Welcome to Debate Club! Please be aware that this is a space for respectful debate, and that your ideas will be challenged here. Please remember to critique the argument, not the author.
Natural vs "other"
stewarm01
Posts: 331 Member
I'm trying to lose 90 lbs naturally via exercise and healthier eating. On a good start but as we know it's very, very hard.
How do you feel about people who I say "cheat" with diet pills and the various surgeries?
I personally don't really have the same respect for them vs people who make the real sacrifices. Just my opinion.
How do you feel about people who I say "cheat" with diet pills and the various surgeries?
I personally don't really have the same respect for them vs people who make the real sacrifices. Just my opinion.
25
Replies
-
I don't care what people do or how they do it...and if you think people who go through weight loss surgery don't make sacrifices, then you know very little.21
-
what's the difference between naturally and exercise/healthy eating2
-
Everybody who have ever lost weight, has done so by being in a sustained calorie deficit (eaten less, moved more) over time. And that is something they have done, not just tried to do.
When you tell yourself a task is going to be hard, it will be hard.
Envy is the thief of joy.
Eyes on your own plate.21 -
I think for most people diet pills will not be helpful in the long run.
WLS has its place for those who are significantly obese and make an informed decision to use that tool
I don't have any difference in levels of respect though, nor do I consider it cheating.
Everyone do what works for them - it isn't a competition where you earn more respect by making 'real sacrifices'
Your post sounds judgey and self righteous to me. I personally don't have much respect for judgemental self righteous types. Just my opinion.19 -
Anyone who loses weight and figures out a sustainable way to maintain it has done something hard. As someone who has done it/is doing it, I respect the heck out of someone accomplishing it even if they chose some different tools than the ones I did.
11 -
I really don't care how others do things that have no affect on me and have never even considered "respect" (or lack thereof) coming into play as far as my thoughts on people who use diet pills or surgery. I have enough actual real life stuff to think about without gumming my brain up with thoughts on other people's diet methods.8
-
Interesting responses, maybe I'm just frustrated, tired, hungry, and all that.
Maybe the easier way may have been better.7 -
There's no objective easy to it. You find what works best for you and do it that way.3
-
Interesting responses, maybe I'm just frustrated, tired, hungry, and all that.
Maybe the easier way may have been better.
You're missing the point. There is no easy way. Diet pills are largely ineffective, so the person still has to do all of the work. Surgery alters the way the body functions. Person still has to do the work plus (depending on the surgery), has to continue ensuring they are getting sufficient nutrition and may be a higher risks for other complications long-term, so still has to do the work. Regardless of the approach, the person needs to make the changes, and needs to follow through for the rest of their life, or face regain.
THERE IS NO EASY WAY.25 -
There's a difference between (1) taking a moral stance that diet pills and surgeries are "cheating" and those who choose those approaches don't deserve "respect" and (2) having concerns about the health implications of diet pills and surgeries and the sustainability of such methods throughout long-term weight loss and maintenance. I can choose not to use diet pills and surgeries and even advise others to consider health and long-term sustainability implications of using them without making it a matter of which approach is more virtuous and deserving of respect.11
-
nutmegoreo wrote: »Interesting responses, maybe I'm just frustrated, tired, hungry, and all that.
Maybe the easier way may have been better.
You're missing the point. There is no easy way. Diet pills are largely ineffective, so the person still has to do all of the work. Surgery alters the way the body functions. Person still has to do the work plus (depending on the surgery), has to continue ensuring they are getting sufficient nutrition and may be a higher risks for other complications long-term, so still has to do the work. Regardless of the approach, the person needs to make the changes, and needs to follow through for the rest of their life, or face regain.
THERE IS NO EASY WAY.
^ this.2 -
I'm trying to lose 90 lbs naturally via exercise and healthier eating. On a good start but as we know it's very, very hard.
How do you feel about people who I say "cheat" with diet pills and the various surgeries?
I personally don't really have the same respect for them vs people who make the real sacrifices. Just my opinion.
