteed zuchinnis or summer squashes with some garlic and sometimes parmesan cheese. it's a nice way to feel stuffed without eating too many calories. big difference between being stuffed full of veggies and say like pizza..

jjpptt2

quiksylver296 wrote: »

Is it a control issue? Almost like "Nyah, nyah, nyah. I'll do what I want when I want. Screw you, diet/healthy lifestyle."?

I do have some of that in me, yes... but I don't think it's part of this conversation/scenario.

jjpptt2

cheryldumais wrote: »

I think it's sometimes a chemical thing. The release of happy hormones when we eat. We are emotional beings and when hurt or tired or whatever... We eat to get a lift. So it is a case of chasing that high. I have learned that I ate long past enjoyment for a very long time hoping to recapture that good feeling the first few bites gave me. Now if I overeat I feel sick so I've smartened up a bit but it is always waiting in the wings if I let my guard down.

Since I tend to be high stress most of the time I've learned to take a walk to destress and that helps.

This is ringing loudly for me... let me mull this over a bit, but I think you might be on to something...

I've struggled to understand this largely because it happens both when I'm feeling a bit down AND when I'm riding a high. Your comment would potentially address both situations - looking for a high and riding an existing high.

Crafty_camper123

I'm guessing it has a lot to do with learned behaviors. A lot of kids are taught to clear their plates of the food they were served, or served themselves. Otherwise, it is considered wasteful and rude. Regardless if they aren't hungry, or had enough to eat. The other part of it (I'm assuming) has a lot to do with the reward control centers of the brain. That dopamine release when we eat something tasty. I know for me personally, that is where I struggle the most with overeating. If the food is really good, my brain gets stuck in a "YUM. MORE!" cycle. That is sometimes hard to break out of. Even though I know the consequences of overeating. (That heavy, bloated, blah feeling.)

kimny72

I know someone like that - will continue to eat if there is more food on the table, uses ALL the condiments, etc until he is uncomfortable. Doesn't overeat if there isn't food sitting in front of him, like he won't go into the fridge or pantry and stuff himself. Will finish other peoples plates at a restaurant "so it doesn't go to waste". Says it's because he grew up poor and hungry in a large family. Always had to fight for his share and be prepared for the days when there wasn't anything to eat.

I would think the answer in his situation would be mindfulness techniques and if that doesn't work, therapy. He is barely overweight though, as he is rarely now in situations where there are tables full of too much food.

Not sure if anything like that applies to your situation, or it's another angle to cross off the list!

jjpptt2

Crafty_camper123 wrote: »

I'm guessing it has a lot to do with learned behaviors. A lot of kids are taught to clear their plates of the food they were served, or served themselves. Otherwise, it is considered wasteful and rude. Regardless if they aren't hungry, or had enough to eat. The other part of it (I'm assuming) has a lot to do with the reward control centers of the brain. That dopamine release when we eat something tasty. I know for me personally, that is where I struggle the most with overeating. If the food is really good, my brain gets stuck in a "YUM. MORE!" cycle. That is sometimes hard to break out of. Even though I know the consequences of overeating. (That heavy, bloated, blah feeling.)

This is absolutely part of it. I know that, but seeing it spelled out this way is helpful.

Cassandraw3

Could it be perhaps a nutrient deficiency? I noticed on a few occasions that days where I ate low protein, I had that feeling. I had a protein bar and the feeling faded away. Your body/mind may be telling you to eat more to make up for something you are missing. Just a thought.

kds10

jjpptt2 wrote: »

Crafty_camper123 wrote: »

I'm guessing it has a lot to do with learned behaviors. A lot of kids are taught to clear their plates of the food they were served, or served themselves. Otherwise, it is considered wasteful and rude. Regardless if they aren't hungry, or had enough to eat. The other part of it (I'm assuming) has a lot to do with the reward control centers of the brain. That dopamine release when we eat something tasty. I know for me personally, that is where I struggle the most with overeating. If the food is really good, my brain gets stuck in a "YUM. MORE!" cycle. That is sometimes hard to break out of. Even though I know the consequences of overeating. (That heavy, bloated, blah feeling.)

This is absolutely part of it. I know that, but seeing it spelled out this way is helpful.

