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What commonly given MFP Forum advice do you personally disagree with?
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GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »"You have to lift heavy if you don't want to look like a skinnyfat noodle person."
I'm just an n=1, but personally, my legs and butt look a million times better now that I'm just running and cycling than they ever did when I was trying a squat/deadlift type program. I have the quads and glutes I always wanted and was never able to achieve before. Strong Curves had nothing on my cycle commute. Even my abs are better now than when I followed a lifting program.
If people want to lift weights I think that's great (my husband does it exclusively and thinks cardio is evil, and he looks very fit and can certainly lift stuff I can't, even if he can't run a couple miles to save his life), but constantly crapping all over people who like cardio is kinda sucky and trying to deter people from running or whatever in favour of lifting is nonsensical to me. I like to run, I like to bike, and I get the results I want from it, and I'm sure I'm not the only one. Exercise is important and I think there's a place for strength training AND cardio, and the best workout routine is one you enjoy and will stick to.
As a corollary to this, I'll add that I sort of disagree with the idea that the only effective type of lifting is "heavy" lifting.
I should add the caveat that I *can't* lift heavy due to exertion induced migraines, but I can train with progressive overload by adding reps and sets to moderate weights and still get results.
Furthermore, the larger point is that not everyone has goals that can only be met by lifting heavy. Many people have goals that can be met with other sorts of resistance training.
I do have to say that I think the advice to lift heavy has cooled down a bit from where it used to be. I just wish there were more balanced advice offered in general to give people who don't want to or can't lift heavy other options. Or at least that such advice was given more often. I have to say I have seen it given more often than it used to be.
There's a lot of dogma and persistent broscience surrounding lifting. "Heavy is better than light", "free weights are better than machines", "the Smith machine is evil and will snap your *kitten* up", "compound exercises are the best", "you have to do squats", etc..
When you spend some time reading research and the evidence-based findings of true fitness professionals, you learn that the answers are a lot more nuanced and contextual (and a lot less black and white) than opinions such as the above.
Ha. I was just going to say that I disagree with the broad statement that free weights are better than machines. Completely dependent on the person and the goals. My mom is going to go to the gym by herself and I know that she won't use free weights by herself. She will use machines. Resistance exercise is important so I'd rather her use machines than nothing.
"Abs are made in the kitchen." No, they're not. Abs are muscles. Muscles are built via resistance work.
"Toned/toning isn't a real thing." Sure it is. It's a term that has been used for decades and considering the context in which it is generally used, it's fairly easy to figure out its meaning. If you're still confused, ask the poster to post an example of what they're talking about.
More generally, the "dispute the terminology, don't help the OP" form of advice is unhelpful: Toning, HIIT, "vegetarian but eating fish", "plant based" "eating clean", etc.
It doesn't bother me when someone answers and clarifies terminology, and it's OK to ask questions (even though OPs sometimes take that as negative) but just taking shots at the terminology is annoying, and I think creates a culture that can feel like the cool kids beating up on lower status new kids.
Most of the time, one can take a decent guess. "Most people seem to mean X by toning. If that's what you mean, then ABCD. 'Toning' doesn't have a clear definition; a better term would be Y."
If all someone has to say in reply to "I'm eating clean, but can't lose weight" is "I wash my food", they're being one of the snarky kids in the back of the classroom shooting spitballs. JMO, obviously.27 -
Advice that assumes weight loss varies directly with intake, ignoring activity. It's not always going to be the case that if someone cuts an additional 500 calories daily, they automatically and unconditionally lose an extra pound a week.
Intake has impact on energy level, which can have an effect on activity level - from reading posts here, I suspect some people are more sensitive to this effect than others, and that for some there may be an inflection point in intake where a more pronounced energy/activity change happens.
If eating 500 calories fewer daily reduces someone from an average life style to a limp lump of fatigue on the couch, who zaps a Lean Cuisine and goes to bed early, they're not going to lose an extra pound a week.
Yes, I exaggerate . . . but CICO really isn't just math about intake, it's math about intake and activity, and the CO side has some nuance in practice.23 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »"You have to lift heavy if you don't want to look like a skinnyfat noodle person."
I'm just an n=1, but personally, my legs and butt look a million times better now that I'm just running and cycling than they ever did when I was trying a squat/deadlift type program. I have the quads and glutes I always wanted and was never able to achieve before. Strong Curves had nothing on my cycle commute. Even my abs are better now than when I followed a lifting program.
