Lose weight with cardio
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I don't know what kind of world you guys are in but I probably exercised 15 hours this week and I know I could put on weight if I tried. I can eat an entire jar of PB with a spoon and last I checked that's nearly a marathon's worth of calories. Yeah, it's much harder, I'll give you that. When I lost my weight six years ago, I knew a guy online that was started running around when I did and he lost around the same weight I did - 60/70 lbs. He's now an ultramarathoner. He runs around 150 miles a week but he's gained nearly the entire 60/70 lbs back. You can exercise insane amounts and still eat enough to outdo the calories burned.5
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MikePfirrman wrote: »I don't know what kind of world you guys are in but I probably exercised 15 hours this week and I know I could put on weight if I tried. I can eat an entire jar of PB with a spoon and last I checked that's nearly a marathon's worth of calories. Yeah, it's much harder, I'll give you that. When I lost my weight six years ago, I knew a guy online that was started running around when I did and he lost around the same weight I did - 60/70 lbs. He's now an ultramarathoner. He runs around 150 miles a week but he's gained nearly the entire 60/70 lbs back. You can exercise insane amounts and still eat enough to outdo the calories burned.
The same world as you Mike.
Just because you could or would eat an entire jar of PB doesn't mean others can or would.
My point is it is possible for some to exercise at a level where they can't keep up their calorie intake, just as it's possible for some others to exercise an extreme amount and still over-eat like your online buddy.
I've felt absolutely stuffed to bursting point with a 5000 cal intake and still had a 1500 deficit on rare occasions.
On the other hand some TdF riders are eating 6500 a day for 3 weeks and maintaining their weight with diligent effort.
It's the absolutism I'm disagreeing with.
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MikePfirrman wrote: »I don't know what kind of world you guys are in but I probably exercised 15 hours this week and I know I could put on weight if I tried. I can eat an entire jar of PB with a spoon and last I checked that's nearly a marathon's worth of calories. Yeah, it's much harder, I'll give you that. When I lost my weight six years ago, I knew a guy online that was started running around when I did and he lost around the same weight I did - 60/70 lbs. He's now an ultramarathoner. He runs around 150 miles a week but he's gained nearly the entire 60/70 lbs back. You can exercise insane amounts and still eat enough to outdo the calories burned.
So when people say "nobody can outrun their fork," what they really mean is "I knew this one guy who made bad choices."
That's fine, but let's please stop pretending that everybody has to make bad choices.
I mean, sometimes people die from being hit by a car, but we don't classify cars as weapons.7 -
Man, I won't try to speak for anyone else on this "max out" idea, but it would be dead easy for me to eat 5000 calories every single day, and not at all practical to get the daily 3000 calories or so over NEAT to offset it. YMMV, fer shure.7
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Just disagreeing with the notion that some have reached a level of training that it's nearly impossible to gain weight.5
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MikePfirrman wrote: »I don't know what kind of world you guys are in but I probably exercised 15 hours this week and I know I could put on weight if I tried. I can eat an entire jar of PB with a spoon and last I checked that's nearly a marathon's worth of calories. Yeah, it's much harder, I'll give you that. When I lost my weight six years ago, I knew a guy online that was started running around when I did and he lost around the same weight I did - 60/70 lbs. He's now an ultramarathoner. He runs around 150 miles a week but he's gained nearly the entire 60/70 lbs back. You can exercise insane amounts and still eat enough to outdo the calories burned.
I think the thing is that some of us don't actually want to eat an entire jar of PB. That's a bit of a cop-out becasue I don't actually like PB but I also wouldn't want to eat an entire jar of Justin's chocolate hazelnut butter. Yesterday I burned around ~1,050 calories after riding for a little over two hours so I could work on getting the last of the races and group rides in for the Zwift Academy (no, lets not pretend I'm even close to in the running for a pro contract) while avoiding the Innsbruck course. I ended up with around 800 calories left and that was after eating an ice cream sandwich that was 470 calories. Said ice cream sandwich is fewer calories than I burned on the Zwift group ride I finished 25 min ago.
When push comes to shove, I don't typically eat a lot of calorie dense foods unless I'm cooking with coconut milk, I've baked something or have bought something that's baked (like a loaf of bread, a pastry, or a slice of cake). That is why if I'm cycling on a regular basis, it's fairly reliable that I'll lose weight without a whole lot of effort.5 -
MikePfirrman wrote: »Just disagreeing with the notion that some have reached a level of training that it's nearly impossible to gain weight.
Would I be right in guessing you don't do endurance cardio?7 -
MikePfirrman wrote: »Just disagreeing with the notion that some have reached a level of training that it's nearly impossible to gain weight.
Some people here or some people generally? One of the major issues for the chefs of cycling teams that ride at grand tours is making food palatable enough that riders will actually want to eat it. It's not because they cook bad food, it's because the riders have to consume massive amounts of calories and they get tired of eating. There's an interesting documentary on Amazon Prime looking at this from the chef's perspective. And no - it's not a bunch of pseudoscience and BS.5 -
MikePfirrman wrote: »Just disagreeing with the notion that some have reached a level of training that it's nearly impossible to gain weight.
