The psychology of needing to eat until stuffed - a discussion

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Replies

  • kds10
    kds10 Posts: 452 Member
    kds10 wrote: »
    What is hard when you tell yourself to stop eating and still feel like you can eat way more...that is hard to get used to. But I figure I am a work in progress and IF has taught me some semblance of control, I am not 100% perfect but way better than pre IF. I also have learned that being hungry is okay, I will not die from starvation.

    I tried IF, but I wake up too hungry and my attempts at keeping the hunger at bay just gives me headaches and a caffeine/coffee tummy. Hubby will eat a small-ish breakfast (250 calories) and then he can go all the way to dinner without eating anything. Nope. Not me. Too hangry.

    I still clean my plate and meal plan, so that I get to eat all of whatever it is I've planned for the day. I have to eat ALL the food. Knowing that about myself made the process so much easier.

    Man, I wish I could be like that...eat a small breakfast and that sustains me all day...nope an hour later I would be hungry again sigh:( I always hear about these people who forget to eat and it is like wtf...I don't think I have ever forgotten to eat!!
  • CSARdiver
    CSARdiver Posts: 6,252 Member
    jjpptt2 wrote: »
    CSARdiver wrote: »
    jjpptt2 wrote: »
    kimny72 wrote: »
    jjpptt2 wrote: »
    I want to expand on my reply. I don't usually think of myself as an emotional eater, but of course I'm too. And I have learned to associate food with many things - situations, emotions, times and places, smell, sound, textures, shapes and colors. And learned to expect many things from food, many things that food can't do - food has no other purposes besides "taste good" and "keep me alive" - which certainly isn't unimportant. But there is a need for balance, and I would need a lot of food to accomplish what my subconscious mind belives it should do for me!

    Care to go further with that?
    I think there is some circular reasoning going on, "food will fix this, but the problem is overwhelming, so I need lots of food". Because I'm not really able to short circuit that argument, and truly convince myself that "hunger is not the problem, so food is not the solution". There is also a massive exposure to food cues - food is everywhere, and food is made into so many shapes and colors that resemble everyday non-food objects, it's hard to not be reminded of the taste and mouthfeel. I don't overeat massively/often anymore, but I have urges often because my rational mind is in conflict with my arational mind. To keep this conflict from escalating, it's important that I'm well fed and rested and manage stress.

    This is interesting. Whenever I feel physically "off" in any way - a headache, congested, fatigued, sore, feverish, lack of focus - my first instinct is "Maybe I'm hungry! Let's eat something." probably because I do often get a headache when I'm legit hungry. And if it doesn't work right away, I'll often just keep eating. Not necessarily to the point of being uncomfortable, but certainly more food than I would have an actual appetite for. I don't do this for emotional situations, like I don't eat when I'm depressed or scared, but I do for physical issues. I guess a form of emotional eating at least!
    I find it interesting too, so I may very well be rambling, but...
    We generally have very safe and easy and predictable lives nowadays, and we're not "designed" for that - so up pops "bucket lists" and "buy these shoes this fall" and "things to see when you're in Botswana" - the media is now telling us what we should be "hunting" for. We also have alarm systems that go off regularly. Most of the times, it's a false alarm. I can wake up in the middle of the night, possibly just by random sound, so when I search, I find no threats, I could just go back to sleep - but then my mind wanders instead - did I make a fool of myself today, is that a toothache, could I have cancer? A quiet evening, my mind is at ease, I don't want anything, I don't need anything, but I'm so used to think that I am or should be "after" something, anything, that the first time I felt that, I wondered if I was depressed!? And my go-to for "something missing", that's right, that's food: "OK, I can always find something to eat!"

    I find this really interesting... the whole idea that we aren't evolving fast enough to suit our current environment.

    Oh now you're really chasing rabbits down holes. I've been delving into evolutionary biology more and came to the same conclusion. Our entire society has been based upon a majority not having enough and now the Western societies have all our needs satisfied we have an almost instinctive nature to create chaos. This impacts our lives in a multitude of ways - eating, health, relationships, politics, etc. We don't believe we "need" the rigidity of societal constructs, but we have not learned to act independently yet.

