October 2018 Monthly Running Challenge

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  • hikinggal11
    hikinggal11 Posts: 59 Member
    AprilRN10 wrote: »
    My goal is 100 miles again. I don't have enough time right now for any more. I can only manage weight training 1-2 days a week. Wish it was 3-4. Once I graduate, it will be lovely.

    I just started weight training (3 weeks ago and 3x/week) any suggesting on fitting running and weight training every week? Thanks in advance!!
  • shanaber
    shanaber Posts: 6,423 Member
    Does anyone have experience with a Morton's neuroma? I have been having pain in the ball of my foot near my toes that is worse when I walk but I noticed it initially while running a while back. I decided it was possibly my (newer) orthotics causing the issue so I stopped using them for a while especially with my more cushioned shoes. That helped but then my (opposite) hip started bothering me feeling super tight and painful all the time. I figure the hip is a result of not using my orthotics and a possible change in my gait to correct for the painful foot. Checking Dr. Google it sounds most likely a Morton's neuroma.

    So now what? Any tips for living/running with this?
    I see there is a video on the KT tape site to tape for pain in the ball of the foot. Anyone tried this?
  • PastorVincent
    PastorVincent Posts: 6,668 Member
    hikinggal11 wrote: »
    Love to join this group if that is okay. My goal this month is 90 miles. My bigger goal, however, is to run below a 10 minute mile. I am having the most difficult time doing so. I just started weight training so I am blaming it! Any suggestions, ideas, etc. I would love to have them :smile:

    You are more than welcome! But I do suggest you do some research on various plans and pick one to follow. The vast majority of new runners will fail if they set up to just run. Maybe pick a race length, like 5k or 10k and train for that?

    Speed will come in time, build good habits first. :)
  • shanaber
    shanaber Posts: 6,423 Member
    @hikinggal11 - are you saying you are just starting to run and trying to push a 10 min mile?
    Can you have an easy conversation at the pace you are running without being out of breath?

    If not I would suggest:
    1) slow down to where you can have a conversation w/o being out of breath
    2) build time and distance slowly to avoid injury (trying to do too much too soon)
    3) as your body builds endurance you will naturally get faster and then you can also add in some speed work (tempo runs, intervals, etc..)
    4) listen to your body and be sure to rest

    On strength training and running - it is good to do both but again initially I would not run on training days and I would try to find at least one day for a full recovery/rest day (no running, no training). Over time you will likely be able to run and train on the same day but it is important to listen to your body and build slowly.
  • FancyPantsFran
    FancyPantsFran Posts: 3,687 Member
    October Goal 22 miles


    exercise.png

  • RespectTheKitty
    RespectTheKitty Posts: 1,667 Member
    I just joined this thread 16 pages in, so forgive me if this has been discussed before, but... Is anyone here doing the Chicago Marathon this weekend?

  • MegaMooseEsq
    MegaMooseEsq Posts: 3,118 Member
    edited October 2018
    @kgirlhart: I’ll give that a try, thanks! You can hide text or pictures with the word “spoiler” in brackets. ETA: Thanks @RunRachelleRun! Also, I didn’t know about the dropdown, @juliet3455.

    @PastorVincent: It’s from a decade ago, but I recently read an article suggesting that for competitive but non-elite athletes it’s better to go out fast in the 5k. It was just one study of college cross-country female athletes and I have no idea what other research is out there but it made a certain amount of sense to me.

    @hikinggal11: Welcome! I ran my first sub-10 mile since high school back in early July, but realized by mid-July that chasing speed was making me miserable (and also not really working), so I dropped back for most of my runs and started being more strategic about it. Everything I’ve read here and elsewhere says that the way to run fast is to mix up your workouts - don’t just try and run as fast as you can every time, but do at least one run focused on running long and slow, one doing fast intervals, and the rest of your runs somewhere in between.

    After a couple of months of roughly following the Hal Higdon novice half marathon plan my long runs are around 11:30 minutes/mile, medium effort varies from 10 to 11 minutes/mile , and usually once a week I do some sort of speed interval workout for about 20 minutes which usually averages out between 9-10 minutes/mile. I'm close enough to breaking a 9/minute mile that I could probably do it if I really wanted but I just haven't pushed it yet. My last 5K race I ran every mile under 10, which felt awesome, although I didn’t quite break a half hour for the whole race. Good luck!
  • fitoverfortymom
    fitoverfortymom Posts: 3,452 Member
    @MegaMooseEsq You can't go wrong with Hal.
  • RunsOnEspresso
    RunsOnEspresso Posts: 3,218 Member
    RunRachelleRun wrote: »
    RunsOnEspresso wrote: »
    polskagirl01 wrote: »
    RunsOnEspresso wrote: »
    I totally get run/walks. I've done it before but I don't stop to a walk in front of someone I just passed.
    I totally agree, it's not that hard to step to the side and look behind you when switching to a walk. I've kept an even pace and passed the same person/been passed by them over and over again in races because they're run/walking. If it works, I say go for it! BUT I don't understand working so hard to pass little old me, just so you can immediately slow down in front of me, repeatedly.

