Biking up hill
Replies
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NorthCascades wrote: »
Just looks at bikeforums.net. Noticed that in addition to an over-50 group, there's a "clydesdale" group. Thanks for sharing the tip on this thread.1 -
I'm over 60, overweight (considerably), with AFIB and other concerns. Just returned to riding this year after about 30 yrs. Family bought me a trail-style bike (Trek X-Caliber) for 2017 Christmas and my new retirement gift to replace the old touring bike that I had intended to ride.
Living in coastal NJ, I'm in a pretty flat area, but any terrain undulations are a challenge to me. I seek out hills as a certain percentage of my riding. You've already been getting advice about shifting/etc. that I'm not going to add to.
In my case:
1. I refuse to walk the bike up a hill. If necessary (due to either basic conditioning, current state of exhaustion/not or the AFIB), I will pause partway up, then resume when the heart settles down. Some hills took repeated efforts over the year before I scaled them totally in one continuous effort. Those were good feelings each and every time; hills will never be my friends. Now that the season is changing, I continue scaling hills to maintain the basic fitness I've gained as a prep for next year.
2. Halfway through the year, I switched grips to Ergon GP4s. I was getting some hand numbness, so the basic Ergon design was for that. The GP4 has "bar end" handles that I use sometimes to "pull" myself up hills. Whether this is a real thing or a psych thing, they work for me. You can see them in the below picture.
3. I ride flat pedals. I have a long boring story of a self-inflicted accident last year, when I first thought about riding again, that cost me a half-year of recovery, so no clips or cleats for me. This costs in pedaling efficiency, probably especially for hills. Your calculations may be different. I work with my choices and continue to press on.
At this point, I'm happy with the progress I've made, approaching 1000 miles for the year and more than 30lbs lost, plus tremendous gains in overall fitness, general health and outlook on life. I'm looking at higher goals for next year.
Happy cycling!
I'm pretty well convinced the cost you pay in efficiency is in the ballpark of 10% for less than 1% of the time you ride. Almost nothing, in other words. Clipless pedals are about comfort and safety (preventing a foot from coming off the pedal while cornering, or near brush), not about performance. You can use them to pull up on the pedal and get a little extra, but it's only a little and people only actually do this when they sprint (including sprinting uphill). Cycling is an aerobic sport, oxygen you put into pulling up can't go into pushing down, they're different muscles but run on the same energy source.
There are many pedal based power meters, and none of them even bother to quantify pulling up. If it were important to bike performance, pedal PMs would measure it.2 -
I'm over 60, overweight (considerably), with AFIB and other concerns. Just returned to riding this year after about 30 yrs. Family bought me a trail-style bike (Trek X-Caliber) for 2017 Christmas and my new retirement gift to replace the old touring bike that I had intended to ride.
Living in coastal NJ, I'm in a pretty flat area, but any terrain undulations are a challenge to me. I seek out hills as a certain percentage of my riding. You've already been getting advice about shifting/etc. that I'm not going to add to.
In my case:
1. I refuse to walk the bike up a hill. If necessary (due to either basic conditioning, current state of exhaustion/not or the AFIB), I will pause partway up, then resume when the heart settles down. Some hills took repeated efforts over the year before I scaled them totally in one continuous effort. Those were good feelings each and every time; hills will never be my friends. Now that the season is changing, I continue scaling hills to maintain the basic fitness I've gained as a prep for next year.
2. Halfway through the year, I switched grips to Ergon GP4s. I was getting some hand numbness, so the basic Ergon design was for that. The GP4 has "bar end" handles that I use sometimes to "pull" myself up hills. Whether this is a real thing or a psych thing, they work for me. You can see them in the below picture.
3. I ride flat pedals. I have a long boring story of a self-inflicted accident last year, when I first thought about riding again, that cost me a half-year of recovery, so no clips or cleats for me. This costs in pedaling efficiency, probably especially for hills. Your calculations may be different. I work with my choices and continue to press on.