Yeah that happens to me....if I am loving what I am eating very hard to stop. I am trying to train myself to stop eating even if I still feel somewhat hungry...very hard to do and still does not feel right in some ways! I think for me I still have those all or nothing tendancies where food is concerned because for so long "tomorrow" was going to be a fresh start thus I would try and eat whatever stuff was in the house that I considered "bad", i.e. white bread, chips, etc. etc., so I would find myself eating non stop in order to purge the kitchen of "bad/tempting/triggering" food even though I was not hungry.

kds10

What scares me too is how easy it is to resort to bad eating habits such as eating too much even after months of supposedly eating in control:(

mhetzel1983

Intuitive Eating is a good book that details the many reasons why people overeat. It's very interesting. They mention many of the reasons stated in this thread. For me, it was emotional eating and response to deprivation. But there are lots of reasons people eat to that level of fullness.

annaskiski

I think its a happy/comfort feeling.
"I'm stuffed. All is right with the world"

That's part of the reason I like IF. Two big meals make me happy.

elelja945

I think it may be a way to both mentally and physically feel numb or escape. When I eat to uncomfortable fullness, everything stops. My brain is on cruise control. I am eating but have gone way past tasting the food. Brain numb. Next my body is so full I can not comfortably move. Body immobile. There are no past regrets, no future consequences, and presently I am incapacitated.

sytchequeen

because Dopamine?

some studies have looked at the possibility of dopamine release through eating creating a "reward" effect on eating, leading to over eating.

I'm sure there will be other studies saying that is rubbish, but that is the nature of studies.

Gamliela

I'll share my experience with this. Last spring I ate over three quarters of a lemon pie. It was in the evening after a normal, well no, a day of eating over maintenance calories. It wasn't deprivation that drove the pie eating, because I hadn't been restricting calories for a couple of months. That day I had had many of my favorite foods too, nut butter, tarelli ( italian crackers shaped into loops made from flour and olive oil) and three regular meals. I remember that I was feeling lonely and disapointed. A house we had been negotiating to buy didn't work out and after three months of difficulties and hassels concerning this we were leaving the country of my dreams to go back to a place I really dont like living. I could accept that ok I thought. Our landlords were a lovely couple and she was especially good at baking, she dropped by to say goodbye and very thoughtfully gifted us with a beautiful lemon pie that evening. So of course we each had a slice and three quarters of it was left over.

Since then nothing like that has happened again. I did feel full before I started eating the leftover pie. So eating it was making me very much fuller. I didn't feel stuffed, but my full and hungry signals aren't reliable any time.

I find that I am less tempted to overeat when I am cutting back on calories than when I am in maintenance or over, thats when I am more likely to eat just for comfort, or to stop emotions and feelings of anxiety or stress.

Excersize also helps. For me, keeping a lot of activity in my life keeps overeating to a minimum.

Dealing with my emotions, anxiety, stress by talking it out or just letting myself feel them has been very beneficial as well.

This is a very interesting topic for discussion and I look forward to watching it.

kds10

annaskiski wrote: »

I think its a happy/comfort feeling.
"I'm stuffed. All is right with the world"

That's part of the reason I like IF. Two big meals make me happy.

I am doing IF too, it has really clicked with me...I have lost 26 lbs since end of March. For the last 4 or 5 years I struggled with the all or nothing aspect of my eating and had no success in losing weight. Don't get me wrong I have had a few days since I started IF where I ate outside of my eating window however I always go back to IF. I think the good part is IF is becoming more ingrained in my life and even when I have a day or two where my eating is out of control and I am eating from sun up to sundown I know I will always go back to IF.

CSARdiver

The majority of these habits are developed in early childhood, so this feels "normal" later in life. At early adulthood your genetics begin to have greater influence as opposed to environment.

The habits you develop follow a pattern. Hormones also follow this pattern. Any shifts from this pattern end up in temporary chaos while your body attempts to restore order. As hormones are free cycling if you are overweight this further compounds the issue and tends toward chaos.

It is very much rooted in psychology, but we are biological, so everything is connected. Your chances of restoring order increase if you initiate positive changes on multiple root causes.

kds10

CSARdiver wrote: »

The majority of these habits are developed in early childhood, so this feels "normal" later in life. At early adulthood your genetics begin to have greater influence as opposed to environment.

The habits you develop follow a pattern. Hormones also follow this pattern. Any shifts from this pattern end up in temporary chaos while your body attempts to restore order. As hormones are free cycling if you are overweight this further compounds the issue and tends toward chaos.

It is very much rooted in psychology, but we are biological, so everything is connected. Your chances of restoring order increase if you initiate positive changes on multiple root causes.

I agree...I have always eaten fast and I think it is because growing up you ate fast so you could have seconds, etc. before the food ran out so I continue this today. Plus eating fast I would typically eat way more than I should because time I start feeling full I have eaten way more than I should have....

smolmaus

jjpptt2 wrote: »

This is ringing loudly for me... let me mull this over a bit, but I think you might be on to something...