I don't call people cheaters if they lost weight differently than me. I have to do things my way. I don't know if I respect people more if they lose weight a particular way. I do respect people less if they promote fad diets,unsafe or unhealthy weight loss methods.
I feel concerned for people who use diet pills. That doesn't seem a sustainable path.
Surgery for weight loss seems to me to be the riskier and harder path than just counting calories alone.
There is not a magic way to lose weight though. It is all some kind of sacrafice.4 -
Why would you base your respect for someone on what they weigh, or how they lose/gain it?13
-
I'm trying to lose 90 lbs naturally via exercise and healthier eating. On a good start but as we know it's very, very hard.
How do you feel about people who I say "cheat" with diet pills and the various surgeries?
I personally don't really have the same respect for them vs people who make the real sacrifices. Just my opinion.
I honestly don't care one way or the other. Some people need to get their stuff under control, stat, so I don't judge them at all. I personally prefer to not take any extras because I don't want to deal with what they come with. The pain they go through, the tiny portions of food they eat, the ginormous amount of vitamins they have to take and the skin removal surgery all seem like enormous amount of work. It doesn't seem lazy to me.
Remember PhenPhen? Someone I know lost a lot of weight doing that, and I refused to partake. Later it was pulled off the market because people were dying from it. I stay way from preworkout, BCAAs and all that other stuff because of what happened with PhenPhen. People I train with take these (and possibly steroids on top of it), but I don't judge them for it either. They've weighed the risk and reward and made a decision for themselves. They still have to work hard on their workouts, so I don't think of it as being lazy.
I also know someone who had weight loss surgery. She had many complications and it got so bad she was making preparations for her passing. She pulled through, thank God.
But people who lose weight that fast end up with a lot of loose skin, throwing up, leaking butt, vitamin deficiencies, don't have any room for feasting during the holidays, all that and more side effects, plus scars.
Steroids, for women, make their faces and vaginas look manly, and I'm frankly too vain for that (not vain enough to not get fat in the first place, but I digress). For men, it gives them pimples, premature aging, balding, erectile disfunction, infertility, etc., basically all the things men are afraid of.
So, honestly, I don't think pills and surgeries are the "easy way" out of anything. They force people to lose weight, but they seem quite violent on the system.
To me, eating a healthy, delicious diet and exercising is a much easier and more satisfying way of losing weight, with better results, looks wise. But it is a LOT slower, and takes a lot of consistent effort, which is the difficult part.
12 -
I'm trying to lose 90 lbs naturally via exercise and healthier eating. On a good start but as we know it's very, very hard.
How do you feel about people who I say "cheat" with diet pills and the various surgeries?
I personally don't really have the same respect for them vs people who make the real sacrifices. Just my opinion.
And also, you have 90lbs to lose. Do you realize that a lot of people do not have the same respect they have for someone who only has 5lbs to lose, because people who didn't gain weight in the first place were making the real sacrifices to keep their weight in check?
Not me, but some people.
12 -
My biggest issue with diet pills is that they tend not to work, and the ones that do tend to be really, really bad for you. The false advertising and BSing also bothers me. That's all. If they actually worked, didn't lie and BS a bunch, and weren't terrible for you I'd be all over that ish.0
-
People who "cheat" with diet pills do make "real sacrifices". They sacrifice their money for scam products which do absolutely nothing to help them lose weight.
As for weight loss surgery, there's already a very long thread here about it (one of several such discussions which have taken place in the Debate forum): https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10677528/honest-opinions-on-weight-loss-surgery/p1
tl;dr - if you think weight loss surgery is "cheating" or taking the "easy way", maybe you should go talk to a few people who've actually had the surgery. It's nowhere near as "easy" as you apparently think it is.7 -
Thanks everyone for the insight and different perspectives.
I was just frustrated like I said before from less food intake and 2 hours of exercise 6 days week. 1 hour each session 12 hours apart.
To each their own.2 -
Thanks everyone for the insight and different perspectives.
I was just frustrated like I said before from less food intake and 2 hours of exercise 6 days week. 1 hour each session 12 hours apart.
