Is there free will?

Chael2dot0
Chael2dot0 Posts: 1,189 Member
in Chit-Chat
I usually don't mix my forums, but on another board I manage there was a question of free will, and does it exist. And if it in fact does exist, what is it.

Curious to hear how this looks for you all.

So what is free will and do we have it?
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Replies

  • cathipa
    cathipa Posts: 2,991 Member
    I used to have this discussion with a good friend in college and we would go round and round about it. And this is only my opinion, but I think it depends on if you are religious or not. If you are religious then no as God has predetermined everything.
  • maureenkhilde
    maureenkhilde Posts: 850 Member
    I go with the anytime we make a choice, that is freewill. And we should all be aware that choices have consequences. But we make the choice, I do think that the choices we make is a combination of the culture we grow up in (environment if you will), and our genetic make up.

    But in the end each makes a choice or many choices, which is FreeWill. I do not buy into the Religious end at all. But that is just me.
  • Jruzer
    Jruzer Posts: 3,501 Member
    jjpptt2 wrote: »
    cathipa wrote: »
    If you are religious then no as God has predetermined everything.

    Is that true?

    My catholocism is a little rusty, but IIRC, God knows all (and thus knows the decisions we will make, how our futures will go, etc etc), but not that he made those decisions for us as part of his grand plan.

    From the Catechism of the Catholic Church:
    God created man a rational being, conferring on him the dignity of a person who can initiate and control his own actions. "God willed that man should be 'left in the hand of his own counsel,' so that he might of his own accord seek his Creator and freely attain his full and blessed perfection by cleaving to him."

    Man is rational and therefore like God; he is created with free will and is master over his acts.
  • 4legsRbetterthan2
    4legsRbetterthan2 Posts: 19,590 MFP Moderator
    InkgirlKC wrote: »
    free-willy-jump-n407rp.jpg


    Did I do this right?

    YES!!!!
  • Chael2dot0
    Chael2dot0 Posts: 1,189 Member
    InkgirlKC wrote: »
    free-willy-jump-n407rp.jpg


    Did I do this right?

    Fully expected, and thank you. :)
  • SwannySez
    SwannySez Posts: 5,860 Member
    FeelinFooFoo wrote: »
    Yes cos I just decided to post this comment. I decided to do that.

    Nope. I used the mind control on ya.
  • Chael2dot0
    Chael2dot0 Posts: 1,189 Member
    cathipa wrote: »
    If you are religious then no as God has predetermined everything.

    In the overall discussion, it is interesting that religions both hold that you have a predetermined destiny, and that you also have free will. For me, they are mutally exclusive.

    For me, free will is only the ability to make choices, even if we were making those decisions with constraints of social, economical, religous factors. It is free will because we can never know an absolute outcome. Inversley, and interesting to mention is, a being that knows everything actually has no free will because there is no choice they can make that they do not know the absolute outcome. That plays to the above mentioned paradox.

    Thank you all for contributing so far.


  • jjpptt2
    jjpptt2 Posts: 5,650 Member
    edited October 2018
    Chael2dot0 wrote: »
    cathipa wrote: »
    If you are religious then no as God has predetermined everything.

    In the overall discussion, it is interesting that religions both hold that you have a predetermined destiny, and that you also have free will. For me, they are mutally exclusive.

    For me, free will is only the ability to make choices, even if we were making those decisions with constraints of social, economical, religous factors. It is free will because we can never know an absolute outcome. Inversley, and interesting to mention is, a being that knows everything actually has no free will because there is no choice they can make that they do not know the absolute outcome. That plays to the above mentioned paradox.

    Thank you all for contributing so far.


    Interesting way to define/contextualize free will...
  • jjpptt2
    jjpptt2 Posts: 5,650 Member
    bigbandjohn wrote: »
    I studied sociology. One class discussed being an individual. The last day of class we were asked the question "When does a person become an individual?" Most people said between 12 and 18. Some younger, a couple older. Finally, after everyone else answered, I raised my hand. Last person to answer. I said "They don't. They are a product of their environment."

    I got an A.

    That being said, there are biological factors that I feel are independent of social upbringing that contribute to individuality. As for free will, I disagree with the religious view "God having predetermined everything". There is a difference between predetermination and foreknowledge. I feel the religious core is that God wants people to chose themselves. He can influence based on his knowledge, but he won't force, IMHO.