If people want to lift weights I think that's great (my husband does it exclusively and thinks cardio is evil, and he looks very fit and can certainly lift stuff I can't, even if he can't run a couple miles to save his life), but constantly crapping all over people who like cardio is kinda sucky and trying to deter people from running or whatever in favour of lifting is nonsensical to me. I like to run, I like to bike, and I get the results I want from it, and I'm sure I'm not the only one. Exercise is important and I think there's a place for strength training AND cardio, and the best workout routine is one you enjoy and will stick to.
As a corollary to this, I'll add that I sort of disagree with the idea that the only effective type of lifting is "heavy" lifting.
I should add the caveat that I *can't* lift heavy due to exertion induced migraines, but I can train with progressive overload by adding reps and sets to moderate weights and still get results.
Furthermore, the larger point is that not everyone has goals that can only be met by lifting heavy. Many people have goals that can be met with other sorts of resistance training.
I do have to say that I think the advice to lift heavy has cooled down a bit from where it used to be. I just wish there were more balanced advice offered in general to give people who don't want to or can't lift heavy other options. Or at least that such advice was given more often. I have to say I have seen it given more often than it used to be.
There's a lot of dogma and persistent broscience surrounding lifting. "Heavy is better than light", "free weights are better than machines", "the Smith machine is evil and will snap your *kitten* up", "compound exercises are the best", "you have to do squats", etc..
When you spend some time reading research and the evidence-based findings of true fitness professionals, you learn that the answers are a lot more nuanced and contextual (and a lot less black and white) than opinions such as the above.
Ha. I was just going to say that I disagree with the broad statement that free weights are better than machines. Completely dependent on the person and the goals. My mom is going to go to the gym by herself and I know that she won't use free weights by herself. She will use machines. Resistance exercise is important so I'd rather her use machines than nothing.
"Abs are made in the kitchen." No, they're not. Abs are muscles. Muscles are built via resistance work.
"Toned/toning isn't a real thing." Sure it is. It's a term that has been used for decades and considering the context in which it is generally used, it's fairly easy to figure out its meaning. If you're still confused, ask the poster to post an example of what they're talking about.
I agree on the machines, especially for seniors. Heck, even Lyle agrees with you.6 -
"Toned/toning isn't a real thing." Sure it is. It's a term that has been used for decades and considering the context in which it is generally used, it's fairly easy to figure out its meaning. If you're still confused, ask the poster to post an example of what they're talking about.
I posted once as a joke for someone to explain the difference between "toning", "getting fit" and "recomp". To me they are all pretty much the same thing, but recomp just is an in phrase right now.
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"Toned/toning isn't a real thing." Sure it is. It's a term that has been used for decades and considering the context in which it is generally used, it's fairly easy to figure out its meaning. If you're still confused, ask the poster to post an example of what they're talking about.
Thank you. That has been a pet peeve of mine for a long time. If you have a problem with toning, you better also have a problem with bulking, cutting, and getting ripped.16 -
Am I the only one who finds the title of this thread to be rather passive-aggressive?
For me its when people start giving medical advice or diagnosing others.
I think I was following the thread that gave rise to this comment (though I think it's since been deleted), and I remember wondering why a person would think that about that particular thread. I've seen threads where people express concerns that a poster may have disordered thinking about food (and with so many impressionable young people lurking on the site, I think that's a good thing), and others where people have asked something like, "what do you think might be causing this?", but even in those instances, people are usually cautioned to ask their doctor.9 -
I've seen threads semi-regularly where people gave medical advice (sometimes with bashing of the evil corporate medical establishment along the way. . . some thyroid threads: ugh). Normally someone else pretty quickly says "See your doctor; don't listen to random unqualified idiots on the internet."
I've also seen people chided (appropriately) for giving what amounted to medical advice without seeing it as such, for example by answering questions like "What exercises can I do if I have knee pain?".
Not to mention the infamous tendency for a few people - always bashed for it, and rightly so - to give magical dietary advice to cancer survivors. Mega ugh.
I'd say inappropriate medical advice happens here fairly often, but doesn't often go undisputed.Am I the only one who finds the title of this thread to be rather passive-aggressive?
<snip>
Got us yapping, dinnit? 8 -
I've seen threads semi-regularly where people gave medical advice (sometimes with bashing of the evil corporate medical establishment along the way. . . some thyroid threads: ugh). Normally someone else pretty quickly says "See your doctor; don't listen to random unqualified idiots on the internet."
I've also seen people chided (appropriately) for giving what amounted to medical advice without seeing it as such, for example by answering questions like "What exercises can I do if I have knee pain?".
Not to mention the infamous tendency for a few people - always bashed for it, and rightly so - to give magical dietary advice to cancer survivors. Mega ugh.
