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Hal Higdon 10k Training Program: Novice (Progress Thread)

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  • Steph_135Steph_135 Posts: 3,071Member Member Posts: 3,071Member Member
    Thanks for sharing! That's great!
  • spiriteagle99spiriteagle99 Posts: 1,954Member Member Posts: 1,954Member Member
    If you want to do the longer distance, you can try it. It it's too much, you could always back off. Alternately, you might do the intermediate 10k program which has only one full rest day and one cross training day. It's up to you whether you want to be running 4 days a week or 5.
  • OldAssDudeOldAssDude Posts: 1,364Member, Premium Member Posts: 1,364Member, Premium Member
    If you want to do the longer distance, you can try it. It it's too much, you could always back off. Alternately, you might do the intermediate 10k program which has only one full rest day and one cross training day. It's up to you whether you want to be running 4 days a week or 5.

    I looked at the intermediate plan and it looks like that one includes speed work on Wednesdays. I was advised not to start doing speed work until i can run about 10 miles non stop (which the 10 mile novice plan would do for me).

    So for now I want to make all the runs at a slow (conversational) pace to build my base aerobic endurance. I will probably use one of the cross days each week to do a combination power walk with some short run (higher intensity) intervals on hilly terrain just to get at least one good cardio in per week and maintain my anaerobic fitness.
  • OldAssDudeOldAssDude Posts: 1,364Member, Premium Member Posts: 1,364Member, Premium Member
    aokoye wrote: »
    OldAssDude wrote: »
    OldAssDude wrote: »
    I was looking at the different plans on the site and think this one may be better suited for me...

    https://halhigdon.com/training-programs/15k-10-mile-training/novice-15k-10-mile/

    I can already run 5 miles, so taking 8 weeks to add only 1.2 miles does not seem as productive. Adding 5 miles in 10 weeks seems like more of a challenge, and i feel like i could do it.

    22a4w1cfzd45.png

    Thoughts?

    What was the purpose of this whole thing again?

    Original purpose was to be able to run 10k and improve my 5k pace by doing lower intensity longer runs. Running at a pace that i can hold a conversation.

    I tend to over do it, and was advised to do longer runs at a much lower intensity.

    Honestly, taking into account a number of your posts in general, I think it would be good for you to stay the course and be patient. That, in and of itself, seems like it would be a challenge for you. You seem to have an all or nothing sort of mentality and I think that staying with the plan that is slower would be a good exercise in realizing that rushing into things is not always/is often not a good thing. If you were training for a 15k then ok, but that's not what you're doing. You said it yourself:
    Original purpose was to be able to run 10k and improve my 5k pace by doing lower intensity longer runs. Running at a pace that i can hold a conversation.

    I tend to over do it, and was advised to do longer runs at a much lower intensity.

    I understand what you're saying, but 8 weeks to add only 1.2 miles to what i can already do (i can currently run 5 miles now)?

    Yes. I do tend to over do things, but i am also willing to make a commitment to keep the run days to a very low intensity (conversational) pace. And also commit to sticking to the plan, but it also has to be a challenge.
    edited November 2018
  • aokoyeaokoye Posts: 1,368Member Member Posts: 1,368Member Member
    OldAssDude wrote: »
    aokoye wrote: »
    OldAssDude wrote: »
    OldAssDude wrote: »
    I was looking at the different plans on the site and think this one may be better suited for me...

    https://halhigdon.com/training-programs/15k-10-mile-training/novice-15k-10-mile/

    I can already run 5 miles, so taking 8 weeks to add only 1.2 miles does not seem as productive. Adding 5 miles in 10 weeks seems like more of a challenge, and i feel like i could do it.

    22a4w1cfzd45.png

    Thoughts?

    What was the purpose of this whole thing again?

    Original purpose was to be able to run 10k and improve my 5k pace by doing lower intensity longer runs. Running at a pace that i can hold a conversation.

    I tend to over do it, and was advised to do longer runs at a much lower intensity.

    Honestly, taking into account a number of your posts in general, I think it would be good for you to stay the course and be patient. That, in and of itself, seems like it would be a challenge for you. You seem to have an all or nothing sort of mentality and I think that staying with the plan that is slower would be a good exercise in realizing that rushing into things is not always/is often not a good thing. If you were training for a 15k then ok, but that's not what you're doing. You said it yourself:
    Original purpose was to be able to run 10k and improve my 5k pace by doing lower intensity longer runs. Running at a pace that i can hold a conversation.

    I tend to over do it, and was advised to do longer runs at a much lower intensity.