    As in nearly everything each individual thrives in a specific range of stress. Too much or too little we panic and start acting irrationally. There are a few experiments being conducted now, but the data has only begun to trickle in. I'm suspecting that purpose and responsibility are primary unseen drivers, but we have yet to design and experiment to capture these illusive factors.

    To (hopefully) keep the derailing potential to a minimum... do you have any good suggested reading? This whole concept fascinates me.

    It's primarily a combination of the scholarship of Bret Weinstein, Jordan Peterson, and Jonathan Haidt.

    https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1090513804000820?via=ihub

    https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fnins.2011.00074/full

    Jonathan Haidt made a very interesting comment in a video recently where he observed that as humans move away from highly structure organized religions, these become replaced with less organized structures. This helps explain why speaking to elimination dieters becomes remarkably similar to speaking with cultists. Makes sense as we are creatures of habit - removal of one habit requires replacement with another.

  • fitoverfortymom
    fitoverfortymom Posts: 3,452 Member
    kds10 wrote: »
    kds10 wrote: »
    What is hard when you tell yourself to stop eating and still feel like you can eat way more...that is hard to get used to. But I figure I am a work in progress and IF has taught me some semblance of control, I am not 100% perfect but way better than pre IF. I also have learned that being hungry is okay, I will not die from starvation.

    I tried IF, but I wake up too hungry and my attempts at keeping the hunger at bay just gives me headaches and a caffeine/coffee tummy. Hubby will eat a small-ish breakfast (250 calories) and then he can go all the way to dinner without eating anything. Nope. Not me. Too hangry.

    I still clean my plate and meal plan, so that I get to eat all of whatever it is I've planned for the day. I have to eat ALL the food. Knowing that about myself made the process so much easier.

    Man, I wish I could be like that...eat a small breakfast and that sustains me all day...nope an hour later I would be hungry again sigh:( I always hear about these people who forget to eat and it is like wtf...I don't think I have ever forgotten to eat!!

    I never in my life have forgotten to eat. :D
  • Styggian
    Styggian Posts: 465 Member
    A really interesting thread, think it needs to be read a couple of times for all the information to sink in, thank you all for sharing.
  • 1020Chelsea
    1020Chelsea Posts: 5 Member
    I’ve used the psychology of using the ‘reward’ of having the tasty meal as leftovers later to help me stop eating when I’m full. Especially when out at restaurants. If you stop early then you get a tasty treat later!
  • Evamutt
    Evamutt Posts: 2,794 Member
    I probably am not addressing this fully, but I do feel a need to feel full (but not stuffed) when I eat. I think mine came from that I was born in a different country & altho I don't remember, we used to stand in long lines to get bread. As an adult I always had this lingering fear of going hungry & couldn't stand to see food wasted but I've goten so much better over the years & even gotten picky of what I eat. I have settled my eating habits over the 2 years I've been doing mfp to having a hearty brunch & dinner with lite snacks in between
  • CSARdiver
    CSARdiver Posts: 6,252 Member
    jjpptt2 wrote: »
    As I've tried to be more cognisant of my feelings/wants/"needs"/etc surrounding this issue, I think I have a greater interest (I'm not sure the right word here) in the anticipation of eating an entire pizza plus a burger and fries than I do in actually eating all of that.

    I've done a bit of reading and that does seem to be a thing (indications of it being a thing, no proof that I've come across, FWIW)... that some people get more stimulus/response from the anticipation than from the actual eating.


    Just putting that out there as I think it's interesting and relevant to the discussion, not because I'm necessarily looking for anyone to confirm or refute.