At this point, I'm happy with the progress I've made, approaching 1000 miles for the year and more than 30lbs lost, plus tremendous gains in overall fitness, general health and outlook on life. I'm looking at higher goals for next year.
Happy cycling!
That's great, it's so fun to get back on a bike at our age! I'm looking into ways to help manage my hand pain/numbness also, but that's another thread, lol.1 -
NorthCascades wrote: »
... so no clips or cleats for me. This costs in pedaling efficiency, probably especially for hills. Your calculations may be different. I work with my choices and continue to press on.
...
I'm pretty well convinced the cost you pay in efficiency is in the ballpark of 10% for less than 1% of the time you ride. Almost nothing, in other words. Clipless pedals are about comfort and safety (preventing a foot from coming off the pedal while cornering, or near brush), not about performance. You can use them to pull up on the pedal and get a little extra, but it's only a little and people only actually do this when they sprint (including sprinting uphill). Cycling is an aerobic sport, oxygen you put into pulling up can't go into pushing down, they're different muscles but run on the same energy source.
There are many pedal based power meters, and none of them even bother to quantify pulling up. If it were important to bike performance, pedal PMs would measure it.
thanks for this deeper analysis.1 -
I downloaded Strava and it says I must autopay $7.99 a month so I deleted it, then when I went to the website it says "download our free app". How does this work? Free to download but pay to use?
I'm not seeing where I can plan a route on the website.
I worked out some rough grade numbers using google map elevations and distances and the hills in my neighborhood are 6-10%.0 -
It's like MFP - you can do the basics for free, but if you want deeper analysis of your data, that's when you have to pay.0
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I'm a heal driver on hills...but really, I think that's all about preference and feel. Really, climbing comes down to practice and building that aspect of cycling fitness. I'm not a particularly good climber and it's one of the areas I've been working on.2
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I downloaded Strava and it says I must autopay $7.99 a month so I deleted it, then when I went to the website it says "download our free app". How does this work? Free to download but pay to use?
Nope mostly free. There are some things you can do cool for$, but none are needed. They dropped the prices recently, so it shouldn't be $8 anymore. You can use all the social aspects for free always.I'm not seeing where I can plan a route on the website.
The is no mapping. It's a social platform - comparing yourself to others. The big reason to use it are segments. Users tag parts and compete over them. Some segments have a couple people ride or run them. Some segments have TdF courses on them...
However if your ride has segments, they do list the grade.
It's under the explore tab.
I typically "explore" segments, pick some where I want to go, then flesh out the route on Google
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I downloaded Strava and it says I must autopay $7.99 a month so I deleted it, then when I went to the website it says "download our free app". How does this work? Free to download but pay to use?
I'm not seeing where I can plan a route on the website.
I worked out some rough grade numbers using google map elevations and distances and the hills in my neighborhood are 6-10%.
Strava app is free on my phone, I've never seen any benefit for me in their paid version "Summit" as it's now called.
Unless you have a navigation device (such as a Garmin or Wahoo head unit you don't need to create a route and won't get much benefit from it). As you ride you will find you will be travelling established segments and you will be able to see the various hills etc. and track your improvements.
6-10% are significant hills so don't be surprised they feel challenging. On the upside they will make you a stronger cyclist.
Just in case.... To create a route on the website:- Click on the Strava logo top left to go to your home page.
- From Dashboard menu click on "My Routes"
- Click on "Create New Route".
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If you want to pre-map with stava, I think you can only do it on the site (not on the app). I think that's fairly common. I pre-map a lot of my rides, but do so on ridewithgps.com, so I could be wrong about strava.0
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Going back to the pedal thing, because... well, I'm not sure why... probably just because I'm bored...
I would guess you see more benefit from the better power transfer coming from super stiff soles clipped to the pedal than you do from "being able to pull up and push down" while pedaling. I don't think anyone had mentioned that.3 -
To go back to the question in which someone asked what is the grade of the hills where I'm having trouble. Per Strava 7-12%. It looks like I've made up 5-6% grades. So what do you make of that?0
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It’s quite simple, ease yourself forward slightly on the saddle, that’s shifting weight away from the back wheel and towards the front and bend your arm which will bring weight over the front wheel, keeping weight on it, plus lowering your centre of gravity, I have to do this all the time.
