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What commonly given MFP Forum advice do you personally disagree with?
Replies
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Not a specific piece of advice, but offering advice without understanding fully the issue at hand is a common problem. Where the person is in the process, what their bodyfat % is, etc. are all critical pieces of information, which leads to much of the misinformation and really bad advice at times.
On the flip side, sometimes it's VERY difficult to drag that information out of the question-asker.
Often the person doesn't know what questions to ask and gets frustrated when they don't get an answer, so it ends up in mutual frustration.
The thread I was reading right before this had someone ask the OP for their stats, followed by the OP asking what they mean by stats. Frustrating for everyone, that's the MFP way!5 -
Not a specific piece of advice, but offering advice without understanding fully the issue at hand is a common problem. Where the person is in the process, what their bodyfat % is, etc. are all critical pieces of information, which leads to much of the misinformation and really bad advice at times.
On the flip side, sometimes it's VERY difficult to drag that information out of the question-asker.
Often the person doesn't know what questions to ask and gets frustrated when they don't get an answer, so it ends up in mutual frustration.
The thread I was reading right before this had someone ask the OP for their stats, followed by the OP asking what they mean by stats. Frustrating for everyone, that's the MFP way!
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Not a specific piece of advice, but offering advice without understanding fully the issue at hand is a common problem. Where the person is in the process, what their bodyfat % is, etc. are all critical pieces of information, which leads to much of the misinformation and really bad advice at times.
The one that is kinda getting to me lately is offering advice to raise/lower calories based on the MFP numbers without asking how their weight loss is going. So if someone says they are eating 1200, kinda more important to see if they are losing as expected then determine if they need to eat more.10 -
Tacklewasher wrote: »Not a specific piece of advice, but offering advice without understanding fully the issue at hand is a common problem. Where the person is in the process, what their bodyfat % is, etc. are all critical pieces of information, which leads to much of the misinformation and really bad advice at times.
The one that is kinda getting to me lately is offering advice to raise/lower calories based on the MFP numbers without asking how their weight loss is going. So if someone says they are eating 1200, kinda more important to see if they are losing as expected then determine if they need to eat more.
Actually, it's more important to first see if they're even tracking/logging accurately in the first place. Most people who think they're eating 1200 calories and not losing aren't eating anywhere near 1200 calories.17 -
Tacklewasher wrote: »Not a specific piece of advice, but offering advice without understanding fully the issue at hand is a common problem. Where the person is in the process, what their bodyfat % is, etc. are all critical pieces of information, which leads to much of the misinformation and really bad advice at times.
The one that is kinda getting to me lately is offering advice to raise/lower calories based on the MFP numbers without asking how their weight loss is going. So if someone says they are eating 1200, kinda more important to see if they are losing as expected then determine if they need to eat more.
Actually, it's more important to first see if they're even tracking/logging accurately in the first place. Most people who think they're eating 1200 calories and not losing aren't eating anywhere near 1200 calories.
My point is that we don't know if they are losing or not. It's different if they come asking why they are not losing, but I've seen a bunch where they don't say if they are or aren't, and it turns out they are losing fine.4 -
What comes to mind is a new poster 2 weeks ago who wrote in that he couldn't believe people on MFP were "starving themselves" with 1200 calories a day. It was satisfying to see him get his comeuppance from several petite women who manage just fine on 1200 calories. I'm not petite, but if I want to lose 2-3 pounds in a week, then I need to be close to the 1200 calorie mark myself.16
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nutmegoreo wrote: »
Probably, but then I would have been woo'd into oblivion for mine!
I personally think calorie counting can go too far sometimes. It's silly to advise someone to weigh their banana at home, bring it to work and eat it, and then bring the banana peel back home to weigh it. Weighing the banana and just making a reasonable estimate of the peel weight based on previous bananas makes more sense to me. 17 -
Copper_Boom wrote: »nutmegoreo wrote: »
Probably, but then I would have been woo'd into oblivion for mine! I personally think calorie counting can go too far sometimes. It's silly to advise someone to weigh their banana at home, bring it to work and eat it, and then bring the banana peel back home to weigh it. Weighing the banana and just making a reasonable estimate of the peel weight based on previous bananas makes more sense to me.
