Biking up hill
lorrpb
Posts: 11,463 Member
I'm having a BLAST riding, first time in 30 years! So much fun. Still in the learning curve here and looking for technique tips for biking uphill.
I know about getting into gear early.
When the going gets tough, my front wheel gets quite wobbly and at some point I have to stop from safety concerns. I've read that to help stabilize the wheel you should press down on the handlebars, pull up on them, and use only a light pressure.
I've also read/heard that when going up hill, you get more power from pointing your toes down, pointing your heels down, and switching between the two.
My biking friends can't offer much concrete help other than "power through." I appreciate that it takes practice and experience, but would prefer to practice using an efficient technique, if there "is" such a thing.
Are there any active biking groups here on MFP or facebook (especially for women or older riders)?
Thanks!
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Replies
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I think most of that comes down to preference.
There are different choices of gears. I don't mean you should be shifting, you said you already are. What I mean is somebody in Florida will prefer different gears to somebody here, and the same thing goes for different levels of bike fitness. You can probably spend about $30 to make the gearing on your bike more suited to the steep and long hills we have in this corner of the world, by replacing the cassette.6 -
Like most things, it just takes practice.
I don't know what you mean by the front wheel getting wobbly. Do you mean you are going so slowly that you begin to saw away at the handlebars to maintain balance? If so, then I don't think any toe first or heel first pedal stroke will make a difference.
It's about balance and progress.
With that said, if you get to a gear where you can keep a decent pedaling cadence, you are more likely to continue to make progress. The only way to get better at hills is to ride more hills. Well that and as you drop weight it becomes easier as well. (Not saying you need to, just speaking from the experience of losing 50#) Practicing supports both objectives.
Strength and stamina play a role and one only gets those by putting in the work.2 -
Having the right gears for the hills you ride and your capabilities will make a bigger difference than all your tips you list which sound very dubious and individual to me - there's good climbers with vastly different techniques from the "dancing lightly on the pedals" type to the "power through a brick wall" types.
Keeping your cadence in a good range gives you better gyroscopic stability but crucially balances the effort better between your cardio fitness and your leg strength. Grinding up a hill will quickly wear your quads out.
For short, sharp hills then a burst of power while standing cycling get keep your momentum up, for those long drags then the right gears and CV fitness are required.
I have two cycling buddies who I regard as good on hills and their advice is consistent - to get better on hills do a lot of hills and try hard. Hills have always been my weakest suit but I've made a lot of progress this year just by following that advice.
Glad you are enjoying your new bikes, keep it up!2 -
Which bike is this happening on? Both of them, or just one?
Are you sitting or standing?
These aren't trick questions, there isn't a right answer. I'm guessing your road bike probably had stiffer gearing (because its purpose is to go far and fast) and wondering if the hybrid might be easier on hills?
This is probably a dumb question but are you trying to get to the top of the hill, or to keep up with other risers? Because it's perfectly ok to go slow. It's also ok to stop and rest, or to get off and walk. Most people are eating junk food and watching TV.
One tip: instead of going straight up the hill, try making switchbacks out of it. Go left, when you get to the edge of the road swing right, when you get to that side of the road, swing left again. It's less step that way except for that moment when you change direction. Obviously, you can only do this on quiet, low traffic streets.2 -
Are there any active biking groups here on MFP or facebook (especially for women or older riders)?
bikeforums.net has an over 50 forum. There's excellent info on that site, and terrible info too.
slowtwitch.com has people who are more serious about using the bike for exercise. There are plenty of masters in there.
nwhikers.net is a fantastic resource. Plenty of local knowledge about road conditions on the peninsula, where the best fall color is, snow, etc. Obviously doesn't cater to cyclists, but a great many people on that site are cyclists (and climbers, skiers, swimmers) who love to talk about bikes. Also, some of the best photos you've ever seen.
Finally, there might be group rides in your area?2 -
I started cycling in a very flat area, and struggled any time I had to climb hills.
Then I moved to Tasmania ... where it's just about all hills. So I had to learn.
At first, I tried to just power through, but of course, that didn't work. I blew up within a few hundred metres.
What does work is slowing down ... just like learning to run.
I started cycling up hills as slowly as I could possibly ride up hills, keeping my heart rate down and breathing through my nose. I was crawling up hills at 4 km/h ... the slowest I could go without toppling over. But I could do that for much more than just a few hundred metres. I could do that for a kilometre, and then a couple km, and more! And I started to get a bit faster.
On some hills around here, I'm down around 6 km/h, but others I can occasionally hit double digits now.
I can't say I've done anything special with the handlebars or with my feet (pointing my toes etc.). In fact, I have to be very careful with my Achilles tendons and ride as flat-footed as I can.
I will add that my gearing is set up to be able to cycle up a wall.
Are there any active biking groups here on MFP or facebook (especially for women or older riders)?
Thanks!
I'm an older female cyclist.
I grew up in a cycling family, but started cycling "seriously" in 1990. April 29, 1990. I've been cycling and logging my cycling ever since, and I'm 51 now.