I've struggled to understand this largely because it happens both when I'm feeling a bit down AND when I'm riding a high. Your comment would potentially address both situations - looking for a high and riding an existing high.

I can relate to this too. I was used to overeating when sad or anxious, the first time it happened when I was having a really good day was a very unwelcome surprise. But food is used culturally both for comfort and for celebration so it's not too outlandish an idea.

jjpptt2

Cassandraw3 wrote: »

Could it be perhaps a nutrient deficiency? I noticed on a few occasions that days where I ate low protein, I had that feeling. I had a protein bar and the feeling faded away. Your body/mind may be telling you to eat more to make up for something you are missing. Just a thought.

I don't think so, but I don't really know enough about how the body responds to deficiency, aside from hydration needs.

From my experience, I'd be more inclined to say the opposite - that increased intake of fats/salts/sugars yield increased "cravings" for fats/salts/sugars. But that could totally be correlation and not causation.

jjpptt2

CSARdiver wrote: »

The majority of these habits are developed in early childhood, so this feels "normal" later in life. At early adulthood your genetics begin to have greater influence as opposed to environment.

The habits you develop follow a pattern. Hormones also follow this pattern. Any shifts from this pattern end up in temporary chaos while your body attempts to restore order. As hormones are free cycling if you are overweight this further compounds the issue and tends toward chaos.

It is very much rooted in psychology, but we are biological, so everything is connected. Your chances of restoring order increase if you initiate positive changes on multiple root causes.

I don't disagree. I was hoping that this thread might give me some insight on what angles from which ot attack the problems.

psychod787

CSARdiver wrote: »

The majority of these habits are developed in early childhood, so this feels "normal" later in life. At early adulthood your genetics begin to have greater influence as opposed to environment.

The habits you develop follow a pattern. Hormones also follow this pattern. Any shifts from this pattern end up in temporary chaos while your body attempts to restore order. As hormones are free cycling if you are overweight this further compounds the issue and tends toward chaos.

It is very much rooted in psychology, but we are biological, so everything is connected. Your chances of restoring order increase if you initiate positive changes on multiple root causes.

I am just personally a volume eater by nature. Feels good to be full. The difference for me now I choose lower calories dense foods to eat. When I do have indulgences, I always savor them slowly and mindfully. In the past I would just fly through them.

hesn92

For me I'm hoping that if I stay mindful of my eating and telling myself to not eat until I'm stuffed that eventually it will become my new habit. For now it's a conscious behavior that I have to be really aware of. I think maybe it's a combination of natural instinct (since "in the wild" a lot of animals will do the same thing, stuff themselves because they don't know when their next meal will be... my dog does this) and learned habits from childhood (being told to clean your plate, etc.) for me I didn't have my mom telling me to clean my plate so I can't blame it on my parents. lol.

Cassandraw3

jjpptt2 wrote: »

Cassandraw3 wrote: »

Could it be perhaps a nutrient deficiency? I noticed on a few occasions that days where I ate low protein, I had that feeling. I had a protein bar and the feeling faded away. Your body/mind may be telling you to eat more to make up for something you are missing. Just a thought.

I don't think so, but I don't really know enough about how the body responds to deficiency, aside from hydration needs.

From my experience, I'd be more inclined to say the opposite - that increased intake of fats/salts/sugars yield increased "cravings" for fats/salts/sugars. But that could totally be correlation and not causation.

That I could see. I know there have been studies done of the effects of sugar on the brain. I recall hearing at one point that the brain responds somewhat similar to sugar as it does to cocaine and that a study with rats showed they actually preferred sugar over cocaine. However, such comparisons have been considered controversial.

IHaveMyActTogether

Maybe you are eating hyperpalatable foods?

They literally figured out that really sweet foods will taste too sweet after a few bites, and really salty items taste too salty after a short while.

So they found a point where the fat, salt and sugar ratio was just so that you keep eating them past your satiation point (think potato chips and cookies), what food scientists call the "bliss point." That's why you have sugar and salt in things you wouldn't think would be needed in either (salt in candy, sugar in tomato sauce).

If you notice you only gorge on certain TYPES of foods, that might be the issue.


For me, an example is potatoes. I can eat one baked potato and not want any more. I don't need to use portion control on baked potatoes. But I've had to intentionally portion control chips and fries, until I naturally eat less of these than before.

Worse is if I homecook scallopped potatoes (no cream, just thin sliced stewed potatoes and seasonings), it's like a bottomless appetite for it. I can go three potatoes and still want more. My scallopped potatoes recipe has a bliss point that allows me to eat far larger quanties than I would otherwise. Portion control doesn't "work." I just end up eating as much as is available.

Best wishes on figuring out the source of your eating past fullness and overcoming it!