Questions For Those Who Monitor Their Heart Rate while Exercising

AnnPT77

heybales wrote: »

The power going into other non-useful work is true on bikes too - where the power meter is only measuring power into the wheel, not the energy/calories used for increased core/arm usage standing up, and other aspects of just sitting at angle even, gripping on climbs/descents, ect.

Though I can't say I've seen a true heavy spin bike creep on a strong rider on carpeted floor.

That would be interesting to see a strong rower capsize purely from misapplied power.

Not so much misapplied power, as daring physics to make you swim. A racing single is around 12" wide at the water line, 26' long: Many won't sit upright in water without oars and a rower. On machines, you sometimes see people use very extreme layback, which, if you have the core strength and some other factors to pull it off, does potentially put power into the flywheel. Doing that in a boat, you will have the devil of a time keeping the oars in a useful power-relation to the water, and the extremes of the stroke (start and finish) are the least stable positions. That's the main potential swim.

There is a thing called an "ejector crab" where bad bladework causes a rower to be thrown very dramatically from the boat. You can see many examples of this on YouTube by searching "rowing ejector crab", but bad bladework isn't exactly misapplied power.

Main issue from machine technique that translates poorly from machine to boat is slamming the seat/body forward toward the flywheel on the recovery part of the stroke. In a boat, slamming your bodyweight toward the boat's stern on every stroke tends to interject a backwards force on the hull with respect to the race's intended direction - slows you down a good bit. (It's called "checking the boat".)

heybales

AnnPT77 wrote: »

Apologies for the silly-long essay; I don't really know how else to answer. Hope that did give some answer, though . . . ideally understandably.

That wasn't silly long, great info.

I think cross-knowledge like that for actual usage can give ideas to people training in other disciplines, other useful methods outside the normal or best-used that may not be possible for them.

Like many that don't have power meters on bikes - so other methods beyond normally used biking could be useful.

Now we need a write up for cross-country skiing - seeing as how they traditionally have the highest VO2max numbers, would be interesting to compare their methods and distance/time.

If you wanted to do a long row just because you wanted to be out there on the river and enjoy the time/effort - what's the longest stretch/time you could do on nice section of river?
I'm just picturing at some point you might start seeing enough traffic or other water entry or waves or whatever to make it not a great rowing section of river.

I know there is a Missouri River 340, or MR340, that starts here in Kansas City, but not sure rowing in that would work well. I've seen the kayaks going in.

AnnPT77

heybales wrote: »

AnnPT77 wrote: »

Apologies for the silly-long essay; I don't really know how else to answer. Hope that did give some answer, though . . . ideally understandably.

That wasn't silly long, great info.

I think cross-knowledge like that for actual usage can give ideas to people training in other disciplines, other useful methods outside the normal or best-used that may not be possible for them.

Like many that don't have power meters on bikes - so other methods beyond normally used biking could be useful.

Now we need a write up for cross-country skiing - seeing as how they traditionally have the highest VO2max numbers, would be interesting to compare their methods and distance/time.

If you wanted to do a long row just because you wanted to be out there on the river and enjoy the time/effort - what's the longest stretch/time you could do on nice section of river?
I'm just picturing at some point you might start seeing enough traffic or other water entry or waves or whatever to make it not a great rowing section of river.

I know there is a Missouri River 340, or MR340, that starts here in Kansas City, but not sure rowing in that would work well. I've seen the kayaks going in.

Feeling like I'm hijacking OP's thread about heart rate, here, but will answer questions. I could rattle on about rowing indefinitely, unfortunately.

I'd like to see that cross-country ski write-up, too. Elite rowers' V02max is reportedly in the 60-65ml/kg/min range (higher than many other sports), but XC skiers more like 80+.

I find the physical aspect of rowing performance academically interesting. The ideal rower would probably be long (tall and long-limbed), strong, light (obviously those contradict); coordinated and coachable; come in with a genetically high V02max and strong heart. Elites have that high-ish V02max, and really big hearts (described as "torpedo shaped" in some write-ups). Quickness trades off a bit against strength (in either direction: higher stroke rating lower power can equate to lower stroke rating higher power, in some range . . . elites mostly are those who can go high rating, hold technique, apply power, and who are large, strong, and with excellent aerobic/anaerobic fitness and peak power).

