Very stupid question.
psychod787
Posts: 4,099 Member
I would like to ask what I think is a stupid question. I was binge eater before I lost my weight. I only knew two feelings with appetite. Full or stuffed. I am still trying to figure out how sated feels. I know it is subjective, but would love to know what other people's experiences are. I believe that I have more in common with this forum than with the general forum, so that's why I posted it here.
Thanks,
D
Thanks,
D
15
Replies
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I had to figure out my Maintenance cals and then split it up into two larger meals. I like the full feeling too.
Two meals plus a small (200-300cal) snack seems to work best for me.
I know intellectually that's enough food. Like I said in the "psych" thread, I will eat my larger meals and then wait for 20 minutes. That's how long it takes to get that message to my brain that I've eaten enough. If I don't eat more (I usually still want to) within that 20 minutes I find I'm fine at the end of that 20 minutes.
It's about knowing over time that I'm getting the right amount of food for my weight - then trusting it.16 -
I don't know, and I try to not worry about it. I just aim to eat what I have portioned out for myself, because I know how much I need. I recognize hungry, and I recognize stuffed. The thing is, that the middle, pleasantly full, doesn't feel like much. Just like lukewarm water doesn't feel like much, but cold water and hot water will give you strong physical sensations. Satiety is an "un-feeling" for me, it feels like nothing. Maybe relaxed. Have you seen "The Hunger Scale"? There are many variations, but basically two types, one that grades physical hunger and one that separates physical and emotional hunger:
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kommodevaran wrote: »I don't know, and I try to not worry about it. I just aim to eat what I have portioned out for myself, because I know how much I need. I recognize hungry, and I recognize stuffed. The thing is, that the middle, pleasantly full, doesn't feel like much. Just like lukewarm water doesn't feel like much, but cold water and hot water will give you strong physical sensations. Satiety is an "un-feeling" for me, it feels like nothing. Maybe relaxed. Have you seen "The Hunger Scale"? There are many variations, but basically two types, one that grades physical hunger and one that separates physical and emotional hunger:
thanks yoda....7 -
And your question helped me a lot too! I have been thinking a lot about it - I have stopped now, but for long periods I have tried to figure out "how does satiety feel?", and disappointed every time the answer seemed within reach, and then fade out. Now it dawned on me: What would you answer if you were asked "how does it feel to not have a headache?"? I bet you couldn't find an answer. And I think satiety is a lot like that. Just not hungry. So your question isn't stupid, it's just absurd.21
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gosh - this is a great thread! Those pictures and the idea of "how does it feel to not have a headache" really resonate with me.6
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Hunger is such a complicated sensation! We evolved to be driven by hunger to overeat whenever possible. It's clear why that's a good strategy for much of human existence. (The prevalence of inexpensive food in developed countries is novel in human history.) So, as far as your phisiology is concerned, when you binge eat, you're doing the right thing. Our only problem is that we can now do it just about whenever we want.
So, your rational mind is fighting with your subconscious drive on this one. You are basically managing the animal within. I find that exercise, regular meals, and rules (strong habits) are the key to success. And, finding things to do that distract you from food really helps.5 -
psychod787 wrote: »I would like to ask what I think is a stupid question. I was binge eater before I lost my weight. I only knew two feelings with appetite. Full or stuffed. I am still trying to figure out how sated feels. I know it is subjective, but would love to know what other people's experiences are. I believe that I have more in common with this forum than with the general forum, so that's why I posted it here.
Thanks,
D
I had to let myself feel hunger. I had to get over the fear of having my tummy rumble and allow myself to feel hunger pangs. I now notice how my stomach feels as I eat. I can feel it filling up, and when I feel adequately full, not uncomfortably full or stuffed, I stop, and don't immediately fixate on what & when my next meal is going to be. I guess that's what satiety is for me.
I also recognise when I don't want to eat any more and when I physically can't. I won't make myself eat just to make up my calories. Of course, there are days when I can't stop eating because I don't feel full even when I'm bursting, but since I began eating differently they're far less common. But my hunger and satiety signals still misfire because I spent decades ignoring them, and it's going to take a while to readjust.14 -
@psychod787
No such thing as a “very stupid question”!!! This is an important one!!