    I understand what you're saying, but 8 weeks to add only 1.2 miles to what i can already do (i can currently run 5 miles now)?

    Yes. I do tend to over do things, but i am also willing to make a commitment to keep the run days to a very low intensity (conversational) pace. And also commit to sticking to the plan, but it also has to be a challenge.

    I am more than willing to bet that you will get faster following your original plan. On top of that you'll get to the 10k and, like a lot of us keep saying, you need to learn how to not go full gas all the time. Eight weeks out of your life to help get yourself to a point of not pushing so hard all the time is really not a large chunk out of your life and will probably help you in the long run.

    Another way to think of this that might be more palatable is that you're doing something like base training. Your getting in the miles so that you can sustainably run faster and longer throughout the season. Note - this is the novice base training plan on Hal Higdon's website. If you look up the intermediate version, it would not be suitable for you, but the novice one would be.
    edited November 2018
  • OldAssDudeOldAssDude Posts: 1,364Member, Premium Member Posts: 1,364Member, Premium Member
    aokoye wrote: »
    OldAssDude wrote: »
    aokoye wrote: »
    OldAssDude wrote: »
    OldAssDude wrote: »
    I was looking at the different plans on the site and think this one may be better suited for me...

    https://halhigdon.com/training-programs/15k-10-mile-training/novice-15k-10-mile/

    I can already run 5 miles, so taking 8 weeks to add only 1.2 miles does not seem as productive. Adding 5 miles in 10 weeks seems like more of a challenge, and i feel like i could do it.

    22a4w1cfzd45.png

    Thoughts?

    What was the purpose of this whole thing again?

    Original purpose was to be able to run 10k and improve my 5k pace by doing lower intensity longer runs. Running at a pace that i can hold a conversation.

    I tend to over do it, and was advised to do longer runs at a much lower intensity.

    Honestly, taking into account a number of your posts in general, I think it would be good for you to stay the course and be patient. That, in and of itself, seems like it would be a challenge for you. You seem to have an all or nothing sort of mentality and I think that staying with the plan that is slower would be a good exercise in realizing that rushing into things is not always/is often not a good thing. If you were training for a 15k then ok, but that's not what you're doing. You said it yourself:
    Original purpose was to be able to run 10k and improve my 5k pace by doing lower intensity longer runs. Running at a pace that i can hold a conversation.

    I tend to over do it, and was advised to do longer runs at a much lower intensity.

    I understand what you're saying, but 8 weeks to add only 1.2 miles to what i can already do (i can currently run 5 miles now)?

    Yes. I do tend to over do things, but i am also willing to make a commitment to keep the run days to a very low intensity (conversational) pace. And also commit to sticking to the plan, but it also has to be a challenge.

    I am more than willing to bet that you will get faster following your original plan. On top of that you'll get to the 10k and, like a lot of us keep saying, you need to learn how to not go full gas all the time. Eight weeks out of your life to help get yourself to a point of not pushing so hard all the time is really not a large chunk out of your life and will probably help you in the long run.

    Another way to think of this that might be more palatable is that you're doing something like base training. Your getting in the miles so that you can sustainably run faster and longer throughout the season. Note - this is the novice base training plan on Hal Higdon's website. If you look up the intermediate version, it would not be suitable for you, but the novice one would be.

    I understand that the novice plan is better suited for me. I should not think about doing speed work until i can run 10 miles first. That link is exactly where i got the plan from. I just pasted it into a spreadsheet from the website.

    Here is the 10 mile plan from the website that i put on a spreadsheet...

    fsgubikyv6dq.png

    The only change i made was switching Saturday and Sunday because Saturdays would not be good for the long runs due to time constraints.

    If you look at the long run for week 6, it is a 6 mile run (so basically 10k). So only 2 weeks shorter than the 10k novice plan. So basically the 10 mile plan is like a shorter 10k plan that continues to 10 miles.

    Even if i have to stretch it out over more than 10 weeks is fine with me. Either way, i am still getting the longer slower miles in, and getting more of a challenge. To be honest, i could probably push myself to do 10k right now, but my intent is to do it right. But i still need a challenge at the same time.

    I added "RPE" columns and "actual" rows, so i can log my workouts as i go.

    I do understand that i have to tone it down, and i appreciate hour input.

    thanks,
  • aokoyeaokoye Posts: 1,368Member Member Posts: 1,368Member Member
    AnvilHead wrote: »
    As Mark Rippetoe would say, YNDTFP (You're Not Doing The <insert word of choice starting with 'f' here> Program).