Do take pressure out your front tyre, you will puncture, no need to push down on the bars.
Mark1 -
To go back to the question in which someone asked what is the grade of the hills where I'm having trouble. Per Strava 7-12%. It looks like I've made up 5-6% grades. So what do you make of that?
My opinion is definitely consider a cassette change if you want to, or have to, tackle those grades regularly.
I live close to a long ridge of hills with grades of 10 - 17% with some extremes of 20% and run cassettes with a low bottom gear to help me up those hills. Haven't had to walk a hill in years and the difference between keeping a reasonable cadence and slowing to a grind is huge.
Did this route recently with a far better rider than me and was able to keep with them purely because I had the right gears and they were geared for the flat.
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To go back to the question in which someone asked what is the grade of the hills where I'm having trouble. Per Strava 7-12%. It looks like I've made up 5-6% grades. So what do you make of that?
In my opinion, it doesn't mean anything. It just gives you a baseline for where you're at right now. Less than 5%? Good to go. More than 5%? Iffy. Now you know where you're at, you can plan your upcoming rides accordingly.0 -
To go back to the question in which someone asked what is the grade of the hills where I'm having trouble. Per Strava 7-12%. It looks like I've made up 5-6% grades. So what do you make of that?
In my opinion, it doesn't mean anything. It just gives you a baseline for where you're at right now. Less than 5%? Good to go. More than 5%? Iffy. Now you know where you're at, you can plan your upcoming rides accordingly.1 -
To go back to the question in which someone asked what is the grade of the hills where I'm having trouble. Per Strava 7-12%. It looks like I've made up 5-6% grades. So what do you make of that?
12% grades are difficult for all cyclists, including the professionals. Hurricane Ridge Road averages 8%!2 -
Going back to the pedal thing, because... well, I'm not sure why... probably just because I'm bored...
I would guess you see more benefit from the better power transfer coming from super stiff soles clipped to the pedal than you do from "being able to pull up and push down" while pedaling. I don't think anyone had mentioned that.
I'll cosign this.
While we're on the subject, if you ever start getting hot spots on the bottom of your feet after rides, stiff soled shoes are the answer.1 -
What tires do you have on your road bike, and what size?0
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I downloaded Strava and it says I must autopay $7.99 a month so I deleted it, then when I went to the website it says "download our free app". How does this work? Free to download but pay to use?
I'm not seeing where I can plan a route on the website.
I worked out some rough grade numbers using google map elevations and distances and the hills in my neighborhood are 6-10%.
It's free.
Unless you want to get the paid version.
I don't plan routes on the website, I just ride them and look at them after I ride them. I plan routes on Ride with GPS.0 -
To go back to the question in which someone asked what is the grade of the hills where I'm having trouble. Per Strava 7-12%. It looks like I've made up 5-6% grades. So what do you make of that?
Personally, I'm OK with hills under 10%. I'm slow on them, but I can make it up. But then I've got really low gears.
Once a hill goes over 10% it becomes more of a struggle.
Since you're starting out with this, I'd focus on the 5-6% grades and get so that you feel quite comfortable on them, and then start adding in steeper grades.1 -
To go back to the question in which someone asked what is the grade of the hills where I'm having trouble. Per Strava 7-12%. It looks like I've made up 5-6% grades. So what do you make of that?
Personally, I'm OK with hills under 10%. I'm slow on them, but I can make it up. But then I've got really low gears.
Once a hill goes over 10% it becomes more of a struggle.
Since you're starting out with this, I'd focus on the 5-6% grades and get so that you feel quite comfortable on them, and then start adding in steeper grades.