Amazing that your question came at this point in time, as I’m trying to figure this out, too.
I get very unclear hunger & satiety signals, too. The only time I had them was when I was pregnant. I knew when to eat & when to stop - by the half bite. A clear on and off switch. When I was obese, I ate two large meals (can relate to full/stomach hurting(stuffed) signaling.)
I did try once or twice to wait until I got hungry, but I wouldn’t get hungry- I would get very tired/slight headache...
So, as I was losing weight, I set up meals & general meal times & stuck to them during my weight loss. Hardly ever felt hungry. Finished all foods planned for each meal, again never hungry/never full.
But in the past 2-4 weeks, as my BMI has dropped into the 23’s from a high of 34, I’ve been getting more signals from my tummy. Not sure if they are hunger or not. But not comfortable. Like a gnawing. Also a verrry slight headache & fatigue. I still made the same meals, but found after eating 1/3-1/2, I’d have been happy to stop eating. So, I would save the remainder & eat it when I was hungry again 1-3 hours later.
Then I started feeling these signals before bed so I added some nuts.
I still lost weight (3 lbs in 3 weeks, September) Thinking I should slow this down further... I’ve been exercising 72-80 mins daily for 5 months.
This morning I had a new development: I woke up with the same sensation, woke me up & kept me awake. I got some hot tea and 10 g of raw almonds, attempting to wait to regular breakfast time.
So, I’m open to suggestions. Did anyone experience this as you got closer to goal weight? I’m shooting for 150 per doctor BMI 22.5, currently 157-158. 5’8.5” BMI 23.6-7
How do you manage things?
@cmriverside @kommodevaran
From your posts, it sounds like you do what I have been doing: Know what our body needs, and follow that, rather than signals that are elusive??
I’m also looking at my trends in macros/micros for clues!
Thanks- you are all very inspiring to me!
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My hunger cues have never been great my whole adult life - my wants have always been higher than my actual needs. Despite which I've always found maintenance relatively easy, not always at the right weight unfortunately, just in a fairly stable range whatever my weight.
But those hunger signal manifest more in always wanting to snack, I actively dislike the stuffed feeling from a very large meal so that aspect is quite self-regulating luckily. I simply dislike feeling over-full, bloated and sluggish.
I did 5:2 fasting to lose my excess weight and that really did help educate me about true hunger signals (between 2 & 3 on the Hunger Scale above) as opposed to boredom/routine/emotional eating.
It also confirmed that for me that my hunger and satiety isn't about volume as much as taste, give me some Pringles or peanuts and I can always eat, sit me down in front of a large meal and I'll stop when I've had enough.
Had a brief flirtation with 16:8 fasting which overall I didn't like but did show me that breakfast is very optional for me, mostly now I have something very light and save my calorie allowance for later in the day when I'm more hungry or simply enjoy it more.
A big part of successful maintenance for me is enjoying really tasty, high quality food (the correct amount then satisfies my taste buds) but putting conscious thought and control into limiting my snacks to what I need not desire. Know yourself and work to your strengths and control your weaknesses.
PS
The satiety index and satiety research is interesting to look at by the way, especially if you are a volume eater.....
I'm conscious I'm a bit weird or atypical in that how palatable food is doesn't have a consistent impact on me depending on the context of meals or snacks.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7498104
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The hunger scale graphic is a good one. I dislike feeling overly full, so once I get to the point I can tell I'm eating only because it tastes good, I stop. This is usually several bites before I actually feel 'done.'
That's terribly vague, I know
It's all very individual. I'm usually a little hungry an hour or two before my next meal (particularly dinner, which is my largest meal by far). I've discovered it's not the end of the world for me to have a rumbly tummy. Quite the opposite - I tend to enjoy my food more. 11 -
MadisonMolly2017 wrote: »@psychod787
No such thing as a “very stupid question”!!! This is an important one!!
Amazing that your question came at this point in time, as I’m trying to figure this out, too.