I get it for small people with a very limited calorie deficit, but in general I agree with you. I have a banana for breakfast. That's how I log it. Same with my lunch snap peas and carrots. I log a damn serving. These are not the items I have issues with and I'm close enough.10 -
"You have to lift heavy if you don't want to look like a skinnyfat noodle person."
I'm just an n=1, but personally, my legs and butt look a million times better now that I'm just running and cycling than they ever did when I was trying a squat/deadlift type program. I have the quads and glutes I always wanted and was never able to achieve before. Strong Curves had nothing on my cycle commute. Even my abs are better now than when I followed a lifting program.
If people want to lift weights I think that's great (my husband does it exclusively and thinks cardio is evil, and he looks very fit and can certainly lift stuff I can't, even if he can't run a couple miles to save his life), but constantly crapping all over people who like cardio is kinda sucky and trying to deter people from running or whatever in favour of lifting is nonsensical to me. I like to run, I like to bike, and I get the results I want from it, and I'm sure I'm not the only one. Exercise is important and I think there's a place for strength training AND cardio, and the best workout routine is one you enjoy and will stick to.
As a corollary to this, I'll add that I sort of disagree with the idea that the only effective type of lifting is "heavy" lifting.
I should add the caveat that I *can't* lift heavy due to exertion induced migraines, but I can train with progressive overload by adding reps and sets to moderate weights and still get results.
Furthermore, the larger point is that not everyone has goals that can only be met by lifting heavy. Many people have goals that can be met with other sorts of resistance training.
I do have to say that I think the advice to lift heavy has cooled down a bit from where it used to be. I just wish there were more balanced advice offered in general to give people who don't want to or can't lift heavy other options. Or at least that such advice was given more often. I have to say I have seen it given more often than it used to be.19 -
cmriverside wrote: »nutmegoreo wrote: »Copper_Boom wrote: »Nutrition/fitness/weight loss.
I think you're supposed to answer first.
I see a lot of people staunchly defending certain things as 'the one true way of eating that works for everyone' (TM). I think that most long-timers would agree that each of us need to find what works for us in regards to eating schedule, macro breakdown, etc. Not being too rigid, or trying to change your diet and lifestyle to the point that it's unsustainable. It's funny how heated some of these discussions can get around diet and exercise.
I've never seen moderation become such a hotly contested topic in any other setting than this.
Yeah.
Taking the chance of starting WWIII, but I agree with this...
Some people are moderators with some foods and some just aren't.
If you are - well, good for you.
Maybe step out of the discussions with people who aren't.
Not everyone is the same on this.
I also think the moderator/abstainer thing may be overstated (even Gretchen Rubin has a more complex breakdown she likes now).
Very likely many or most people are moderators on some things or at some times and abstainers on others.
Sometimes people may not be moderators under some circumstances (i.e., can't have it at home, or can't eat it out of a large package), but could be about others -- I'll have it on holiday, I'll have it outside the house.
At one time I thought I could not moderate certain foods and had to have a restrictive diet or regularly overeat. I eventually realized that if I put structure around it I could moderate more broadly (although with some things it's easier to just abstain). I would say that exploring the specific experiences and nuance can be helpful.
I definitely agree that it is much more nuanced. It's not black/white that you're either a moderator or abstainer. There are plenty of shades of gray. I am most definitely gray.3 -
Copper_Boom wrote: »nutmegoreo wrote: »
Probably, but then I would have been woo'd into oblivion for mine! I personally think calorie counting can go too far sometimes. It's silly to advise someone to weigh their banana at home, bring it to work and eat it, and then bring the banana peel back home to weigh it. Weighing the banana and just making a reasonable estimate of the peel weight based on previous bananas makes more sense to me.
