Is there free will?
Chael2dot0
Posts: 1,189 Member
in Chit-Chat
I usually don't mix my forums, but on another board I manage there was a question of free will, and does it exist. And if it in fact does exist, what is it.
Curious to hear how this looks for you all.
So what is free will and do we have it?
Curious to hear how this looks for you all.
So what is free will and do we have it?
4
Replies
-
I used to have this discussion with a good friend in college and we would go round and round about it. And this is only my opinion, but I think it depends on if you are religious or not. If you are religious then no as God has predetermined everything.4
-
I believe that free will is the ability to act in any situation in any manner a person deems fit. I believe that we as humans have that. There are always consequences to any decision, but we are free to make whatever choice we wish.5
-
If you are religious then no as God has predetermined everything.
Is that true?
My catholocism is a little rusty, but IIRC, God knows all (and thus knows the decisions we will make, how our futures will go, etc etc), but not that he made those decisions for us as part of his grand plan.5 -
I studied sociology. One class discussed being an individual. The last day of class we were asked the question "When does a person become an individual?" Most people said between 12 and 18. Some younger, a couple older. Finally, after everyone else answered, I raised my hand. Last person to answer. I said "They don't. They are a product of their environment."
I got an A.
That being said, there are biological factors that I feel are independent of social upbringing that contribute to individuality. As for free will, I disagree with the religious view "God having predetermined everything". There is a difference between predetermination and foreknowledge. I feel the religious core is that God wants people to chose themselves. He can influence based on his knowledge, but he won't force, IMHO.
I don't mean to get into a religious debate here (and I will stop from this point on that front).
I would say ultimately it depends on what your definition of free will is. Without that definition in place, the answer becomes impossible.
Does upbringing restrict your choices? Does biochemical dictation of choice subvert free will? Is there a spiritual component and how does that play into it?
Not an easy question. It's given philosiphers eons of debate.5 -
I go with the anytime we make a choice, that is freewill. And we should all be aware that choices have consequences. But we make the choice, I do think that the choices we make is a combination of the culture we grow up in (environment if you will), and our genetic make up.
But in the end each makes a choice or many choices, which is FreeWill. I do not buy into the Religious end at all. But that is just me.2 -
If you are religious then no as God has predetermined everything.
Is that true?
My catholocism is a little rusty, but IIRC, God knows all (and thus knows the decisions we will make, how our futures will go, etc etc), but not that he made those decisions for us as part of his grand plan.
From the Catechism of the Catholic Church:God created man a rational being, conferring on him the dignity of a person who can initiate and control his own actions. "God willed that man should be 'left in the hand of his own counsel,' so that he might of his own accord seek his Creator and freely attain his full and blessed perfection by cleaving to him."
Man is rational and therefore like God; he is created with free will and is master over his acts.2 -
Did I do this right?6 -
-
-
FeelinFooFoo wrote: »Yes cos I just decided to post this comment. I decided to do that.
Nope. I used the mind control on ya.3 -
If you are religious then no as God has predetermined everything.
In the overall discussion, it is interesting that religions both hold that you have a predetermined destiny, and that you also have free will. For me, they are mutally exclusive.
For me, free will is only the ability to make choices, even if we were making those decisions with constraints of social, economical, religous factors. It is free will because we can never know an absolute outcome. Inversley, and interesting to mention is, a being that knows everything actually has no free will because there is no choice they can make that they do not know the absolute outcome. That plays to the above mentioned paradox.
Thank you all for contributing so far.
3 -
Chael2dot0 wrote: »If you are religious then no as God has predetermined everything.
In the overall discussion, it is interesting that religions both hold that you have a predetermined destiny, and that you also have free will. For me, they are mutally exclusive.
For me, free will is only the ability to make choices, even if we were making those decisions with constraints of social, economical, religous factors. It is free will because we can never know an absolute outcome. Inversley, and interesting to mention is, a being that knows everything actually has no free will because there is no choice they can make that they do not know the absolute outcome. That plays to the above mentioned paradox.