    I don't mean to get into a religious debate here (and I will stop from this point on that front).

    I would say ultimately it depends on what your definition of free will is. Without that definition in place, the answer becomes impossible.

    Does upbringing restrict your choices? Does biochemical dictation of choice subvert free will? Is there a spiritual component and how does that play into it?

    Not an easy question. It's given philosiphers eons of debate.

    What does that imply? Legit question... trying to understand your stance.

    Are you saying that society/environment takes away our ability to chose? Is that because of the things like leaned/imposed morality, laws/consequences, etc? Or... ?
  • James_1954
    James_1954 Posts: 187 Member
    Nope. Will costs ten cents per choice. So it's cheap, but it ain't free.
  • erickirb
    erickirb Posts: 12,294 Member
    edited October 2018
    The argument against free will that was discussed in my philosophy class was that there is an illusion of free will. The reason why, it seems like you have a choice but given all of your experiences/knowledge/etc. to that date you would have made that same decision even if you could go back but only know what you knew then, as such, it was the only choice you made at the time, the only one you therefore you could make
  • Lounmoun
    Lounmoun Posts: 8,423 Member
    I definitely think humans naturally have free will. I don't believe there is a cosmic higher power or fate controlling our lives. Humans have the ability to make choices and control their actions. However, humans can put other humans in a position where their choices and actions are limited or controlled.
  • Chael2dot0
    Chael2dot0 Posts: 1,189 Member
    jjpptt2 wrote: »
    Chael2dot0 wrote: »
    cathipa wrote: »
    If you are religious then no as God has predetermined everything.

    In the overall discussion, it is interesting that religions both hold that you have a predetermined destiny, and that you also have free will. For me, they are mutally exclusive.

    For me, free will is only the ability to make choices, even if we were making those decisions with constraints of social, economical, religous factors. It is free will because we can never know an absolute outcome. Inversley, and interesting to mention is, a being that knows everything actually has no free will because there is no choice they can make that they do not know the absolute outcome. That plays to the above mentioned paradox.

    Thank you all for contributing so far.


    Interesting way to define/contextualize free will...

    Well, the context of that statement was based on someone trying to define free will not existing because the universe is always looking to balance thins out - every action has an equal reaction. But for temporal and limited beings, we make choices while being blisfully unaware of the universe or greater power balancing things out. And balance may not happen in any concept of time we even know.

    At the crux of it is, though, the ability to make that choice...all other factor and outcomes be danged.
  • caco_ethes
    caco_ethes Posts: 11,962 Member
    The answers are getting longer and longer so things must be getting pretty serious.

    This whole universe is a matrix. Everything is nothing. We don’t matter. We don’t make decisions. ‘Free will’ is an oxymoron.

    I’ll be back next week for another pep talk to cheer the masses.

  • Chael2dot0
    Chael2dot0 Posts: 1,189 Member
    caco_ethes wrote: »
    The answers are getting longer and longer so things must be getting pretty serious.

    This whole universe is a matrix. Everything is nothing. We don’t matter. We don’t make decisions. ‘Free will’ is an oxymoron.

    I’ll be back next week for another pep talk to cheer the masses.

    So you don't know.
    Got it.

    :p
  • 4legsRbetterthan2
    4legsRbetterthan2 Posts: 19,590 MFP Moderator
    Chael2dot0 wrote: »
    cathipa wrote: »
    If you are religious then no as God has predetermined everything.

    In the overall discussion, it is interesting that religions both hold that you have a predetermined destiny, and that you also have free will. For me, they are mutally exclusive.

    For me, free will is only the ability to make choices, even if we were making those decisions with constraints of social, economical, religous factors. It is free will because we can never know an absolute outcome. Inversley, and interesting to mention is, a being that knows everything actually has no free will because there is no choice they can make that they do not know the absolute outcome. That plays to the above mentioned paradox.

    Thank you all for contributing so far.


    I can't say I agree with the bolded. Does knowledge really take away your free will? Just because you know the outcome doesn't mean you can't make the decision. Your decisions really boil down to motives as apposed to knowledge of outcome. Religious belief/morals might be more restricting than knowledge.

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