For the average person who isn't having trouble losing, I would agree. I think that advice tends to be given to people who are saying they can't lose weight, but have huge holes in their logging.4 -
Simple yes or no answers, no elaboration/detail, taking information out of context, not explaining rationale, overgeneralizing answers/not catering to the individual (absolutes/black or white vs. gray), overlooking behavior/psychology, omission of data/detail, ignoring physics, anecdote over evidence, misinterpretation of "credible" studies, Expert opinion of the all-knowing Dr. Google, etc. Overall, just lack of thought that goes into posts9
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"You have to lift heavy if you don't want to look like a skinnyfat noodle person."
I'm just an n=1, but personally, my legs and butt look a million times better now that I'm just running and cycling than they ever did when I was trying a squat/deadlift type program. I have the quads and glutes I always wanted and was never able to achieve before. Strong Curves had nothing on my cycle commute. Even my abs are better now than when I followed a lifting program.
If people want to lift weights I think that's great (my husband does it exclusively and thinks cardio is evil, and he looks very fit and can certainly lift stuff I can't, even if he can't run a couple miles to save his life), but constantly crapping all over people who like cardio is kinda sucky and trying to deter people from running or whatever in favour of lifting is nonsensical to me. I like to run, I like to bike, and I get the results I want from it, and I'm sure I'm not the only one. Exercise is important and I think there's a place for strength training AND cardio, and the best workout routine is one you enjoy and will stick to.
One more time for the people in the back.
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Keto_Vampire wrote: »Simple yes or no answers, no elaboration/detail, taking information out of context, not explaining rationale, overgeneralizing answers/not catering to the individual (absolutes/black or white vs. gray), overlooking behavior/psychology, omission of data/detail, ignoring physics, anecdote over evidence, misinterpretation of "credible" studies, Expert opinion of the all-knowing Dr. Google, etc. Overall, just lack of thought that goes into posts
And don't forget "Do your own research" Translation: I have no evidence. I'll just send you away so you won't call me on it.11 -
For me its when people start giving medical advice or diagnosing others.9
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nutmegoreo wrote: »
Emphasis, expressing concerns. I have seen this over and over again, makes me itchy5 -
People talking about how much they love peanut butter is pretty gross.9
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It's not a specific piece of advice, but it kind of bugs me when people talk about cardio as if it were all one undifferentiated thing, regardless of exercise modality.
Different forms of exercise place different demands on the body. If there's consistent practice over time, the body responds to those demands. Different forms of "cardio" involve different demands.
Most of them make demands on more than the cardiovascular system. For example, a total beginner who starts cycling regularly is going to develop some leg strength, and (other conditions met - protein, fuel, progressive stress, etc.) eventually add leg muscle . . . not as rapidly as with weight training, but it will happen.
"Cardio" is not all one thing.
Here also, I think most of the MFP old hands understand and reflect this, but it does get shorthanded in some threads in a way that can limit insight/understanding.
The myths ("cardio burns up muscles" without qualification) are a whole 'nother matter.
There's lots of dumb advice (telling beginners to do HIIT for maximum weight loss effectiveness; universal prescriptions to "cut carbs", "eliminate sugar", "eat clean", etc.), but a lot of that seems to come from starry-eyed near-beginners who've read too many lame diet/fitness blogs and are evangelists for what's helped them lose their first 5-10 pounds. Most people do tend to think other people are just like them, or should be . . . but that would be boring.
I can attest to this. I've been a cyclist all my life, for two decades or more before I started lifting. I've always had trouble with pants, if the legs fit the waist is too big.4 -
nutmegoreo wrote: »
There's also a big difference between diagnosing someone and correlating things that normally go hand in hand and/or things that usually happen when people do other things.8 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »"You have to lift heavy if you don't want to look like a skinnyfat noodle person."
