Hal Higdon 10k Training Program: Novice (Progress Thread)

OldAssDude

Duck_Puddle wrote: »

Thank

OldAssDude wrote: »

Duck_Puddle wrote: »

OldAssDude wrote: »

I totally blew the plan now...

I did a 10 mile run on Sunday.

Monday I only did a 1.66 mile walk.
Tuesday I was supposed to do a 5 mile run, and I only did a 2.67 mile run/walk.
Wednesday I was supposed to do a 3 mile run, and only did a 3.52 mile run/walk.
Thursday I was supposed to do a 5 mile run, and only did a 3.85 mile run/walk.

I just felt so fatigued after that 10 mile run. I had trouble running 1 mile for some reason.

I looked at the total time I ran on that 10 miler and realized that I ran for 3 hours straight.

That's longer than it takes some people to run a full marathon!

I made every single run up to that point without walking a single time.

Now I feel like I blew the whole kitten thing.

I guess I can look at the bright side that I ran 10 miles before failing.

First-congrats on 10 miles! That’s phenomenal’

Second-if you go back a couple pages you’ll see where some suggested stretching out the plan and adding in a cutback week. You’re in the peak part of the training which is by definition the most fatiguing. You decided to condense the plan rather than extend it. I’m not surprised you’ve been hit by a stretch of fatigue.

That’s not failing anything-that’s called being human and having a normal human response to a rapidly increased training load.

That’s what cutback weeks are for.

Take one of those and then come back next week refreshed, rested and ready to build more.

Also consider looking into gels/chews/something. Most people find them good for runs longer than 2 hours. For the runners I know-that means anywhere from about 7 to 17 miles. Distance is less a factor than time. Glycogen generally runs out about 90 minutes in. If you’re going to be running much longer than that, a little fuel won’t hurt. You don’t *need* it as in you’re not going to keel over and die without it, and your body contains the fuel to complete the distance-it’s just more comfortable, and energetic with the fuel.

And seriously-congrats on 10 miles. That’s a huge milestone!

And stop worrying about your pace compared to others. You’ve run your fastest 5k, a very solid 10k (maybe your fastest? And in the snow no less-or was that the 5k?) and you’ve built up to running 10 freaking miles. You are doing YOU and making tremendous tangible progress (although you somehow still think you aren’t getting a training effect...). Anyway-you’re Rocking this.

Thank you.

I guess I know it's not failing, but I was hitting every mark up to the 10 mile point, but I just could not take anymore after that without feeling like something bad was going to happen. I do listen to my body, and it definitely told me to back off.

Technically, I was not supposed to do the 10 miles until this Sunday, and the 13.1 until next Sunday. My plan is to do shorter more intense (cardio wise) workouts and see how I feel next week.

Since my cardio feels like it has declined a little due to the much lower intensity of these runs, I figure I can do some run/walk higher HR type workouts and give my legs a break for the next week.

It's these long slow runs that are taking the tole on me. Because I run 2 times slower than a good runner, I have to run for twice as long to cover the same distance, so a 10 mile run to me is a 3 hour run.

And yes, I plan on getting some gels for the next one.

I know you’re ahead of the game because you condensed the schedule. I (along with @dewd2) was one to suggest you do the opposite.

I know. I probably should have listened, but I only added 1.2 miles. I think it was more an accumulative thing, and the 10.2 mile run just brought it to that point.

Your cardio isn’t declining (see 5k, 10k Times and the fact that you ran 10 freaking miles). You don’t need “a cardio” (whatever that means) to get a training effect. You have been getting a training effect or you wouldn’t have the 5k and 10k Times nor would you have run 10 miles.

What I mean by cardio is anaerobic. Before the plan I was doing at least 1 intense workout per week. The only intense workouts I did in the past 11 weeks was the 5k and the 10k. I know I am getting a training effect from the low intensity runs, but that is much more of a muscular endurance training effect than it is a cardio training effect. If you think I'm wrong then please explain it to me. It makes sense that if you can run longer at a slower pace, you can run shorter at a faster pace, but I don't see how that is more of a cardio training effect than it is mainly muscular endurance.