I get very unclear hunger & satiety signals, too. The only time I had them was when I was pregnant. I knew when to eat & when to stop - by the half bite. A clear on and off switch. When I was obese, I ate two large meals (can relate to full/stomach hurting(stuffed) signaling.)
I did try once or twice to wait until I got hungry, but I wouldn’t get hungry- I would get very tired/slight headache...
So, as I was losing weight, I set up meals & general meal times & stuck to them during my weight loss. Hardly ever felt hungry. Finished all foods planned for each meal, again never hungry/never full.
But in the past 2-4 weeks, as my BMI has dropped into the 23’s from a high of 34, I’ve been getting more signals from my tummy. Not sure if they are hunger or not. But not comfortable. Like a gnawing. Also a verrry slight headache & fatigue. I still made the same meals, but found after eating 1/3-1/2, I’d have been happy to stop eating. So, I would save the remainder & eat it when I was hungry again 1-3 hours later.
Then I started feeling these signals before bed so I added some nuts.
I still lost weight (3 lbs in 3 weeks, September) Thinking I should slow this down further... I’ve been exercising 72-80 mins daily for 5 months.
This morning I had a new development: I woke up with the same sensation, woke me up & kept me awake. I got some hot tea and 10 g of raw almonds, attempting to wait to regular breakfast time.
So, I’m open to suggestions. Did anyone experience this as you got closer to goal weight? I’m shooting for 150 per doctor BMI 22.5, currently 157-158. 5’8.5” BMI 23.6-7
How do you manage things?
@cmriverside @kommodevaran
From your posts, it sounds like you do what I have been doing: Know what our body needs, and follow that, rather than signals that are elusive??
I’m also looking at my trends in macros/micros for clues!
Thanks- you are all very inspiring to me!
I am currently too lean myself. Sub 10%... by accident and stupidity. When that happened my hunger just went nuts! I understand it.2 -
That chart is a good one.
Years ago I read a book called Thin for Life by Anne Fletcher whose premise is that you can learn to eat to hunger instead of eating just because it's time to eat or to satisfy emotional needs. It taught me a lot. I would note what number on the hunger scale I was feeling when I started eating and when I stopped. I got away from it, but the basic understanding remains, so I do ask myself if I'm really hungry when I want a snack or if I'm just bored or unhappy. I still do some mindless eating (i.e. it's dinner time so I'll eat dinner, even though I'm not hungry) but I don't do a lot of snacking except when I really am hungry. I also can usually trust my hunger signals. I've learned that if I'm really hungry when I go to bed, I won't sleep unless I have some cheese or milk. I've also learned to ask what I'm actually hungry for. Sometimes I need protein, sometimes I want to chew something hard like a carrot or apple, sometimes I really just want hot tea and honey. Mindfulness can work, if you practice it.6 -
I learned my hunger signals when I started to work out in the morning. I didn't have time to eat breakfast before work and many times would not be able to eat until lunch. It was helpful for me to learn the feeling in my body that was truly hunger and what wasn't.4
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The hunger side is well covered here, but I’ll address satiety as it feels for me. Comfortably full. I’d like to stop eating at “no longer hungry” but that doesn’t leave me satisfied. To solve this, I volume eat vegetables at every meal to literally fill my belly. There’s no way I could have lost 80+ pounds trying to white knuckle being hungry all the time.7
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I have my own potentially stupid question...
When I binged, I absolutely knew that was what I was doing and that it wasn't real hunger. My flaw wasn't not knowing, it was not caring during episodes. My question - Is that uncommon in binge eaters?
I always thought it was common and the hunger thing was just a lie we told the world and sometimes ourselves, but deep down most of us knew exactly what we were doing. Even now, when I have a day where I go over by several hundred (like yesterday), I knew it wasn't real hunger. So far I have had the discipline to put the brakes on before it gets too far and then make up for it with some deficit days, but it does worry me that I still knowingly eat high calorie foods when I am already at or over goal.
So I don't worry so much about what satiety feels like or what truly hungry feels like. I try to be vigilant and catch the thought process that makes me ignore how I feel with regard to hunger.6 -
CarvedTones wrote: »I have my own potentially stupid question...