I'm just an n=1, but personally, my legs and butt look a million times better now that I'm just running and cycling than they ever did when I was trying a squat/deadlift type program. I have the quads and glutes I always wanted and was never able to achieve before. Strong Curves had nothing on my cycle commute. Even my abs are better now than when I followed a lifting program.
If people want to lift weights I think that's great (my husband does it exclusively and thinks cardio is evil, and he looks very fit and can certainly lift stuff I can't, even if he can't run a couple miles to save his life), but constantly crapping all over people who like cardio is kinda sucky and trying to deter people from running or whatever in favour of lifting is nonsensical to me. I like to run, I like to bike, and I get the results I want from it, and I'm sure I'm not the only one. Exercise is important and I think there's a place for strength training AND cardio, and the best workout routine is one you enjoy and will stick to.
As a corollary to this, I'll add that I sort of disagree with the idea that the only effective type of lifting is "heavy" lifting.
I should add the caveat that I *can't* lift heavy due to exertion induced migraines, but I can train with progressive overload by adding reps and sets to moderate weights and still get results.
Furthermore, the larger point is that not everyone has goals that can only be met by lifting heavy. Many people have goals that can be met with other sorts of resistance training.
I do have to say that I think the advice to lift heavy has cooled down a bit from where it used to be. I just wish there were more balanced advice offered in general to give people who don't want to or can't lift heavy other options. Or at least that such advice was given more often. I have to say I have seen it given more often than it used to be.
There's a lot of dogma and persistent broscience surrounding lifting. "Heavy is better than light", "free weights are better than machines", "the Smith machine is evil and will snap your *kitten* up", "compound exercises are the best", "you have to do squats", etc..
When you spend some time reading research and the evidence-based findings of true fitness professionals, you learn that the answers are a lot more nuanced and contextual (and a lot less black and white) than opinions such as the above.12 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »"You have to lift heavy if you don't want to look like a skinnyfat noodle person."
I'm just an n=1, but personally, my legs and butt look a million times better now that I'm just running and cycling than they ever did when I was trying a squat/deadlift type program. I have the quads and glutes I always wanted and was never able to achieve before. Strong Curves had nothing on my cycle commute. Even my abs are better now than when I followed a lifting program.
If people want to lift weights I think that's great (my husband does it exclusively and thinks cardio is evil, and he looks very fit and can certainly lift stuff I can't, even if he can't run a couple miles to save his life), but constantly crapping all over people who like cardio is kinda sucky and trying to deter people from running or whatever in favour of lifting is nonsensical to me. I like to run, I like to bike, and I get the results I want from it, and I'm sure I'm not the only one. Exercise is important and I think there's a place for strength training AND cardio, and the best workout routine is one you enjoy and will stick to.
As a corollary to this, I'll add that I sort of disagree with the idea that the only effective type of lifting is "heavy" lifting.
I should add the caveat that I *can't* lift heavy due to exertion induced migraines, but I can train with progressive overload by adding reps and sets to moderate weights and still get results.
Furthermore, the larger point is that not everyone has goals that can only be met by lifting heavy. Many people have goals that can be met with other sorts of resistance training.
I do have to say that I think the advice to lift heavy has cooled down a bit from where it used to be. I just wish there were more balanced advice offered in general to give people who don't want to or can't lift heavy other options. Or at least that such advice was given more often. I have to say I have seen it given more often than it used to be.
I actually had a problem with exertion induced migrations when trying to lift heavy early in my weight loss process (in 2014), and was very upset. I ended up doing progressive overload, but did not stick to any of the most popular versions on MFP (which actually may not be anymore, but when I started it was stronglifts and ice cream fitness) and I've been focusing more on cardio than increasing my lifts, although I still maintain.
To me, the advice to heavy lift was still valuable -- even though I 100% agree with what you say -- because it was motivating that this was something ordinary people can do, including women, and that it counteracted the idea that lifting too much risked making you bulky, that women should focus on large numbers of reps of light weights or use weights in a more cardio manner (and not saying that can't work either, my sister's only exercise is workout videos with relatively light weights compared to what I do, and she's leaner than me and super fit, she just hates both gyms and running and loves circuit training at home).