Doing more intense stuff is the opposite of backing off. Your nervous system is very much involved in this whole game. Doing intense stuff is just going to exhaust that and slow recovery from the long runs-but I know you’re going to do it anyway.

I was a fitness instructor in the army (way back in the 1980's), but they never taught us about the nervous system. Are you talking about the muscular nervous system?

And please stop with the good/bad. You run. You’re a runner. You’re not the fastest (neither am I-neither are 90% of the runners at races). You’re working to get faster (so am i). Which arguably makes you a better runner than someone who is faster but never trains for improvement.

You have a point here, but putting myself down helps keep me motivated to always push for improvement (in some weird way. )

And running for 3 hours-is freaking amazing.

Yeah, I did, didn't I?

Thanks for your support.

Instead of doing a long run tomorrow, I'm going to do my Tyler Park thing that I used to do on the weekend before I started the plan. It's a little over 7 miles of walk/run (much more walk than run). It will give me a break from running loops around that same "kitten" lake.

Next week, I will try to continue with the plan, and if I still feel too fatigued to make the 13.2, I will extend the plan.

Sound ok?

Thanks again.

dewd2

LESS INTENSE @OldAssDude . Less intense workouts this week. RECOVER!

I was planning to run 14 miles tomorrow with my crew but I've already decided to back out. My body is beat to hell and it needs a break. I spent Friday moving my son into his 2nd floor apartment and today I did intense speed work. Tomorrow I am sleeping. I am not failing, I am recovering.

Running plans are more like guidelines. Try to hit the workouts but adjust as needed. It is always okay to back off some (but usually not a good idea to do more than the plan calls for). Take it easy and get back at it next week.

Also, you'll find as you run longer diet becomes very important. Get lots of carbs and don't skimp on protein.

You got this.

OldAssDude

dewd2 wrote: »

LESS INTENSE @OldAssDude . Less intense workouts this week. RECOVER!

I was planning to run 14 miles tomorrow with my crew but I've already decided to back out. My body is beat to hell and it needs a break. I spent Friday moving my son into his 2nd floor apartment and today I did intense speed work. Tomorrow I am sleeping. I am not failing, I am recovering.

Running plans are more like guidelines. Try to hit the workouts but adjust as needed. It is always okay to back off some (but usually not a good idea to do more than the plan calls for). Take it easy and get back at it next week.

Also, you'll find as you run longer diet becomes very important. Get lots of carbs and don't skimp on protein.

You got this.

Yeah. I'm going to take it easy this week with just run/walk (mostly walk), and see how I feel by the end of the week.

I'm just a little ticked cause I was soooooooooo "kitten" close. At least I am listening to my body though.

Thanks,

dewd2

OldAssDude wrote: »

dewd2 wrote: »

LESS INTENSE @OldAssDude . Less intense workouts this week. RECOVER!

I was planning to run 14 miles tomorrow with my crew but I've already decided to back out. My body is beat to hell and it needs a break. I spent Friday moving my son into his 2nd floor apartment and today I did intense speed work. Tomorrow I am sleeping. I am not failing, I am recovering.

Running plans are more like guidelines. Try to hit the workouts but adjust as needed. It is always okay to back off some (but usually not a good idea to do more than the plan calls for). Take it easy and get back at it next week.

Also, you'll find as you run longer diet becomes very important. Get lots of carbs and don't skimp on protein.

You got this.

Yeah. I'm going to take it easy this week with just run/walk (mostly walk), and see how I feel by the end of the week.

I'm just a little ticked cause I was soooooooooo "kitten" close. At least I am listening to my body though.

Thanks,

Don't be discouraged. When running long distances you will have to learn to be patient. It takes a long time for your body to adjust. This is normal. You will get there.

OldAssDude

Week 11 complete...