    Oh there is tremendous insight and truth in this statement and it is true about all aspects in life. Humans tend to love the anticipation of acts more than the actual act. This is reality stirring our imagination/fantasy.
  • kpk54
    kpk54 Posts: 4,474 Member
    edited September 2018
    I've been reading along. I don't think anyone has mentioned the research of Dr. Stephan Guyenet, PhD. He is a neuroscientist who studies obesity and has many incredibly interesting videos on youtube which may shed some light on this topic. At about 10 or 11 minutes he gets into the idea of: if people don't want to gain weight or be "unhealthy", why then do they over eat. His focus is "brain regulation of body fatness" among other things. Pretty darn interesting stuff which we can ultimately learn to control if we are aware. It may be helpful for some to take an hour or so to listen to this interview (and there are many more):
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g9fhq-uwh18

    ETA: at ~19:40 he starts talking about why you could be "stuffed" after a big dinner but still eat a huge amount of dessert not being the least bit hungry.
  • jjpptt2
    jjpptt2 Posts: 5,650 Member
    kpk54 wrote: »
    I've been reading along. I don't think anyone has mentioned the research of Dr. Stephan Guyenet, PhD. He is a neuroscientist who studies obesity and has many incredibly interesting videos on youtube which may shed some light on this topic. At about 10 or 11 minutes he gets into the idea of: if people don't want to gain weight or be "unhealthy", why then do they over eat. His focus is "brain regulation of body fatness" among other things. Pretty darn interesting stuff which we can ultimately learn to control if we are aware. It may be helpful for some to take an hour or so to listen to this interview (and there are many more):
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g9fhq-uwh18

    ETA: at ~19:40 he starts talking about why you could be "stuffed" after a big dinner but still eat a huge amount of dessert not being the least bit hungry.

    I've got one of his books... it's heavy reading, but good info. I should try to get past page 75 at some point...
  • elisa123gal
    elisa123gal Posts: 4,333 Member
    I have not been a 400 pound person.. or a binge eater, or night eater.. all these things mystify me. Yet, it is just as much of a mystery to me as to why let myself get overweight by 20 or 30 pounds. I bet they feel the same way.
  • mr_jmac
    mr_jmac Posts: 3 Member
    When one eats (or over eats) until the point they are stuffed what is happening in your brain is similar to what happens when someone takes drugs. Chemicals/neurotransmitters are released just like when you take a drug. It creates a high. This is why food is addictive as well and once you start eating it can be difficult to stop. It is related to your mental state as well just as a drug addict.
  • WillingtoLose1001984
    WillingtoLose1001984 Posts: 240 Member
    edited September 2018
    jjpptt2 wrote: »
    I knew a few people here have struggled with this
    I also know it's probably not an easy/simply/clean discussion... not if X then do Y.

    But I also know there are some smart, thoughtful, experienced people here.
    I also know that there is a HUGE wealth of experiences on the board. So I put this out there...

    Does anyone have any insight on the psychology of "needing" to eat until stuffed? Not just until you are full or no longer hungry... but stuffed, maybe uncomfortably so. I've struggled with emotional eating in the past (and probably will continue to), but I've made significant progress on identifying the whys and creating new habits/responses. However, I continue to struggle with the need to eat until I'm stuffed. From what I've read here, many would suggest there are signs of an ED.

    I do think it's a mental/psychological thing, rather than something physical, as it seems to be rooted more in something like instant gratification or satisfaction rather than anything bigger picture like calorie or nutrient needs. But aside from that, I'm not sure where to start looking/thinking about things.

    So...
    - thoughts?
    - questions?


    TIA.

    I think weight and eating is a very physical, genetic thing. I honestly don't think it is as psychological as people make it out to be. I struggled with my weight all my life and my son does too. My sister is very thin on the verge of underweight and her children are too. I never wanted to eat until stuffed but I do as an adult like to be full and have that sensation. I think some people get that sensation more easily than others and others just don't care. It is possible to get beyond your genetics but it takes a lot of work and a complete, permanent lifestyle change or surgery! lol
  • Keladelphia
    Keladelphia Posts: 820 Member
    jjpptt2 wrote: »
    kshama2001 wrote: »
    Maybe you are eating hyperpalatable foods?