    That's his response anytime somebody "does" his program, but chooses to take it upon themselves to modify it. Programs are written the way they are (by people who know what they're doing) for specific reasons. Frequency, Intensity and Volume for progression, Rest for adequate recovery.

    This. So many times this.
  • OldAssDudeOldAssDude Posts: 1,364Member, Premium Member Posts: 1,364Member, Premium Member
    OldAssDude wrote: »
    Please read information in the program before thinking that i am changing it.

    Here is what it says...

    Long Runs: The longest runs of the 10-week schedule are planned for Saturdays, since you probably have more time to do them on the weekends. If Saturday isn’t a convenient day for your long runs, feel free to do them on Sunday–or any other day of the week for that matter. Don’t run these long runs too hard. Keep them at a “conversational” pace; meaning, at a pace slow enough that you can converse with a running companion without getting too much out of breath.

    I switched the long run days to Sunday because Saturday is not good for me.

    The plan includes 5 days of easy activity. 3 running and 2 cross training - which includes things like waking and biking.

    You already nixed the 2 rest days because you think giving your body a chance to recover and rebuild (which is actually when you get stronger and is what allows you to work better the other days) is somehow a sign of weakness or something? Idk-I’m kind of a fan of getting stronger and being able to work effectively all the time so I’m not 100% sure what the issue is here, but you do seem vehemently opposed to rest days.

    Now you’ve changed one of the cross training days to speed work (FYI-“intervals of high intensity running on hilly terrain” counts as speed work).

    That’s not the program.

    You’re welcome to do whatever program you want to do. You can continue to go balls to the wall all day every day if that’s what makes you happy. Enjoy. I don’t mean that sarcastically. I mean that everyone should be following a plan that they jive with and that they enjoy doing.

    But just because you like it doesn’t mean it’s going to get you the results you want.

    If you want to see performance improvements (aka-get faster) you’ll want to follow the actual program.



    The 10 mile plan has 1 rest day, and yes i did nix the 1 day which i should not have.

    I never followed a plan before, but i want to commit to this, so cut me a little slack at least. :)
  • AnvilHeadAnvilHead Posts: 18,544Member Member Posts: 18,544Member Member
    OldAssDude wrote: »
    OldAssDude wrote: »
    Please read information in the program before thinking that i am changing it.

    Here is what it says...

    Long Runs: The longest runs of the 10-week schedule are planned for Saturdays, since you probably have more time to do them on the weekends. If Saturday isn’t a convenient day for your long runs, feel free to do them on Sunday–or any other day of the week for that matter. Don’t run these long runs too hard. Keep them at a “conversational” pace; meaning, at a pace slow enough that you can converse with a running companion without getting too much out of breath.

    I switched the long run days to Sunday because Saturday is not good for me.

    The plan includes 5 days of easy activity. 3 running and 2 cross training - which includes things like waking and biking.

    You already nixed the 2 rest days because you think giving your body a chance to recover and rebuild (which is actually when you get stronger and is what allows you to work better the other days) is somehow a sign of weakness or something? Idk-I’m kind of a fan of getting stronger and being able to work effectively all the time so I’m not 100% sure what the issue is here, but you do seem vehemently opposed to rest days.

    Now you’ve changed one of the cross training days to speed work (FYI-“intervals of high intensity running on hilly terrain” counts as speed work).

    That’s not the program.

    You’re welcome to do whatever program you want to do. You can continue to go balls to the wall all day every day if that’s what makes you happy. Enjoy. I don’t mean that sarcastically. I mean that everyone should be following a plan that they jive with and that they enjoy doing.

    But just because you like it doesn’t mean it’s going to get you the results you want.

    If you want to see performance improvements (aka-get faster) you’ll want to follow the actual program.



    The 10 mile plan has 1 rest day, and yes i did nix the 1 day which i should not have.

    I never followed a plan before, but i want to commit to this, so cut me a little slack at least. :)

    "not following a plan" =/= "following a plan".
  • aokoyeaokoye Posts: 1,368Member Member Posts: 1,368Member Member
    OldAssDude wrote: »
    OldAssDude wrote: »
    Please read information in the program before thinking that i am changing it.

    Here is what it says...

    Long Runs: The longest runs of the 10-week schedule are planned for Saturdays, since you probably have more time to do them on the weekends. If Saturday isn’t a convenient day for your long runs, feel free to do them on Sunday–or any other day of the week for that matter. Don’t run these long runs too hard. Keep them at a “conversational” pace; meaning, at a pace slow enough that you can converse with a running companion without getting too much out of breath.