When I binged, I absolutely knew that was what I was doing and that it wasn't real hunger. My flaw wasn't not knowing, it was not caring during episodes. My question - Is that uncommon in binge eaters?
I always thought it was common and the hunger thing was just a lie we told the world and sometimes ourselves, but deep down most of us knew exactly what we were doing. Even now, when I have a day where I go over by several hundred (like yesterday), I knew it wasn't real hunger. So far I have had the discipline to put the brakes on before it gets too far and then make up for it with some deficit days, but it does worry me that I still knowingly eat high calorie foods when I am already at or over goal.
So I don't worry so much about what satiety feels like or what truly hungry feels like. I try to be vigilant and catch the thought process that makes me ignore how I feel with regard to hunger.
Well... I just ate until I was overstuffed. I didn't care how calorically dense the food was. There were days I would, in retro, eat 8000+ calories.0 -
CarvedTones wrote: »I have my own potentially stupid question...
When I binged, I absolutely knew that was what I was doing and that it wasn't real hunger. My flaw wasn't not knowing, it was not caring during episodes. My question - Is that uncommon in binge eaters?
I always thought it was common and the hunger thing was just a lie we told the world and sometimes ourselves, but deep down most of us knew exactly what we were doing. Even now, when I have a day where I go over by several hundred (like yesterday), I knew it wasn't real hunger. So far I have had the discipline to put the brakes on before it gets too far and then make up for it with some deficit days, but it does worry me that I still knowingly eat high calorie foods when I am already at or over goal.
So I don't worry so much about what satiety feels like or what truly hungry feels like. I try to be vigilant and catch the thought process that makes me ignore how I feel with regard to hunger.
I still binge from time to time...and when I do, I am fully aware that I am not hungry. My goal in that moment is to taste EVERYTHING edible within reach. Salty, sweet, savory, crunchy, soft, decadent, spicy...I can't stop until it's over. "It" being the driving force behind the binge. That's what my question is - What drives the binge? And, obviously it's a question only I can answer. But, I want to know what it is that fuels that itch to eat until my body can't take it anymore.
I'm glad it isn't happening as much anymore.7 -
CarvedTones wrote: »I have my own potentially stupid question...
When I binged, I absolutely knew that was what I was doing and that it wasn't real hunger. My flaw wasn't not knowing, it was not caring during episodes. My question - Is that uncommon in binge eaters?
I always thought it was common and the hunger thing was just a lie we told the world and sometimes ourselves, but deep down most of us knew exactly what we were doing. Even now, when I have a day where I go over by several hundred (like yesterday), I knew it wasn't real hunger. So far I have had the discipline to put the brakes on before it gets too far and then make up for it with some deficit days, but it does worry me that I still knowingly eat high calorie foods when I am already at or over goal.
So I don't worry so much about what satiety feels like or what truly hungry feels like. I try to be vigilant and catch the thought process that makes me ignore how I feel with regard to hunger.
I am with you there. When I binge ate I knew exactly what I was doing and the consequences, which could include being that full that you physically feel ill. It was purely an emotional thing of using food to comfort with the stress, the depression, the anxiety and had nothing to do with hunger. Now I deal with all of those things through walking instead of eating, but at times still to extremes.
I have a feeling though that I will be logging (at least loosely) for life. My signals for hunger and satiety are ones I can't really trust. I only trust it if I see it balancing on paper. I also know that I can still be hungry once I have finished a meal but not 20-30 minutes so stopping before I am full is important.7 -
No massive amount of food feels as good as fit feels
9 -
jamesjeffsmith wrote: »No massive amount of food feels as good as fit feels
For a lot (most?) of us, a binge rarely feels good. I was often disgusted with myself while eating, not just after.19 -
CarvedTones wrote: »jamesjeffsmith wrote: »No massive amount of food feels as good as fit feels
For a lot (most?) of us, a binge rarely feels good. I was often disgusted with myself while eating, not just after.
yup... bro hug my man.10 -
pe4sandra2 wrote: »CarvedTones wrote: »I have my own potentially stupid question...