Took the advice of taking it easy this week. My legs feel much better today.

I'm glad I went to Tyler park today. There was a run going on there from a running group, and I spoke with a couple of the runners. They told me that I could join their running group from their Facebook page, so I did.

Thanks to everyone who is supporting me in this thread.

OldAssDude

plan Complete...



Garmin Activity...


Garmin Half Marathon Badge...


The shoes I wore...



Time to recover for a bit. My legs are screaming lika-moe-foe.

I would like to give a big thank you to everyone who supported me through this, and a special thank you to @dewd2 for presenting me with this challenge, and helping me a lot along the way.

I actually achieved 3 goals with this...

10k
10 miles
half marathon

And in 12 weeks...

dewd2

Congrats @OldAssDude. Well done!

Silent_Soliloquy

@OldAssDude ... you inspire so much ...

mbaker566

well done

OldAssDude

Duck_Puddle wrote: »

OldAssDude wrote: »

I totally blew the plan now...

I did a 10 mile run on Sunday.

Monday I only did a 1.66 mile walk.
Tuesday I was supposed to do a 5 mile run, and I only did a 2.67 mile run/walk.
Wednesday I was supposed to do a 3 mile run, and only did a 3.52 mile run/walk.
Thursday I was supposed to do a 5 mile run, and only did a 3.85 mile run/walk.

I just felt so fatigued after that 10 mile run. I had trouble running 1 mile for some reason.

I looked at the total time I ran on that 10 miler and realized that I ran for 3 hours straight.

That's longer than it takes some people to run a full marathon!

I made every single run up to that point without walking a single time.

Now I feel like I blew the whole kitten thing.

I guess I can look at the bright side that I ran 10 miles before failing.

First-congrats on 10 miles! That’s phenomenal’

Second-if you go back a couple pages you’ll see where some suggested stretching out the plan and adding in a cutback week. You’re in the peak part of the training which is by definition the most fatiguing. You decided to condense the plan rather than extend it. I’m not surprised you’ve been hit by a stretch of fatigue.

That’s not failing anything-that’s called being human and having a normal human response to a rapidly increased training load.

That’s what cutback weeks are for.

Take one of those and then come back next week refreshed, rested and ready to build more.

Also consider looking into gels/chews/something. Most people find them good for runs longer than 2 hours. For the runners I know-that means anywhere from about 7 to 17 miles. Distance is less a factor than time. Glycogen generally runs out about 90 minutes in. If you’re going to be running much longer than that, a little fuel won’t hurt. You don’t *need* it as in you’re not going to keel over and die without it, and your body contains the fuel to complete the distance-it’s just more comfortable, and energetic with the fuel.

And seriously-congrats on 10 miles. That’s a huge milestone!

And stop worrying about your pace compared to others. You’ve run your fastest 5k, a very solid 10k (maybe your fastest? And in the snow no less-or was that the 5k?) and you’ve built up to running 10 freaking miles. You are doing YOU and making tremendous tangible progress (although you somehow still think you aren’t getting a training effect...). Anyway-you’re Rocking this.

I got a bunch of GU gels from Dick's Sporting Goods, and used them for my 13.1 mile run Sunday.

I took one before walking over to the lake to start my run (about 1 mile or so), then I took another before starting the run. Each lap around the lake is 1.7 miles, so I took one every other lap (for a total of 5 gels (8 laps)).

They seemed to help a lot.

When I did the 10 mile run with out anything, I all of a suddenly felt like I was going down fast and hard at about the 5th or 6th lap, but I just kept pushing to the end.

Using the gels, I never felt that. My legs where screaming, but I did not feel that sudden decline.

Is that what runners refer to as "hitting the wall"?

Thanks for the tips.

garystrickland357

OldAssDude wrote: »

Duck_Puddle wrote: »

OldAssDude wrote: »

I totally blew the plan now...

I did a 10 mile run on Sunday.