I'd say inappropriate medical advice happens here fairly often, but doesn't often go undisputed.
I see a little bit of that, but guess I just don't get around enough... not a terrible thing
I also took the point of the tread to be more like, what advice espoused by the majority do you disagree with (though I could be mistaken). I think most experienced users don't tend to give medical advice, or deal in absolutes, as many comments have alluded to. But again, I don't know everything that goes on around here 1 -
Now that we are into page 4... I think the general consensus is that the most prevalent advice tends to be pretty sound. We have since strayed a bit from that and gotten into terminology or behavior (for lack of a better term) that may bother some of us.8
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GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »"You have to lift heavy if you don't want to look like a skinnyfat noodle person."
I'm just an n=1, but personally, my legs and butt look a million times better now that I'm just running and cycling than they ever did when I was trying a squat/deadlift type program. I have the quads and glutes I always wanted and was never able to achieve before. Strong Curves had nothing on my cycle commute. Even my abs are better now than when I followed a lifting program.
If people want to lift weights I think that's great (my husband does it exclusively and thinks cardio is evil, and he looks very fit and can certainly lift stuff I can't, even if he can't run a couple miles to save his life), but constantly crapping all over people who like cardio is kinda sucky and trying to deter people from running or whatever in favour of lifting is nonsensical to me. I like to run, I like to bike, and I get the results I want from it, and I'm sure I'm not the only one. Exercise is important and I think there's a place for strength training AND cardio, and the best workout routine is one you enjoy and will stick to.
As a corollary to this, I'll add that I sort of disagree with the idea that the only effective type of lifting is "heavy" lifting.
I should add the caveat that I *can't* lift heavy due to exertion induced migraines, but I can train with progressive overload by adding reps and sets to moderate weights and still get results.
Furthermore, the larger point is that not everyone has goals that can only be met by lifting heavy. Many people have goals that can be met with other sorts of resistance training.
I do have to say that I think the advice to lift heavy has cooled down a bit from where it used to be. I just wish there were more balanced advice offered in general to give people who don't want to or can't lift heavy other options. Or at least that such advice was given more often. I have to say I have seen it given more often than it used to be.
There's a lot of dogma and persistent broscience surrounding lifting. "Heavy is better than light", "free weights are better than machines", "the Smith machine is evil and will snap your *kitten* up", "compound exercises are the best", "you have to do squats", etc..
When you spend some time reading research and the evidence-based findings of true fitness professionals, you learn that the answers are a lot more nuanced and contextual (and a lot less black and white) than opinions such as the above.
Ha. I was just going to say that I disagree with the broad statement that free weights are better than machines. Completely dependent on the person and the goals. My mom is going to go to the gym by herself and I know that she won't use free weights by herself. She will use machines. Resistance exercise is important so I'd rather her use machines than nothing.
"Abs are made in the kitchen." No, they're not. Abs are muscles. Muscles are built via resistance work.
"Toned/toning isn't a real thing." Sure it is. It's a term that has been used for decades and considering the context in which it is generally used, it's fairly easy to figure out its meaning. If you're still confused, ask the poster to post an example of what they're talking about.
More generally, the "dispute the terminology, don't help the OP" form of advice is unhelpful: Toning, HIIT, "vegetarian but eating fish", "plant based" "eating clean", etc.
It doesn't bother me when someone answers and clarifies terminology, and it's OK to ask questions (even though OPs sometimes take that as negative) but just taking shots at the terminology is annoying, and I think creates a culture that can feel like the cool kids beating up on lower status new kids.
I'm someone who thinks that terminology can be important and if the OP uses buzzwords that have unclear meaning that it basically obscures communication. However, I definitely agree that JUST challenging/disputing terminology is useless. But asking questions or noting the lack of clarity with the buzzwords is, IMO, worth doing while responding as best you can and for the purpose of better responding to the question.
HIIT is a specific thing, so using the term to mean something entirely different is confusing, for example.
I find discussions more focused on terminology itself interesting (what is "plant-based" vs. vegan or what not), but those discussions don't belong in an advice thread.6 -
Tacklewasher wrote: »"Toned/toning isn't a real thing." Sure it is. It's a term that has been used for decades and considering the context in which it is generally used, it's fairly easy to figure out its meaning. If you're still confused, ask the poster to post an example of what they're talking about.
I posted once as a joke for someone to explain the difference between "toning", "getting fit" and "recomp". To me they are all pretty much the same thing, but recomp just is an in phrase right now.
Why "toning" rubs some people (often women) the wrong way (although not really me, and I never comment on it) is that you tend to hear it as follows: I don't want to do any exercise that builds muscle, ugh, I don't want to get bulky or be all muscle-y like [insert very lean woman with muscles], I just want to tone.