I'm on the bikeforums.net site NorthCascades mentions above.
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I'm having a BLAST riding, first time in 30 years! So much fun. Still in the learning curve here and looking for technique tips for biking uphill.
I know about getting into gear early.
When the going gets tough, my front wheel gets quite wobbly and at some point I have to stop from safety concerns. I've read that to help stabilize the wheel you should press down on the handlebars, pull up on them, and use only a light pressure.
I've also read/heard that when going up hill, you get more power from pointing your toes down, pointing your heels down, and switching between the two.
My biking friends can't offer much concrete help other than "power through." I appreciate that it takes practice and experience, but would prefer to practice using an efficient technique, if there "is" such a thing.
Are there any active biking groups here on MFP or facebook (especially for women or older riders)?
Thanks!
Can you elaborate on that?
Is it as simple as needing to shift your weight forward a bit to keep weight on the front wheel so it doesn't get light and/or wander? If you're standing when it happens, it just takes practice and feel. If you're sitting, try dropping your shoulders/torso just a bit and/or sliding forward on the saddle. Also, watch that your cadence is reasonably smooth/consistent.
As far as the rest of it goes... it's 99% personal preference. Depending on bike setup, pointing a toe or dropping a heel could be counter-productive. You'll see far more benefit by working on a consistent pedal stroke/cadence than you will where your toes are relative to your heels. If you're that worried about power, I'd make sure your bike fit is correct before I did anything else.0 -
Thank you for the feedback and tips. They help bring some clarity to the process. The problem with "doing research" as a newbie is that you find a lot of opinions that are hard to sort out. To respond to the questions:
All my riding so far has been on my road bike. It's been fitted and I've had one follow up adjustment for hand position.
I bought it from a friend so I'm not sure what gears it has. I have 2 in front and 9 in back, Shimano Sora. I asked my bike fitter, he didn't really examine it and suggested counting the teeth or see if I can find numbers on the front sprocket. He said it looked like it might be 11-32 with a compact gear set in the back, probably for relatively flat terrain.
I'm a bit confused if you're supposed to replace the cassette/sprockets for the front gears or the back gears because it seems like I see both being talked about in various articles. Again, "research" = confusion!
All my uphill riding is sitting down. I don't feel stable enough to try standing. When I said "wobbly front wheel" I mean that the as the climb gets hard the front wheel begins turning from right to left and back and I have to stop before it gets to 90 degrees so I don't fall. I have not figured out how to control this.
I don't mind going slow, but I need to be able to keep moving more than 100 yards on steep hills.
I appreciate your tips and will keep trying! I have lots of steep hills in my neighborhood to practice on.
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ok, let's see here...
- You can count the teeth if you really want to know... there are probably also number engraved on the cogs (back), not sure about the rings (front). But regardless, it's what you've got, so does it matter what it is? Unless you are thinking about upgrading/replacing...
- Replacing the cassette (back) is far more common than replacing the rings (front). You'll typically want to do the chain at the same time. Make sure that both are 9-speed.
- Sounds like you're going too slow to keep the bike stable. That will come with practice/fitness, and your balance/feel on teh bike should improve with time. Can you pick different routes to ride that have more gradual climbs?
On a side note... you've got a bike fitter who will take the time to fit you to a bike, but won't figure out what your cassette gearing is??? One takes about 90 seconds, the other takes, well, significantly longer. At the very least, that's some pretty lousy service, IMO.1 -
Yes, I've done ok on longer more gradual climbs. I understand that practice makes perfect and I've only been at this a few weeks. Just wanting to sort out if there are technique issues that I need to be aware of so I don't make it harder than necessary.
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Not really. Work on a smooth, steady spin... but that's about it really. Everything else comes down to practice, feel, and fitness.2
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[*] You can count the teeth if you really want to know... there are probably also number engraved on the cogs (back), not sure about the rings (front). But regardless, it's what you've got, so does it matter what it is? Unless you are thinking about upgrading/replacing...
It's very common for road bikes to be sold with an 11-25T cassette. It used to be even more common, and this is a second hand bike. Normally a cassette change is very inexpensive, fast, and has the most profound effect on hill climbing. Unfortunately in this case it sounds like the bike already has a 32T. But it was worth checking.0 -
I might have remembered the numbers incorrectly, so I will check again.0
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We're talking about the ones in the back. (The ones in the front are more expensive to change.)0
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The front is 50/34 and the back (to the best I can determine) is 11/26.
The plastic cassette holder says HP-23. A-10 is printed on most of the back sprockets.0 -
The front is 50/34 and the back (to the best I can determine) is 11/26.
The plastic cassette holder says HP-23. A-10 is printed on most of the back sprockets.
I have a 50/34 (a "compact" crank) myself. I have two sets of wheels, one has an 11-25 and the other has a 12-28. Every time I'm on the wheels with only 25T, I feel like I'm suffering for no good reason.
Shimano makes an 11-32T which sells for $12.