    They literally figured out that really sweet foods will taste too sweet after a few bites, and really salty items taste too salty after a short while.

    So they found a point where the fat, salt and sugar ratio was just so that you keep eating them past your satiation point (think potato chips and cookies), what food scientists call the "bliss point." That's why you have sugar and salt in things you wouldn't think would be needed in either (salt in candy, sugar in tomato sauce).

    If you notice you only gorge on certain TYPES of foods, that might be the issue.


    For me, an example is potatoes. I can eat one baked potato and not want any more. I don't need to use portion control on baked potatoes. But I've had to intentionally portion control chips and fries, until I naturally eat less of these than before.

    Worse is if I homecook scallopped potatoes (no cream, just thin sliced stewed potatoes and seasonings), it's like a bottomless appetite for it. I can go three potatoes and still want more. My scallopped potatoes recipe has a bliss point that allows me to eat far larger quanties than I would otherwise. Portion control doesn't "work." I just end up eating as much as is available.

    Best wishes on figuring out the source of your eating past fullness and overcoming it!

    Is that from "Salt, Sugar, Fat"? Fascinating book!

    When I eat 400-500 calories of chicken, broccoli, and potato, or Thai Beef salad, I am full, but not overstuffed, and have no urge to eat more.

    When I have hyper-palatable foods like pizza, I want to eat and eat and eat. It's a real challenge to not. Having a large salad with pizza helps.
    I'm using the term hyper-palatable foods less and less, but I do have the idea in the back of my head that food should taste good, but not too good - it helps. I have found that I need to work for my food, I want to be hungry enough to bother with preparation and chewing. My appetite is actually a good guide - I know that when I'm ready for just about any food, I'm hungry, whereas not really in mood for anything but candy or chips, but strongly so, I'm not hungry, I just want "something"; and as I am well nourished and warm and safe, figuring out what that "something" is, is hard. Most days I eat normal, ordinary foods for most or all meals. I deliberately reserve treat foods for special occasions, which doesn't have to be more special than "Saturday" - finding the balance here is so important and quite difficult; when I grew up, treats were "bad", according to my mother, who never said so explicitly, but implied that treats would ruin my health, and absolute abstaining was commendable.

    This continues to stick with me, and is something I need to be more mindful of moving forward in order to see how much merit there is for me. I believe that when I'm going well and in a good groove with my eating, I'm eating a lot of foods I like, but very little that I *really* like, if that makes sense. Maybe that's my version of moderation.

    I also wonder more generally...
    I frequently see people on the boards say they eat whatever they want as long as the numbers (cals and/or macros) work out, and that if they want xyz food, they find a way to fit it in. I get that, I've been able to do that in the past at times, too, so I'm not arguing that. However, I do wonder if any of those same people have chosen to avoid/significantly restrict certain foods because of what could be a slippery slope.

    Yes, it's kind of semantics, but word choice can reflect attitude... and context and nuance can be important.

    I consider myself one of those people that says I can eat whatever I want as long as it fits macros/calories and that I make whatever I want to eat fit these calories/macros. When I make that statement though I do always feel I should note that what I "want to eat" about 80% of the time is meats, veggies, fruits etc.

    There are however a few select foods that I do significantly still restrict due to the slippery slope you mentioned. Peanut butter is one of these foods for me. Though I still consume it and make it fit into calories/macros I never keep it in the house. For whatever reason I can have peanut butter outside of my home and consume a perfectly reasonable portion and feel satisfied. The second I keep it in the house I could eat half a jar in a sitting before stopping. I find this phenomenon particularly interesting because the few foods I seem to have trouble moderating aren't even my "favorite" foods or foods that I initially crave to eat, they just seem to be foods I have trouble stopping eating once i've started. I've always attributed it to a greater dopamine response to those foods but I've always wondered if there was another reason.
  • cmriverside
    cmriverside Posts: 34,449 Member
    I have the same problem with peanut butter, and I've read the same thing over and over on this site - so it is something about peanut butter.
  • showjack70
    showjack70 Posts: 57 Member
    I appreciate this discussion. I have struggled with borderline binge eating, eating until I am stuffed, etc. most of my life. I have made progress but still laps and am still uncovering all the reasons for the behavior.