    But IF you're averaging about the same pace (constantly switching places based on when they run or walk) and IF you're okay with throwing in a faster interval of your own, the trick for me has been to speed up and don't let them pass you on their run interval and then keep up that pace for the time you estimate they're walking. Then go back to your regular pace. IF you both continue at the same overall pace, you should stay ahead of them. DISCLAIMER: Don't do this at the beginning of the race, because everyone could be going out too fast, including you. Wait until things even out. This also won't work if you are already running at your top speed for the distance.

    Some of them keep an even pace but there are others that all out sprint on their run and then basically stop to walk. I don't get it but I use a different race strategy.

    I much prefer going out slow and gaining speed. I love negative splits. Lol

    Eek. I would say, it is done out of ignorance. For my first half marathon millions of years ago, I all-out sprinted for as long as I could (20 to 30 seconds) and then walked until I thought I could go again (probably 20 to 30 seconds). I had no idea what I was doing or that you could build endurance by keeping your heart rate down. My average heart rate for that race was 189. I was very polite and never stopped right after I passed someone, but I remember there were a few of us employing this strategy, and we kept passing each other as we had slightly different run/walk intervals. I also remember there was a woman walking only (no running), and I was so annoyed that I couldn't get and stay ahead of her.

    I assume most aren't like me and study running. I don't feel its my place to say something as I'd be annoyed if someone said something to me about my running or lifting lol

    I don't wave my arm but I always move right and make sure no one is behind me before I stop or walk.

    @shanaber I got a thin vest from UA (I think) a couple years ago when I was going to be running in Wisconsin over Christmas. There I wore it over a shirt and under a jacket. Kept my core nice and warm. Here I have worn it just over a light long sleeve shirt to keep my core warm. Might be something you could use over a puffy vest. I'll try to post a photo when I get home. Honestly though I will probably totally forget to do it. My memory is *kitten*. Lol
  • rheddmobile
    rheddmobile Posts: 6,840 Member
    hikinggal11 wrote: »
    Love to join this group if that is okay. My goal this month is 90 miles. My bigger goal, however, is to run below a 10 minute mile. I am having the most difficult time doing so. I just started weight training so I am blaming it! Any suggestions, ideas, etc. I would love to have them :smile:

    With a 90 mile goal it sounds like you should already have a decent cardio base. You can add speed work, but what worked for me best as far as speed improvements was finishing every run with a faster finish - not quite fast enough to count as a stride, just shifting gears and relaxing into a faster pace, reminding my body what it feels like to go faster. I also mysteriously run much faster when I don't tense my arms and shoulders - every once in a while I shake out my arms and remind myself to kick off to the rear instead of trying to reach out to the front, and my pace picks up with the same amount of effort. Fartleking around also improved my speed. For me there was a point at which it seemed like 10 minute miles were impossible, then suddenly I could do 8, I just hit a threshold and started running much more efficiently.
  • Elise4270
    Elise4270 Posts: 8,375 Member
    shanaber wrote: »
    Does anyone have experience with a Morton's neuroma? I have been having pain in the ball of my foot near my toes that is worse when I walk but I noticed it initially while running a while back. I decided it was possibly my (newer) orthotics causing the issue so I stopped using them for a while especially with my more cushioned shoes. That helped but then my (opposite) hip started bothering me feeling super tight and painful all the time. I figure the hip is a result of not using my orthotics and a possible change in my gait to correct for the painful foot. Checking Dr. Google it sounds most likely a Morton's neuroma.

    So now what? Any tips for living/running with this?
    I see there is a video on the KT tape site to tape for pain in the ball of the foot. Anyone tried this?

    I had an mri for a Morton's neuroma. It, thankfully was negative. If it was positive, it was going to be straight to surgery. Best i know, is that there is no living with it.
  • PastorVincent
    PastorVincent Posts: 6,668 Member
    MegaMooseEsq wrote: »
    @PastorVincent: It’s from a decade ago, but I recently read an article suggesting that for competitive but non-elite athletes it’s better to go out fast in the 5k. It was just one study of college cross-country female athletes and I have no idea what other research is out there but it made a certain amount of sense to me.