I don't think anybody is saying you can exercise so much it's impossible to lose weight.
I'm saying for a person whose goal it is to lose weight, and who has basic common sense, exercise can play a substantial roller in the process, given enough fitness. That's absolutely true, you can tell from math and from many people's experience.3 -
Man, I won't try to speak for anyone else on this "max out" idea, but it would be dead easy for me to eat 5000 calories every single day, and not at all practical to get the daily 3000 calories or so over NEAT to offset it. YMMV, fer shure.
I could eat 5,000 calories in a day, I think. But there's no way I could do it more than a few days in a row.4 -
Hi, Im just starting my weightloss and fitness journey. I want to lose body fat. Is it a good strategy to start by doing zumba for an hour ,3 days a week. Keeping my diet clean?
You lose weight by establishing a caloric deficit over time. "Clean" has nothing to do with it.
Activity depends on what you are used to. Are you currently working out 60 mins 3 days/week?
Whatever you do, move slowly and deliberately in this. Don't start something you're not going to do for years/decades. Small changes over time yield dramatic results.5 -
NorthCascades wrote: »Man, I won't try to speak for anyone else on this "max out" idea, but it would be dead easy for me to eat 5000 calories every single day, and not at all practical to get the daily 3000 calories or so over NEAT to offset it. YMMV, fer shure.
I could eat 5,000 calories in a day, I think. But there's no way I could do it more than a few days in a row.
Have done it for 2-3 days in a row relatively recently, more than once, post-weight-loss. It would've been easy to keep going for more days - indefinitely, I'd guess: The only thing that stops me is having a brain (sort of). That I can do this, and even kind of want to (moderated only by prudence and concern for future self) is one of my biggest problems in maintenance. Not classic binges, either: Variety, and not just treat foods or junk food. No way I could sustain the compensating exercise level just from a practical time-span standpoint, even ignoring fitness/endurance.
Apparently this is not a universal. That some of us (at least me) are like this could be behind the PP about max calorie intake inevitably out-weighing (heh) max exercise:CarvedTones wrote: »NorthCascades wrote: »CarvedTones wrote: »NorthCascades wrote: »Here's how to lose weight with cardio:
Step 1: Be very fit
Step 2: Maintain your fitness with a high training volume.
For example, if you're a cyclist, have an FTP over 200 watts, such that 140w which is 500 calories per hour, is an easy ride. Ride 12 hours per week. Or, if you're a runner, be fit enough to run 12 hours per week at a good pace.
Unfortunately, due to the universe having a sense of humor, this isn't really available to the people who could benefit from it the most. So it winds up mostly being about how much you eat.
Even if you ride or run 12 hours a week, you can't outrun your fork.
That kinda depends what you put on your fork, wouldn't you say...?
Yes, but if you max out exercise and eating, eating will "win".3 -
NorthCascades wrote: »Man, I won't try to speak for anyone else on this "max out" idea, but it would be dead easy for me to eat 5000 calories every single day, and not at all practical to get the daily 3000 calories or so over NEAT to offset it. YMMV, fer shure.
I could eat 5,000 calories in a day, I think. But there's no way I could do it more than a few days in a row.
Have done it for 2-3 days in a row relatively recently, more than once, post-weight-loss. It would've been easy to keep going for more days - indefinitely, I'd guess: The only thing that stops me is having a brain (sort of). That I can do this, and even kind of want to (moderated only by prudence and concern for future self) is one of my biggest problems in maintenance. Not classic binges, either: Variety, and not just treat foods or junk food. No way I could sustain the compensating exercise level just from a practical time-span standpoint, even ignoring fitness/endurance.
Apparently this is not a universal. That some of us (at least me) are like this could be behind the PP about max calorie intake inevitably out-weighing (heh) max exercise:CarvedTones wrote: »NorthCascades wrote: »CarvedTones wrote: »NorthCascades wrote: »Here's how to lose weight with cardio:
Step 1: Be very fit
Step 2: Maintain your fitness with a high training volume.
For example, if you're a cyclist, have an FTP over 200 watts, such that 140w which is 500 calories per hour, is an easy ride. Ride 12 hours per week. Or, if you're a runner, be fit enough to run 12 hours per week at a good pace.
Unfortunately, due to the universe having a sense of humor, this isn't really available to the people who could benefit from it the most. So it winds up mostly being about how much you eat.
Even if you ride or run 12 hours a week, you can't outrun your fork.
That kinda depends what you put on your fork, wouldn't you say...?
Yes, but if you max out exercise and eating, eating will "win".
See I feel I wouldn't be able to easily eat 5k calories a day without eating a lot of bread (tasty, I just don't do it often) or pastries/cake/candy/caramel corn. Candy and caramel corn would be the easiest ways honestly. If I was eating out for most of my meals it'd be a bit easier as fried foods would likely come into play. That said, that isn't sustainable on a financial level and I enjoy cooking most of the time.3 -
MikePfirrman wrote: »Just disagreeing with the notion that some have reached a level of training that it's nearly impossible to gain weight.