As someone who hated the assumption about what women should do at the gym in my generation (I'm 48), which in my teens and early 20s was aerobics or dance-y stuff (which I hated!) and who liked the push to lifting at all, or even, LOL, step classes and spin, the idea that women should just "heavy lift" which I understood as progressive overload, once I got over the idea you needed to do a specific best program, was kind of freeing.
I still mostly run, bike, and swim (well, I plan to eventually get back to swimming) and lift to maintain my current muscle and fitness, and do pilates because it helps me recover from running, and am not increasing my lifts at all right now, but don't think that compromises how I look. I do want to increase my lifts, though, and will eventually focus on that, and am glad MFP opened my eyes to that with a group of women who do it, even though of course I don't think everyone needs to and agree at one point the advice en masse suggested otherwise.6 -
Tacklewasher wrote: »Not a specific piece of advice, but offering advice without understanding fully the issue at hand is a common problem. Where the person is in the process, what their bodyfat % is, etc. are all critical pieces of information, which leads to much of the misinformation and really bad advice at times.
The one that is kinda getting to me lately is offering advice to raise/lower calories based on the MFP numbers without asking how their weight loss is going. So if someone says they are eating 1200, kinda more important to see if they are losing as expected then determine if they need to eat more.
Actually, it's more important to first see if they're even tracking/logging accurately in the first place. Most people who think they're eating 1200 calories and not losing aren't eating anywhere near 1200 calories.
But the data on whether or not they're losing weight is going to be much better evidence of whether they're tracking accurately than just asking them whether weighing and logging everything, which typically yields a yes, only to find out three pages later in the thread that they're using volume measures for some things -- including peanut butter and oils -- and taking the word of pkg labels for things like sliced bread, and not bothering to log any of their veggies because "nobody gets fat from veggies." Or maybe when you pin them down on what they've actually lost, when they've complained they're stalling, it turns out they've been losing over a pound a week.11 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »"You have to lift heavy if you don't want to look like a skinnyfat noodle person."
I'm just an n=1, but personally, my legs and butt look a million times better now that I'm just running and cycling than they ever did when I was trying a squat/deadlift type program. I have the quads and glutes I always wanted and was never able to achieve before. Strong Curves had nothing on my cycle commute. Even my abs are better now than when I followed a lifting program.
If people want to lift weights I think that's great (my husband does it exclusively and thinks cardio is evil, and he looks very fit and can certainly lift stuff I can't, even if he can't run a couple miles to save his life), but constantly crapping all over people who like cardio is kinda sucky and trying to deter people from running or whatever in favour of lifting is nonsensical to me. I like to run, I like to bike, and I get the results I want from it, and I'm sure I'm not the only one. Exercise is important and I think there's a place for strength training AND cardio, and the best workout routine is one you enjoy and will stick to.
As a corollary to this, I'll add that I sort of disagree with the idea that the only effective type of lifting is "heavy" lifting.
I should add the caveat that I *can't* lift heavy due to exertion induced migraines, but I can train with progressive overload by adding reps and sets to moderate weights and still get results.
Furthermore, the larger point is that not everyone has goals that can only be met by lifting heavy. Many people have goals that can be met with other sorts of resistance training.
I do have to say that I think the advice to lift heavy has cooled down a bit from where it used to be. I just wish there were more balanced advice offered in general to give people who don't want to or can't lift heavy other options. Or at least that such advice was given more often. I have to say I have seen it given more often than it used to be.
There's a lot of dogma and persistent broscience surrounding lifting. "Heavy is better than light", "free weights are better than machines", "the Smith machine is evil and will snap your *kitten* up", "compound exercises are the best", "you have to do squats", etc..
When you spend some time reading research and the evidence-based findings of true fitness professionals, you learn that the answers are a lot more nuanced and contextual (and a lot less black and white) than opinions such as the above.