When I binged, I absolutely knew that was what I was doing and that it wasn't real hunger. My flaw wasn't not knowing, it was not caring during episodes. My question - Is that uncommon in binge eaters?
I always thought it was common and the hunger thing was just a lie we told the world and sometimes ourselves, but deep down most of us knew exactly what we were doing. Even now, when I have a day where I go over by several hundred (like yesterday), I knew it wasn't real hunger. So far I have had the discipline to put the brakes on before it gets too far and then make up for it with some deficit days, but it does worry me that I still knowingly eat high calorie foods when I am already at or over goal.
So I don't worry so much about what satiety feels like or what truly hungry feels like. I try to be vigilant and catch the thought process that makes me ignore how I feel with regard to hunger.
I still binge from time to time...and when I do, I am fully aware that I am not hungry. My goal in that moment is to taste EVERYTHING edible within reach. Salty, sweet, savory, crunchy, soft, decadent, spicy...I can't stop until it's over. "It" being the driving force behind the binge. That's what my question is - What drives the binge? And, obviously it's a question only I can answer. But, I want to know what it is that fuels that itch to eat until my body can't take it anymore.
I'm glad it isn't happening as much anymore.
For sure I've been there. May be there again, who knows? I do know that it has become a rare event but it took a very long time and it took talking and posting and thinking and journaling and making exercise a priority. If any of those things are lacking I can go right back to emotional eating.
If something upsets me that is still in my emotional wheelhouse I'll eat. I used to drink, so I'd rather eat but still it can become a problem very easily if I start using food to cope again. These days my first line of defense is my journal.
Name the problem, name the emotion, name a different solution.
Sometimes something happens that I can't even string together all the tumbling emotions. I have to find a way to let it go and regain a level head and that is best accomplished for me by getting physical in some way. Couch + Blankie + bag o' whatever is never a good solution so I have to interrupt that thought before it grabs on.
I can usually stop myself beforehand because I just don't buy the stuff that I tend to binge on anymore (except peanut butter, it's a thing.) If I can clean out a drawer, fold some clothes, take a walk, do anything physical for even five minutes I can stop the urge. Then once the physical urge is gone, I journal about it. It helps me identify patterns of thinking that are destructive.
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One small thing that I found helped me was to deliberately slow down the speed at which I eat. It actually gave my brain the time to process the fact that food was incoming and to turn off the "I'm starving, here!" signal at a point where much less food had been consumed.9
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"Slow down."
One of the best pieces of life advice there is. Not just slow down the eating, but slow down everything. Thinking, reacting. Everything.15 -
I don't think about it.. I just know how much protein, fat, and carbs I should have to stay thin, and I eat vegetables freely if I want to feel more satisfied.
So, if I want a full feeling .. I eat a large delicious salad and fresh cut, or steamed vegetables with each meal and snack. I never entertain the option of eating extra carbs, proteins, or fats to achieve a more sated feeling.
It works for me.2 -
Its not a stupid question OP. Are you still fairly new to maintenance?2
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It's hard to say. I just feel ... not hungry. Comfortably full but not stuffed. After years of (off and on) counting calories I've learned what appropriate portion sizes look like for me and how I typically feel after eating them. I will say, that my weight problems came from mindlessly snacking and grazing throughout the day and eating too many sweets, probably not as much from eating too much at dinner.4
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LivingtheLeanDream wrote: »Its not a stupid question OP. Are you still fairly new to maintenance?
Only a year in... still learning... I will always be learning. Actually, I keep saying I am going to try and gain some back. I let bf get too low, sub 10. I was a binge eater... well recovering. I have not had an episode in a long while. I just used to eat until stuffed, so all I ever knew was hungry or stuff. Never learned sated.5 -
One time on a cruise ship I did hypnosis for weight loss. They kept saying over and over to listen to your body and as soon as your full stop eating. It worked great for about 2 weeks> my take away from that is the signals are there if you let them in to your physical side....
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I really loveeeeee this question! One of my biggest problems as well! Man.. our brain gets *kitten* up quite easily I guess...1
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