    Jeff Galloway disagrees :)
    https://www.runnersworld.com/training/a20790534/learn-how-to-run-negative-splits/

    And others...

    https://running.competitor.com/2016/10/training/how-and-why-to-hit-negative-splits-in-your-next-race_156775

    https://runnersconnect.net/running-questions/negative-splits-in-races/

    http://mojoforrunning.com/training-to-run-negative-splits/

    (etc)

    But really, unless you have a shot at winning... just do what works for you. I mean it is not like the vast majority of us will ever take home a prize bucket of money. :lol:

    If you are in that group, listen to your coach you dope. :lol:
  • PastorVincent
    PastorVincent Posts: 6,668 Member
    fitoverfortymom wrote: »
    @MegaMooseEsq You can't go wrong with Hal.

    Yeah, I used Hal for my first full and my wife used it for her first 1/2 and her first full. Good plans. Everyone has opinions on this of course, but eh, they work. :D
  • RunRachelleRun
    RunRachelleRun Posts: 1,854 Member
    @juliet3455 OMG I should have known there was an easier way lol. Thanks!
  • RandJ6280
    RandJ6280 Posts: 1,161 Member
    edited October 2018
    @shanaber Thank-you for advice. I'll be foam rolling tonight once I get home.
  • RunRachelleRun
    RunRachelleRun Posts: 1,854 Member
    @avidkeo Bwahahaha

    Ours never have pretty shells, we only have little snails and giant slugs. They can be dangerous, though. I twisted my ankle slipping on one. It was completely camouflaged on the trail and I landed on it exactly right (for a klutz). My son thought it was hilarious.
  • RunsOnEspresso
    RunsOnEspresso Posts: 3,218 Member
    I've used Hal and Jenny Hadfield plans. And made my own from a mash up of plans and what I've learned.

    Jenny Hadfield is also a negative split fan although she uses a color analogy. Yellow for the first X miles, orange for the next couple then red for the last tiny bit.

    She also uses the term fishing, which I always do called it picking off the other runners 😂
  • Avidkeo
    Avidkeo Posts: 3,211 Member
    RunRachelleRun wrote: »
    @avidkeo Bwahahaha

    Ours never have pretty shells, we only have little snails and giant slugs. They can be dangerous, though. I twisted my ankle slipping on one. It was completely camouflaged on the trail and I landed on it exactly right (for a klutz). My son thought it was hilarious.

    I really dont want to stand on them, mostly for that reason, plus also I don't fancy killing any creature, even those ones. Finally my oldest daughter would be so sad (4 yr old). She LOVES snails. keeps putting them in containers next to her bed. *shudder*
  • rheddmobile
    rheddmobile Posts: 6,840 Member
    PastorVincent wrote: »
    MegaMooseEsq wrote: »
    @PastorVincent: It’s from a decade ago, but I recently read an article suggesting that for competitive but non-elite athletes it’s better to go out fast in the 5k. It was just one study of college cross-country female athletes and I have no idea what other research is out there but it made a certain amount of sense to me.

    Jeff Galloway disagrees :)
    https://www.runnersworld.com/training/a20790534/learn-how-to-run-negative-splits/

    And others...

    https://running.competitor.com/2016/10/training/how-and-why-to-hit-negative-splits-in-your-next-race_156775

    https://runnersconnect.net/running-questions/negative-splits-in-races/

    http://mojoforrunning.com/training-to-run-negative-splits/

    (etc)

    But really, unless you have a shot at winning... just do what works for you. I mean it is not like the vast majority of us will ever take home a prize bucket of money. :lol:

    If you are in that group, listen to your coach you dope. :lol:

    I'd like to point out the study advocating a fast start was on 5k and the Galloway article is specifically marathon based. Also, the study contains the caveats that it's probably only effective for non-elite non-beginner runners who have some idea of their pacing but probably start too slowly.

    Speaking for myself, the fastest 5k I ever ran, more than a minute faster than my usual, I ran one mile as fast as possible, slowed to a walk for one minute to recover, then finished. I wasn't even trying to run 5k fast that day, just testing out my fast mile speed. But since my usual 5k pace is slightly under 10 minutes, and my fast mile that day was 7:40, that meant even adding in a minute of walking I was still more than a minute faster than my typical pace, plus I started the second run interval well rested from walking. Isn't there a guy who has done studies showing that most non-elite marathoners can shave a lot of time off by run/walking?
  • Elise4270
    Elise4270 Posts: 8,375 Member
    garygse wrote: »
    Recovery run this morning. Massage roll this evening. White chocolate vanilla ice cream Magnum bar somewhere in between.