    I switched the long run days to Sunday because Saturday is not good for me.

    The plan includes 5 days of easy activity. 3 running and 2 cross training - which includes things like waking and biking.

    You already nixed the 2 rest days because you think giving your body a chance to recover and rebuild (which is actually when you get stronger and is what allows you to work better the other days) is somehow a sign of weakness or something? Idk-I’m kind of a fan of getting stronger and being able to work effectively all the time so I’m not 100% sure what the issue is here, but you do seem vehemently opposed to rest days.

    Now you’ve changed one of the cross training days to speed work (FYI-“intervals of high intensity running on hilly terrain” counts as speed work).

    That’s not the program.

    You’re welcome to do whatever program you want to do. You can continue to go balls to the wall all day every day if that’s what makes you happy. Enjoy. I don’t mean that sarcastically. I mean that everyone should be following a plan that they jive with and that they enjoy doing.

    But just because you like it doesn’t mean it’s going to get you the results you want.

    If you want to see performance improvements (aka-get faster) you’ll want to follow the actual program.



    The 10 mile plan has 1 rest day, and yes i did nix the 1 day which i should not have.

    I never followed a plan before, but i want to commit to this, so cut me a little slack at least. :)

    If you want to follow this plan and commit to it then you need to actually follow it. Switching day of the long run is not what I think any of us are talking about here. We're talking about cutting the rest day, not following the plan's advice with relation to cross training, etc. None of us are being especially judgmental, we're calling it as it is. You're not following the plan you said you'd follow (nor are you following the plan you decided to switch to).

    You clearly decided to just go with the 15k plan so let's take a look at what Higdon says about things like "Strength & Stretch" and cross training days.
    Mondays are the days in which I advise you to do some stretching along with some strength training. This is actually a day of rest following your weekend long run. Do some easy stretching of your running muscles.
    And cross-training...
    What cross-training you select depends on your personal preference. But don’t make the mistake of cross-training too vigorously. Cross-training days should be considered easy days that allow you to recover from the running you do the rest of the week.

    One piece of advice before following a plan (or baking a cake or putting together an IKEA bookshelf). Read all of the instructions before you do the plan. Make sure you understand what the plan is saying so that you can actually follow the plan.
  • aokoyeaokoye Posts: 1,368Member Member Posts: 1,368Member Member
    OldAssDude wrote: »

    Lessons learned...

    STICK WITH THE FREAKIN PLAN KNUCKLE HEAD!!!

    Yes. I probably do have the "boot camp" mentality from the 6 years i spent in the army. I was always in combat units and we did PT every week day, but you are right @AnvilHead , it was not like it was in boot camp.

    Thank you all for correcting me, and i will try to do better this coming week.

    :)
    Not that you need my praise, but if you stick to week two you will totally get a congratulations from me. Like I think I've said, or at the very least implied, the hidden lesson in this for you is learning how to be patient. You're learning how to train smarter, not harder.

    Good luck.
  • OldAssDudeOldAssDude Posts: 1,364Member, Premium Member Posts: 1,364Member, Premium Member
    Week 2 so far...

    awob5jtlsp8n.png

    Things i have noticed...

    My garmin is showing that my fitness is declining. My VO2max has gone from 37 to 33, and my performance condition has gone from "improving" to "detraining".

    I am going to assume that it is because of the decrease in intensity and pace of my runs combined with doing less overall. I am also assuming that that will begin to improve over the course of the program.

    Would this be a safe assumption?

    I also have a request...

    I noticed that on some of the other plans, Wednesdays give a choice or doing a short run or cross training.

    Can i substitute as shown below?

    oz5t1gcz5jkj.png

    Given the low intensity of the runs, i feel like i could do more running.

    thanks,
  • TavistockToadTavistockToad Posts: 34,836Member Member Posts: 34,836Member Member
    OldAssDude wrote: »
    Week 2 so far...

    awob5jtlsp8n.png

    Things i have noticed...

    My garmin is showing that my fitness is declining. My VO2max has gone from 37 to 33, and my performance condition has gone from "improving" to "detraining".

    I am going to assume that it is because of the decrease in intensity and pace of my runs combined with doing less overall. I am also assuming that that will begin to improve over the course of the program.

    Would this be a safe assumption?

    I also have a request...

    I noticed that on some of the other plans, Wednesdays give a choice or doing a short run or cross training.

    Can i substitute as shown below?

    oz5t1gcz5jkj.png

    Given the low intensity of the runs, i feel like i could do more running.

    thanks,

    so you're wanting to change the plan again....?
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