Thank you all for contributing so far.
Interesting way to define/contextualize free will...0 -
bigbandjohn wrote: »I studied sociology. One class discussed being an individual. The last day of class we were asked the question "When does a person become an individual?" Most people said between 12 and 18. Some younger, a couple older. Finally, after everyone else answered, I raised my hand. Last person to answer. I said "They don't. They are a product of their environment."
I got an A.
That being said, there are biological factors that I feel are independent of social upbringing that contribute to individuality. As for free will, I disagree with the religious view "God having predetermined everything". There is a difference between predetermination and foreknowledge. I feel the religious core is that God wants people to chose themselves. He can influence based on his knowledge, but he won't force, IMHO.
I don't mean to get into a religious debate here (and I will stop from this point on that front).
I would say ultimately it depends on what your definition of free will is. Without that definition in place, the answer becomes impossible.
Does upbringing restrict your choices? Does biochemical dictation of choice subvert free will? Is there a spiritual component and how does that play into it?
Not an easy question. It's given philosiphers eons of debate.
What does that imply? Legit question... trying to understand your stance.
Are you saying that society/environment takes away our ability to chose? Is that because of the things like leaned/imposed morality, laws/consequences, etc? Or... ?1 -
Nope. Will costs ten cents per choice. So it's cheap, but it ain't free.1
-
The argument against free will that was discussed in my philosophy class was that there is an illusion of free will. The reason why, it seems like you have a choice but given all of your experiences/knowledge/etc. to that date you would have made that same decision even if you could go back but only know what you knew then, as such, it was the only choice you made at the time, the only one you therefore you could make2
-
I definitely think humans naturally have free will. I don't believe there is a cosmic higher power or fate controlling our lives. Humans have the ability to make choices and control their actions. However, humans can put other humans in a position where their choices and actions are limited or controlled.0
-
Chael2dot0 wrote: »If you are religious then no as God has predetermined everything.
In the overall discussion, it is interesting that religions both hold that you have a predetermined destiny, and that you also have free will. For me, they are mutally exclusive.
For me, free will is only the ability to make choices, even if we were making those decisions with constraints of social, economical, religous factors. It is free will because we can never know an absolute outcome. Inversley, and interesting to mention is, a being that knows everything actually has no free will because there is no choice they can make that they do not know the absolute outcome. That plays to the above mentioned paradox.
Thank you all for contributing so far.
Interesting way to define/contextualize free will...
Well, the context of that statement was based on someone trying to define free will not existing because the universe is always looking to balance thins out - every action has an equal reaction. But for temporal and limited beings, we make choices while being blisfully unaware of the universe or greater power balancing things out. And balance may not happen in any concept of time we even know.
At the crux of it is, though, the ability to make that choice...all other factor and outcomes be danged.1 -
The answers are getting longer and longer so things must be getting pretty serious.
This whole universe is a matrix. Everything is nothing. We don’t matter. We don’t make decisions. ‘Free will’ is an oxymoron.
I’ll be back next week for another pep talk to cheer the masses.
3 -
caco_ethes wrote: »The answers are getting longer and longer so things must be getting pretty serious.
This whole universe is a matrix. Everything is nothing. We don’t matter. We don’t make decisions. ‘Free will’ is an oxymoron.
I’ll be back next week for another pep talk to cheer the masses.
So you don't know.
Got it.
2 -
Chael2dot0 wrote: »If you are religious then no as God has predetermined everything.
In the overall discussion, it is interesting that religions both hold that you have a predetermined destiny, and that you also have free will. For me, they are mutally exclusive.
For me, free will is only the ability to make choices, even if we were making those decisions with constraints of social, economical, religous factors. It is free will because we can never know an absolute outcome. Inversley, and interesting to mention is, a being that knows everything actually has no free will because there is no choice they can make that they do not know the absolute outcome. That plays to the above mentioned paradox.
Thank you all for contributing so far.