    At the very least, I have identified triggers that contribute to a binge and habits that mitigate stuffing myself. Look forward to reading more comments.
  • cmriverside
    cmriverside Posts: 34,449 Member
    edited September 2018
    psychod787 wrote: »
    I have the same problem with peanut butter, and I've read the same thing over and over on this site - so it is something about peanut butter.

    Sugar, fat, and salt! Lol it's soo creamy good...

    No sugar or salt in the peanut butter I buy. Straight-up peanuts only. I watch it being ground.

    There can be a connection to needing fats, but that's not my issue either. I am always over on fats - without the peanut butter binge.

    I don't want to drag this thread off-topic, but peanut butter (or even just peanuts) is a problem for me as a food. Deliciousness might be it, but I don't binge on yogurt and it's creamy fatty delicious, too.

    I think it's psychological (full circle!) and just a throwback to my childhood as a comfort food.
  • Keladelphia
    Keladelphia Posts: 820 Member
    psychod787 wrote: »
    I have the same problem with peanut butter, and I've read the same thing over and over on this site - so it is something about peanut butter.

    Sugar, fat, and salt! Lol it's soo creamy good...

    No sugar or salt in the peanut butter I buy. Straight-up peanuts only. I watch it being ground.

    There can be a connection to needing fats, but that's not my issue either. I am always over on fats - without the peanut butter binge.

    I don't want to drag this thread off-topic, but peanut butter (or even just peanuts) is a problem for me as a food. Deliciousness might be it, but I don't binge on yogurt and it's creamy fatty delicious, too.

    I think it's psychological (full circle!) and just a throwback to my childhood as a comfort food.

    It happens to me whether its All Natural saltless PB (just peanuts) or some kind like Skippy with additives. I also eat a high fat diet (40% fat) so I don't think its a fat issue either. I didn't even really eat it as a kid either which makes it even more strange to me.

    Whyyyyyy PB whyyyyyy???? :'( Okay back on topic.......
  • sophia162
    sophia162 Posts: 115 Member
    edited September 2018
    I'm not going to read this whole thread, so I don't know if anyone already said this...

    But I don't think there are as many emotional reasons as people seem to think.

    Speaking for myself at least, I eat till stuffed because I was blessed/cursed/born-with a BIG 'OLE APPETITE.

    Since I was a happy, normal, loved little child. I always finished my plate (I would lick it clean for crying out loud), and if my little brother wasn't finishing his portion, I would have it ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

    ...until I noticed this wasn't cute, lol, then I tried to avoid it. But I could still do it, you know? I just chose not too to avoid da looks.

    I just have an unfortunately big appetite. It's a trait. Nothing led me to this.

    And throughout this journey, I occasionally fall back and binge my *kitten* off... and I feel like being an alcoholic or drug addict must be very similar :(. The way they react to and handle those substances differs from their peers.

    So, in a way, I feel lucky that at least the thing that I lose control of is food and not more harmful stuff... but I also feel unlucky, because the people that surround me weren't born with this messed up love of eating.

    Well, anyway, that's me. I'm sure others do have emotional triggers that cause their overeating.
  • jjpptt2
    jjpptt2 Posts: 5,650 Member
    jjpptt2 wrote: »
    kshama2001 wrote: »
    Maybe you are eating hyperpalatable foods?

    They literally figured out that really sweet foods will taste too sweet after a few bites, and really salty items taste too salty after a short while.

    So they found a point where the fat, salt and sugar ratio was just so that you keep eating them past your satiation point (think potato chips and cookies), what food scientists call the "bliss point." That's why you have sugar and salt in things you wouldn't think would be needed in either (salt in candy, sugar in tomato sauce).