To each their own.
Why are you exercising so much? Are you training for a specific event?3 -
Janejellyroll,
I recently had to retire early and I have nothing to do right now. Decided to finally get into better shape. I'm only doing cardio right now and going to add strength training very soon. It's been 11 weeks now.0 -
Janejellyroll,
I recently had to retire early and I have nothing to do right now. Decided to finally get into better shape. I'm only doing cardio right now and going to add strength training very soon. It's been 11 weeks now.
I just asked because you said your routine was part of your frustration. It might be worth dialing back the exercise (2 hours a day is a LOT) to find something that feels more comfortable, sustainable, and less frustrating. You don't need two hours a day to get into better shape.7 -
How do I feel about people who try to lose weight with diet pills or weight loss surgery?I'm trying to lose 90 lbs naturally via exercise and healthier eating. On a good start but as we know it's very, very hard.
How do you feel about people who I say "cheat" with diet pills and the various surgeries?
I personally don't really have the same respect for them vs people who make the real sacrifices. Just my opinion.
Usually sympathetic for the fruitless and sometimes irreparable damage done to their health and their pocketbooks, with a hidden touch of "there but for the grace of good sense and patience go I."
4 -
My mom was offered weight loss surgery 10 years ago. Maybe if she would have had it done she wouldn't be in her 50's in a nursing home dying of heart failure because of her weight. What ever way somebody chooses to try to lose weight and become healthier should be applauded not looked down upon.19
-
janejellyroll wrote: »Janejellyroll,
I recently had to retire early and I have nothing to do right now. Decided to finally get into better shape. I'm only doing cardio right now and going to add strength training very soon. It's been 11 weeks now.
I just asked because you said your routine was part of your frustration. It might be worth dialing back the exercise (2 hours a day is a LOT) to find something that feels more comfortable, sustainable, and less frustrating. You don't need two hours a day to get into better shape.
This^^ Especially since your frustration is making you judge people who don't do it how you have chosen to as somewhat lacking in commitment, drive or motivation.
I suspect that unless you dial things back a bit and gain some perspective, you will burn out sooner rather than later.
Have too much time on your hands? There are plenty of places that could definitely use some volunteer help.6 -
Janejellyroll,
I recently had to retire early and I have nothing to do right now. Decided to finally get into better shape. I'm only doing cardio right now and going to add strength training very soon. It's been 11 weeks now.
So, you're making weight loss and health improvement harder than it needs to be (and possibly less effective besides - we'll see), then describing the process as "very, very hard". OK.
But why?
Fitness works best if you find activities you personally enjoy, then gradually increase duration and intensity, while allowing for adequate recovery time between workouts (which allows the body to rebuild in a stronger way rather than being constantly and repeatedly torn down). Done in this way, fitness can be "fun and rewarding" rather than "very, very hard".
When I lost weight ("naturally", I guess - no pills or surgeries), I did it by setting a moderate calorie deficit I could adhere to, and sticking to it the overwhelming majority of days for many months, eating foods I personally found delicious that gave me good overall nutrition, plus a few treats when they fit in. I relaxed the rules and indulged on my 60th birthday, and a few holidays and special events along the way, because life - especially retired life - should be fun.
Not only was that successful (still at a healthy weight 2+ years later), but it was not "very, very hard"; in fact, it was so straightforward and achievable that I could've kicked myself for not doing it decades earlier.
It's nice that you're moving forward without ineffective, expensive, and possibly dangerous pills; and it's good that you're not in a position that makes potentially dangerous, difficult and life-altering surgery your best option. Whew! (You dodged some bullets.)
But if the route you're on is "very, very difficult", it might be time for some reflection about whether you're on the best possible route, unless unpleasant experiences are somehow psychologically rewarding. I'm sure that's not it, though, that wouldn't make sense.
P.S. I retired at 51, on purpose. There are lots of fun things to do in retirement, even with only a modest income. Being active and cooking/eating the right amount of tasty, nutritious food are only 2 of them.
