Is there free will?

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  • glgcam5150
    glgcam5150 Posts: 3,728 Member
    edited October 2018
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    Under My Free Will
    I Will Leave This Here
    For Fellow Rush Fans
    To Appropriately Contemplate
    And Reminisce ..Enjoy🎶

    ▶️ https://youtu.be/eVinZHV-0XY

    🤘
  • ninerbuff
    ninerbuff Posts: 48,692 Member
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    Jruzer wrote: »
    ninerbuff wrote: »
    Jruzer wrote: »
    jjpptt2 wrote: »
    cathipa wrote: »
    If you are religious then no as God has predetermined everything.

    Is that true?

    My catholocism is a little rusty, but IIRC, God knows all (and thus knows the decisions we will make, how our futures will go, etc etc), but not that he made those decisions for us as part of his grand plan.

    From the Catechism of the Catholic Church:
    God created man a rational being, conferring on him the dignity of a person who can initiate and control his own actions. "God willed that man should be 'left in the hand of his own counsel,' so that he might of his own accord seek his Creator and freely attain his full and blessed perfection by cleaving to him."

    Man is rational and therefore like God; he is created with free will and is master over his acts.
    Let's put it this way. You believe in god and go to him or go to hell. That's not "free will". That's ultimatum. Free will would be "would you like chicken, steak or turkey on that sandwich?" You're just given 2 choices and the latter being a life of "hellfire" if you don't comply. How is that free will?



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    I have adult children. I have raised them, loved them, and provided for them. But I don't force them to love me, don't make them text me, don't force them to visit me. They do these things out of love for me. That's their choice. If they reject me, if they refuse to talk to me or love me, I will still love them. But they will have rejected me out of their own choice, and won't take part in the communion that I so achingly want to have with them.

    But I'm not going to argue religion on this board. I'm just refuting the person who said that "religious people don't believe in free will." Catholics (like me, by the way) will argue that predestination is a diabolical conclusion of flawed reasoning. If there was a god who made souls who were destined for hell through no agency of their own, we should reject that god as evil.
    Do you believe this god has a plan for you? If so, then it's NOT free will.



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  • ninerbuff
    ninerbuff Posts: 48,692 Member
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    tinkerhellraiser wrote: »
    belleflop wrote: »
    Free will doesn't exist. Free will is the ability to have acted differently. For free will to exist we need to be aware of everything that is influencing our actions and in control of every influence. This is not possible.

    Every action that is because you either want to or you are forced to. You can't control your wants and you can't control being forced

    I think what conflates this argument is the brain functions of control. Being self aware gives us the illusion that we chose what we want, therefore feel like the choice was made freely. But again we can't control our wants and are just acting in accordance with something that is out of our control.

    You can only do what you want.



    pretty much the defense of every serial killer who decided to represent himself
    Let's be honest here. Serial killers have something mentally wrong with them if they decide human life isn't worth anything regardless of religion. Killing off your own species for amusement, thrill, etc. is a mental condition.



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  • ninerbuff
    ninerbuff Posts: 48,692 Member
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    Jruzer wrote: »
    bojack5 wrote: »
    For the religious.....if god has gifted man with free will, which allows him to sin, does god pull back this gift when a soul goes to heaven? If he didnt, wouldnt heaven look a lot like earth with man making poor and sinful decisions even while in gods kingdom?

    I think this is a fair question, and will attempt an answer. We don't really have visibility into what heaven will be like; we just have hints and echoes. We can't imagine it or understand it in our present condition except darkly.

    My understanding that humans are made for communion with God in heaven. Once we have entered into this communion, we will be where we truly belong and where we truly fit. We will be the purified versions of ourselves, free from even the desire to sin, experiencing the beatific vision continually. Sin represents disordered desire for something that is good; all disorder will gone.
    My question is what do you do in heaven? Apparently no clothes, no video games, no gossip, no hate, no 4 wheeling, no gambling, etc. So what do you do? Just sit around and worship an entity the rest of your life? Doesn't sound so great.

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  • ninerbuff
    ninerbuff Posts: 48,692 Member
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    Chael2dot0 wrote: »
    ninerbuff wrote: »
    Chael2dot0 wrote: »
    ninerbuff wrote: »
    jjpptt2 wrote: »
    cathipa wrote: »
    If you are religious then no as God has predetermined everything.

    Is that true?

    My catholocism is a little rusty, but IIRC, God knows all (and thus knows the decisions we will make, how our futures will go, etc etc), but not that he made those decisions for us as part of his grand plan.
    You will hear many say "god has a plan for you". If that's the case........................then there's no free will as it's been predetermined. You're just living it out. I'm an atheist anyway.

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    You have to be an atheist, cuz God loves the Bills! B)
    So much so that he endows them with crappy QB's, WR's and a beat up LeSean McCoy who can't stay healthy now. At least your TE is decent.


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    Personal foul...low blow... :p

    tenor.gif
    Sorry, but the truth will set you free!

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