Thing is that there's no specific "toning" exercises, it is the same as getting fit or recomp.
Often "toning" just means "I want to be thinner and to look nice, not to have especially big muscles, but also not to look bony." And fact is, a woman at a deficit who does some progressive overload exercise (including training involving running and biking and some upper body stuff, including swimming), is going to achieve this, since it's just not that easy to build muscle as a woman and you aren't doing it to any "beyond toned" extent without trying, especially in a deficit.12 -
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MFP would have it no other way, lol.1 -
I believe semantics are important to meaningful communication, and like lemurcat2, I enjoy discussions about terminology. Some of the most enlightening (not to mention entertaining) threads on this site involve the definition of words.5
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SuzySunshine99 wrote: »I guess the only commonly given advice that I "sort of" disagree with comes up in the threads where people ask "I'm going out to dinner, how do I limit my calories?".
Many long-time posters say "It's only one meal, just enjoy yourself."
While, yes, that's true, in the long run one meal won't make or break you...I think it might set some people up for failure.
If you don't eat out much and/or it's a special occasion, sure, order what you like. But some people eat out multiple times a week. I know that if I did that and "just enjoyed myself" each time, it would be a struggle to control my weight.
I agree with this, especially because it seems to be advice given by people who truly do go out (and indulge freely) like once every six to eight weeks, not every 3-4 days like a lot of people do simply due to business, social, etc. It's just *not* realistic for everyone to only dine out a few times per year and "just enjoy", it's helpful to have a game plan.9 -
I feel like I’m gonna get eaten alive for this one but I really cringe when I see others getting jumped on about CICO being the end all be all of losing weight. I remember reading a thread where someone talked about being on steroids for a chronic condition (May have been RA) and being concerned about weight gain and of course someone jumped in to condescend to them about how CICO is the only thing that mattered and that they didn’t gain weight on steroids and therefore if you do it’s a lack of willpower, etc etc etc.
Many people dealing with chronic health conditions are facing some serious barriers to weight loss that have more to do with managing pain and fatigue and hormones and whatever else. I’m an endometriosis survivor and the damn disease caused cancer and all sorts of other problems. Once I had extensive excision surgery and a hysterectomy with my ovaries removed my health has significantly improved and I’ve lost 46 lbs with not a lot of difficulty. Before that i couldn’t do much more than curling up in a ball with a heating pad on. If i did go to the gym it would literally be like 7 days of recovering from one work out in extreme pain. What I’m saying is yes, CICO is extremely important but there is more to losing weight than that simple equation for many people and it used to hit me hard when I would read threads about it only being a willpower CICO thing.
(I’ve been a lurker for years and really don’t post a lot)34 -
That brings up an interesting point. I am a moderator, but that doesn't give me leave to feel morally superior to someone who is an abstainer. Alternately, my daily chocolate habit doesn't mean I'm weaker than someone who hasn't had a chocolate bar since Doc Martens were cool.
WUT,
are they not cool?13 -
Calories in calories out.25
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Saying CICO is what matters for weightloss is NOT the same thing as saying it's just willpower or that if you don't do it it's a willpower issue. I really haven't seen a lot of people saying the latter, so don't think that's "commonly given advice" but I'm sure some people have said it from time to time, as you can find some people saying anything.
On steroids: "Steroids affect your metabolism and how your body deposits fat. This can increase your appetite, leading to weight gain, and in particular lead to extra deposits of fat in your abdomen.
Self-care tips:
Watch your calories and exercise regularly to try to prevent excessive weight gain. But don't let weight gain damage your self-esteem. Know that the weight will come off - and your stomach return to its normal size - relatively easily in the six months to a year after you discontinue steroids."
https://www.hss.edu/conditions_steroid-side-effects-how-to-reduce-corticosteroid-side-effects.asp
So that does NOT say that CICO would not work for someone taking steroids, quite the opposite.
That said, what I would say, and what I think of as the "commonly-given MFP advice" is that in some cases a health condition may need to be resolved before weight loss becomes the focus. Someone with a thyroid condition, for example, probably should focus most on getting the condition under control, meds straightened out, if losing weight is an exercise in frustration.
I think it's a misunderstanding to read the factual statement that CICO are what determine weight loss, gain, or neither to say something about the mental powers of any particular person. There are lots of reasons why weight loss may be extremely hard at a particular time.23 -
I'll add blind following of advice/information because it came from an institution. Institutions have a poor track record of following evidence and allowing other motivations to influence policy.
Show me the data.4
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