Best wishes for a fulfilling retirement!
P.P.S. Just playing the odds, I'd suggest you start strength training sooner, if you intend to do it. I've seen a bunch of people around here wish they'd started sooner, and never saw anyone who wished they'd waited. Since your exercise schedule sounds overfull already for 11 weeks in, it should be fine to drop your current volume to allow for strength training with proper recovery.
P.P.P.S. Welcome to the debate forum.
14 -
I've lost weight with medicine and always gained it back and more. This time I am consciously changing me and my habits and my emotional connections to food. The weight is coming off and staying off. I am doing things like better food choices, controlling portion sizes, and walking an hour each day10
-
Well I sincerely hope you find your pace that allows you to be less crabby and still lose weight.
I vividly remember my own anger that an obviously intelligent and hard working person like myself still managed to get morbidly obese.
Since in your opinion I cheated, we won’t be friends. But I still wish you all success.13 -
Evelyn_Gorfram wrote: »
How do I feel about people who try to lose weight with diet pills or weight loss surgery?I'm trying to lose 90 lbs naturally via exercise and healthier eating. On a good start but as we know it's very, very hard.
How do you feel about people who I say "cheat" with diet pills and the various surgeries?
I personally don't really have the same respect for them vs people who make the real sacrifices. Just my opinion.
Usually sympathetic for the fruitless and sometimes irreparable damage done to their health and their pocketbooks, with a hidden touch of "there but for the grace of good sense and patience go I."
That patience thing is so hard.5 -
Isn't there some famous saint who is supposed to have said:IHaveMyActTogether wrote: »Evelyn_Gorfram wrote: »
How do I feel about people who try to lose weight with diet pills or weight loss surgery?I'm trying to lose 90 lbs naturally via exercise and healthier eating. On a good start but as we know it's very, very hard.
How do you feel about people who I say "cheat" with diet pills and the various surgeries?
I personally don't really have the same respect for them vs people who make the real sacrifices. Just my opinion.
Usually sympathetic for the fruitless and sometimes irreparable damage done to their health and their pocketbooks, with a hidden touch of "there but for the grace of good sense and patience go I."
That patience thing is so hard.
"Lord, grant me patience, and I want it right now!"?
(I think he's not the same as the saint who is supposed to have said: "Lord, grant me chastity; but, please - not yet.")
4 -
Evelyn_Gorfram wrote: »
Isn't there some famous saint who is supposed to have said:IHaveMyActTogether wrote: »Evelyn_Gorfram wrote: »
How do I feel about people who try to lose weight with diet pills or weight loss surgery?I'm trying to lose 90 lbs naturally via exercise and healthier eating. On a good start but as we know it's very, very hard.
How do you feel about people who I say "cheat" with diet pills and the various surgeries?
I personally don't really have the same respect for them vs people who make the real sacrifices. Just my opinion.
Usually sympathetic for the fruitless and sometimes irreparable damage done to their health and their pocketbooks, with a hidden touch of "there but for the grace of good sense and patience go I."
That patience thing is so hard.
"Lord, grant me patience, and I want it right now!"?
(I think he's not the same as the saint who is supposed to have said: "Lord, grant me chastity; but, please - not yet.")
Me.😛
1
This discussion has been closed.
Categories
- All Categories
- 1.4M Health, Wellness and Goals
- 393.6K Introduce Yourself
- 43.8K Getting Started
- 260.3K Health and Weight Loss
- 175.9K Food and Nutrition
- 47.5K Recipes
- 232.5K Fitness and Exercise
- 431 Sleep, Mindfulness and Overall Wellness
- 6.5K Goal: Maintaining Weight
- 8.6K Goal: Gaining Weight and Body Building
- 153K Motivation and Support
- 8K Challenges
- 1.3K Debate Club
- 96.3K Chit-Chat
- 2.5K Fun and Games
- 3.8K MyFitnessPal Information
- 24 News and Announcements
- 1.1K Feature Suggestions and Ideas
- 2.6K MyFitnessPal Tech Support Questions