Can you explain what gearing you have for "really low gears"? Thx.0 -
To go back to the question in which someone asked what is the grade of the hills where I'm having trouble. Per Strava 7-12%. It looks like I've made up 5-6% grades. So what do you make of that?
Personally, I'm OK with hills under 10%. I'm slow on them, but I can make it up. But then I've got really low gears.
Once a hill goes over 10% it becomes more of a struggle.
Since you're starting out with this, I'd focus on the 5-6% grades and get so that you feel quite comfortable on them, and then start adding in steeper grades.
Can you explain what gearing you have for "really low gears"? Thx.
My cassette is an 11-32t which gives me a couple of good climbing gears to work with.
Something else you may want to consider doing a couple times per week are some hill repeats on a hill that is challenging, but doable...hill repeats have definitely improved my climbing game.2 -
NorthCascades wrote: »What tires do you have on your road bike, and what size?
700x23 Gatorskin. What difference does this make?0 -
I hope this doesn't come out sounding snarky, but I really think you're over thinking things.
Just go ride. You'll improve quickly, and most of the conversation will become moot. If there's an actual problem, then that's one thing... but it sounds like you're just new to cycling and need more time in the saddle.1 -
NorthCascades wrote: »What tires do you have on your road bike, and what size?
700x23 Gatorskin. What difference does this make?
Good choice. Keep those for a while.
Bigger tires are heavier (small difference) and are like using a harder gear (medium difference). People use fat tires anyway because they can be more comfortable. But we live in an unusually hilly place, and our hills are steeper than most. 23s are perfect.2 -
I hope this doesn't come out sounding snarky, but I really think you're over thinking things.
Just go ride. You'll improve quickly, and most of the conversation will become moot. If there's an actual problem, then that's one thing... but it sounds like you're just new to cycling and need more time in the saddle.
I don’t think it’s snarky, but I’m just responding to various questions others have asked and trying learn. People have asked about my gears, road grades, tires, etc so I responded and want to know why they ask.
I totally agree, I’m a very new rider and definitely need lots of time in the saddle.1 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »To go back to the question in which someone asked what is the grade of the hills where I'm having trouble. Per Strava 7-12%. It looks like I've made up 5-6% grades. So what do you make of that?
Personally, I'm OK with hills under 10%. I'm slow on them, but I can make it up. But then I've got really low gears.
Once a hill goes over 10% it becomes more of a struggle.
Since you're starting out with this, I'd focus on the 5-6% grades and get so that you feel quite comfortable on them, and then start adding in steeper grades.
Can you explain what gearing you have for "really low gears"? Thx.
My cassette is an 11-32t which gives me a couple of good climbing gears to work with.
Something else you may want to consider doing a couple times per week are some hill repeats on a hill that is challenging, but doable...hill repeats have definitely improved my climbing game.
I used to do hill repeats every other day and it took a week or two before I noticed a really big difference.
On the other hand, you'll get plenty of hills in a lot of rides just because they're unavoidable. And those will make you a stronger rider too. Especially as you're new to cycling. It's ok to just take your "intervals" as mother nature delivers them to you.
I know that you're competitive in triathlon. This isn't a "you're out of shape" thing, it's a "you're not adapted to road cycling" thing. Which is good news, because you sorry have a base to build on, and this will come much quicker than trying to build fitness from the couch.2 -
NorthCascades wrote: »NorthCascades wrote: »What tires do you have on your road bike, and what size?
700x23 Gatorskin. What difference does this make?
Good choice. Keep those for a while.
Bigger tires are heavier (small difference) and are like using a harder gear (medium difference). People use fat tires anyway because they can be more comfortable. But we live in an unusually hilly place, and our hills are steeper than most. 23s are perfect.
Thanks, good to know!0 -
The smaller front sprocket and largest rear sprocket will be the easiest and with the highest cadence.
Start with that and keep shifting the rear to a larger sprocket as you get more conditioned. Once you get to the smallest rear sprocket it will be time to switch to the larger front sprocket and repeat the rear sprocket process.
Hope this helps.1
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