Monday I only did a 1.66 mile walk.
Tuesday I was supposed to do a 5 mile run, and I only did a 2.67 mile run/walk.
Wednesday I was supposed to do a 3 mile run, and only did a 3.52 mile run/walk.
Thursday I was supposed to do a 5 mile run, and only did a 3.85 mile run/walk.

I just felt so fatigued after that 10 mile run. I had trouble running 1 mile for some reason.

I looked at the total time I ran on that 10 miler and realized that I ran for 3 hours straight.

That's longer than it takes some people to run a full marathon!

I made every single run up to that point without walking a single time.

Now I feel like I blew the whole kitten thing.

I guess I can look at the bright side that I ran 10 miles before failing.

First-congrats on 10 miles! That’s phenomenal’

Second-if you go back a couple pages you’ll see where some suggested stretching out the plan and adding in a cutback week. You’re in the peak part of the training which is by definition the most fatiguing. You decided to condense the plan rather than extend it. I’m not surprised you’ve been hit by a stretch of fatigue.

That’s not failing anything-that’s called being human and having a normal human response to a rapidly increased training load.

That’s what cutback weeks are for.

Take one of those and then come back next week refreshed, rested and ready to build more.

Also consider looking into gels/chews/something. Most people find them good for runs longer than 2 hours. For the runners I know-that means anywhere from about 7 to 17 miles. Distance is less a factor than time. Glycogen generally runs out about 90 minutes in. If you’re going to be running much longer than that, a little fuel won’t hurt. You don’t *need* it as in you’re not going to keel over and die without it, and your body contains the fuel to complete the distance-it’s just more comfortable, and energetic with the fuel.

And seriously-congrats on 10 miles. That’s a huge milestone!

And stop worrying about your pace compared to others. You’ve run your fastest 5k, a very solid 10k (maybe your fastest? And in the snow no less-or was that the 5k?) and you’ve built up to running 10 freaking miles. You are doing YOU and making tremendous tangible progress (although you somehow still think you aren’t getting a training effect...). Anyway-you’re Rocking this.

I got a bunch of GU gels from Dick's Sporting Goods, and used them for my 13.1 mile run Sunday.

I took one before walking over to the lake to start my run (about 1 mile or so), then I took another before starting the run. Each lap around the lake is 1.7 miles, so I took one every other lap (for a total of 5 gels (8 laps)).

They seemed to help a lot.

When I did the 10 mile run with out anything, I all of a suddenly felt like I was going down fast and hard at about the 5th or 6th lap, but I just kept pushing to the end.

Using the gels, I never felt that. My legs where screaming, but I did not feel that sudden decline.

Is that what runners refer to as "hitting the wall"?

Thanks for the tips.

"Hitting the wall" or "bonking" is when your muscles deplete all the available glycogen and simply stop working. I believe the broad accepted average is to say that most people store about 2,000 calories of glycogen in their muscles. For many marathoners that amount runs out around mile 20. (This is from what I've read) It happens to cyclists as well - I've seen this happen and come close myself a few times.
So the goal is to replace electrolytes and consume easily digestible carbohydrates in order to replenish or extend the available fuel in your muscles. It is possible to eat too much and have gastrointestinal issues or an upset stomach. You can of course eat too little and bonk. Long runs and rides are opportunities to experiment with hydration and fueling to learn what's right for you and what foods your body tolerates well.

When running I usually take a gel every 30 minutes if I'm going to run more than 1 1/2 hours - so that's 200 calories per hour. On my bike I try to make sure I'm taking in about 300 calories per hour from my drinks and solids combined. I only take gels when I'm running. On bike rides of more than 3 hours I usually have real food in addition to gels. I'll make homemade rice bars, mini fruit pies, small, PB&J or ham&cheese sandwiches, mini pancakes, and such.

OldAssDude

Silent_Soliloquy wrote: »

@OldAssDude ... you inspire so much ...

Thank you.

As old as I am, I'm looking for the fountain of middle age... hahahaha

OldAssDude

mbaker566 wrote: »

well done

Thank you.