Would I be right in guessing you don't do endurance cardio?
And you would be wrong. I train 7 hours a week rowing (and more on top of that), many times burning over 1000 an hour. I train with guys that do way more than me and are still, in some cases, overweight. Like I said, I just disagree. I've known many fat runners that run over 75 MPW. I also know guys that do a marathon a week (in one sitting) on the erg (indoor rower) at paces I can only imagine that are heavy. Just seems like a notion to say, "I do so much cardio", as my Brit rowing friends would say, "willy wagging".
I'm not even saying that I fit into this category, just find the whole notion of the idea of something to the extent of only select fitness people can outreach gaining weight by training. There is a limit to training after a while and, while I certainly don't eat like it anymore (I don't eat dairy/gluten, which eliminates nearly 90% of the junk), there was a time in my life I could easily have put down 5K to 6K calories in a day. Many obese people still do that daily. That's how I got to be 240/250 lbs years ago, though I've been in maintenance 6 years now.
I just think it's misleading saying that it's hard at a certain point gaining weight do to exercise. I know a lot of cardio addicts that are heavy.2 -
MikePfirrman wrote: »MikePfirrman wrote: »Just disagreeing with the notion that some have reached a level of training that it's nearly impossible to gain weight.
Would I be right in guessing you don't do endurance cardio?
And you would be wrong. I train 7 hours a week rowing (and more on top of that), many times burning over 1000 an hour. I train with guys that do way more than me and are still, in some cases, overweight. Like I said, I just disagree. I've known many fat runners that run over 75 MPW. I also know guys that do a marathon a week (in one sitting) on the erg (indoor rower) at paces I can only imagine that are heavy. Just seems like a notion to say, "I do so much cardio", as my Brit rowing friends would say, "willy wagging".
I'm not even saying that I fit into this category, just find the whole notion of the idea of something to the extent of only select fitness people can outreach gaining weight by training. There is a limit to training after a while and, while I certainly don't eat like it anymore (I don't eat dairy/gluten, which eliminates nearly 90% of the junk), there was a time in my life I could easily have put down 5K to 6K calories in a day. Many obese people still do that daily. That's how I got to be 240/250 lbs years ago, though I've been in maintenance 6 years now.
I just think it's misleading saying that it's hard at a certain point gaining weight do to exercise. I know a lot of cardio addicts that are heavy.
The thing is, I probably know as many people who aren't overweight and do endurance sports and/or commute by bike as you do people who are overweight and do endurance sports. One of the points that I've been making is that there are people whose typical diet consists primarily of foods (and quantities of foods) that make losing or maintaining weight simple if they're burning a lot of calories throughout the week. All of the people I know who fit in that category have jobs/are students and thus aren't in a position where they are spending an inordinate amount of time exercising.4 -
Ok so what I got from all this is that an entire jar of peanut butter mixed with some of that chocolate hazelnut butter, sounds like a delicious way to start a day. Lol.5
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Wow - I really didn't think the saying I parroted was so controversial. It is something that is usually said as a caution to people like the OP who seem to be starting on a weight loss journey and expect cardio to be a big part of it from the start. I don't do "endurance cardio" but I suspect I have burned above average calories during the summer. I often paddle my SUP for 3 or 4 hours with few, if any, stops and burn well over 1000 calories. But that is once or twice a week and it's less often as the days grow shorter and then once temps drop, even less frequent. Anyway, I could easily outpace that with overeating even when I was doing over 20 miles a week on a really slow board burning ~150 calories a mile (on a better board the burn per mile is significantly lower). I think the average burn by someone who thinks of themselves as fairly active, doing 3 or 4 gym sessions a week, maybe a run or two or whatever, is probably averaging under 500 calories of extra burn a day. Averaging 1000 a day probably puts you int the top 5%, maybe even top 3%, of people.1
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Wow just stumbled on this discussion that seems relevant...
https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10696782/i-ate-everything#latest0 -
Because some people occasionally eat a lot, you should sit on the couch instead of going for a walk?
Weight loss is simple math. Calories in, calories out. More calories out can only help.
Anybody who thinks going for a walk means they can eat 5,000+ calories every day ... does anybody actually think that?4 -
CarvedTones wrote: »I think the average burn by someone who thinks of themselves as fairly active, doing 3 or 4 gym sessions a week, maybe a run or two or whatever, is probably averaging under 500 calories of extra burn a day. Averaging 1000 a day probably puts you int the top 5%, maybe even top 3%, of people.
Given that I'm no where near an elite athlete I highly doubt I'm in the top 3-5% of people in terms of the ability to burn 1000 calories a day (over the span of a few hours). I think it probably shows that I train for a sport in a somewhat organized way and have done so for a while, but I'm not abnormal in that respect - plenty of people do that. Note that I don't typically bike twice a day, but if my schedule allowed for it I would likely be to ride five days a week.
For anyone that cares, my FTP is 180. I last tested it in August and it's likely still around that (I'm planning on doing another FTP test on Tuesday).1
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