    If you notice you only gorge on certain TYPES of foods, that might be the issue.


    For me, an example is potatoes. I can eat one baked potato and not want any more. I don't need to use portion control on baked potatoes. But I've had to intentionally portion control chips and fries, until I naturally eat less of these than before.

    Worse is if I homecook scallopped potatoes (no cream, just thin sliced stewed potatoes and seasonings), it's like a bottomless appetite for it. I can go three potatoes and still want more. My scallopped potatoes recipe has a bliss point that allows me to eat far larger quanties than I would otherwise. Portion control doesn't "work." I just end up eating as much as is available.

    Best wishes on figuring out the source of your eating past fullness and overcoming it!

    Is that from "Salt, Sugar, Fat"? Fascinating book!

    When I eat 400-500 calories of chicken, broccoli, and potato, or Thai Beef salad, I am full, but not overstuffed, and have no urge to eat more.

    When I have hyper-palatable foods like pizza, I want to eat and eat and eat. It's a real challenge to not. Having a large salad with pizza helps.
    I'm using the term hyper-palatable foods less and less, but I do have the idea in the back of my head that food should taste good, but not too good - it helps. I have found that I need to work for my food, I want to be hungry enough to bother with preparation and chewing. My appetite is actually a good guide - I know that when I'm ready for just about any food, I'm hungry, whereas not really in mood for anything but candy or chips, but strongly so, I'm not hungry, I just want "something"; and as I am well nourished and warm and safe, figuring out what that "something" is, is hard. Most days I eat normal, ordinary foods for most or all meals. I deliberately reserve treat foods for special occasions, which doesn't have to be more special than "Saturday" - finding the balance here is so important and quite difficult; when I grew up, treats were "bad", according to my mother, who never said so explicitly, but implied that treats would ruin my health, and absolute abstaining was commendable.

    This continues to stick with me, and is something I need to be more mindful of moving forward in order to see how much merit there is for me. I believe that when I'm going well and in a good groove with my eating, I'm eating a lot of foods I like, but very little that I *really* like, if that makes sense. Maybe that's my version of moderation.

    I also wonder more generally...
    I frequently see people on the boards say they eat whatever they want as long as the numbers (cals and/or macros) work out, and that if they want xyz food, they find a way to fit it in. I get that, I've been able to do that in the past at times, too, so I'm not arguing that. However, I do wonder if any of those same people have chosen to avoid/significantly restrict certain foods because of what could be a slippery slope.

    Yes, it's kind of semantics, but word choice can reflect attitude... and context and nuance can be important.

    I consider myself one of those people that says I can eat whatever I want as long as it fits macros/calories and that I make whatever I want to eat fit these calories/macros. When I make that statement though I do always feel I should note that what I "want to eat" about 80% of the time is meats, veggies, fruits etc.

    There are however a few select foods that I do significantly still restrict due to the slippery slope you mentioned. Peanut butter is one of these foods for me. Though I still consume it and make it fit into calories/macros I never keep it in the house. For whatever reason I can have peanut butter outside of my home and consume a perfectly reasonable portion and feel satisfied. The second I keep it in the house I could eat half a jar in a sitting before stopping. I find this phenomenon particularly interesting because the few foods I seem to have trouble moderating aren't even my "favorite" foods or foods that I initially crave to eat, they just seem to be foods I have trouble stopping eating once i've started. I've always attributed it to a greater dopamine response to those foods but I've always wondered if there was another reason.

    Thank you for posting that... I appreciate the perspective.
  • psychod787
    psychod787 Posts: 4,099 Member
    There is 2 things for me funions and code red mt dew.. I have cut both. I can eat crispy onions and some cherry soda, but combine the two above... non-stop eat still stuffed.
  • CSARdiver
    CSARdiver Posts: 6,252 Member
    Crunchy/salty is my deliciousness trigger. Especially potato chips. Not satiating at all and I could down a bag in one sitting, so my caution radar goes off whenever I'm eating them. I have to portion them out and watch my behavior closely.
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