    In between what? 😳🍑
  • PastorVincent
    PastorVincent Posts: 6,668 Member
    rheddmobile wrote: »
    PastorVincent wrote: »
    MegaMooseEsq wrote: »
    @PastorVincent: It’s from a decade ago, but I recently read an article suggesting that for competitive but non-elite athletes it’s better to go out fast in the 5k. It was just one study of college cross-country female athletes and I have no idea what other research is out there but it made a certain amount of sense to me.

    Jeff Galloway disagrees :)
    https://www.runnersworld.com/training/a20790534/learn-how-to-run-negative-splits/

    And others...

    https://running.competitor.com/2016/10/training/how-and-why-to-hit-negative-splits-in-your-next-race_156775

    https://runnersconnect.net/running-questions/negative-splits-in-races/

    http://mojoforrunning.com/training-to-run-negative-splits/

    (etc)

    But really, unless you have a shot at winning... just do what works for you. I mean it is not like the vast majority of us will ever take home a prize bucket of money. :lol:

    If you are in that group, listen to your coach you dope. :lol:

    I'd like to point out the study advocating a fast start was on 5k and the Galloway article is specifically marathon based. Also, the study contains the caveats that it's probably only effective for non-elite non-beginner runners who have some idea of their pacing but probably start too slowly.

    Speaking for myself, the fastest 5k I ever ran, more than a minute faster than my usual, I ran one mile as fast as possible, slowed to a walk for one minute to recover, then finished. I wasn't even trying to run 5k fast that day, just testing out my fast mile speed. But since my usual 5k pace is slightly under 10 minutes, and my fast mile that day was 7:40, that meant even adding in a minute of walking I was still more than a minute faster than my typical pace, plus I started the second run interval well rested from walking. Isn't there a guy who has done studies showing that most non-elite marathoners can shave a lot of time off by run/walking?

    In the end, each runner needs to do what works for them. I can almost guarantee you can find a study that says your way is best, no matter what that way is.

    Honestly, I try for even pace no matter what the distance. Sprint out of the gate for 1/4th mile to clear the pack, then drop to race pace and hold what I got for however long it takes. Run/Walk is horrible, for me, have tried, can confirm.

  • MegaMooseEsq
    MegaMooseEsq Posts: 3,118 Member
    edited October 2018
    rheddmobile wrote: »
    PastorVincent wrote: »
    MegaMooseEsq wrote: »
    @PastorVincent: It’s from a decade ago, but I recently read an article suggesting that for competitive but non-elite athletes it’s better to go out fast in the 5k. It was just one study of college cross-country female athletes and I have no idea what other research is out there but it made a certain amount of sense to me.

    Jeff Galloway disagrees :)
    https://www.runnersworld.com/training/a20790534/learn-how-to-run-negative-splits/

    And others...

    https://running.competitor.com/2016/10/training/how-and-why-to-hit-negative-splits-in-your-next-race_156775

    https://runnersconnect.net/running-questions/negative-splits-in-races/

    http://mojoforrunning.com/training-to-run-negative-splits/

    (etc)

    But really, unless you have a shot at winning... just do what works for you. I mean it is not like the vast majority of us will ever take home a prize bucket of money. :lol:

    If you are in that group, listen to your coach you dope. :lol:

    I'd like to point out the study advocating a fast start was on 5k and the Galloway article is specifically marathon based. Also, the study contains the caveats that it's probably only effective for non-elite non-beginner runners who have some idea of their pacing but probably start too slowly.

    Speaking for myself, the fastest 5k I ever ran, more than a minute faster than my usual, I ran one mile as fast as possible, slowed to a walk for one minute to recover, then finished. I wasn't even trying to run 5k fast that day, just testing out my fast mile speed. But since my usual 5k pace is slightly under 10 minutes, and my fast mile that day was 7:40, that meant even adding in a minute of walking I was still more than a minute faster than my typical pace, plus I started the second run interval well rested from walking. Isn't there a guy who has done studies showing that most non-elite marathoners can shave a lot of time off by run/walking?

    Yes, I probably should have mentioned that specifically when I posted the link. It was those caveats that made the study make sense to me. I remember a few weeks ago realizing that I could recover at a run instead of needing to walk - it really felt like a turning point in terms of pacing. And of course, I only hit that point after I'd had the "run slower" rule pounded into my head. I wouldn't have wanted to try a fast start 5K my first two races, but I could see giving it a shot next spring.
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