I can't say I agree with the bolded. Does knowledge really take away your free will? Just because you know the outcome doesn't mean you can't make the decision. Your decisions really boil down to motives as apposed to knowledge of outcome. Religious belief/morals might be more restricting than knowledge.0 -
If you are religious then no as God has predetermined everything.
Is that true?
My catholocism is a little rusty, but IIRC, God knows all (and thus knows the decisions we will make, how our futures will go, etc etc), but not that he made those decisions for us as part of his grand plan.
It depends on the brand of Christianity that you follow. Calvinists generally believed in predestination.0 -
If you are religious then no as God has predetermined everything.
Is that true?
My catholocism is a little rusty, but IIRC, God knows all (and thus knows the decisions we will make, how our futures will go, etc etc), but not that he made those decisions for us as part of his grand plan.
It depends on the brand of Christianity that you follow. Calvinists generally believed in predestination.
lol. My wife won't let me get this...
2 -
Nope.
Attorney packages usually include at least one meeting with the lawyer. The attorney then draws up your will according to your specifications. If you're requesting only a will, the minimum cost can run from $150 to $600, for an average cost of about $375.10 -
Free will is 1) the totality of your previous experiences, action-outcome results, analytical and emotional capacity, all confronted with 2) your needs and desires, starting from the very basic to the very high-level (such as self-actualization).
As such it is not „free” in the strictest sense. It is molded and conditioned by the above. It is molded and conditioned by religion as well, but it can be argued that religion is included in the above, as the need to justify / attribute meaning to chaos and chance, via an additional set of rules that apply based on your actions. I do not believe in religion as an institution and set of rituals, but I am not an atheist.
However, I also do not think that believing in a „higher power” means believing in the lack of free will. Take Christianity for example. It conveys that humankind actually started with an act of free will / succumbing to non-heavenly persuasion - which was taking the apple.5 -
I used to have this discussion with a good friend in college and we would go round and round about it. And this is only my opinion, but I think it depends on if you are religious or not. If you are religious then no as God has predetermined everything.
One group within Christianity believe everything is predestined. That is a stream within Protestantism but is not all of Protestantism and is not any of Catholicism.
2 -
SabAteNine wrote: »As such it is not „free” in the strictest sense. It is molded and conditioned by the above
This runs with the "mouse in the maze" thought of free will, in that you can put a mouse in a maze and the mouse certainly has the ability to chose the direction it wants to go, but to what end can it go? It is a predefined space overa.
In that sense, based on the construct around us, we do not have free will because we are fully vested in the ecosystem we live. E.g. - we cannot make a decision beyond where, when, and how we exist.
2 -
I find it curious that so many people feel that it is impossible to look at something objectively and believe that experience necessarily must inform a decision.2
-
FeelinFooFoo wrote: »So, when people talk about 'destiny' is that basically another way of saying that they believe people don't have 'free will' ?
Or that they have free will but only to a certain extent? Surely anyone who believes in destiny.....must kinda think that their choices/desicions are already set? No? This is a good question.
I don't think they have to contradict each other.
I tell my boys I believe they are destined for great things. But I beleive that based on them making good choices in life and not that I think anything power in the universe has it set they will be something.0 -
Free will is an illusion = D0
-
Categories
- All Categories
- 1.4M Health, Wellness and Goals
- 393.4K Introduce Yourself
- 43.8K Getting Started
- 260.2K Health and Weight Loss
- 175.9K Food and Nutrition
- 47.4K Recipes
- 232.5K Fitness and Exercise
- 424 Sleep, Mindfulness and Overall Wellness
- 6.5K Goal: Maintaining Weight
- 8.5K Goal: Gaining Weight and Body Building
- 153K Motivation and Support
- 8K Challenges
- 1.3K Debate Club
- 96.3K Chit-Chat
- 2.5K Fun and Games
- 3.7K MyFitnessPal Information
- 24 News and Announcements
- 1.1K Feature Suggestions and Ideas
- 2.6K MyFitnessPal Tech Support Questions