The rear shifting mechanism determines the lowest gear you can use by its ability to for the chain over it and take up the slack. I think Sora users a long cage RD but confirm that you have one before spending any money!1 -
Shimano website seems to be listing the following options for Sora :The front is 50/34 and the back (to the best I can determine) is 11/26.
The plastic cassette holder says HP-23. A-10 is printed on most of the back sprockets.
11-30T (bQ)
12-25T
13-25T
14-25T
The first option would give you a low gear for hills, no idea what the (bQ) refers to though, maybe someone else could help with that.
(You would normally fit a new chain along with a cassette change by the way but chains are inexpensive.)
https://bike.shimano.com/en-EU/product/component/sora-r3000/CS-HG50-9.html
PS - as you are still only a few weeks into this you might want to defer any equipment changes for a while as you will still be improving rapidly.2 -
PS - as you are still only a few weeks into this you might want to defer any equipment changes for a while as you will still be improving rapidly.
Agreed. My first couple of climbs on my first road bike I couldn't finish... had to get off and walk/push. The second time I ever finished one of those climbs I threw up. Now I run a more aggressive gear ratio and climb faster with less effort.
Though, fortunately... a new cassette and chain are pretty cheap upgrades and might make the learning curve a bit more enjoyable.1 -
are your feet attached? Not a trick question. With feet clipped in you can use 2 sets of muscles, both pushing down and pulling up on your pedals. If you don't like clips try the "cages"like stirrups that you slip your feet into.0
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I appreciate the info. It helps me understand the options and considerations.
I’m still using flat pedals. I have toe clips that attach on one side and took them off when I started because they just seemed like an extra annoyance. I also have separate set of clipless pedals but no shoes at this time.
I do not know the grade of various streets and have no idea how to estimate it. My Fitbit gives me 10-15 floors when I walk it, so about 100-175 ft gain in 1-2 blocks @10-13 ft per floor.0 -
Get yourself on Strava and you will understand and compare the grade of hills you ride and also be able to track your improvement.3
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Try the toe clips.
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I was also going to ask about pedals, if you went clipless yet, remembering the previous discussion. It will definitely give you an advantage. Pushing and pulling on each stroke will provide more power to your climb1
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Personally, I don't think pedals should be your priority at this point.2
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I would stick with the pedals you have for now.
If you're not going to make it up a hill and have to get up and walk, you don't want to add having to clip out before you fall over into the mix. Tackle the hills first, then come back to the pedals.
Clipless can help you sprint faster, because you can pull up on one pedal while you push down on the other one. I really don't think people do this much outside a sprint. 99% of it comes from pushing down on the pedal, and you can do that just fine with the ones you have now.2 -
Get yourself on Strava and you will understand and compare the grade of hills you ride and also be able to track your improvement.
yep. or map a potential route out on https://ridewithgps.com
It will give you an elevation profile.2 -
NorthCascades wrote: »I would stick with the pedals you have for now.
If you're not going to make it up a hill and have to get up and walk, you don't want to add having to clip out before you fall over into the mix. Tackle the hills first, then come back to the pedals.
this. I too would suggest being used to the clipless pedals before tackling a hill that you might have to bail on. (which can happen suddenly especially if you are also getting used to changing/selecting gears).4 -
Stick with the gearing you've got.
Stick with the pedals you've got.
Get onto Strava.
If you are just new to this, it can take a little while to get into the swing of things. But once you do, then consider making changes.2 -
I'm over 60, overweight (considerably), with AFIB and other concerns. Just returned to riding this year after about 30 yrs. Family bought me a trail-style bike (Trek X-Caliber) for 2017 Christmas and my new retirement gift to replace the old touring bike that I had intended to ride.
Living in coastal NJ, I'm in a pretty flat area, but any terrain undulations are a challenge to me. I seek out hills as a certain percentage of my riding. You've already been getting advice about shifting/etc. that I'm not going to add to.
In my case:
1. I refuse to walk the bike up a hill. If necessary (due to either basic conditioning, current state of exhaustion/not or the AFIB), I will pause partway up, then resume when the heart settles down. Some hills took repeated efforts over the year before I scaled them totally in one continuous effort. Those were good feelings each and every time; hills will never be my friends. Now that the season is changing, I continue scaling hills to maintain the basic fitness I've gained as a prep for next year.
2. Halfway through the year, I switched grips to Ergon GP4s. I was getting some hand numbness, so the basic Ergon design was for that. The GP4 has "bar end" handles that I use sometimes to "pull" myself up hills. Whether this is a real thing or a psych thing, they work for me. You can see them in the below picture.
3. I ride flat pedals. I have a long boring story of a self-inflicted accident last year, when I first thought about riding again, that cost me a half-year of recovery, so no clips or cleats for me. This costs in pedaling efficiency, probably especially for hills. Your calculations may be different. I work with my choices and continue to press on.
At this point, I'm happy with the progress I've made, approaching 1000 miles for the year and more than 30lbs lost, plus tremendous gains in overall fitness, general health and outlook on life. I'm looking at higher goals for next year.
Happy cycling!
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