Thanks for adding this (and thanks to @lemurcat2 for your insights as well).
I was thinking yesterday when I was slinging around a canvas sack full of six two-liter bottles of diet soda (it was a goooood sale, people!) that back a few years ago, I couldn't have done that without hurting my back. I literally felt my core muscles engage to help handle the load when I lifted that bag into the car trunk and knew that what I've done has born fruit.
That's all I want. Muscles strong enough to support my arthritic joints and to have functional strength to do everyday tasks.16 -
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You aren't losing weight because you're not eating enough. Eat more and you'll start losing.
Horrible.
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The moderator/abstainer issue. Typically a newbie comes on and says something like "I want to do keto!" and the response is, "Eat everything you eat now, only less of it." That's not necessarily the most helpful advice for someone beginning a weight loss journey - it takes time to learn how to moderate favorite foods, and most of the people who say this are long time maintainers who over a long period of trial and error have gotten to the point where they naturally eat 80% healthy foods. It's very hard to eat a satisfying 1200 calorie a day diet of nothing but fried food and donuts, so if the newbie is someone who eats nothing but fried food and donuts, telling them to keep eating exactly the same but less is less than optimal.14
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Posters saying to not be concerned about intake of added sugars even though the WHO, USDA, American Heart Association etc all say their intake should be limited.27
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GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »"You have to lift heavy if you don't want to look like a skinnyfat noodle person."
I'm just an n=1, but personally, my legs and butt look a million times better now that I'm just running and cycling than they ever did when I was trying a squat/deadlift type program. I have the quads and glutes I always wanted and was never able to achieve before. Strong Curves had nothing on my cycle commute. Even my abs are better now than when I followed a lifting program.
If people want to lift weights I think that's great (my husband does it exclusively and thinks cardio is evil, and he looks very fit and can certainly lift stuff I can't, even if he can't run a couple miles to save his life), but constantly crapping all over people who like cardio is kinda sucky and trying to deter people from running or whatever in favour of lifting is nonsensical to me. I like to run, I like to bike, and I get the results I want from it, and I'm sure I'm not the only one. Exercise is important and I think there's a place for strength training AND cardio, and the best workout routine is one you enjoy and will stick to.
As a corollary to this, I'll add that I sort of disagree with the idea that the only effective type of lifting is "heavy" lifting.
I should add the caveat that I *can't* lift heavy due to exertion induced migraines, but I can train with progressive overload by adding reps and sets to moderate weights and still get results.
Furthermore, the larger point is that not everyone has goals that can only be met by lifting heavy. Many people have goals that can be met with other sorts of resistance training.
I do have to say that I think the advice to lift heavy has cooled down a bit from where it used to be. I just wish there were more balanced advice offered in general to give people who don't want to or can't lift heavy other options. Or at least that such advice was given more often. I have to say I have seen it given more often than it used to be.
There's a lot of dogma and persistent broscience surrounding lifting. "Heavy is better than light", "free weights are better than machines", "the Smith machine is evil and will snap your *kitten* up", "compound exercises are the best", "you have to do squats", etc..
When you spend some time reading research and the evidence-based findings of true fitness professionals, you learn that the answers are a lot more nuanced and contextual (and a lot less black and white) than opinions such as the above.
Ha. I was just going to say that I disagree with the broad statement that free weights are better than machines. Completely dependent on the person and the goals. My mom is going to go to the gym by herself and I know that she won't use free weights by herself. She will use machines. Resistance exercise is important so I'd rather her use machines than nothing.
"Abs are made in the kitchen." No, they're not. Abs are muscles. Muscles are built via resistance work.
"Toned/toning isn't a real thing." Sure it is. It's a term that has been used for decades and considering the context in which it is generally used, it's fairly easy to figure out its meaning. If you're still confused, ask the poster to post an example of what they're talking about.19
This discussion has been closed.
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