As far as your bolded question: Different places have different distances. Compared to other clubs in this area, we have good water.

On the particular stretch of river where I row, one can take a smaller boat (single/double) upstream about 15K, and downstream maybe around 3K. The big multirower boats can go almost that far upstream, though only can turn at certain spots.

We don't go downstream all that often because there's a pair of bridges, then a short but non-scenic bit with power station cooling towers on the way to a dam, and (subjectively) not enough pleasant distance to be worth navigating the bridges. The collegiate teams take eights down there sometimes.

I've been upstream about 11K and back. We used to go upstream farther more often in singles/doubles/quads, but it's gotten very weedy (thick grabby weed mats that grab your oars to try to make you swim, and that have actually immobilized some weaker rowers in singles. There are some twisty bits where the narrowness is dangerous (power boats fly down through those curves, without enough visibility to stop in time; we could be crushed, and have been waked even when we pushed as close the bank as we can get (long oars)). Because of weeds and twists, you have to pick your way a bit, so that makes a more leisurely row (but a little more stress for the cox or bow rower who's steering, the bow rower (usually me) doing so while facing backwards). The upstream route has some parks and nature centers, so fairly wild (wildlife and such), some mostly-upscale low-density neighborhoods, and a few conventional well-kept suburbs, so fairly pleasant surroundings.

Most days, rowing recreationally, we do a circuit from the boathouse (where our boats live) to the downstream bridge, up to an upstream bridge, for a routine day of about 7-8K in around a hour including breaks/turns/etc. That stretch is materially less weedy for most of it, and more open. If there's not a crowded river (bass fisherman, college water-skiing team, two big college rowing teams, recreational power boaters, etc.), we often like to do interval power pieces (X strokes increased power, X strokes SS) between a bit of WU and CD. We take 2-3 water breaks, maybe more in hot weather. Surroundings are parks, a small marina, some upscale houses on big lots - pleasant. We'll do multiple circuits if we have more time than routine (and it's a lovely day ).

The contraints on rowing are width of watercourse (the oars are long, 9-12ish feet); depth (you need a few inches depth over a wide distance to clear the skeg/rudder on the midline, and the oar blades at the extremity); waves; wind (East is worst for us, as counter-current and kicks up more waves, but wind gusts also grab at oar blades or can sail you beyond your capability to overcome); discourteous power boaters (especially discourteous wakeboard boats, as a foot or two wake is pretty big when you have 4" of freeboard); thunderstorms; heavy rain (fills your boat); hypothermia risks (rain/cold, cold water swim risk); and obstacles (floating branches are a risk after windstorms, ice chunks (!)).

You can ride a decent-sized wave if it's not starting close to you (under most conditions you want it rolling parallel to your hull, which was an adaptation for me coming from canoeing where you'd more likely quarter on or perpendicular depending on wavelength).

There exist rowing shells for more extreme conditions, including cross-ocean rowing (!), and for water with more waves, etc. The common boats come in recreational models (shorter, single versions about as wide as medium-narrow kayaks) and racing versions (singles around 26', around 4" at waterline, just over 31 pounds; to 60', much wider, 200ish pounds for coxed eights). We always carry the boats to the water, usually with the number of people who row it. You can turn the boat in about its own length (spins on its center).

There's a wonderful book, "Rowing to Latitude", written by a woman (Jill Fredston) who would do long near-arctic expedition rowing. A good bit relevant to this thread is her describing resting in her tent when holed up due to bad weather, and thinking her heart had stopped - no beat. But, there it was again; measured, and RHR had gone down to something like 36bpm from all that expedition volume. (Wonder what HR zone for that training effect? ).

Beyond constraints of the watercourse, how far one can row is just an endurance question, i.e., longer more leisurely pace if for pleasure, but no reason not to go all day as long as you have drinking water, fuel, and desire - like cycling, I would guess. Very leisurely rowing is pretty low effort, even subaerobic - boats are designed to be efficient. People do rowing touring in some areas, with support vehicles to move gear if multi-day.